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[D.Lo]

Anyone talking about this in here? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1845713947/the-component-video-box-for-classic-game-consoles

Seems odd, very interested to hear some thoughts.

Better than the specific SNES/Mega Drive cords. Also not called 'HD'

But still, expensive, half the price of a Framemeister and won't have good results on the vast majority of HDTVs.

And one of their tiers also includes a non 240p emulation Raspberry Pi box *vomits*

 

[NormalFish]

So I was wondering, what's the official "somethingGAF" name of this thread's community?

Personally I refer to it as "RetroRGB-GAF".

I just think of this thread as being a part of the greater "RetroGAF" umbrella.

Anyone talking about this in here? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1845713947/the-component-video-box-for-classic-game-consoles

Seems odd, very interested to hear some thoughts.

I'm happy to see these sorts of projects even if they're not for me. Good that more people can play the games on original hardware.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

That's a sync issue. Mess with your sync level until it doesn't do that anymore. The Genesis is sometimes tricky with sync levels. I think with me it usually works best around 21 or so?

Do you use SYNC set to auto or off? Is there any way to switch it on the fly or bring up the OSD while in-game?

 

[televator]

So I was wondering, what's the official "somethingGAF" name of this thread's community?

Personally I refer to it as "RetroRGB-GAF".

IDK, while the pursuit of RGB for many systems is the starting point for everyone here, I don't think it's the entirety of it. General picture quality and even audio-centric conversations spark up here often enough...

Spoiler

fair bit of it started by or egged on by me, I feel.

^_^;

But I guess RGB is the common denominator.

 

[Shadow Hog]

For those who are interested in comparisons of other scalers vs the XRGB Mini, Phonedork uploaded a nice quality video showing comparisons between the Mini and the popular "cheaper" HDMI scaler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e27bNOlh0gM

It's recorded at 720p, 60Hz, and even did a really clean job of capturing XRGB Mini scanlines (but it looks like he has them set very dark)

I hate to be the "actually..." guy here, but reread the description.

This was originally just going to be a short video of the XRGB-Mini VS the cheaper HDMI scaler using "Outrun" on the Sega Saturn which runs at 60 Fps in smooth mode. This video is recorded at 60 FPS. This video shows the issues with cheaper scalers such as motion blur. But although the XRGB -Mini is the definitive scaler.... It is way too expensive and I am finding it hard to justify the price! I also attempt to show scanlines on the XRGB. A task that I have never seen anybody else pull off! There was no way to accurately record them through any type of video recorder. So I have simulated how scanlines look on the XRGB Mini through my video editing and filter that I created. Watch in theater mode if on a computer screen to see them correctly. I normally record my normal videos at 30 FPS because its much easier to deal with then 60 FPS. But this video needed to be at 60 FPS. Unfortunately youtube did not convert this to 60 FPS. I guess I don't have that option :-(

He didn't actually record scanlines, he seems to think that's impossible and did it all in post. Might explain why the image desaturates so much when they appear (and why they seem to apply to the black bars on the sides as well, something that doesn't happen on the actual XRGB-Mini AFAIK).

Also, call me weird, but I think the color settings he has for the "shitscaler" are more vivid. Obviously that's something the XRGB-Mini could have too, with finetuning, but still...

 

[NormalFish]

I hate to be the "actually..." guy here, but reread the description.

He didn't actually record scanlines, he seems to think that's impossible and did it all in post. Might explain why the image desaturates so much when they appear (and why they seem to apply to the black bars on the sides as well, something that doesn't happen on the actual XRGB-Mini AFAIK).

Also, call me weird, but I think the color settings he has for the "shitscaler" are more vivid. Obviously that's something the XRGB-Mini could have too, with finetuning, but still...

color settings on the shitty scaler had more depth. I think that's his settings though, as I certainly do not have that issue.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

Are television incompatibilities with the Framemeister common? Even after trying every single tic of sync adjustment, I still get the results displayed in the video of previous post ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QN_3zl4ILA )

I'm unsure at this point if it's my cable (though, I doubt it) and am thinking it is likely an incompatibility with my television. It does seem like something a cable would do, though. Where can I order another one of these cables for the Genesis, if so?

I don't see any processing options in my television menus, so it's a shame if I just dished out all this money on the Framemeister and can't even use it. Argh.

Edit: Just tried using my PS2 over composite in the Framemeister and..I'm able to render 1080p without any skipping (from the PS2's 480i composite signal). This doesn't rule out that it's an incompatibility with my television for 240i sources, though, does it?

 

[antibolo]

Anyone talking about this in here? https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1845713947/the-component-video-box-for-classic-game-consoles

Seems odd, very interested to hear some thoughts.

You're better off buying a generic RGB to component converter box, it will be compatible with anything you can find a SCART cable for.

And you should keep in mind that not all modern TVs support a 240p component signal (a generic box will have the same limitation, nothing you can do about that short of going with a full upscaler).

 

[televator]

So my BC 60GB PS3 is determined to die, despite all my effort to keep it alive. I even had it Re-balled! So now I can't play PS2 via clean HDMI output.

The idea that I have to go back to analog on a PS2...

Damn you '07-'08 Sony! Damn you and your faulty hardware!

 

[D.Lo]

Are television incompatibilities with the Framemeister common? Even after trying every single tic of sync adjustment, I still get the results displayed in the video of previous post ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QN_3zl4ILA )

I'm unsure at this point if it's my cable (though, I doubt it) and am thinking it is likely an incompatibility with my television. It does seem like something a cable would do, though. Where can I order another one of these cables for the Genesis, if so?

I don't see any processing options in my television menus, so it's a shame if I just dished out all this money on the Framemeister and can't even use it. Argh.

Edit: Just tried using my PS2 over composite in the Framemeister and..I'm able to render 1080p without any skipping (from the PS2's 480i composite signal). This doesn't rule out that it's an incompatibility with my television for 240i sources, though, does it?

I can't see any reason why the Framemeister could possibly be incompatible with an HDMI standards-compliant screen of any sort.

Unless your unit is faulty, is almost certainly your source, either the cables or consoles.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

I can't see any reason why the Framemeister could possibly be incompatible with an HDMI standards-compliant screen of any sort.

Unless your unit is faulty, is almost certainly your source, either the cables or consoles.

This is where I'm confused. Seller said cable and console were tested (sold together), dunno if unit is faulty because I have no other RGB devices. One of the xrgb fan wikis say there ARE tv incompatibilities on certain tellys (includings Panasonic) with older systems, but doesn't elaborate in what this means..

I guess first troubleshooting step would be try on another tv, then order new cables or try another Genesis.

 

[D.Lo]

This is where I'm confused. Seller said cable and console were tested (sold together), dunno if unit is faulty because I have no other RGB devices. One of the xrgb fan wikis say there ARE tv incompatibilities on certain tellys (includings Panasonic) with older systems, but doesn't elaborate in what this means..

I guess first troubleshooting step would be try on another tv, then order new cables or try another Genesis.

Only for systems with weird refresh rates, maybe Neo Geo.

Many Sega consoles (Mark III/Master System/ Mega Drive) do have sync issues with it however, on ALL TVs. It is your cable, you need a sync boost cable.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

This cable is from retro gaming cables uk, but I dunno if it's signal boost internally wired - site doesn't specify, but does say it's for xrgb..so.

Just bought one from that retro console accessories ebayer specifically stating signal boost, gonna see what happens. Thanks.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I have the frameister to Euroscart adaptor cable from that site. It works fine for my NES if that helps (I did get the sync-stripper version though)

 

[D.Lo]

Just bought one from that retro console accessories ebayer specifically stating signal boost, gonna see what happens. Thanks.

SYNC boost I hope.

 

[Mercutio]

I can't see any reason why the Framemeister could possibly be incompatible with an HDMI standards-compliant screen of any sort.

Unless your unit is faulty, is almost certainly your source, either the cables or consoles.

I was the seller, and I used both the Genesis and Cable with my xrgb mini without issue. I'm not totally sure what is going on... The console works over rf so I don't think it's the system. And the cable should be totally fine.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

Just in case, try a different HDMI cable. I have a dollar store cable that gave me weirdness but only when used on my PS3.

 

[D.Lo]

I was the seller, and I used both the Genesis and Cable with my xrgb mini without issue. I'm not totally sure what is going on... The console works over rf so I don't think it's the system. And the cable should be totally fine.

Console working over RF doesn't prove anything, the sync line to the DIN could be damaged.

RhyDin it could be the FM is faulty. The video looks like a frequency issue from the console though.

If it PAL or something? Check the TV and FM are set to 60Hz.

 

[Madao]

i think that connecting the FM to a monitor to see if it displays fine there should help weed out which part of the setup is faulty.

hopefully it's just the cables. i once had a broken HDMI cable and i thought my BD player was dying.

 

[D.Lo]

hopefully it's just the cables. i once had a broken HDMI cable and i thought my BD player was dying.

Yep, I had one worse - a dying HDMI port on my beloved Panasonic Plasma.

HDMI, such a bad plug, if oriented horizontally and at 90 degrees (like 90% of them on the back of TVs) with such a thick cable and rigid plug head it of course stresses the slot over time.

 

[dark10x]

Are television incompatibilities with the Framemeister common? Even after trying every single tic of sync adjustment, I still get the results displayed in the video of previous post ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QN_3zl4ILA )

I'm unsure at this point if it's my cable (though, I doubt it) and am thinking it is likely an incompatibility with my television. It does seem like something a cable would do, though. Where can I order another one of these cables for the Genesis, if so?

I don't see any processing options in my television menus, so it's a shame if I just dished out all this money on the Framemeister and can't even use it. Argh.

Edit: Just tried using my PS2 over composite in the Framemeister and..I'm able to render 1080p without any skipping (from the PS2's 480i composite signal). This doesn't rule out that it's an incompatibility with my television for 240i sources, though, does it?

First thing to check is the XRGB to Euro SCART converter. From my experience and that of a friend, the adapter with a SYNC STRIPPER circuit DOES NOT WORK properly with many consoles. We ran into so many problems with this adapter particularly with modded consoles (such as an NES RGB or a NeoGeo with RGB output) but also regular systems. If you're using this adapter, I'd recommending buying one without the sync stripper. This is what I'm using now. Systems that worked fine on the adapter without sync stripping circuitry would display anomalies (or fail to work at all) when using the one WITH the circuit.

I suspect the XRGB unit is fine as the PS2 over composite is functioning. The problem seems to be related to RGB which is why I'm thinking it's the adapter you're using. Obvious you wouldn't be using the Japanese 21pin adapter included with the XRGB since I don't even think that would work but I'm curious to know which adapter you ARE using.

Some systems can also prove difficult even with a good adapter. Out of seven or eight RGB cables for the SNES that I've used, only three of them work. The official Nintendo GC RGB cable works perfectly but requires a sync setting higher than 22. Another one works fine with any setting but produces awful buzzing due to poor shielding. The last one that worked displayed the wrong colors on a US SNES but worked perfectly on a JP Super Famicom. The other five gave no picture at all.

The Genesis hasn't given me too many issues, thankfully, but different cables definitely give different results. The best one I've found was for a Model 1 Genesis where the audio is split out and can be plugged into the front headphone jack and then run into the SCART header (might have been Retro Gaming Cables UK). I will also say that I HAVE had a Genesis cable completely fail on me for no reason. Worked great for months and then, one day, it started just cutting out on me all the time. Never figured out what went wrong since all of the solder joints appear fine and none of the internal connections appeared loose.

So, don't be discouraged. Your XRGB is probably just fine - you just need to figure out which piece of the puzzle is giving you an issue.

 

[BONKERS]

You're better off buying a generic RGB to component converter box, it will be compatible with anything you can find a SCART cable for.

And you should keep in mind that not all modern TVs support a 240p component signal (a generic box will have the same limitation, nothing you can do about that short of going with a full upscaler).

Yeah, but clone RGB to YPbPr converters are known to have a number of problems like running hot, having big color balance issues off the bat(The top review on the Amazon page says just as much too),varying quality on a per unit basis and some other stuff.. (A genuine CSY 2100 is 90$)
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=50432
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=52698
Of course your experience may vary, cuz. Clones.

Plus you also have to factor in the SCART cables too, which is a headache within itself if you are having poor quality video from an issue with a cable or a bad cable. Or a cable that is made with a different sync method than what you need.

Also getting audio without modding the cable or getting an already modded cable that hopefully doesn't have interference.

Or modding the transcoder to add audio out. And then hope your scart cable doesn't have any interference along the way.
Don't forget to buy Euro-Scart cables either ha.

Where as this component box bypasses all of that entirely.

Better than the specific SNES/Mega Drive cords. Also not called 'HD'

But still, expensive, half the price of a Framemeister and won't have good results on the vast majority of HDTVs.

And one of their tiers also includes a non 240p emulation Raspberry Pi box *vomits*

Well this is actually pretty interesting! Especially the TG16 part. Doesn't that normally need a mod for RGB?

This definitely appeals to me more than those other poorly named ones.

However, 240p native support is still iffy on TVs unless they can linedouble everything to 480p. (Which a lot of people seem to use with a XRGB anyway).


Great for CRTs

So my BC 60GB PS3 is determined to die, despite all my effort to keep it alive. I even had it Re-balled! So now I can't play PS2 via clean HDMI output.

The idea that I have to go back to analog on a PS2...

Damn you '07-'08 Sony! Damn you and your faulty hardware!

I paid a ton of money to get my half BC/80GB model reballed and it started failing again pretty soon after. Which was disappointing.

 

[Peltz]

Sorry for your loss. Those units are not built to last. Edit: I was specifically referring to early-gen PS3 hardware.

 

[Khaz]

Plus you also have to factor in the SCART cables too, which is a headache within itself if you are having poor quality video from an issue with a cable or a bad cable. Or a cable that is made with a different sync method than what you need.

Also getting audio without modding the cable or getting an already modded cable that hopefully doesn't have interference.

Or modding the transcoder to add audio out. And then hope your scart cable doesn't have any interference along the way.
Don't forget to buy Euro-Scart cables either ha.

Where as this component box bypasses all of that entirely.

Not true.

Their proprietary cable is long enough to get interferences in the audio, and it sure doesn't look like it's properly shielded.

Getting Audio out of Scart is as simple as buying a passthrough adapter, which doesn't add interferences.

If you have quality issues with a bad Scart cable, you change the cable and/or the seller/manufacturer. If you have a problem with their cable, you don't because they are the sole providers of their own proprietary cable. The only difference between their cable and a Scart cable is the shape of the plug.

Their box was clearly initially designed as a way to output Component out of a PC-Engine extension port, much like there are boxes to output RGB and Composite out of it. The side socket for other consoles is an afterthought to gather more sales. In essence, it doesn't do anything more than any other transcoder already out. I'm sure it was given a lot of thought and output good component, but it's not worth $125.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

I paid a ton of money to get my half BC/80GB model reballed and it started failing again pretty soon after. Which was disappointing.

I have a 60GB PS3 I barely use, I'm not all too worried about it dying. I wonder if I should grab up a PS3 slim when I see it since I'm fine with my PS2 on my PVM. I'm curious, what is the "reballing" procedure for PS3?

 

[Khaz]

I have a 60GB PS3 I barely use, I'm not all too worried about it dying. I wonder if I should grab up a PS3 slim when I see it since I'm fine with my PS2 on my PVM. I'm curious, what is the "reballing" procedure for PS3?

Putting it in an oven to redo all the solder points at once.

Spoiler

Don't do it at home

 

[Peltz]

Putting it in an oven to redo all the solder points at once.

Spoiler

Don't do it at home

That sounds as asinine as the Xbox 360 towel trick.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Putting it in an oven to redo all the solder points at once.

Spoiler

Don't do it at home

._.

Crazy!

I wonder if 60GB BC consoles have any additional value like they did back in the day. I haven't looked back since I got a PS2 hooked up to the PVM, maybe I should cash this thing out while it's still working.

 

[Charles Brandon]

I dunno, wouldn't people be wary of the failure rate, despite the BC.

 

[Peltz]

._.

Crazy!

I wonder if 60GB BC consoles have any additional value like they did back in the day. I haven't looked back since I got a PS2 hooked up to the PVM, maybe I should cash this thing out while it's still working.

Not unless it's factory sealed. They go for $150 or so. I'd rather drop $170 on a brand new PS2 slim if given the choice, knowing what we do about early gen PS3 systems.

 

[psylah]

I found the world's tiniest Trinitron at a yard sale this weekend. It's 13", 4:3, flat screen and is perfect for the space I have to work with. It even has component input.

The model is KV-13FS100 if anyone cares.

 

[Peltz]

I found the world's tiniest Trinitron at a yard sale this weekend. It's 13", 4:3, flat screen and is perfect for the space I have to work with. It even has component input.

The model is KV-13FS100 if anyone cares.

We care. Photos of it playing some games would be cool if it's not too much trouble.

Congrats on your pickup. Sounds like a gem.

 

[Mercutio]

Console working over RF doesn't prove anything, the sync line to the DIN could be damaged.

RhyDin it could be the FM is faulty. The video looks like a frequency issue from the console though.

If it PAL or something? Check the TV and FM are set to 60Hz.

Oh, true, he might be running the FM in one of the 50Hz modes. That'd be the next thing to try.

 

[Friend of Sonic]

Not unless it's factory sealed. They go for $150 or so. I'd rather drop $170 on a brand new PS2 slim if given the choice, knowing what we do about early gen PS3 systems.

Makes sense.

 

[psylah]

We care. Photos of it playing some games would be cool if it's not too much trouble.

Congrats on your pickup. Sounds like a gem.

I've got the time, I'll do it and post it by tomorrow.

The only old system I have that can output component is my PS2, though.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I've got the time, I'll do it and post it by tomorrow.

The only old system I have that can output component is my PS2, though.

Most PS2 games are 480i and up, but you can try PS1 games on it for an idea of what 240p will look like.

 

[antibolo]

I found the world's tiniest Trinitron at a yard sale this weekend. It's 13", 4:3, flat screen and is perfect for the space I have to work with. It even has component input.

The model is KV-13FS100 if anyone cares.

I think there a 9 inch PVMs out there.

 

[Peltz]

I think there a 9 inch PVMs out there.

There are 8" ones as well. But his set is a consumer-grade Trinitron.

 

[Khaz]

That sounds as asinine as the Xbox 360 towel trick.

Yeah, it's not literally an oven, but the idea is to reflow everything in a controlled environment. Professional tools and trained hand only, obviously not your kitchen oven and especially not the entire console.

 

[antibolo]

Speaking of dead 60GB PS3s, I have one clogging up one of my shelves. I should try to sell it to whoever is willing to fix it but my PSN account is still on it which worries me a bit. I can change my password but it still has some of my account's info on it, and since I can't boot it I can't do a factory reset.

Also when it died there was still a disc in it, so I had to disassemble the optical drive to get it out, and I'm not 100% sure I reassembled it correctly lol.

 

[baphomet]

Yeah, it's not literally an oven, but the idea is to reflow everything in a controlled environment. Professional tools and trained hand only, obviously not your kitchen oven and especially not the entire console.

That's reflowing, not reballing. Reballing will actually fix things, where as reflowing is just a band aid.

 

[sixteen-bit]

There are 8" ones as well. But his set is a consumer-grade Trinitron.

Sony KV-4000 is the smallest consumer Trinitron IIRC

3.7 inches

 

[psylah]

Sony KV-4000 is the smallest consumer Trinitron IIRC

3.7 inches

That's adorable.

 

[NormalFish]

Sony KV-4000 is the smallest consumer Trinitron IIRC

3.7 inches

Take it on the commute rofl

 

[televator]

I paid a ton of money to get my half BC/80GB model reballed and it started failing again pretty soon after. Which was disappointing.

You mind telling me where you had yours done? I had mine done locally in Phoenix. A business called PC Savants.

Funny thing is that if I play a PS3 game, I see tell tale graphics glitches. If I play PS2 games it looks perfectly fine. The only thing that eventually happens is that a red light will blink after the fan has been at maximum for a while. The RSX is definitely failing. I feel like, in the right crafty hands, this unit can still be saved and be made to last. Possibly, by entirely replacing the RSX and modding the cooling system.

 

[Peltz]

Sony KV-4000 is the smallest consumer Trinitron IIRC

3.7 inches

Nice stapler.

 

[RadarScope1]

Sony KV-4000 is the smallest consumer Trinitron IIRC

3.7 inches

Wow, I think would have to buy that if I ever came across one...

 

[antibolo]

Nice stapler.

Can't unsee.

 

[Anthony Soprano]

Obvious you wouldn't be using the Japanese 21pin adapter included with the XRGB since I don't even think that would work but I'm curious to know which adapter you ARE using.

I'm using a JP21 adapter from retrogamingcables.co.uk connected to the RGB->SCART thing that the Framemeister came with. Here's an imgur album of everything; http://imgur.com/a/bmndv - how do I know if this cable has a sync stripper built-in?

This is the cable I just purchased, hopefully to rectify the situation - but it will not arrive until next Thursday, http://www.ebay.com/itm/201260139834?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

This version of the raw sync cable includes a sync booster circuit, as we have had confirmed reports of weak sync output on these systems when used in conjunction with some scalers. The cable contains extra circuitry which boosts this signal so you can enjoy your jailbar free image instead of using a composite+RGB based cables which features jailbars in the image.

Is this the sync stripper cable you referred to?

Since seller tested Genesis and cable, I doubt it's the cable unless some connections inside bent out of place in transit. I'm thinking it could also be the RGB input on the FM - does anyone have any experience with returns? I really am not looking forward to shipping this thing back to Japan. I have also tried a different HDMI cable and tried it on my computer monitor - I have the same issue on my monitor, though I don't think a monitor is at all a good way to test this or troubleshoot?

Any way to trace the leads or investigate the internals of the cable myself while this thing is being shipped? I'm guessing I'd only need to find the trace/pin that conducts the sync?

 

[IrishNinja]

feelin better bout my 15" PVM now, haha

So my BC 60GB PS3 is determined to die, despite all my effort to keep it alive. I even had it Re-balled! So now I can't play PS2 via clean HDMI output.

The idea that I have to go back to analog on a PS2...

Damn you '07-'08 Sony! Damn you and your faulty hardware!

yeah, Last of Us killed mine years ago...welcome back to the club, brother!