D.Lo
Member
Looks for one that uses the term 'boosted sync'.
It's a small amp on the c-sync line.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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It's a small amp on the c-sync line.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Genesi...ync-TV-lead-/161575853221?hash=item259eabdca5
I think this would work well. I have the Genesis 2 version from the same seller. I don't have a scaler but everything else is great quality-wise.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
It's definitely cleaner but I don't think it's worth the work and I ultimately stopped using mine when I got a framemeister.
sixteen-bit
Member
I'm curious about this too. I always felt SNES audio sounded muffled by default compared to other systems.
How do you guys test CRTs before walking out of a place with it? Portable DVD player running a burned disc with test patterns?
The place I'm going has CRTs on a pallet in the back of a warehouse-type environment, likely very far from any outlets. I'm wondering if there's some sort of portable battery I can buy to turn the thing on right on the spot, without dragging it up front, and then move on to the next one on the pallet if it has unsatisfactory PQ. Maybe this thing:
www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP300-Powerpack-300-Watt-Emergency/dp/B009YR00L4/
I'm hoping this doesn't seem crazy.
The place I'm going has CRTs on a pallet in the back of a warehouse-type environment, likely very far from any outlets. I'm wondering if there's some sort of portable battery I can buy to turn the thing on right on the spot, without dragging it up front, and then move on to the next one on the pallet if it has unsatisfactory PQ. Maybe this thing:
www.amazon.com/Duracell-DRPP300-Powerpack-300-Watt-Emergency/dp/B009YR00L4/
I'm hoping this doesn't seem crazy.
I bring my CMVS and run a game then access the hardware test to view the screen's geometry. It's dirty but gets the job done:
Then I play a game I know very well to test the colors. Usually it's the original Metal Slug. I'm probably less scientific about it than most people here though.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Wii w/ 240p test suite and component cables.
Not really sure what to do if you're not in a position to turn it on and test on the spot.
Just offer way less money.
Thanks for the advice.
Their PVMs and other CRTs are $20 each with a no restrictions 30-day return policy. That's so cheap I wouldn't dare negotiate lower because it would reflect poorly on me.
I'm only trying to find a solution to test on the spot for their convenience. They have a small staff, including a teen working there for the summer. I'm just thinking ahead. If I can pick the right one on the pallet, it would save them and me a lot of trouble. I think the portable power pack and DVD will do from review comments I'm reading.
And it's not that they wouldn't allow me to test on the spot. Their wording was that they have no way of testing the CRTs themselves on premises.
Their PVMs and other CRTs are $20 each with a no restrictions 30-day return policy. That's so cheap I wouldn't dare negotiate lower because it would reflect poorly on me.
I'm only trying to find a solution to test on the spot for their convenience. They have a small staff, including a teen working there for the summer. I'm just thinking ahead. If I can pick the right one on the pallet, it would save them and me a lot of trouble. I think the portable power pack and DVD will do from review comments I'm reading.
And it's not that they wouldn't allow me to test on the spot. Their wording was that they have no way of testing the CRTs themselves on premises.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Jesus.
Right now I'm furiously e-mailing all the video and FX production companies that I know in hopes of snatching a NEC XM29. So far I've been offered a few 19" Diamondtrons...
Ask them if they have a way of simply turning them on. If so, just bring a console of your choice to test them. $20 is impulse buy territory for PVMs even if you cannot thoroughly test what you're buying.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Shit, I'd probably buy an entire pallet of them just for spares and some quick eBay cash.
entremet
Member
I brought close to $200 and Debit/CC cards last time. When he said $20, I thought he was mistaken and meant $120. I repeated "TWENTY?" a bit in disbelief and bought it immediately.
I'll ask them if they can turn it on there; otherwise I'll get the portable battery. I think SNES with S-video cable would be the easiest hookup, and I've stared at Super Mario World for hours doing calibration of two previous CRTs.
I have never seen or heard of the XM29 on sale anywhere, in any condition or at any price. Seems literally impossible to find.
I'll ask them if they can turn it on there; otherwise I'll get the portable battery. I think SNES with S-video cable would be the easiest hookup, and I've stared at Super Mario World for hours doing calibration of two previous CRTs.
I have never seen or heard of the XM29 on sale anywhere, in any condition or at any price. Seems literally impossible to find.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Honestly, I have no real hopes of getting one before starting to build my own cabinet. Sony's PVM/BVM seem to be super common in comparison (if pricey), but I'm not ready to deal with all that VGA/Hz fuckery when I can pick a mint 21" Dell Trinitron for €10 or whereabouts and try to fix the scanlines using HLSL.
I've seen the headaches of some people into the cabinet building thing and I've come to the realization that I'm not about that life.
theSlacker
Member
Where the hell are you guys living that there are stores full of PVMs for $20?
California, most likely. LA is probably home to 75 percent of the world's broadcast monitors.
DeadDuck144
Member
There's one on eBay right now for $3,000 dollars.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
lel
They go for 400 or so in Germany, but they are rare and shipping one of those beasts through Europe gives me the fits.
They go for 400 or so in Germany, but they are rare and shipping one of those beasts through Europe gives me the fits.
sixteen-bit
Member
An XM29 came up in this thread a few months ago in Northern Florida.
2 gaffers got one each from the same source in the DFW area as well, IIRC.
this has been your XM29+ recap for today
2 gaffers got one each from the same source in the DFW area as well, IIRC.
this has been your XM29+ recap for today
NormalFish
Banned
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I love how we all lust after the XM29 as if it were Jada Steven's ass.
We are so fucking done.
We are so fucking done.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
televator pls.
you can't be at a scanline thread and then bitch about some minor ass artifacts.
you can't be at a scanline thread and then bitch about some minor ass artifacts.
Ahem... scanlines ain't in the thread title, bub. Upscalers are before everything else though.
In all seriousness though, warped geometry is a deal breaker for me and the XM29 still does it. Turns out it's a problem that CRT monitors are more prone to, the bigger they are.
wait... the red rows are meant to be invisible? i calibrated my TV to have them visible as much as possible..
theSlacker
Member
Ahem... scanlines ain't in the thread title, bub. Upscalers are before everything else though.
In all seriousness though, warped geometry is a deal breaker for me and the XM29 still does it. Turns out it's a problem that CRT monitors are more prone to, the bigger they are.
I still would like one just for the size. Not dropping a grand on one though.
What I would really like to get is a BVM without as many hours as the ones I have have.
I'm sure it looks great but I doubt it's $2900~ "better" over everything else you can commonly get.
The advice I received here is to do what looks best for your consoles when playing on your screen. Outer red edges visible and NES and Genesis have too much underscan for me. I did it so those outside edges are offscreen and just about everything looks fine.
I read those things run fine even with hundreds of thousands of hours. There's no way to check PVM hours, right?
If there's nothing around your area, look on Google for hospital equipment resellers. Medical-grade PVMs and Olympus monitors (rebranded PVMs) sometimes go for pretty cheap. I have seen as low as $70 for 20" sets. Just watch out for shipping cost, and possible shipping damage I guess.
theSlacker
Member
I haven't seen a PVM with a way to check operation hours, but all the BVMs that I've seen have had a way. The two I have are closing in on 100k hours though. They were basically ran nonstop for years straight, which is normal for them I'm sure. One of them has a problem where it takes like 15 minutes when I turn it on for the picture to stop shifting around, and I'm just waiting for something to go wrong with the other one.
Superblatt
Member
My BVM does the same thing. Takes about 20 minutes to warm up. I think it needs new caps, but I have no clue where to get it fixed these days.
entremet
Member
Yeah, it's crazy and the people that know how to fix it will die off.
Oh well. Enjoy it while it last.
That's why I went with consumer grade Trinitrons. They have much less miles on them.
I have a super flat one with component input, so it works for me.
sixteen-bit
Member
Consumer Trinitons are nice but they can't fuck with them PVM TVLs tho.
Confounding Factor
Banned
Hey guys, is anyone familiar with the Sony Artisan C520K? How does it compare to a FW-900 in terms of gaming, besides the 4:3 aspect ratio which I'm totally cool with.
The nice part about it is it weighs around ~30 lbs less than the FW-900.
The nice part about it is it weighs around ~30 lbs less than the FW-900.
Confounding Factor
Banned
Yes the PVM monitors are very nice, I particularly like them more for 8bit gaming.
FWIW, I used to buy Trinitrons a couple years ago and I still think the curved 90s models were the best. I was fortunate enough to get one that barely had any hours on the tube, it was kept in a basement that was used sparingly.
There's really no accurate way to test how many hours were actually used on the tube. If you were to calibrate one, I would probably look at the luminance level. Frankly the one I had was very bright for its age.
I would say the last couple of years have been great with finding deals on all sorts of CRTs, especially for free. Nobody wants to deal with the weight anymore and seems like the average consumer wants a sharper image.
Personally I can't imagine gaming without a CRT, the motion and color accuracy are still unmatched, that is if you have a unit deisgned for graphic design work and is professionally calibrated. It makes plenty of sense why they went the way of the dodo, but I haven't seen a worthy replacement yet, not even OLED.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
If you want the best quality out of a CRT TV, ignore the Trinitrons for a second and try to find a second hand Metz, a high end Loewe CRT or even some Bag & Olufsen MX-7000.
They are difficult to come by, but they are very cheap now (cost about the same as a Trinitron, while back in the day commanded a fortune) but some of the most advanced models are the closest thing to a good BVM/PVM you'll ever find.
They are difficult to come by, but they are very cheap now (cost about the same as a Trinitron, while back in the day commanded a fortune) but some of the most advanced models are the closest thing to a good BVM/PVM you'll ever find.
Honestly, it depends on the game.
entremet
Member
Oh definitely, but my Trinitron was free.
Can't beat that!
Might pick up a PVM in time, but they're expensive in my region.
Peltz knows the deal.
PVMs are out of reach for me so i'll stick with the Trinitron i got until it dies.
makes sense. i calibrated with Wii and a VC game and it looked fine.
makes sense. i calibrated with Wii and a VC game and it looked fine.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Figured I'd continue this here. I assume most people who care follow both threads. This is re: 240p over HDMI.
My TV even says "240p"
PS2 Menu (480i):
In PS1 game (240p):
I don't know how this is a thing. From what I read online of the chip inside this thing all it does is sample the component inputs, convert to digital, and add audio from spdif and output through the HDMI jack. So if the signal was 240p (480 minus the part that says to shift line down) it's just going straight through and the TV is understanding it. Which is really funny since it totally shits the bed with 240p over composite and doesn't handle component 240p at all.
For those curious this is a fairly cheap LG from 2011, not sure the model number.
D.Lo
Member
Well there you go.
My Panasonic Plasma sees 240p as 480i. As do all Sony's I've seen. And it's obviously quite common that lots of TVs don't accept 240p over component.
What happens when you send the same signal over component? You might have found a sneaky loophole for older consoles with that device, if 240 over HDMI works...
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I get "invalid signal." I would use this more but:
- Audio is spdif only, so handling analog audio is a problem. I opened this thing up and looked up the chip # to see if I could feed it analog audio, but no.
- Doesn't work with 240p on my monitor, and I've been playing a lot more on my monitor lately
- This really wouldn't be future proof cause who knows if it works on a future new TV.
I was planning on just getting a SCART to component adapter with this (2 adapters but latency would have been pretty much nothing) but because of the above and because I had a cheap way of getting stuff from Japan I just bought an FM.
Isn't that insane lol. I like the guy who wants 2,500$ for the lesser NEC crt (XP29 or 4PG maybe?) Recently a fellow in the Las Vegas area sold 3 NEC XM29+'s on eBay for 200$ each.
Picked up another PVM for $20. Nice little 14L2. They let me test it on-site. I did SNES S-video with 240p Suite and a quick look at Mario World. Geometry, color, convergence etc. are in better shape than the 20M4U. The latter actually looks blurry and tired next to it.
They had some of those tiny CRTs and a bunch of 20L1s in great cosmetic condition. Tempting but I need RGB/Component if I get another 20" set.
They also had a massive PVM-2950q. If I had the space...
They had some of those tiny CRTs and a bunch of 20L1s in great cosmetic condition. Tempting but I need RGB/Component if I get another 20" set.
They also had a massive PVM-2950q. If I had the space...
Nice! Mine is a 14L2 and I love it. Mine's heaps sharper than my 20" as well believe it or not! Still on the hunt for a larger monitor that's as nice as my 14L2.
NormalFish
Banned
If I get a PVM, I'll probably get a 14 incher. I really am not very fussed about size, given that my computer monitor (which I'm currently using with my FM) is only 23 inches 16:9. Can't be assed hunting for one right this moment, though.
^I have no problem with 14. Sit down a few feet away like when you were a kid playing with wired controllers on a tube and it just feels perfect.
Yeah, it looks awesome. It must not have too many hours on it. Bright and colorful with dials centered, uniform sharpness and no glaring problems.
But I shortchanged the 20M4U. I think it needed a minute to warm up because it now looks nearly as good as the L2, not as blurry as before, except for a couple of soft areas closer to the perimeter.
I couldn't resist taking the jump on a cheap Extron matrix switch. Feeding video from the same console to the two displays will be fun.
My one gripe is that the bigger set occasionally causes interference on the smaller set, in the form of a faint bottom-to-top scrolling line. It goes away when I turn off the bigger monitor. The space is tight so I can't put more than a couple of inches of space between them.It's a little weird because I always thought these things were meant to be stacked and bunched together without any issues.
Yeah, it looks awesome. It must not have too many hours on it. Bright and colorful with dials centered, uniform sharpness and no glaring problems.
But I shortchanged the 20M4U. I think it needed a minute to warm up because it now looks nearly as good as the L2, not as blurry as before, except for a couple of soft areas closer to the perimeter.
I couldn't resist taking the jump on a cheap Extron matrix switch. Feeding video from the same console to the two displays will be fun.
My one gripe is that the bigger set occasionally causes interference on the smaller set, in the form of a faint bottom-to-top scrolling line. It goes away when I turn off the bigger monitor. The space is tight so I can't put more than a couple of inches of space between them.It's a little weird because I always thought these things were meant to be stacked and bunched together without any issues.
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