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[Kawika]

^ My PVM is the same, I think that's normal.

Ugh that is a bummer. Oddly, I found that my Wii via Component (forced into 240p) actually has a better picture than my SNES via RGB. I don't have the mini. I think this this is due to component's color range being less muted and the ability to adjust phase and chroma.

With RGB, as far as I know, you don't. Adjusting it in the internal menus doesn't do anything on RGB either. With RGB getting your contrast right along with brightness will add the extra "pop".

That was what I resorted to last night. I think I still set the base a bit too high. Can the color be adjusted more than the cool/warm range via the menus?

 

[Mega]

We have similar PVMs. I had the same problem. I went into color temp/bal and switched from d65 (too warm) to User. I did Adjust Gain and have these values: R 610, G 690, B 860. This looks colorful and neutral on my PVM. Do what works for you. You may want a slightly warmer image or your values may not need to be as high. Probably depends on how aged your set is.

Color temp range is set to 5000-10000k.

Those RGB values can also be adjusted in the service menu, same thing in both places. If messing with these settings is wrong, then I can't imagine what else would fix this. They're the only thing I found that affected the saturation and hue in RGB mode. Before this, Mario World and Sonic 2 looked bleak and dull regardless of any Brightness and Contrast tweaking. After, they looked like every good screenshot I was using for comparison. I used Brightness/Contrast to finalize the look.

 

[Peagles]

I don't find it to be a problem, but my PVM has had very little use.

 

[Kawika]

We have similar PVMs. I had the same problem. I went into color temp/bal and switched from d65 (too warm) to User. I did Adjust Gain and have these values: R 610, G 690, B 860. This looks colorful and neutral on my PVM. Do what works for you. You may want a slightly warmer image or your values may not need to be as high. Probably depends on how aged your set is.

Color temp range is set to 5000-10000k.

Those RGB values can also be adjusted in the service menu, same thing in both places. If messing with these settings is wrong, then I can't imagine what else would fix this. They're the only thing I found that affected the saturation and hue in RGB mode. Before this, Mario World and Sonic 2 looked bleak and dull regardless of any Brightness and Contrast tweaking. After, they looked like every good screenshot I was using for comparison. I used Brightness/Contrast to finalize the look.

A little too late tonight to try your suggestion but I will try it tomorrow when I get a chance. I appreciate your help. I prefer a more cooler image than a warmer one for video games so I will give it a shot. Thank you.

 

[Peagles]

So it's my birthday soon... XRGB senses tingling...

 

[BocoDragon]

So it's my birthday soon... XRGB senses tingling...

Do it. I bought mine 2+ years ago, and I couldn't live without it.

 

[D.Lo]

This is as close to a general all system retro gaming thread as any to post this:

I should pretty much just turn my credit card over to eBay seller Yamatoku.

 

[bacardi]

I wonder if there's going to be a new version of the XRGB any time soon, I think there are a few issues with the Framemeister that would probably be fixed in the new revision like the resolution switching pauses?

 

[Peltz]

I wonder if there's going to be a new version of the XRGB any time soon, I think there are a few issues with the Framemeister that would probably be fixed in the new revision like the resolution switching pauses?

I would assume so. There's certainly a market for it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Wasn't there like a 6 year gap between the XRGB3 and the Famemeister? I don't think they're in a rush either since they got HDMI covered with the FM...

though on second thought maybe it'll depend on 4K proliferation

 

[RadarScope1]

So it's my birthday soon... XRGB senses tingling...

So funny. Mine is in late Sept and I have the exact same sensations....

 

[D.Lo]

I can't see them releasing a new one soon, there's little they can offer for upgraders without increasing the price.

The resolution switch affects 0.1% of games. My biggest gripe is the single, front mounted RGB input, and there's hardly a new model in that.

 

[NormalFish]

I can't see them releasing a new one soon, there's little they can offer for upgraders without increasing the price.

The resolution switch affects 0.1% of games. My biggest gripe is the single, front mounted RGB input, and there's hardly a new model in that.

Lack of vga will hopefully be remedied with the next device as well. I'm guessing it won't come for another 3+ years though

 

[Mihos]

So it's my birthday soon... XRGB senses tingling...

It's worth it. And I hate everything.

 

[Peltz]

It's worth it. And I hate everything.

Hey Mikey, I think he likes it.

 

[Mega]

A little too late tonight to try your suggestion but I will try it tomorrow when I get a chance. I appreciate your help. I prefer a more cooler image than a warmer one for video games so I will give it a shot. Thank you.

My understanding is that PVMs were monitors for professionals working on photography and video. The default D65 settings are like daylight on a slightly overcast day, neutral or maybe a little cool to the eye depending on ambient factors. I bet in the monitor's prime, it looked perfect for images of live people and scenery, a good default calibration across most applications. The M series PVMs are mostly from the late 90s, approaching two decades old. The hours used and age of the internal parts must be resulting in a big shift from the intended image quality. And maybe old video game graphics probably don't take as well to looking so warm like photos can. Anyway it looked very murky and yellowed to me until I messed around with settings. My 2004 PVM wasn't as bad but I still tweaked it a bit to get what I felt was a pleasant picture.

 

[Kawika]

My understanding is that PVMs were monitors for professionals working on photography and video. The default D65 settings are like daylight on a slightly overcast day, neutral or maybe a little cool to the eye depending on ambient factors. I bet in the monitor's prime, it looked perfect for images of live people and scenery, a good default calibration across most applications. The M series PVMs are mostly from the late 90s, approaching two decades old. The hours used and age of the internal parts must be resulting in a big shift from the intended image quality. And maybe old video game graphics probably don't take as well to looking so warm like photos can. Anyway it looked very murky and yellowed to me until I messed around with settings. My 2004 PVM wasn't as bad but I still tweaked it a bit to get what I felt was a pleasant picture.

Actually mine was owned by a small time film maker who basically told me it was sitting in his house for years before he decided to part ways with it. I actually ran my Wii VC games though component for a while before getting a SNES with RGB capabilities. I must say, the fact that you could tweak the chroma/phase a bit made the Wii superior picture wise compared to my SNES via RGB.

That said, I think the nature of RGB might just have a bit more muted colors even though the clarity is great. Going from a 14" to a 20" display might change things. Either way, my snes looks better via rgb than s-video and i really only have the SNES connected for SFX games like Super Mario RPG, Yoshi's island and star fox. Some games just play better on the actual hardware over VC/Emu.

 

[dhonk]

Got my RGB modded CSYNC Snes Mini from Bapho. He was also very helpful when I had an issue.

Looks fantastic, much better than my other SNES' RGB. Heres a crummy cell pic of it through my XRGB Mini!

 

[catabarez]

I love my RGB modded SNES mini. I already had an SNES with a decent picture, but I was able to get an SNES mini for pretty cheap and figured I would try and mod it myself and it works great!

 

[Peagles]

Do it. I bought mine 2+ years ago, and I couldn't live without it.

So funny. Mine is in late Sept and I have the exact same sensations....

It's worth it. And I hate everything.

It's on my list... *fingers crossed*

 

[dhonk]

I love my RGB modded SNES mini. I already had an SNES with a decent picture, but I was able to get an SNES mini for pretty cheap and figured I would try and mod it myself and it works great!

Yeah, its 100 percent worth it imo. I had the worst quality SNES RGB so the jump was pretty profound lol.

 

[Timu]

A SNES mini is only worth it when it's modded!!!

 

[SegaShack]

Just got my RGB Modded NES back from Baphomet. Wow! I am completely stunned at how amazing NES games look from RGB. It is easily one of the biggest differences from composite to RGB I've seen. It looks so amazing, perfect, and clean, that I can't believe it's an NES.

If anyone is contemplating RGB modding their NES I can tell you it is definitely worth it.

I'll be trying to connect N64 (S-video) to an Extron switch, which apparently works:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2014/11/28/extron-crosspoint-review/

S-Video and even composite (if you must) can be routed through the matrix too with the appropriate break-out adapters.

Anyone know about these s-video breakout cables?

I made a video about using an Extron Switch with PVMs if you want to check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn_PzpR1sIw

I'm not sure which model you have, but I am using the Extron System 8 Plus.

For S-Video you need some sort of adapter that can separate luminance and chroma. You put the luminance connector into the Y input of the Extron and the chroma portion into the H/HV input of the Extron. Make sure the S-video/SVHS dip switch is up for whatever input number you are using S-Video on.

If there's anything else you need to know about using Extrons let me know, they have somewhat of a learning curve but once you get them figured out it's an amazing time saver.

 

[BONKERS]

So expensive

Quality doesn't come cheap. Not to mention manufacturing costs for a small operation.

There are plenty cheap and shitty SCART switches out there if you want to pay less

 

[Mega]

Just got my RGB Modded NES back from Baphomet. Wow! I am completely stunned at how amazing NES games look from RGB. It is easily one of the biggest differences from composite to RGB I've seen. It looks so amazing, perfect, and clean, that I can't believe it's an NES.

If anyone is contemplating RGB modding their NES I can tell you it is definitely worth it.

I get my modded AV Famicom back on Tuesday. Excited to see the results!

I made a video about using an Extron Switch with PVMs if you want to check it out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wn_PzpR1sIw

I'm not sure which model you have, but I am using the Extron System 8 Plus.

For S-Video you need some sort of adapter that can separate luminance and chroma. You put the luminance connector into the Y input of the Extron and the chroma portion into the H/HV input of the Extron. Make sure the S-video/SVHS dip switch is up for whatever input number you are using S-Video on.

If there's anything else you need to know about using Extrons let me know, they have somewhat of a learning curve but once you get them figured out it's an amazing time saver.

Thanks for responding.
I have an Extron Crosspoint 450 Plus 128. http://www.extron.com/mobile/products/product.aspx?id=crosspoint450plus128

Already set up and it's amazing sending any console to any monitor, any audio output, or multiple ones. I contacted the guy at the review site and he told me about the s-video adapter you mention. The matrix switch has no dip switches (EDIT: my mistake, there are dip switches) but connecting the adapter to G (Y) and H should just work. This thing is a beast and takes RGB, Component and VGA without a problem if the output display can handle it.

I'm waiting for scart to BNC breakout cables for a few consoles still connected to a scart switch. I do have that switch on an Extron input for some amount of flexibility.

The biggest pain was looking for RCA to captive screw adaptors for plugging in audio: http://media.extron.com/product/img-md/csr6.jpg
The few premade ones are expensive,$25-$30, and hard to find. I made my own with Extron's instructions. I do need to use better 3.5mm to female RCA cables for making these. The bunch I got dirtcheap on eBay did the job but have audio buzz if volume is high.

If anyone is interested in getting one of these, they're cheap on eBay, much less than the available good scart switches and built like tanks. Make sure you're getting all the connections on the back that you need. The standard models all have the same button layout in the front for input and output, but may be configured for less. Crosspoint 128 means 12 inputs and 8 outputs. An 84 is 8 and 4, etc.

Also if you're worried about the age and hours of this equipment, the Crosspoints that have Ultra in the name are the newest, followed by the similar looking Plus. Both say "ultra-wideband" on front of the box. These have large white buttons with numbers on them. The older models have smaller plain black buttons. This initially threw me off because at a glance the new models look very old, but in person the buttons look good, have a pleasant click and fully light up.

 

[Kyle]

I should have taken the time to read yor post more properly. Yeah, NES composit video is terribly noisy. So seeing crazy artifacts is part of the deal there unless you mod for RGB.

Don't know why the zapper wont work. As far as I can see from a quick google, it's a 480i CRT. Can you test the zapper on another CRT?

Did you try the NES Zapper with an NES? It doesn't work with AV Famicom

Thanks guys, I've actually got two zappers which won't work on either of my trinitrons that I have. Not sure what the problem is. I am trying to use them with my NES, I am aware it won't work with my AV Famicom. Seems odd that it won't work with either set I own.

Is there any reason to RGB mod my consoles if I don't have an RGB monitor/set of any kind? Can I get any benefit out of the mod for my current component/s-video TV? Convert RGB to component for example? Ultimately I'd love to get am RGB setup going but in the meantime I'd like to see what my options might be.

 

[baphomet]

Thanks guys, I've actually got two zappers which won't work on either of my trinitrons that I have. Not sure what the problem is. I am trying to use them with my NES, I am aware it won't work with my AV Famicom. Seems odd that it won't work with either set I own.

Is there any reason to RGB mod my consoles if I don't have an RGB monitor/set of any kind? Can I get any benefit out of the mod for my current component/s-video TV? Convert RGB to component for example? Ultimately I'd love to get am RGB setup going but in the meantime I'd like to see what my options might be.

Yes, using svideo or RGB to component from an nes will give you a vastly superior picture to the composite output. If your crt has component I would suggest RGB to component with all of your current systems. It will make a massive difference.


Also just a heads up. I've got 6 RGB N64's for sale. Your choice of LED color $75 shipped in the states.

 

[Khaz]

Is there any reason to RGB mod my consoles if I don't have an RGB monitor/set of any kind? Can I get any benefit out of the mod for my current component/s-video TV? Convert RGB to component for example? Ultimately I'd love to get am RGB setup going but in the meantime I'd like to see what my options might be.

RGB to Component is a thing and, although technically a lossy conversion, you won't see any difference between the two. In Americas it's your best way to get a quality picture out of old consoles on a consumer CRT.

 

[RadarScope1]

So I brought my NES to a family weekend where they have a large rear projection TV in a spare room. I know you lose some sharpness and there's the issue of the image being brightest when your view is centered, but -- I'll tell you what, it's fucking cool to play 8-bit games on a 55-inch screen. The PQ is pretty good on this set (Toshiba, probably early 2000s) - bright colors, scan lines and no noise other than what comes from the composite feed itself. It's not talked about much in this thread because it's obviously not the pinnacle of PQ but there's something to be said for fighting a 12-inch tall Bald Bull or filling that huge screen with colorful tetrominos. Looks great in its own way.

 

[SegaShack]

So interestingly enough, at Gamestop today they had a bunch of brand new S-Video cables for NES/64/Cube under the Gamestop brand. They unfortunately are the kind that have the yellow cable as well as the s-video cord (splits the video signal), but still cool to know that GS sells them.

I get my modded AV Famicom back on Tuesday. Excited to see the results!




Thanks for responding.
I have an Extron Crosspoint 450 Plus 128. http://www.extron.com/mobile/products/product.aspx?id=crosspoint450plus128

Already set up and it's amazing sending any console to any monitor, any audio output, or multiple ones. I contacted the guy at the review site and he told me about the s-video adapter you mention. The matrix switch has no dip switches but connecting the adapter to G (Y) and H should just work. This thing is a beast and takes RGB, Component and VGA without a problem if the output display can handle it.

I'm waiting for scart to BNC breakout cables for a few consoles still connected to a scart switch. I do have that switch on an Extron input for some amount of flexibility.

The biggest pain was looking for RCA to captive screw adaptors for plugging in audio: http://media.extron.com/product/img-md/csr6.jpg
The few premade ones are expensive,$25-$30, and hard to find. I made my own with Extron's instructions. I do need to use better 3.5mm to female RCA cables for making these. The bunch I got dirtcheap on eBay did the job but have audio buzz if volume is high.

If anyone is interested in getting one of these, they're cheap on eBay, much less than the available good scart switches and built like tanks. Make sure you're getting all the connections on the back that you need. The standard models all have the same button layout in the front for input and output, but may be configured for less. Crosspoint 128 means 12 inputs and 8 outputs. An 84 is 8 and 4, etc.

Also if you're worried about the age and hours of this equipment, the Crosspoints that have Ultra in the name are the newest, followed by the similar looking Plus. Both say "ultra-wideband" on front of the box. These have large white buttons with numbers on them. The older models have smaller plain black buttons. This initially threw me off because at a glance the new models look very old, but in person the buttons look good, have a pleasant click and fully light up.

I'm sure it'll work fine. Honestly as long as the impedance is the same you can pass anything through any port on there. Mine certainly isn't meant to handle component but it does anyway. That sounds like an awesome Extron. I have to say, I am super jealous you got the audio adapters working, I could not for the life of me figure them out and have a bunch of annoying RCA switches.

By any chance would you be willing to make more? If so I would definitely be interested in purchasing them. Audio is the one part of my set up that is always a pain, but if I could use RCA to those weird Extron audio ports (I think they call them phoenix connectors?) that would be amazing.

 

[Mega]

I wouldn't sell these. I used cheap materials to tide me over until I come across official high quality connectors or make ones with better parts. They have some buzz at high volume. Plus these are the first of anything A/V I've "made" and they're not sturdy and enclosed like the ones in the picture. One came apart after a day and fiddling with it. I only made four for a few systems on component, a scart switch with old consoles, and a couple of audio outputs. The old consoles have scart cables and need scart to BNC breakout cables to plug into the Extron. I went ahead and requested the seller replace the RCA plugs on the breakout cable with phoenix connectors so I won't have to make more standalone ones.


If you need help, read this page:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/36-home-v-distribution/883855-rgbhv-matrix-switcher-question-2.html

Use the PDF in post 41 and follow the advice on post 42. Audio input wiring, unbalanced input with 5 poles. Instead of the cables that go from left and right sleeves to ground, use 1K ohm resistors and you can use these adaptors as either input or output.

 

[Peagles]

So... Anyone got a XRGB mini recently and found it came with a 100-240v adapter? Here I was all ready to go get a whole new adapter but now all I need to do is change the end?

Update: Yep, how awesome! Just had a quick test but have to wait til my brithday to really "open" it, lol.

 

[Peltz]

Enjoy it Peagles! What systems do you plan to use with it?

 

[Peagles]

Enjoy it Peagles! What systems do you plan to use with it?

All the systems!

Just what I've got set up at the mo on my PVM: NES, SNES, N64, Mega Drive, Saturn, PS1, maybe Dreamcast later if I can work out this VGA via RGB thing and wouldn't mind giving Xbox and GC a go as well. There isn't really room in our apt to have those all set up so I'll probably just shift a system over one at a time to play for a day every now and then until we move somewhere bigger hopefully in a year or so.

 

[theSlacker]

Abandoning the PVM/BVM master race huh? :c

 

[Mega]

All the systems!

Just what I've got set up at the mo on my PVM: NES, SNES, N64, Mega Drive, Saturn, PS1, maybe Dreamcast later if I can work out this VGA via RGB thing and wouldn't mind giving Xbox and GC a go as well. There isn't really room in our apt to have those all set up so I'll probably just shift a system over one at a time to play for a day every now and then until we move somewhere bigger hopefully in a year or so.

Use your space more wisely. My place is probably smaller than yours. I have one of these: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00CL9204C/?tag=neogaf0e-20

It takes up very little ground and each shelf holds 500+ pounds. I fit nearly everything on two to three shelves only. The bottom shelf is one-third gaming stuff: box of games with another bin of games on the side. The second one above has all the consoles: NES, SNES, N64, Wii, Genesis, PS1, PS2. Slim Mame HTPC is on the side.

The middle shelf has two PVMs (14 and 20") and a bulky Extron matrix switch. I have two of these hanging under the PVM shelf, above the consoles, for controllers and accessories. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004O9XA2S/?tag=neogaf0e-20

The shelf above the PVMs has 95% non-gaming stuff except two small speakers along the front corners. The top of the unit is also non-gaming stuff.

It's not a wide gorgeous stand with a little cubicle for each system, but it's clean, functional and it works.

 

[Peagles]

Abandoning the PVM/BVM master race huh? :c

Hell no. Why on earth would I get rid of a PVM?

Use your space more wisely.

Thanks for the suggestion but trust me, there is no useable floor space and our apt is packed to the brim with space saving devices and such. That shelf is very cumbersome compared to what we currently use. You're talking to the lady who has a number of consoles set up on a shoe rack under her computer desk here. Lol.

 

[Peltz]

You're talking to the lady who has a number of consoles set up on a shoe rack under her computer desk here. Lol.

Sounds cozy to be honest. Got any pics?

 

[Mega]

Hell no. Why on earth would I get rid of a PVM?
Thanks for the suggestion but trust me, there is no useable floor space and our apt is packed to the brim with space saving devices and such. That shelf is very cumbersome compared to what we currently use. You're talking to the lady who has a number of consoles set up on a shoe rack under her computer desk here. Lol.

I considered stuff like a rack when I started with a Famicom purchase but it has limited vertical space and I wanna reach to the ceilings as much as possible! I guess that only works if your walls are bare like mine. I have a drafting desk for a computer desk, which I will dismantle to put in a shallower one of these shelf units. The desk was a big square waste of space jutting out into the room. I'll be set with eye-level shelf for the computer monitors and a pull-out keyboard tray plus a ton more space. I need to up my game like those tiny apartment videos where people fit in so much stuff.

Hey, you have a PVM-14L2, right? Is there a dedicated button for switching between RGB and Component? I can't believe the 1998 monitor has this but not this 2004 set!

 

[Peagles]

Sounds cozy to be honest. Got any pics?

Not pretty but it's out of sight...

I considered stuff like a rack when I started with a Famicom purchase but it has limited vertical space and I wanna reach to the ceilings as much as possible! I guess that only works if your walls are bare like mine. I have a drafting desk for a computer desk, which I will dismantle to put in a shallower one of these shelf units. The desk was a big square waste of space jutting out into the room. I'll be set with eye-level shelf for the computer monitors and a pull-out keyboard tray plus a ton more space. I need to up my game like those tiny apartment videos where people fit in so much stuff.

Hey, you have a PVM-14L2, right? Is there a dedicated button for switching between RGB and Component? I can't believe the 1998 monitor has this but not this 2004 set!

Nah you switch in the menu. I don't have anything hooked up via component but it'd be a pain if I did, lol.

 

[televator]

Literally, a shoe rack. Haha

 

[D.Lo]

I like it.

My dream is a cozy loft-type arrangement, with permanent custom shelves on all walls. 20" PVM installed. Bed/couch hybrid seating two max. No natural light so no box fade.

Effectively an efficient mini game room reminiscent of a room of a Japanese apartment.

 

[Peagles]

Peagle don't exaggerate.

When I have a bigger place I'd like to have a cosy game spot like that D.Lo, just need the rest of my house to be pretty bare and minimalistic otherwise I get a bit claustro. Best would be to have a games attic, damn that would be so cool.

 

[Mega]

^The shoe rack is nice. The wide TV stand with little compartments for each device is overdone and doesn't always make sense.

Whew. BVM bidding wars on ebay the past couple of hours. A seller put up a handful starting at pretty low bids, which rarely happens. Most are greedy and throw them up at 3x what anyone wants to pay and hope a sucker bites. I managed to grab a G model for under $200 shipped and picked up a BKM-10R control unit on the side.

The best one, D20F1U with all the good modules, went into not-impulse-buy territory. Really wanted that one but it went too high for me! The other HD model, the A20F1U that stupidly does not come with the module for RGB did not draw much attention as expected. I hope whoever got that did their research because the module is hard to find and fucking expensive. There's a single one on ebay already close to $400 with time to spare.

I think I'm done. Really.* Getting a BVM with its separate controls and tons of configuration options seemed daunting and overkill at first. I needed a couple of months to familiarize myself with PVMs and what the did or didn't offer compared to BVMs. I hope it arrives intact.

*Until I get the itch for a 24" widescreen BVM.

 

[Peltz]

Not pretty but it's out of sight...

It's not pretty, yet oh so beautiful at the same time.

 

[IrishNinja]

leave it to Peagles to make a shoerack look kinda baller

 

[Timu]

Not pretty but it's out of sight...

Dat SNES is yellowed as fuck.=O I never seen one in person/had a yellowed SNES before and I have 2 of them.

 

[Peagles]

It's not pretty, yet oh so beautiful at the same time.

This means so much to me. Most people have fancy ass setups and hassle me for it.

Dat SNES is yellowed as fuck.=O I never seen one in person/had a yellowed SNES before and I have 2 of them.

Haha yeh, it's a little less yellow now after the bleach creme treatment but it's still pretty yellow. All the systems I have set up to use are my gross and scratched ones but the guts inside are awesome (RGB and region modded where available, better mobo revisions, etc).

Oh look, Irish is still alive!

 

[Timu]

Oh look, Irish is still alive!

I just noticed him, I wonder where he's been.

 

[Peltz]

I just noticed him, I wonder where he's been.

In a Shenmue III kickstarter/Yakuza 5 induced coma?