geniusbits
Member
Yes the adapter that comes with it works with JP21. Most people go ahead and buy another adapter that works with SCART though because switchers are harder to find for JP21.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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Thanks
Yea I only plan on having my snes and genesis with jp21 so I think I will be okay for now.
So if i'm connecting the majority of my systems with an SCART to Component convert, and the others via composite and s-video, what would be the best way to capture them? Doesn't seem like El Gato since even though you can connect them, you still have to output to an HDMI source TV to play while recording.
Then again it seems like if I just used a bunch of splitters...I might be able to get it to work. Dunno if that would degrade the image on the TV or when recording though.
Then again it seems like if I just used a bunch of splitters...I might be able to get it to work. Dunno if that would degrade the image on the TV or when recording though.
Dunnymeister
Member
Heads up for those interested, NESRGB units are back in stock on etim's online store.
On a related note: Does anyone have any tips for installing these things? I'm looking at installing this into a Twin Famicom (this model). I've read the installation guide a bunch of times but I'm still not 100% what I'm getting myself into.
On a related note: Does anyone have any tips for installing these things? I'm looking at installing this into a Twin Famicom (this model). I've read the installation guide a bunch of times but I'm still not 100% what I'm getting myself into.
sixteen-bit
Member
lol, so I can guess what it is you're getting
Kyle
Member
So from the research I've done I'd really like to get my AV Famicom RGB modded so I can use S-Video and component. Anyone in the NJ/NYC area that can do it for me? Or would you guys recommend I send it in to somebody? If so who? I just want to avoid blowing $25~ on shipping back and forth.
Thanks!
Thanks!
I got a BVM-20G1U. Can anyone advise on what settings to tweak in order to adjust the yellowness? I have tried Gain and Bias in Color Temp Adjust. The set is a lot murkier than either of my PVMs, one of which is years older and has its own share of little issues (softness and misconvergence along some edges). The BVM has almost 60k hours but I have heard of these lasting well into 100k+ territory without any problems. The menu's numbers and letters are a bright neutral white, convincing me that it's definitely a menu setting that's off and not a weak tube. Maybe a bad analog card? Everything else, geometry and convergence, looks near perfect.
From my limited understanding, RGB modding NES and Famicom consoles is not a trivial matter for beginners. I've read about botched installs from inexperienced DIYers and sloppy jobs from questionable services. For those reasons, I recommend getting in touch with baphomet who posts here and has done amazing modding work. He did a fantastic job with my AV Famicom.
From my limited understanding, RGB modding NES and Famicom consoles is not a trivial matter for beginners. I've read about botched installs from inexperienced DIYers and sloppy jobs from questionable services. For those reasons, I recommend getting in touch with baphomet who posts here and has done amazing modding work. He did a fantastic job with my AV Famicom.
baphomet
Member
Unless you have the right equipment, you'll never get that ppu out without damaging the board. It definitely isn't a mod for a beginner.
Dunnymeister
Member
Is the gear listed in http://etim.net.au/nesrgb/remove_ic/ enough for this?
Due to an "accident" I ended up with two Famicom Twin systems. If it all goes wrong then I still have an AV modded fami and another twin fami.
I'm not intending to rush in and blow it up though! I'm hoping to build some skills by working on other projects before tackling the NESRGB. In the meantime I'm trying to get a feel for what the common pitfalls are.
Dunnymeister
Member
Cheers for the warning. The prices on these seem steep but if they're that essential I might pull the trigger on one. I can probably justify the cost if I end up installing these in the rest of my consoles.
Having said that, I'll be asking around if any of my friends/community sheds have one first.
Huggers
Member
Yeah another big thumbs up for Baphomet. Did a cracking job on a NES for me. I would almost certainly have made a mess of it if I'd attempted it. Once you go RGB with the NES there is no going back.
XRGB GET!
My fiance gave it to me this morning. My family put in towards it too. Texted them to say thank you and Mum's all like "You're welcome! So what was it we got you?" lmao...
Said I'd show them instead of trying to explain it
IrishNinja
Member
congrats Peagles!! welcome to the family...i gotta update my profiles now that dude has a few more up, lemme know if you want that link reposted
also don't forget those english remote overlays on SHMUPs if you're interested!
haha ive tried to explain it to like 3 people recently and just done exactly this, yeah
also don't forget those english remote overlays on SHMUPs if you're interested!
Said I'd show them instead of trying to explain it
haha ive tried to explain it to like 3 people recently and just done exactly this, yeah
IrishNinja
Member
congrats on the PCE...but ive still gotta see this done one day, haha. ive got a 2600 ive been meaning to hook up but ive no idea how to on modern sets, haha
Def keen on the remote overlay. How much are they? Right now I'm just looking at a diagram lol.
IrishNinja
Member
i wanna say it was like maybe $10 shipped...lemme know, ill track down the SHMUPs thread/guy for you!
So two questions for those of you in the EU.
I'm trying to find a reputable UK, or EU, site that is selling switchless 60hz kits for a megadrive model 1. Console passion is the only site I've been pointed towards but they never got back to me about buying one from them. Anyone know of any sites they've used in the past or know of that are trustworthy?
With the XRGB-Mini I'm somewhat confused on what cable I'll need to get it hooked up to the MD in 60hz. I know the XRGB comes with a JP21 cable but am I better of buying a separate EuroSCART then using a converter to connect it to the XRGB or just getting a C-Sync EuroSCART that's been wired to go directly to the XRGB.
Appreciate any help since I'm just getting into things and there's a fair amount of info to take on board to get everything right.
I'm trying to find a reputable UK, or EU, site that is selling switchless 60hz kits for a megadrive model 1. Console passion is the only site I've been pointed towards but they never got back to me about buying one from them. Anyone know of any sites they've used in the past or know of that are trustworthy?
With the XRGB-Mini I'm somewhat confused on what cable I'll need to get it hooked up to the MD in 60hz. I know the XRGB comes with a JP21 cable but am I better of buying a separate EuroSCART then using a converter to connect it to the XRGB or just getting a C-Sync EuroSCART that's been wired to go directly to the XRGB.
Appreciate any help since I'm just getting into things and there's a fair amount of info to take on board to get everything right.
I guess this might be the best place to ask about audio stuff as well.
So while I was out today, I found a set of speakers at a Goodwill:
And my aunt happened to have an old stereo receiver, the Pioneer SX-680.
Question is, do these speakers have a built in sub or is that how all old tower speakers look? If they sound much better than the Creative 2.1 PC speakers I've currently got hooked up, i'd like to roll with those. But I've also gotta figure out how to connect the receiver to my TV lol.
So while I was out today, I found a set of speakers at a Goodwill:
And my aunt happened to have an old stereo receiver, the Pioneer SX-680.
Question is, do these speakers have a built in sub or is that how all old tower speakers look? If they sound much better than the Creative 2.1 PC speakers I've currently got hooked up, i'd like to roll with those. But I've also gotta figure out how to connect the receiver to my TV lol.
IrishNinja
Member
so forgive me for asking prior but is this right here the best way to hook up a 2600 to a modern set?
The guy that made the NESRGB mod just recently made one for the Atari 2600. Prior to that the best video was through s-video.
sixteen-bit
Member
P5 protag is #TeamCRT
D.Lo
Member
http://m.ebay.com.au/itm/XRGB-Mini-Framemeister-English-Remote-Translation-Overlay-/231052088477
Mine has gone pink after 3 years though...
Aren't these filters already built in modern sets?
IrishNinja
Member
haha, damn...okay, points for this, team
yeah, that looks like it! mine's...1-2 years, no fading yet thankfully
are they? ill check my connections but i don't think it'll hook in currently
Get! Cheers!
Friend of Sonic
Member
I love the S-video on mine but you could go baller status and do RGB.
Unless your team #RF of course
I'm not experienced enough with tower speakers but I'm guessing the three tier design is meant to cover low to high frequency.
Edit: This FAQ should help understand. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rCVGk2KqusR/learn/learningcenter/home/speakers_faq.html#powered_sub
For music it should sound good enough. For theater applications you'll want a separate sub.
geniusbits
Member
Mine is pink and I've only had it for half a year.
geniusbits
Member
Can someone explain to me how if a 480i native CRT creates black lines in between scanned lines for 240p content, that a monitor that can do 720p or 1080i (HD BVM/PVMs) would not create black lines in between lines scanned for 480i/p content, while at the same time not upscaling that lower resolution content to 720p/1080i?
If the image fills your screen, it's upscaled. Your TV may tell you that the source is 480i, but it still has to upscale it in order to have it fullscreen. If it wasn't upscaled, you would have a tiny picture in the middle of your TV. It's precisely because modern TVs do a shit job at upscaling that people buy expensive professional upscalers.
geniusbits
Member
Ok but if an HD BVM is upscaling all content to its highest resolution why are there scan lines on 240p video?
Right, I didn't see you were talking about professional CRTs, my mistake.
It depends on the HD CRT. Some upscale 240p/480i signals to 480p (most/all customer-grade HD CRT), some professional CRT have a fully variable line frequency and can properly display 240p480i up to 720p/1080i.
The question is, why can you see black interstitial lines at 240p but not at 480p even though the CRT can display 720p? I guess it amounts to the size of the spot and the separation your eye can discern. An HD CRT will have a very high vertical resolution, meaning the 240p lines would be very visible, whereas 480p lines would be much less visible. Consumer SD CRT had barely visible scanlines when displaying 240p, you could only notice them on dark colours.
I'm not all knowing about the intricate details of HD BVMs, but speaking from experience with the XM29 which can both display 240p with scan lines and ED/HD progressive signals, the reason is because it can do both 15khz and 31khz. It won't line double 15khz to 31khz and try to display it as 480p or above, hence you correctly get scan lines with 240p even though it has more vertical lines. It still kinda behaves like a native 480i display in a manner of speaking. A typical HD CRT doesn't do this because it's 31Khz only.
BTW, it's this versatility that really makes the XM29 special. I get the impression that most people believe the XM will produce superior picture quality to a PVM or BVM or they think of it simply as a status symbol. However, the reality is that it's completely possible that certain other pro monitors perform better than the XM or at the very least the XM isn't much better than them.
Phonedork did a review of the Sony BVM-D24E1WU and a head- to-head comparison to the XM29. I guess one's favorite picture depends on personal taste, but the BVM is clearly much sharper, to such an extent that's likely not just due to screen size differences. The BVM also has more accurate colors and superior saturation.
I don't doubt the XM29 is a great set, but it seems hyped to mythic levels based on its large screen size and unusual scarcity. I don't see it having that sort of reputation if they were as common to find as PVMs. People crave what they can't have regardless if equal or better options exist. I certainly wouldn't mind owning it if I came across one!
I don't doubt the XM29 is a great set, but it seems hyped to mythic levels based on its large screen size and unusual scarcity. I don't see it having that sort of reputation if they were as common to find as PVMs. People crave what they can't have regardless if equal or better options exist. I certainly wouldn't mind owning it if I came across one!
geniusbits
Member
So are you guys saying if the screen was big enough eventually you might see scan lines from 480p content on HD BVMs?
theSlacker
Member
Yeah, the reason why I want one is because it is pretty much the biggest CRT screen that is good for RGB.
There's bigger ones...
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It looks like my epic monitor search saga is coming to an end with the purchase of a 21" Sony Multiscan E-530.
There's not a lot of information about it on the internet, but I feel like I can't go wrong for €30.
That's about €1 per kg, though. Moving that beast around is going to make for an interesting warmup.
Edit: The thing I REALLY love about this monitor is that unlike Dell and LaCie's, the bezel is 100% square and smooth, so I won't have to decase it when I build my arcade cabinet nor I'll have to move around the board with all the video controls.
There's not a lot of information about it on the internet, but I feel like I can't go wrong for €30.
That's about €1 per kg, though. Moving that beast around is going to make for an interesting warmup.
Edit: The thing I REALLY love about this monitor is that unlike Dell and LaCie's, the bezel is 100% square and smooth, so I won't have to decase it when I build my arcade cabinet nor I'll have to move around the board with all the video controls.
No, okay, what are you asking? Sorry, there's some misunderstanding here.
The only content that'll have scan lines is 240p on a 15khz CRT that does interlace.
geniusbits
Member
Why would a 31khz monitor being fed 480p that displays 720 or more lines be any different? It wants to draw 720 or so lines but only has content telling it to draw 480.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Progressive screen = every line of the screen is filled on each frame
Interlace screen = every other line of the screen is filled in each frame
"240p" video is actually a peculiar way to exploit how 480i CRT screens function. Instead of drawing the odd lines on one frame and drawing the even lines on the next, it just draws the odd lines on each frame and ignores the even lines altogether. Those blank, unused even lines are what gamers call "scanlines."
Flatscreens are progressive by nature. As far as I know, there is no such thing as an interlaced flatscreen TV or monitor. When you feed such a screen a lower resolution video signal, it'll upscale and stretch the video to fill the whole screen. If you feed it an interlaced video source, the display will attempt to deinterlace the video before displaying it, interpolating the parts of the picture that the screen thinks should be in the "missing" lines of each field. It's never going to assume that those lines are *supposed* to be blank; it will always try to fill them with something.
You could theoretically make a TV with a deinterlacing algorithm advanced enough to tell the difference between 240p and 480i sources, and to insert blank lines if it detects 240p, but no such TV works like this.
no dude, he's talking about HD CRT. I know, it's not clear, I made the same mistake earlier.
The thing is 240 is half 480, yet the black line are really thin on an SD display. You could barely see them on a cheap CRT and only notice them on dark colours. Now, 480 isn't half 720, 360 is. 480 is 2/3 of 720. So you would have even thinner black lines on a 720p screen displaying 480p content. And the fact is you can't see them, except maybe looking very closely at the screen or with a magnifying glass. The other thing to take into account is that the width of the line depends of the brightness of the pixel. It's also why, even though you can't see black lines at 480p on a 720p display, you can still display 720 lines, as the brighter pixels would sort of shine over its dimmer upper and lower neighbours. You don't see the separation because there are no separate cells being switched on and off like on an LCD, the electron beam itself makes the separation.
baphomet
Member
It looks like my epich monitor search saga is coming to an end with the purchase of a 21" Sony Multiscan E-530.
There's not a lot of information about it on the internet, but I feel like I can't go wrong for 30.
That's about 1 per kg, though. Moving that beast around is going to make for an interesting warmup.
Edit: The thing I REALLY love about this monitor is that unlike Dell and LaCie's, the bezel is 100% square and smooth, so I won't have to decase it when I build my arcade cabinet nor I'll have to move around the board with all the video controls.
That should be great for 480p and higher content. It's obviously not going to work with 240p without an upscaler or something though.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Oh, I see.
Also, to add to this: Depending on what type of CRT we're talking about, it's possible that it would change its "native resolution" (so to speak) to account for the video source. A PC monitor would sort of work like this. If you set the PC's resolution to 768 lines tall, the monitor will draw 768 lines. If you set the PC resolution to 480 lines, the monitor will actually draw 480 lines, no more and no less. The monitor won't try to "fill" a 768-line frame with 480 lines with a bunch of blank lines for padding or try to upscale the video to match its max resolution; it will actually change the number of lines that it's drawing to match the source.
I've heard (but never verified) that some HD CRT TVs actually work differently and will attempt to upscale an SD source to the TV's max resolution. Such a TV would not have pronounced scanlines like an SDTV CRT would.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
It's going to be used in a homemade arcade cabinet running MAME, so that shouldn't be a problem
I'm still wondering if I'll need to use a scanline generator, though. We'll see.
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