Do they sell the kits separate or do they make you send a console in? At work so can't dig too deep but so keen for a kit!
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Do they sell the kits separate or do they make you send a console in? At work so can't dig too deep but so keen for a kit!
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Spotted a PVM-20N5U on Craigslist for $30.
Any opinions on this model?
Edit: It only appears to have composite and s-video in, so no RGB capabilities.
Despite this, is it still a superior set to an average Trinitron set or should I just nab a standard Trinitron TV?
It's about a 4-hour round trip to pick up so if it's not much better than an average set I might just pass on it.
Any opinions on this model?
Edit: It only appears to have composite and s-video in, so no RGB capabilities.
Despite this, is it still a superior set to an average Trinitron set or should I just nab a standard Trinitron TV?
It's about a 4-hour round trip to pick up so if it's not much better than an average set I might just pass on it.
from their FAQ, it seems the kits are only sold to installers atm since it looks like a complicated procedure.
NormalFish
Banned
This is what I remember from when they were released, but I thought it sounded like they might let others resell them. Dunno if that's going on.
baphomet
Member
Spotted a PVM-20N5U on Craigslist for $30.
Any opinions on this model?
Edit: It only appears to have composite and s-video in, so no RGB capabilities.
Despite this, is it still a superior set to an average Trinitron set or should I just nab a standard Trinitron TV?
It's about a 4-hour round trip to pick up so if it's not much better than an average set I might just pass on it.
I'd prefer an average Trinitron with component than that.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Yeah that's what I was thinking. 20 inches is also a bit bigger than I was looking for right now.
Thanks. Found a few positive impressions but not much information about it online and the price is really steep. I'd probably try a cheaper solution first and if it stinks, look into this.
20 inches is the sweet spot when you're gaming on a desk imo. And the only option below is 14 inches, which is tiny.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I dunno, I was actually looking long and hard at the Magnavox Perfect View TV on eBay, which is only 9 inches.
I figure at that size it's something I can easily store in a closet or on a shelf until I want to use it, when I can then pull it down and set it up on a table.
I'm really in love with this thing, but it's only available in South Korea. (Or was, anyway, since I believe it's a few years old at this point.)
geniusbits
Member
I think you would have trouble playing some games on that thing, remember they are designed for a TV not for a smart phone screen. A 20" monitor can be stored in a closet, it's not too wide. One of the members here has a wheeled cart system with a monitor on top and the console in the body of the table, which had some heavy duty metal casters on it with wheels. That is convenience.I dunno, I was actually looking long and hard at the Magnavox Perfect View TV on eBay, which is only 9 inches.
I figure at that size it's something I can easily store in a closet or on a shelf until I want to use it, when I can then pull it down and set it up on a table.
I'm really in love with this thing, but it's only available in South Korea. (Or was, anyway, since I believe it's a few years old at this point.)
Huggers
Member
Yeah a Framemeister will make it look stunning.
I'm interested to know from people that have them about any perceivable input lag. I wouldn't mind one as an option but any input lag at all can put me off. Is it down to the TV? Is it not noticeable?
Yeah you're completely right of course. I think I have become an image snob
20" is the perfect screen size but the monitors are admittedly bulky and heavy. If that's too much, step down to 13-14". It's really the minimum for playing games comfortably. It will be compact, if space is a concern, and light enough to move around regularly. Still, 14" can surprising at how small it appears. It requires some time to adjust and sitting in a little closer.
That 9" screen will probably be disappointing. In theory it may be fine because we play portable games on screens half that size, but that's only because they're made for that. And holding the screen means we instantly change the distance to our eyes depending on what we're seeing at any given moment. There is no way to get that level of control with a stationary display. And you can't comfortably sit close enough to compensate for the small screen. Buy a really inexpensive 9" CRT on ebay before you drop money on a pricier set and see for yourself. You will probably grow to hate it.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I have an SNES Mini I want to get modded for RGB, and I'm thinking about getting my TG16 modded for RGB. Does anyone have anyone they can recommend from personal experience for either?
I'm considering getting http://store.retrofixes.com/ to do my SNES Mini.
I'm just worried about sending someone my console and ending up with a console full of hot glue.
I'm considering getting http://store.retrofixes.com/ to do my SNES Mini.
I'm just worried about sending someone my console and ending up with a console full of hot glue.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Looking over that store page reminds me that my NES is starting to show some interference in the picture that seems to be tied to the power switch, as if I jiggle it it clears up a bit before going back to how it was prior. I suppose I'll have to get that serviced someday.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Just don't send it to anyone named Drakon in Toronto and you'll be fine.
Alternatively learn some basic soldering? The RGB mod for the SNES mini is pretty easy as far as console mods go.
I can vouch for Baphomet as well, he did my Famicom (twice actually!) and does indeed do great work!
digita1alchemy
Member
Same here, he did the RGB mods on my SNES-101 and NES-101, and I also purchased an RGB N64 from him. Quality all around and fair pricing as well.
RadarScope1
Member
Someone give me the lowdown on RGB converted to component. Major downgrade? Can it be done as a simple pass-through or does it have to be done via a converter that introduces lag or other garbage?
Laevateinn
Member
Tried my monitor (NEC PC-TV455) with VF2 today and this happened. I was able to manually adjust the VSync but thought it was a little weird. Is this an issue with the native resolution?
Menu is 240p so that could be it. Gameplay is 480i though.
Laevateinn
Member
I guess I didn't need to ask about resolution anyway since it has a 15 KHz light on it 
. This is the first game I've seen it happen with and everything but my Famicom is connected via JP-21 or old-school (Japanese?) PC monitor cable. I wonder what about VF2 triggered it. It also happened during gameplay until I adjusted the monitor knobs.
Would it being 480i explain the flickering?
. This is the first game I've seen it happen with and everything but my Famicom is connected via JP-21 or old-school (Japanese?) PC monitor cable. I wonder what about VF2 triggered it. It also happened during gameplay until I adjusted the monitor knobs.Would it being 480i explain the flickering?
No downgrade as long as its through one of those powered RGB to YUV converters. No lag or anything either. Use it for my SNES, Genesis, N64, Saturn, NES (with Baph mod that works great).
Noisepurge
Member
a 14" PVM is quite good if you can play it relatively close. And it has the compact nature of being able to be shoved into a closet or just being kept on the corner of a table without taking up the insanity X insanity X insanity that a 20" BVM takes ;D
I have one on regular standby in my "retro corner" at the end of one of the couches,
I've found that 20'' is my sweet spot when it comes to gaming. Granted, there's really no PVM's larger than that available but once I tried a 25'' Panasonic CRT and even that was too big since my gaming couch is relatively close to the monitor. Current 20 inch PVM is the best for me.
theSlacker
Member
I still want an XM29 for the novelty of the bigger screen, but I think I would agree with you that 20" is the sweet spot. Hard to really say though since options are so limited.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Thanks guys! With this much of a resounding recommendation I had to contact him. Super excited to be getting this stuff done, and thanks to the community for help finding a quality modder!
speedlolita
Member
Aye. I think knowing how to work basic modifications is an invaluable tool in this sort of hobby.
geniusbits
Member
The ~$50 powered converter you can find on eBay or Amazon is good and doesn't introduce any lag. To my eyes it doesn't downgrade the picture compared to RGB through the Framemeister to my HDTV, but that might be in the eye of the beholder. One problem they can have is messing with the chroma levels so that the image may appear more green, or more blue, or w/e than it is meant to. You can easily open the unit up with a screw driver and manually turn the pots to adjust those levels. Mine looks ok but I want to eventually throw up the color test pattern and adjust using that. Apparently they can fail after a lot of use as well, I don't know how fixable they are, but they are just $50 so if it lasts for several years that's a pretty good deal.
Basically if you have another power outlet to spare and don't mind a device that could *possible* require some tinkering to get just right I believe it's the best option for playing consoles with only RGB output on a consumer CRT in North America.
Yes, converting RGB to Component is quite easy, electronically speaking, and is a theoretically lossless, lagless process.
You only need to be aware that the $50 box isn't an upscaler, it will output whatever the RGB resolution was. Many modern LCD TVs aren't happy with 240p and will refuse to display anything. However if you have a CRT TV with Component in, then you will get the same image quality as on a European CRT TV set with RGB Scart.
Also, light gun games in RGB, yay!
You only need to be aware that the $50 box isn't an upscaler, it will output whatever the RGB resolution was. Many modern LCD TVs aren't happy with 240p and will refuse to display anything. However if you have a CRT TV with Component in, then you will get the same image quality as on a European CRT TV set with RGB Scart.
Also, light gun games in RGB, yay!
RadarScope1
Member
Cheers, thanks all. My Panny plasma TV displays PS1 games via PS2/component. That means it accepts a 240p signal, right?
I really want a 20" PVM but getting one where I am has been impossible so far. The only option I have right now is potentially a 14" but I'm not sure if I'm going to bother since it's so small.
At the same time, it's literally the best thing I can get right now and have been able to get for years.
Thats how I tested mine.
14" PVMs are really nice. I just sit close to mine (it's on my desk next to my PC monitor).
I would get the 14 if I were you. Once you're zoned in, you forget the screen size. I played through RE2 N64 on a 14" PVM. Enjoyable experience.
Well I'm still waiting on the seller getting back to me. Someone got to them first but it's been 5 days and they've not showed up for them so apparently if he doesn't show today then they're ours.
It's been a bit of a mess where they were originally advertised as 20" but when we called, found out they were actually 14". Guy says it was a genuine mistake but I'm sure it wasn't and I'm worried about what condition they're in now. If they're in good condition I'll probably pick them up as I don't have a choice.
It's been a bit of a mess where they were originally advertised as 20" but when we called, found out they were actually 14". Guy says it was a genuine mistake but I'm sure it wasn't and I'm worried about what condition they're in now. If they're in good condition I'll probably pick them up as I don't have a choice.
RadarScope1
Member
Actually I'm certain my TV takes 240p. I forgot that I have occasionally tested NES, SNES and Genesis games by plugging composite and s-vid directly into it.
I had an older 1080p LCD TV that "took" 240p signals from S-video and component but "displayed" them as if it had a 480i signal. The TV would show 480i when displaying info about the signal, even though it was from a 240p source.
In any case, the results were really blurry and I wasn't very satisfied with them, I stuck with a CRT until eventually upgrading to the XRGB Mini.
RadarScope1
Member
Yeah, it is definitely sub par. But it does display. The image is blurred, of course, but the lag is .... nearly acceptable. I don't detect any lag when playing PS1 games via PS2/component. Is it possible the move from composite/s-vid to component is doing something different so as to not be as laggy? Maybe it's just my brain playing tricks on me I can certainly detect some lag via composite but not so much via component. Even then, the composite lag is, as I said, pretty acceptable. I was playing some Mega Man via NES/composite and was surprised. This a 2008 plasma BTW.
Basically what I am hoping is that I can clean up the IQ with RGB converted to component and live with (what seems to be) a very minimal amount of lag. Meanwhile I have a CRT in my basement and access to some JVC pro monitor CRTs. I will need to get RGB out of any consoles to make the most of that monitor anyway. An extra $50 for a RGB-to-component conveter would allow me to toss maybe one console at a time onto my living room plasma. Then when I can get a Framemeister, I will have all the RGB stuff ready to plug into it for the best living room experience.
Basically what I am hoping is that I can clean up the IQ with RGB converted to component and live with (what seems to be) a very minimal amount of lag. Meanwhile I have a CRT in my basement and access to some JVC pro monitor CRTs. I will need to get RGB out of any consoles to make the most of that monitor anyway. An extra $50 for a RGB-to-component conveter would allow me to toss maybe one console at a time onto my living room plasma. Then when I can get a Framemeister, I will have all the RGB stuff ready to plug into it for the best living room experience.
parappatherapper
Member
Can anyone help me to identify decent model numbers I should be looking for when trying to find a decent retro TV. I don't want to spend too much but a 20" Trinitron would be ideal. I am hooking up PS1 , Master System , Mega Drive, SNES etc so assume I need one with RGB / Component.
I am in the UK if that changes anything!
I am in the UK if that changes anything!
NormalFish
Banned
I'd just look for a consumer CRT with RGB SCART connections and a decent picture (geometry/color, basically). You're already ahead of NA. You don't really need component for anything pre-ps2, and even PS2 games are mostly 480i anyway, so you can use SCART.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
Can anybody point me in the direction of a good test pattern or guide in adjusting the levels as you're describing? I think I may definitely need some configuring:
Image on left is composite, Image on right is RGB, but as you can see, it's overly blue/green. However...
EDIT: This looks a bit blue/green saturated, too...
Any ideas?
This is the converter I'm using: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004XSSDPO/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Ouch really? Our last family CRT had options for 50Hz, 100Hz, and Progressive, and it looked amazing with 480p.
Kinda wish we still had it actually. At least until I manage to find a 480p compatible PVM or XM29.
If you open up your converter, there should be three little pots that you can adjust the red, green and blue values with, using a screwdriver.
Edit: Check out 240p test suite to help with your calibration.
Have you tried different games? Had a dirty cart last year that caused my N64 to turn on, but no video/audio. Other games worked fine. Took the problem game apart, gave it a good clean, and haven't had any issues since.
geniusbits
Member
Check out this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hs9JWcTqvYk
My suggestion would be to either use an actual color test pattern such as the one in the 240p test suite http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/240p_test_suite#Color_Bars or if you don't have access to that you can use one of those games as a reference. I haven't found a good resource teaching which pots do what and how much to turn them, that is something you might just have to figure out on your own. You could label or mark them with a super fine marker when you figure out what each one does.
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