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[Mega]

20M4 is a high-end PVM from the late 90s. Has all the connections you need, high TVL, games look fantastic. Test it out with patterns or games you know well how they should look. I say go for it if the picture looks relatively problem-free* and the price is reasonable ($100~).

*it's an aging set but should be bright, colorful, jitter-free, reasonably sharp with a little softness here and there, have only minor mis-convergence that doesn't distracting during gameplay, no permanent discoloration or weird splotches after degaussing.

This is the picture on mine:

It has some of the minor issues outlined above but good overall. The biggest one that you can't see because I put in extra overscan is a "squashed" upper right corner that can't be fixed with geometry controls (needs well-placed magnetic strips on the inside).

 

[Peltz]

Guys, I know I've asked this before, and it's been covered, but I was wondering if someone could suggest a good capture device.

I'm looking for something that will take:

Composite
RGB
Component
HDMI
and Possibly S-Video

Resolutions need to range from 240p to 1080p.

Edit: Or... maybe it's just better to capture everything via the XRGB Mini's output? Sorry, I'm a bit sleep deprived. What do people here use?

 

[sixteen-bit]

645 uses an X-Capture 1 and gets some darn good looking footage.

 

[NormalFish]

I use an Avermedia Game Broadcaster HD, which takes 720p/60 or 1080p/30 and just capture everything via the mini. I mostly use it for streaming though, and not recording high quality video.

I think there's at least one other retrogaffer that does similarly.

 

[Peltz]

Here's how I'm thinking of setting things up for RGB stuff:

1. Console SCART -> 2. SCART to BNC Converter -> 3. PVM -> 4. BNC to SCART Converter -> 5. XRGB Mini -> 6. Capture device.

This way, I'll be able to game on my PVM while recording.

But where in the setup do I extract the audio? I assume I should do it at step 2 (where I currently do it). But if so, how do I feed the audio into both speakers or headphones as well as the capture device?

Ideally, I'd like audio to go to both an external source (either headphones or sound system) and the capture device simultaneously. I'd rather avoid splitters if possible to avoid any degradation of quality.

 

[geniusbits]

20M4E is insanely high quality. It's got 800 lines. It will have some thick black scanlines on 240p content if that's your fetish. But that doesn't really resemble the CRTs we grew up with back in the day - it's extremely sharp and vibrant in comparison. It makes games look better and clearer than you've ever seen in your life.

The 2054QM is a step down. It has 600 lines... but some people prefer this. It will have thinner, but still very discernible scanlines on 240p stuff.

Wait wait I thought TV lines weren't the cause of scan lines!

 

[Peltz]

Wait wait I thought TV lines weren't the cause of scan lines!

They are... More lines of resolution = thicker horizontal black scanlines and sharper picture.

600 lines:

750 lines:

 

[Timu]

Guys, I know I've asked this before, and it's been covered, but I was wondering if someone could suggest a good capture device.

I'm looking for something that will take:

Composite
RGB
Component
HDMI
and Possibly S-Video

Resolutions need to range from 240p to 1080p.

Edit: Or... maybe it's just better to capture everything via the XRGB Mini's output? Sorry, I'm a bit sleep deprived. What do people here use?

This capture card for 200 bucks will do all you listed.

I use the other one but doesn't do composite and svideo unless you use a converter/upscaler, though I'm working on that.

 

[Peltz]

This capture card for 200 bucks will do all you listed.

I use the other one but doesn't do composite and svideo unless you use a converter/upscaler, though I'm working on that.

Thanks... it has to be external for me though because I don't have a PC, just laptops.

 

[Timu]

Thanks... it has to be external for me though because I don't have a PC, just laptops.

The 200 bucks is external though.=p

 

[Teknoman]

You invented time travel to place an order later today? But to what end?

President Rex time paradox.

EDIT: Yeah I can vouch for the Startech. Took that recommendation and it works great.

 

[Peltz]

The 200 bucks is external though.=p

Yep...

Are there any cheaper external ones that just do HDMI?

 

[Timu]

Yep...

Are there any cheaper external ones that just do HDMI?

AverMedia ExtremeCap U3, Elgato HD 60 and XCAPTURE mini HD Capture Unit are HDMI only external ones.

 

[Peltz]

AverMedia ExtremeCap U3, Elgato HD 60 and XCAPTURE mini HD Capture Unit are HDMI only external ones.

Thanks!

 

[blast processed]

My mind is blown on how good my Genesis looks through RGB. Composite is gross, I've been living a lie this entire time.

 

[sixteen-bit]

My mind is blow on how good my Genesis looks through RGB. Composite is gross, I've been living a lie this entire time.

welcome to the club!

 

[catabarez]

I can comfirm that retro console accessories will make a SCART cable for a doujindance modded PC Engine Duo. Just buy the right cable and add a message letting her know.

 

[IrishNinja]

by the way:

Has anyone seen this? It was in the Framemeister thread on shmups forums
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1132716&sid=11bb8def64d87f097807a5a8479066bb#p1132716
WIP Scart stickers to help you know what you plugged in:

thought i'd share my setup (bit messy right now!)

sizing down the logos took some effort, but worth it!

 

[sixteen-bit]

thought i'd share my setup (bit messy right now!)

shoutouts to ikea

 

[NormalFish]

shoutouts to ikea

Basically every bit of collection is stored in something ikea. Collector's best friend, tbh.

 

[Teknoman]

My mind is blow on how good my Genesis looks through RGB. Composite is gross, I've been living a lie this entire time.

Yup. Get some cheap 2.1 speakers for your tv and it'll be even be more mind blowing playing streets of rage.

 

[blast processed]

Yup. Get some cheap 2.1 speakers for your tv and it'll be even be more mind blowing playing streets of rage.

I have everything going through a sound bar right now. Sounds great! Maybe I'll do the same for my Saturn.

 

[Mega]

I can comfirm that retro console accessories will make a SCART cable for a doujindance modded PC Engine Duo. Just buy the right cable and add a message letting her know.

What's wrong with the scart cable that doujindance packs with the system?

 

[catabarez]

What's wrong with the scart cable that doujindance packs with the system?

Absolutely nothing. It's a quality SCART cable, I just wanted coaxial SCART cables for all of my consoles and I wasn't sure if I could order one for my PC Engine.

 

[Timu]

Should be very easy to mod it then.

Edit: What's the model no.? If it's early enough you won't need to mod in csync.

NS141660477.

 

[catabarez]

NS141660477.

Any way you can open it up?

 

[Bill Rizer]

What is the last word about Flat VS Curved crt? I'm deciding which I should pick up. I can choose between a 28" standard and a 29" flat, 28" would fit better on my tv stand and should be more adequate for my viewing distance (I'm very space constrained). I think curved is also more natural and should have better focus but, well, flat looks better for straight lines I think...

 

[Timu]

Any way you can open it up?

Nope.=O It's an early model so it should work as I read only NS1 models work with it.

 

[catabarez]

Nope.=O It's an early model so it should work as I read only NS1 models work with it.

Right, but csync is wired only on the really early revisions and the only real way to tell is by opening it up. I had to mod in csync on mine as well.

 

[Madao]

one thing that just came to mind to me tonight:

what do people who have the original SMB games hooked up with RGB to PVMs and monitors think about Super Mario Maker? do you prefer the look of the original or the way Mario Maker looks?

 

[Sixfortyfive]

What is the last word about Flat VS Curved crt? I'm deciding which I should pick up. I can choose between a 28" standard and a 29" flat, 28" would fit better on my tv stand and should be more adequate for my viewing distance (I'm very space constrained). I think curved is also more natural and should have better focus but, well, flat looks better for straight lines I think...

Not sure how accurate this is on a broad scale, but in my experience, curved CRTs often had worse overscan, but flat CRTs often had worse convergence.

one thing that just came to mind to me tonight:

what do people who have the original SMB games hooked up with RGB to PVMs and monitors think about Super Mario Maker? do you prefer the look of the original or the way Mario Maker looks?

For most of the styles, I don't really have a preference, but I do prefer Mario Maker's SMB3 style over the original SMB3, and it's mostly because I thought SMB3 was kind of an ugly game to begin with. Between sprites that glitched out when they were on the edge of the screen and some bizarre aesthetic choices (ex: Fire Mario being a couple ugly shades of orange all over), it always left a little to be desired. Mario Maker doesn't really change the style up that much, but at least the edges of the screen aren't constantly glitching out as it scrolls.

 

[D.Lo]

For most of the styles, I don't really have a preference, but I do prefer Mario Maker's SMB3 style over the original SMB3, and it's mostly because I thought SMB3 was kind of an ugly game to begin with. Between sprites that glitched out when they were on the edge of the screen and some bizarre aesthetic choices (ex: Fire Mario being a couple ugly shades of orange all over), it always left a little to be desired.

Kind of plays into your previous point, the glitches weren't visible on most TVs because of overscan!

I did always prefer SMB2USA graphically.

Absolutely nothing. It's a quality SCART cable, I just wanted coaxial SCART cables for all of my consoles and I wasn't sure if I could order one for my PC Engine.

Most PC Engines are modded to work with the Mega Drive 1 pinout, so try a Mega Drive scart cable.

 

[sixteen-bit]

SMM looks pretty good but I don't really care for the drop shadows

 

[catabarez]

Kind of plays into your previous point, the glitches weren't visible on most TVs because of overscan!

I did always prefer SMB2USA graphically.

Most PC Engines are modded to work with the Mega Drive 1 pinout, so try a Mega Drive scart cable.

The pinout is different, I had already checked. She was able to make me one for my PC Engine though if anyone else wants to get a coax SCART cable.

 

[Khaz]

Megadrive2 9pin mini-DIN and its pinout should be standard for RGB mods. It has the right amount of pins for RGB and stereo audio, it fits in an RCA hole so doesn't need more shell carving, plenty of high quality ready-made cables are around, and the plugs are standard and plentiful if you need to make yours.

The fact that Tim of NESRGB and 2600RGB fame doesn't use it and instead uses his own 8 pin mini DIN which needs an external audio jack baffles me.

 

[D.Lo]

Tim's cable matches the Framemeister'a RGB input, and is a very common computing cable, so you can get a good quality 'RGB' cable for $1 that way.

MD2 cable would be nice since scart cables already exist for it, but 8 does make sense. And there's enough pins for everything (RGBVSLR) it doesn't need the audio jack, that's just a bonus I think?

The pinout is different, I had already checked. She was able to make me one for my PC Engine though if anyone else wants to get a coax SCART cable.

oh actually I just remembered, they're the same pinout for composite (5 pin din) so can share composite cables. They do most likely have the same pinout for RGB, but Sega used a different shape for RGB from the standard (U instead of the typical C) so it won't fit. Neo Geo cable should do it I think.

Then again Sega's decision goes all the way back to the 1985 Mark III so they were technically 'first' for once.

 

[Bill Rizer]

Not sure how accurate this is on a broad scale, but in my experience, curved CRTs often had worse overscan, but flat CRTs often had worse convergence.

So, curved is the way to go for better fidelity? (I also seem to recall that geometry in the mid of the screen was odd in flat screens, noticeable in pannings but I could have just dreamt of this).

 

[Peltz]

SMM looks pretty good but I don't really care for the drop shadows

I've been having a total blast with it. I actually dig the shadowed look of the game.

It makes you feel like you're placing colorforms on graph paper or something.

So, curved is the way to go for better fidelity? (I also seem to recall that geometry in the mid of the screen was odd in flat screens, noticeable in pannings but I could have just dreamt of this).

I imagine that this varies greatly on a screen by screen basis and has little to do with curvature. The degree of curvature is more of a preference thing.

 

[entremet]

I didn't know how pricey GXTVs got.

I had one. I remember only composite, not even S-video. Great sound, though.

I gave mine away lol.

 

[geniusbits]

I didn't know how pricey GXTVs got.

I had one. I remember only composite, not even S-video. Great sound, though.

I gave mine away lol.

I thought the whole thing was low quality parts, just a gimmick really. Years ago, before learning anything about display tech, I really wanted to hunt one down.

 

[missile]

So, curved is the way to go for better fidelity? ...

Basically, yes. Better focus and less astigmatism of the spot towards the edges.
The optimal screen is part of a sphere, yet flats (less curved) have gone miles to
minimize all these problems using special magnets and deflection currents.

 

[Bill Rizer]

Basically, yes. Better focus and less astigmatism of the spot towards the edges.
The optimal screen is part of a sphere, yet flats (less curved) have gone miles to
minimize all these problems using special magnets and deflection currents.

Ok, I went sorta overkill and, long story short, I'm waiting delivery for five brand new crt tvs. I was fed up to play dice with used tvs that more often that not are defective or where the tube is worn out.

I picked up 2 29" 4:3 flat and 3 28" 4:3 curved. I will start setting up the 28" I think. Hope they're good quality and I'm set for life. I only have to sort where to store them, lol

 

[Teknoman]

Hmm... was going to check out my order and http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php is showing a 403 screen. Same for all his pages aside from the main page and that Game Gear on TV page. Hope nothing crazy happened.

 

[baphomet]

Hmm... was going to check out my order and http://etim.net.au/shop/shop.php is showing a 403 screen. Same for all his pages aside from the main page and that Game Gear on TV page. Hope nothing crazy happened.

I just placed an order and everything seems fine on my end.

 

[missile]

Ok, I went sorta overkill and, long story short, I'm waiting delivery for five brand new crt tvs. I was fed up to play dice with used tvs that more often that not are defective or where the tube is worn out.

I picked up 2 29" 4:3 flat and 3 28" 4:3 curved. I will start setting up the 28" I think. Hope they're good quality and I'm set for life. I only have to sort where to store them, lol

Some flats are still curved. The front glass is made flat, but from the
inside it's still curved. You can see it by looking at the edges of such
a CRT, the glass thickenss towards the edges which also produces
a slight distortion.

 

[geniusbits]

Anyone know where you would get the parts, specifically the SCART female pieces for the ins and outs but also general electronics pieces you might need, to make a SCART switch?

 

[IrishNinja]

shoutouts to ikea

Basically every bit of collection is stored in something ikea. Collector's best friend, tbh.

haha yeah - should have pics soon, but my entire gaming collection is on 4 or so ikea billy bookcases, and i just got an expedit one for the vinyl in the room. can't front, they make decent stuff for the price

 

[Teknoman]

I just placed an order and everything seems fine on my end.

Had to clear my cookies for some reason.

About how long does the US distribution take to ship anyway?

 

[BONKERS]

One correction. I meant to say: "A" series is incompatible with older accessories in favor of A-exclusive parts, such as newer video cards.




I still think you have it backwards. Scanlines are horizontal lines that from top to bottom make up the vertical resolution. The max horizontal lines are fairly uniform across most CRTs since the majority are 15.7khz.

You see more variety among CRTs when it comes to TVL, the vertical lines that make up the horizontal resolution. At 800 and up, it's just about impossible to see them at normal playing distance. You can see them more easily with photos captured by a good camera.



480p isn't displaying on a 720p screen. These aren't fixed pixel displays. 480p or 720p capability basically means that the CRT is faster at drawing horizontal lines than a monitor that maxes out at around 240p . There are no discernible scanlines because they're practically invisible. Heck, scanlines at 240p are sometimes hard to see on ordinary, non-pro CRT screens.

This is very true.

Ex: Here is a picture of a PS1 running in 240p on my Consumer Phillips set with Component. http://u.cubeupload.com/MrBonk/PS2240p.jpg
(Not the best picture, but good enough to see)


When it comes to curved vs non curved. I kind of prefer Curved. My Phillips is flat and it has issues.

 

[Trevelyon]

Might need a little help. Picked up a funky pvm (1442QM) today that's been pre-adjusted to 16:9 (go figure) Doesn't seem to have toggle between ratios, nor a service menu to tinker and adjust back.

So, I'm facing the possibility of having to crack the back and fiddling around, which I'm not 100% on doing.