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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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BONKERS

BONKERS

Member
televator said:
You mind telling me where you had yours done? I had mine done locally in Phoenix. A business called PC Savants.

Funny thing is that if I play a PS3 game, I see tell tale graphics glitches. If I play PS2 games it looks perfectly fine. The only thing that eventually happens is that a red light will blink after the fan has been at maximum for a while. The RSX is definitely failing. I feel like, in the right crafty hands, this unit can still be saved and be made to last. Possibly, by entirely replacing the RSX and modding the cooling system.
Click to expand...

I had mine done by a guy on Ebay.

But of course not every unit will last for years to come after reballing. There are just too many factors.

I was never a fan of the upscaling for the PS2 to 720p/1080p because most games are interlaced anwyay. So, it's just another reason to keep a CRT and a working PS2 I guess.
baphomet said:
That's reflowing, not reballing. Reballing will actually fix things, where as reflowing is just a band aid.
Click to expand...

Yeah, reballing actually takes the chip out of the socket, puts a solder ball on each pin of the cpu using a specific workstation and then completely resoldering the chip to the board.

The problem is the old PS3 runs ridiculously warm, which seems to the be the major issue I think. Causing the joints to get messed up again.

Sony shoulda made the case bigger, put in a crazy PC CPU heatsink with some big fans hahah
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
BONKERS said:
I was never a fan of the upscaling for the PS2 to 720p/1080p because most games are interlaced anwyay. So, it's just another reason to keep a CRT and a working PS2 I guess.
Click to expand...
Worth mentioning that this is one of the FM's strong points. 480i and 480p look almost identical with only a small difference in input lag.
 
T

televator

Member
BONKERS said:
I had mine done by a guy on Ebay.

But of course not every unit will last for years to come after reballing. There are just too many factors.

I was never a fan of the upscaling for the PS2 to 720p/1080p because most games are interlaced anwyay. So, it's just another reason to keep a CRT and a working PS2 I guess.


Yeah, reballing actually takes the chip out of the socket, puts a solder ball on each pin of the cpu using a specific workstation and then completely resoldering the chip to the board.

The problem is the old PS3 runs ridiculously warm, which seems to the be the major issue I think. Causing the joints to get messed up again.

Sony shoulda made the case bigger, put in a crazy PC CPU heatsink with some big fans hahah
Click to expand...

I don't have the PS3 upscale. I let my expensive ass HDTV handle that. It does a marvelous job, too. It's the digital picture and audio I'm after. Especially since the PS3 does RGB full.

Well, wish me luck, y'all. I've decided to go in myself. I'm convinced its a cooling system issue. The fan kicks on to full and the exhaust is barely warm. I already have it out of the shell and I already see the first problem... I got the shit 15 blade fan.

Gonna put some arctic silver on it. I wasn't confident in the thermal paste method of the shop that did the reball.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'm browsing eBay to gauge the price I should be asking for my spare XRGB-3. In the meantime, I found an auction for an XRGB-2 that might be of use for someone looking for a quality but barebones upscaler.

psylah said:
Here's some pics. Not sure what you look for in pictures like these, so I tried to get up close so you could see pixels. I only have a cell phone for photos, so bear with me.
Click to expand...

Cool stuff. I actually kind of want to do a little research on different CRT technologies on this front. Different types of CRTs actually have very distinct looks when you examine them up close and personal like this, and I'd like to see more comparisons.
 
P

Peltz

Member
I'm right there with ya:

DOTPITCH.GIF


Users have posted some great pics in the scanline screenshots thread that really show the difference between shadow mask (top ) and aperture grille (bottom):

IMG_50313.jpg


ChJpxEK.jpg
Click to expand...

Of course, these are broadcast quality monitors, so the consumer stuff will look a bit less clean up close.
 
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geniusbits

Member
NormalFish said:
looking to be like 150$ though. A pretty penny.
Click to expand...
That's too much for me. Honestly I don't mind manually switching, especially since I have a philosophy of not manically changing games I'm playing. My main reason for wanting a SCART switcher is I heard moving them around a lot can be bad for the wiring.
 
BONKERS

BONKERS

Member
lilralphie said:
Pretty soon superg's 8 port SCART switch will be available.

https://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?52513-gscartsw-automatic-8-1-SCART-RGB-switch

There's no waiting list anymore. Protos are being made. Hopefully available for public sale after a while.
Click to expand...

Worth every penny too probably based on the feedback.


And i've stated this a bunch of times, but it's expensive because it's expensive to make. Reality of the situation. This isn't some mass produced cheap switch. It's all HQ parts and hand made. So yeah. You want a good Scart switch that is 100% quality, auto switches without signal degradation, has VGA and separate audio output. Then get one. It will be worth the investment
 
A

antibolo

Banned
It's a handmade device for a very niche audience. $150 is not a bad price. It's obviously not going to be price-competitive with commercial crap mass produced in China, but that's not the point.

I look forward to replacing my Bandridge with this. I already ran out of ports a while ago.
 
M

Mercutio

Member
geniusbits said:
That's too much for me. Honestly I don't mind manually switching, especially since I have a philosophy of not manically changing games I'm playing. My main reason for wanting a SCART switcher is I heard moving them around a lot can be bad for the wiring.
Click to expand...

Indeed, the sockets can get loose. I think you kind of have to compare the price of replacing something like an XRGB Mini if the socket has too much wear to a switch.

The good news is that when these are readily available, a lot of people like me will get rid of our Bandridge 5 SCART switcher.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
I just cannot imagine paying 150$ for something that merely offers me the convenience of not swapping cables. To each their own, i suppose.
 
P

Peagles

Member
NormalFish said:
I just cannot imagine paying 150$ for something that merely offers me the convenience of not swapping cables. To each their own, i suppose.
Click to expand...

It's probably more about just having one good quality switch without any daisy chaining or quality loss, and for those using a JP21 setup it's going to save them a lot of money I'd guess; there's only 1 decent JP21 switch I know of and I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than that, if you can even find it.
 
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metsallica

Member
antibolo said:
It's a handmade device for a very niche audience. $150 is not a bad price. It's obviously not going to be price-competitive with commercial crap mass produced in China, but that's not the point.

I look forward to replacing my Bandridge with this. I already ran out of ports a while ago.
Click to expand...
Same. Looks fantastic.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Peagles said:
It's probably more about just having one good quality switch without any daisy chaining or quality loss, and for those using a JP21 setup it's going to save them a lot of money I'd guess; there's only 1 decent JP21 switch I know of and I'm pretty sure it's more expensive than that, if you can even find it.
Click to expand...

yeah, I fully understand how good the product is. I just think the product itself has limited utility. Certainly too limited for me to invest in without having ample income.

That said... anyone have a recommendation for a component switch? :D
 
P

Peltz

Member
Is assemblergames not down for everyone else? My firm's browser can't access it..?

I'd drop $150 for it in a heartbeat. But if I don't get in on it on time, I'll gladly take some nice, working bandridge switches off people's hands. Mine seems defective.
 
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geniusbits

Member
I'm also interested if someone wants to get rid of their Bandridge for this new thing. I don't see myself having more than 5 SCARTs that I'm using at anything near a regular basis.
 
S

saveweyard

Banned
Peltz said:
Is assemblergames not down for everyone else? My firm's browser can't access it..?

I'd drop $150 for it in a heartbeat. But if I don't get in on it on time, I'll gladly take some nice, working bandridge switches off people's hands. Mine seems defective.
Click to expand...

It's down for me too.

I'm getting my Genesis SCART cable with stereo in the mail today. Think I'll try out Shadowrun first.
 
T

theSlacker

Member
geniusbits said:
I'm also interested if someone wants to get rid of their Bandridge for this new thing. I don't see myself having more than 5 SCARTs that I'm using at anything near a regular basis.
Click to expand...

It will be a ways off but I don't think I'll need mine when/if I get that custom one.
 
M

Mercutio

Member
Peltz said:
Is assemblergames not down for everyone else? My firm's browser can't access it..?

I'd drop $150 for it in a heartbeat. But if I don't get in on it on time, I'll gladly take some nice, working bandridge switches off people's hands. Mine seems defective.
Click to expand...

What's up with your Bandridge? It took me a while to get mine working properly. Combination of the right cables eventually did the trick. I had to get a Male to Male cable; Male SCART side for the output of the hub, and male XRGB Mini on the other end. Had to take the adapter out of the equation entirely.
 
S

sixteen-bit

Member
I never thought I'd need more than 5 inputs on my RGB switch, but I'm fully loaded right now and already gotta swap stuff if I'm doing 240p on DC (Gunbird 2 looks hot as fuck in low-res Tate) and whenever I finally get my PCE modded.
 
N

NormalFish

Banned
Question for you folks: I've gotten some screen tearing on Jak II while playing in progressive but not when playing in interlaced mode. Do you guys think this could be an issue with the Framemeister? Or is it the game?
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
So a Super Famicom turned up in the post...ran it through that XRGBmini and it looked...pretty good. But I wasn't as impressed as I was with RGBNES.

Should I get a new scart cable or is that just how it looks? How much better is the Mini?
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
Jazzy Geoff said:
So a Super Famicom turned up in the post...ran it through that XRGBmini and it looked...pretty good. But I wasn't as impressed as I was with RGBNES.

Should I get a new scart cable or is that just how it looks? How much better is the Mini?
Click to expand...

How is it hooked up now? S-video? The main thing you'd get going from s-video to RGB is better color accuracy, since you won't have any chroma subsampling going on. If you're noticing rainbow banding and are bothered by it then maybe buying a SCART cable is worth it.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
it's hooked up with scart now, the cable came with the console - multi out to scart with a separate wire for audio. Just thought it might be a shit cable. The power supply and after market "snes style" controller that came with the console are both cheap shite. The controller broke literally in five minutes, so I'm guessing the cable isn't going to be all that great.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Jazzy Geoff said:
So a Super Famicom turned up in the post...ran it through that XRGBmini and it looked...pretty good. But I wasn't as impressed as I was with RGBNES.

Should I get a new scart cable or is that just how it looks? How much better is the Mini?
Click to expand...
Sounds like you have a separate sound module model most likely.

The original model SNES/SFami does have a soft image. They get progressively sharper with each of the three revisions (1 chip, 1 chip revision/mini). Modded mini or modded 1chip is as sharp as anything and you can choose the brightness via resistor selection.

Also Super Fami games typically have more muted palettes than lower colour contemporary consoles. It was a point of difference at the time. I've learned to not calibrate my monitors with Castlevania IV, as I set them too bright!
 
M

Mercutio

Member
sixteen-bit said:
I don't have a NESRGB, but compared to my MD, NGCD, PS1, and Saturn the SNES/SFC does have a softer image over RGB.
Click to expand...

Agreed, and every SNES I've tried varies wildly. My 1chip02 now is the sharpest of the bunch, but I've had several other SNES mini systems and some were not so great even with the same RGB mod applied to each.
 
T

Teknoman

Member
Yeah Genesis, Neo Geo, and Saturn benefit so much more from RGB than anything i've seen. I mean SNES still looks nice and vibrant, but no where near as sharp. I wonder how N64 will hit me.
 
Charles Brandon

Charles Brandon

Member
Ok. Well I won't bother buying a new cable then. I know a guy who sometimes has modded Super CIC minis so if he gets one in stock maybe I'll trade up :)
 
BONKERS

BONKERS

Member
NormalFish said:
yeah, I fully understand how good the product is. I just think the product itself has limited utility. Certainly too limited for me to invest in without having ample income.

That said... anyone have a recommendation for a component switch? :D
Click to expand...

I think most of the stuff used in keeping, maintaining and getting the best out of old consoles is of limited utility. :p


Also: Just so people know, you CAN daisy chain the shit out of this thing and know there won't be a problem. (That is, if you are buying 2 of the same one ha)

If you need more than 8 sockets.

The VGA output has a separate amplifier to so you can essentially use it as a splitter.

There is also a sync stripper built in that you can toggle on.

And 3.5mm audio out so you only need 1 audio connection essentially.


_______________________________

On another note, Tim's RGB/Component transcoder board works on a SNES
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=53729&sid=7a31b933b843ec190e4a10ded202924f
 
Huggers

Huggers

Member
Really strange. My Pal Snes rgb picture isn't close to as sharp as my NTSC Snes rgb picture. Huge difference. Wondering whether there's a possibility I fluked buying a 1 chip
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'd be a bit more enthusiastic about that SCART switch if it had a manual switching option instead of automatic.

You can't always rely on proper voltage in SCART cables. I'd probably need to open up my NES and wire the 5V pin that my modder forgot if I wanted to use that.
 
M

Madao

Member
it looks like i might need to hunt for a CRT after all these years since the setup at SGDQ is gonna be different than what i have and not practicing with that could be a costly mistake.

i'm gonna take a look at what is possible to find in my country since this place is pretty dire when it comes to old stuff (people here trend to toss away in the trash all their old stuff since pawn shops are very rare)
 
V

Valcrist0

Neo Member
Really crappy cellphone pics, but I finally got my 32" Sony Trinitron calibrated. Almost got the geometry perfect, can't quite get rid of that over scan and slight curve on the top though.

Code: 
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tfj8u44.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ovmFi68.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Wvrbejc.jpg[/IMG]
 
T

theSlacker

Member
Valcrist0 said:
Really crappy cellphone pics, but I finally got my 32" Sony Trinitron calibrated. Almost got the geometry perfect, can't quite get rid of that over scan and slight curve on the top though.

Code: 
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/tfj8u44.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/ovmFi68.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/Wvrbejc.jpg[/IMG]
Click to expand...

Looks good. I can't imagine how heavy a 32" set is.
 
D

djplaeskool

Member
I'm going to need to read through that massive OP, but I wanted to thank you guys for packing this thread with so much info.

I just finished moving the last of my stuff into my new apartment, and the last load included a wicker foot locker I "inherited" (more like, my parents sent it to me after the probate process) from my late uncle a number of years ago. Out of some semblance of respect, I never opened it. I finally did so today, and holy crap...

h4SwnTa.jpg


I still need to test everything out (except for the SNES games, since I don't actually have an SNES, though the copy of Jurassic Park is still factory sealed). I have a Sharp 275C26B that I use for my saturn games and to play PS2 IIDX games lagless, but I've never actually gone through the process of color correction or calibration on it before. Should be interesting...
 
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