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[Albino_Yeti]

I don't know, on one side yes I agree with you, on the other, fire breathing dragons, man.

But being more serious the only edge GoT has is that the battles are more even and people are divided into who to root for, LoTR is very simple in it's good vs evil, but in all other aspects LoTR wins.

Yea, I was definitely rooting for both sides in this battle lol. My boy Bronn had to survive, but I also wanted Dany to win so Cersei would notch up a loss.

I mean, even in Lord of the Rings, Helm's Deep is generally much better filmed than Pelennor Fields - the film does a good job of laying out the geography of the place and why it matters, such that the viewer can always tell what's happening and why. Pelennor Fields was suitably epic but really just consisted of each side having tide-turning reinforcements show up without nearly as much communication of strategy to the viewer.

That's a valid point. Helms Deep benefited from being a much smaller scale battle, so you could more easily get your bearings.

There's just something about seeing thousands upon thousands of Rohirrim charging into what they think is certain death, and then doing it again once the Haradrim show up

 

[Randdalf]

Yeah Helm's Deep is still my benchmark. That shot of all the ladders going up, combined with the Uruk-hai march theme, oh boy.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

I think that last episode deserves its own thread in itself.

A title something vague, like "best single episode of a TV series"

Honestly, I cannot think of anything better but I've been invested in the show and the books so I have bias… Even still, the spectacle was so amazing and technically well done, even a non-viewer should be able to appreciate it. This rivals the "not penny's boat", but its so much better.

Someone make the thread, I won't, I don't have the pull and am probably ignored (seems like it)

People who haven't invested themselves in GoT yet are in for a treat of binge watching, I wish I could watch the show from beginning to end within a few weeks rather than like 6 years.

Better than Ozymandias? Get out.

 

[VindicatorZ]

I'd be supportive of combining the threads.

Little reason to have parallel communities given where we stand with the books & show.

Very much feel that even discussion of the books has been exhausted in the six years following ADWD.

No, I don't think we should combine threads. I'm not a book reader but I've read all about the books. There's things that are still not in the show that have been mentioned in the books and not in the show. And I'm not even talking about Young Griff or Lady Stoneheart, which while they won't be doing in the show, is still a huge spoiler. But I feel like there is a big end game for Euron. All the mystical things that are hinted at with him, the dragon horn, the weather control, faceless men, imprisoning warlocks, etc. These things haven't been shown in the show, but the show is doing better with Euron this season and I feel like at some point they will touch at least a little bit on the magical shit Euron is involved in.

Also all the Azor Ahai prophecies and all that kind of stuff that's brought up in the books but not really explained much in the show, those kinds of things could be end game spoilers down the road. It's like last season, alot of show viewers wou'nt have been aware of the R+L=J theories without book readers nudging them along.

 

[Psychoward]

it's also not even the best battle of the series?

stannis theme

that's not even talking about s3e9 or s6e10 either

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

Why is Dany being looked or talked about Luke a Mad Queen? I mean, she attacked an army on a battlefield, and not in some town or castle. She's giving people a choice to fight with her, or die. Someone mad wouldn't offer a choice.

I think this move at the end of the latest episode was her smartest yet. Sometimes being a clever tactician isn't needed to win a battle, but brute strength. And a dragon.

 

[Azzanadra]

it's also not even the best battle of the series?

stannis theme

that's not even talking about s3e9 or s6e10 either

Call me a purist but I still think "Baelor" is the best episode of the series, even with all the impressive battles. Just a really well-written episode, I was hanging onto every word.

 

[tmdorsey]

I'm no Dany stan, but I'm fed up of people calling her the Mad Queen. It makes no sense. And preview spoilers:

Spoiler

She's giving the Lannister army the exact same choice Aegon the Conqueror gave to the people he defeated.

Fake drama sounds about right for this season. Not using the dragons is just the stupidest, most idiotic shit. Show Tyrion is a moron.

And nevermind Tarly conveniently mentioning in passing that the gold is secure. So much about this season is really inelegant. The high point of this is definitely the cave paintings though.

There's nothing about Dany that makes her seem crazy or starting to go crazy. She's not burning people for pleasure or for no reason. It's war. The dragons are effectively a weapon. Her "marauding band of barbarians" is her army. I have no idea how that maker her insane.

Insisting Jon Snow to bend the knee is pretty dumb, but (preview spoilers)

Spoiler

the offer she gives to the conquered soldiers seems sensible to me. What else she gonna do? Put them in shackles? Keep them and feed them as POWs? Let them go scotch-free so that they can attack her again at some point in the future? This is a brutal, medieval world, and she needs soldiers. Using the might of her dragons to do it is the most effective way. And it's how Aegon conquered Westeros anyway.

Anyway, I'm not sure I can take someone seriously that's trying to paint the fucking Lannisters as the heroes.

I think this will be the first time I agree with you 100% on something. I just don't get all the opinions of her being the villain and people siding with the Lannisters. I can't get behind anybody anybody who fights for Cersei. If those Lannister soldiers cared about their lives they would retreated and gave themselves up the moment they saw a big ass dragon flying over the hill.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

Call me a purist but I still think "Baelor" is the best episode of the series, even with the impressive battles.

"The Lion and the Rose" and "The Watchers on the Wall" for sure.

"The Mountain and the Viper" if you ignore the beetles, and "The Children" if you ignore the teleporting fanservice that was HvB and Tyrion/Jamie hugging it out.

I still think Storm of Swords is the one of the best books I've ever read, personally, so I'm bias.

 

[Creamium]

I liked Jon & Theon's reunion. I hope things get better between them.

I do wonder how Theon's arc is going to end at this point. I can see him sacrificing himself for the greater good, maybe by taking a killing blow for Jon or any of the big hitters. He's such a tragic character. Even after his escape he only evokes pity.

 

[Lonestar]

One thing I've been thinking about this episode, was music. GoT has plenty of themes built up, but the one used when Jon shows off the cave, is the same theme from "Maester/The Citadel". Trying to figure out the reasoning. Is it because it came from the knowledge Sam found, or is the theme not really for The Citadel, but a Dany/Jon theme?

 

[badcrumble]

I honestly still think Blackwater is the best episode of the series - staying 100% in King's Landing for an entire episode let it have a sense of focus that normally eludes the show.

 

[VindicatorZ]

I honestly still think Blackwater is the best episode of the series - staying 100% in King's Landing for an entire episode let it have a sense of focus that normally eludes the show.

Amazing episode. I hope we get one more episode like that, maybe the War for the Dawn.

 

[Fuzzy]

I do wonder how Theon's arc is going to end at this point. I can see him sacrificing himself for the greater good, maybe by taking a killing blow for Jon or any of the big hitters. He's such a tragic character. Even after his escape he only evokes pity.

I'd rather have him die of old age and having to live with the shitty things he's done for the rest of his life. No redemption or peace.

 

[BlackSalad]

....

I didn't phrase anything as I wanted, heat of the moment etc etc

The last episode with noteworthily because of its production and the technical standpoint. From the series? yes, there are more pulling episodes. Are there more moving and meaningful episodes in other series? yes, of course, this doesn't even come close to the fly episode of BB, among many others.

My main point was that this episode, and snips from it, could pull almost anyone into the GoT discussion. If you were to ever convince someone to watch GoT, 30 seconds of the last episode would do it. Then they'd be blown away from what happens throughout.

I am crazy apparently.

 

[badcrumble]

Amazing episode. I hope we get one more episode like that, maybe the War for the Dawn.

The battle segments weren't necessarily the best battle segments we've had in the show (in fact they certainly weren't), but the character work with Cersei/Sansa/Joffrey/Tyrion/The Hound/Bronn/Stannis/Davos is all excellent and it's great to have all of the characters reacting to the same events in real time. I think it successfully elevates the episode really well because it does a better job of showing different *personal* experiences of war even if the battle itself isn't as good as BotB/Hardhome.

 

[Gigglepoo]

the preston jacobs video does bring up some interesting points about the logic jaime and tyrion used to separately come to the same conclusion, which is also a pretty common thread in the series: if someone flat out thinks something, they are usually wrong.

Yay! Someone else watched Preston Jacobs! He has excellent videos. It often feels like he put more thought in these scenarios than even GRRM.

 

[The Artisan]

I do wonder how Theon's arc is going to end at this point. I can see him sacrificing himself for the greater good, maybe by taking a killing blow for Jon or any of the big hitters. He's such a tragic character. Even after his escape he only evokes pity.

he has been willing to die for the greater good before, so he will definitely be up for it again. his PTSD is a pretty big obstacle though. he's gotta talk to someone about all the fucked up shit that's happened to him...maybe Jon himself?

Jon is the one who beat the shit outta Ramsay and orchestrated his own execution as a taste of his own medicine. Jon probably doesn't know what Ramsay's done to him

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I think this will be the first time I agree with you 100% on something. I just don't get all the opinions of her being the villain and people siding with the Lannisters. I can't get behind anybody anybody who fights for Cersei. If those Lannister soldiers cared about their lives they would retreated and gave themselves up the moment they saw a big ass dragon flying over the hill.

Yup, I agree with both of you. It's war. She won a battle without killing innocents or destroying castles. If anything, she's continuing to show compassion, even to an enemy that was killing her soldiers. Mad Queen talk seems silly to me.

 

[Camp Freddie]

Rewatching the final scene, why doesn't Jaime throw the spear at Dany? He does that, Dany's dead, war over.

Dat plot armor.

He's got one hand, it's his off hand and he's riding a horse. It's unlikely he'd be able to hit her.
Not sure how that river suddenly got so deep though.

I wondered why Dany attacked the wagon train instead of the soldiers. It would make sense if it was a hit and run attack, but Dany's army beat the Lannisters easily. They even had fuckloads of cavalry that would stop the wagons from escaping.
Why destroy the spoils of war?

I was just thinking "Blue Valkyrie shot the food".

I wonder if we'll see Dorne again. They just chillin' with their huge army until everyone else has killed each other? I guess Doran will win a posthumous victory.

I also wonder how the books will deal with the higher tempo of events. Capturing dragonstone, highgarden and casterly rock is a couple of books by itself at Martin's usual pace. We had two books just about capturing a couple of unimportant slave cities and dealing with the aftermath of King Rob's defeat. Martin doesn't have D&D's teleporters to speed things up.

 

[The Artisan]

Yup, I agree with both of you. It's war. She won a battle without killing innocents or destroying castles. If anything, she's continuing to show compassion, even to an enemy that was killing her soldiers. Mad Queen talk seems silly to me.

after having talked to Jon, she continued to show compassion. She needs him.

 

[LordKasual]

Do they have an army?

They don't need an army. And they don't need to conquer anyone.

They control the flow of money. Anyone who needs to wage a large scale war will come in contact with the Iron Bank in some way, shape, or form at one point or another. At which point they pick a side, and profit.

They're participating without participating, and reaping the benefits either way.

 

[The Artisan]

Rewatching the final scene, why doesn't Jaime throw the spear at Dany? He does that, Dany's dead, war over.

Dat plot armor.

There's no way that the war would be over. With Dany dead and Jon not knowing how to bond with the dragons, there's nothing that would hold them back from flying straight to King's Landing and roasting Cersei alive.

I do however, think that Dany was trying not to hurt Jaime all throughout that battle, perhaps out of a request from Tyrion.

 

[StopMakingSense]

They should try avoid having battles next to sudden endless abysses.

 

[LordKasual]

Cersei won't even see this as an L.

nearly the entire Lannister army just got decimated out of nowhere tho??

That was an army big enough to take High Garden. And the casualties taken by the Dothraki were probably next to nothing, thanks to Drogon.

 

[H.Cornerstone]

to me Hardhome is still the best episode. I think the fact that it was such a lone bright spot in an otherwise meh season helps elevate it.

 

[The Artisan]

nearly the entire Lannister army just got decimated out of nowhere tho??

at the end of the battle you could see a whole bunch of them running away

 

[Human Trashcan]

I do wonder how Theon's arc is going to end at this point. I can see him sacrificing himself for the greater good, maybe by taking a killing blow for Jon or any of the big hitters. He's such a tragic character. Even after his escape he only evokes pity.

I think/hope he survives the series and has no large redemption arc culminating with a heroic sacrifice or anything like that. I think the power of Theon's story is to show that some traumas just breaks some people, permanently, and there isn't always a recovery from that. I don't quite find him a tragic character, per se, because what he did to Winterfell and those kids was inexcusable. His downfall was entirely due to his own hubris and sense of entitlement. A tragic character has to have some kind of greatness, that greatness also being the flaw that brings them down. There was never really anything great about Theon. At best he would've betrayed Robb and been another murderous thug in a world full of them.

But the show being the show, I think they will kill him off at some point. Just a gut feeling.

 

[Lord of Castamere]

That's what you get when you try to beat the boss before leveling up. Jamie got cocky. Hopefully, he's able to reclaim his souls, or else he'll have to farm the Highgarden level before reattempting.

 

[LordKasual]

at the end of the battle you could see a whole bunch of them running away

That's definitely still a massive L for morale

Some Lannisers are probably going to "nope" right the fuck out of the next encounter with Dany

Others are going to have stories about what happened when a single dragon fucked their mouth

That's not even including the Dothraki

 

[jfkgoblue]

He's got one hand, it's his off hand and he's riding a horse. It's unlikely he'd be able to hit her.
Not sure how that river suddenly got so deep though.

I wondered why Dany attacked the wagon train instead of the soldiers. It would make sense if it was a hit and run attack, but Dany's army beat the Lannisters easily. They even had fuckloads of cavalry that would stop the wagons from escaping.
Why destroy the spoils of war?

I was just thinking "Blue Valkyrie shot the food".

I wonder if we'll see Dorne again. They just chillin' with their huge army until everyone else has killed each other? I guess Doran will win a posthumous victory.

I also wonder how the books will deal with the higher tempo of events. Capturing dragonstone, highgarden and casterly rock is a couple of books by itself at Martin's usual pace. We had two books just about capturing a couple of unimportant slave cities and dealing with the aftermath of King Rob's defeat. Martin doesn't have D&D's teleporters to speed things up.

It's been 3 years, he should have learned to use it effectively.

 

[Albino_Yeti]

nearly the entire Lannister army just got decimated out of nowhere tho??

That was an army big enough to take High Garden. And the casualties taken by the Dothraki were probably next to nothing, thanks to Drogon.

That wasn't the entire Lannister army though. Before the battle started, Tarly said something about how if they got ambushed the main force would never have time to reinforce them. So this was just a small part of the whole army.

 

[Spooky Scary Skeleton]

nearly the entire Lannister army just got decimated out of nowhere tho??

What entire army? Tarly specifically said they were the "tail" of the army. We can assume that half of Lannister army escorted gold to Kings Landing and the rest stayed to gather food.

 

[kc44135]

Hey guys, I realize this thread is primarily for GOT book fans who like to hatewatch the show, but I wanted to ask... are the books worth reading as a show fan? It's my favorite series ever (yes, I like it more than The Wire and Breaking Bad), and I'd love to experience more of it in another form, but... are there a lot of differences between the show and the books? Do a lot of things happen differently? I know there's a stone lady or something, but anything beyond that? Would it be different enough that it wouldn't feel like I was "going through the motions", so to speak?

 

[TheCowboyPoet]

When did this thread become "non-book readers asking book readers questions"?
And no, not every book reader hate watches.

 

[Iksenpets]

Rewatching the final scene, why doesn't Jaime throw the spear at Dany? He does that, Dany's dead, war over.

Dat plot armor.

Assuming he can throw well with his off hand (I imagine most of his retraining has focused on handling a sword and holding a lance steady, less on throwing), he still probably thought he had the charge lined up. Better to complete the charge where you have a 90% chance of lancing her through, or trampling her if you miss, than to go with a throw that has a significantly greater chance of missing.

Hey guys, I realize this thread is primarily for GOT book fans who like to hatewatch the show, but I wanted to ask... are the books worth reading as a show fan? It's my favorite series ever (yes, I like it more than The Wire and Breaking Bad), and I'd love to experience more of it in another form, but... are there a lot of differences between the show and the books? Do a lot of things happen differently? I know there's a stone lady or something, but anything beyond that? Would it be different enough that it wouldn't feel like I was "going through the motions", so to speak?

Book 1 will mostly feel like going through the motions, other than a handful of scenes, but after that it will be different enough to feel fresh. By the time you hit books 4 and 5, there are probably more differences than similarities. The show's adaptation of those is a very loose sort of remixing of elements.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Hey guys, I realize this thread is primarily for GOT book fans who like to hatewatch the show, but I wanted to ask... are the books worth reading as a show fan? It's my favorite series ever (yes, I like it more than The Wire and Breaking Bad), and I'd love to experience more of it in another form, but... are there a lot of differences between the show and the books? Do a lot of things happen differently? I know there's a stone lady or something, but anything beyond that? Would it be different enough that it wouldn't feel like I was "going through the motions", so to speak?

Plenty of book readers enjoy the show, we just complain loudest, lol.

 

[Creamium]

Hey guys, I realize this thread is primarily for GOT book fans who like to hatewatch the show, but I wanted to ask... are the books worth reading as a show fan? It's my favorite series ever (yes, I like it more than The Wire and Breaking Bad), and I'd love to experience more of it in another form, but... are there a lot of differences between the show and the books? Do a lot of things happen differently? I know there's a stone lady or something, but anything beyond that? Would it be different enough that it wouldn't feel like I was "going through the motions", so to speak?

In your situation I couldn't recommend the books more. You wouldn't be going through the motions because it'll feel like the best kind of extended edition. Then when you get to books 4 and 5, you'll see how different they are from the show. If this is already your favorite tv show, then you're going to get a kick out of the books. There are entire storylines not featured in the show.

Oh and you'll get why readers are so pissed about Dorne

 

[Iksenpets]

I wonder if we'll see Dorne again. They just chillin' with their huge army until everyone else has killed each other? I guess Doran will win a posthumous victory.

I've heard some people speculate that the sea battle happened after Yara and Ellaria picked up the Dornish army, so they all drowned in sinking ships. I'm going with that theory for now just since it's the only way to make sense of Dorne being knocked out of the war. I imagine we won't hear from them again until the very end when it's mentioned the Oberyn's fourth daughter now rules Dorne in the name of whatever monarch wins the war (or independently, if the country falls apart altogether).

 

[kc44135]

When did this thread become "non-book readers asking book readers questions"?
And no, not every book reader hate watches.

Plenty of book readers enjoy the show, we just complain loudest, lol.

Fair enough, lol.

Assuming he can throw well with his off hand (I imagine most of his retraining has focused on handling a sword and holding a lance steady, less on throwing), he still probably thought he had the charge lined up. Better to complete the charge where you have a 90% chance of lancing her through, or trampling her if you miss, than to go with a throw that has a significantly greater chance of missing.



Book 1 will mostly feel like going through the motions, other than a handful of scenes, but after that it will be different enough to feel fresh. By the time you hit books 4 and 5, there are probably more differences than similarities. The show's adaptation of those is a very loose sort of remixing of elements.

In your situation I couldn't recommend the books more. You wouldn't be going through the motions because it'll feel like the best kind of extended edition. Then when you get to books 4 and 5, you'll see how different they are from the show. If this is already your favorite tv show, then you're going to get a kick out of the books. There are entire storylines not featured in the show.

Oh and you'll get why readers are so pissed about Dorne

Hmm, this sounds very interesting. I knew there were some differences, but not to the extent you guys are describing. Yeah, I think I'll pull the trigger on the books after all. Thx, guys!

 

[Hazmat]

I've heard some people speculate that the sea battle happened after Yara and Ellaria picked up the Dornish army, so they all drowned in sinking ships. I'm going with that theory for now just since it's the only way to make sense of Dorne being knocked out of the war. I imagine we won't hear from them again until the very end when it's mentioned the Oberyn's fourth daughter now rules Dorne in the name of whatever monarch wins the war (or independently, if the country falls apart altogether).

When Ellaria and Yara are drinking just before the fight, Ellaria complains about the poor quality of the wine or ale and says that she'll give Yara good wine when they arrive in Dorne. They never made it there.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

How likely is it Westeros goes back to independent kingdoms?

 

[tmdorsey]

Rewatching the final scene, why doesn't Jaime throw the spear at Dany? He does that, Dany's dead, war over.

Dat plot armor.

Not that Jamie would have known this or maybe he should have, but wouldn't Drogon's fire just burn the spear to nothing before it hit Dany?

 

[WhereAreMahDragonz]

So Jon and Dany are gonna fuck in that cave, right?

A Ygritte throwback

 

[badcrumble]

I wonder if we'll see Dorne again. They just chillin' with their huge army until everyone else has killed each other? I guess Doran will win a posthumous victory.

The show's basically treating it as though Dorne has been wiped off the map and I expect that's roughly how it'll play out. If there aren't named characters in Dorne anymore it might as well not exist.

I'm okay with this for basic expediency's sake but it's not the best writing. I think everything surrounding Euron is going to be looked back on as the worst part of this season.

 

[Fuzzy]

I do however, think that Dany was trying not to hurt Jaime all throughout that battle, perhaps out of a request from Tyrion.

Tyrion: "Please don't hurt my brother. You know, the one you accused me of purposefully helping by screwing up your plans to take the throne."
Dany: "Sure no problem, I won't hurt the man who stabbed my father in the back."

Yeah, that makes sense.

 

[carlsojo]

Seeing all those people burned alive, including those guys turn to ashes before his eyes, that had to hit Jaime hard. It's no wonder he charged for Daenerys when he could. He probably really does see her as a second Aerys

Spoiler

ironically, since Cersei is crazy as fuck.

 

[badcrumble]

Seeing all those people burned alive, including those guys turn to ashes before his eyes, that had to hit Jaime hard. It's no wonder he charged for Daenerys when he could. He probably really does see her as a second Aerys

Spoiler

ironically, since Cersei is crazy as fuck.

I think they're aiming to pair the arc where Jaime is slowly realizing that Cersei is crazy with an arc that shows him realizing that Daenarys isn't.

 

[mantidor]

So Jon and Dany are gonna fuck in that cave, right?

A Ygritte throwback

Dany asks him to kneel and he didn't get the clue

 

[Iksenpets]

When Ellaria and Yara are drinking just before the fight, Ellaria complains about the poor quality of the wine or ale and says that she'll give Yara good wine when they arrive in Dorne. They never made it there.

Ah crap, you're right. The illusion is ruined. That army is 100% still just sitting there doing nothing.

Maybe season 8 will involve Sand Snake #4 (who we promise is much better than the last three) showing up with the Dornish army everyone forgot about, and this is actually a story about how Cersei's focus on revenge caused her to treat the personal victory of Ellaria's capture as an actual strategic victory, leading to stupid mistakes.