geniusbits
Member
Has anyone noticed the Dreamcast 240p test suite link is the same file as the Wii one? Is that a mistake?
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Yeah, tried a few different ones. Cleaned the contacts on both the N64 and the carts, too. No dice.
Sony HDM-20E1U
www.ebay.com/itm/191780469515
HDVS. I've never heard of this before. Looks like the standard 20" BVM, except with a fixed widescreen bevel... and possibly HD? This would precede the BVM-D's by several years.
There's a 28" HDM-2830 model further down in this PDF. Some Googling seems to indicate this was only 480p and 1080i? And there was a 38" version... that monster must've weighed over 400 lbs. Must be older sets.
www.ebay.com/itm/191780469515
HDVS. I've never heard of this before. Looks like the standard 20" BVM, except with a fixed widescreen bevel... and possibly HD? This would precede the BVM-D's by several years.
There's a 28" HDM-2830 model further down in this PDF. Some Googling seems to indicate this was only 480p and 1080i? And there was a 38" version... that monster must've weighed over 400 lbs. Must be older sets.
geniusbits
Member
I saw that listing, it says that it's "not for retro gamers." I take this to mean that it doesn't do 15khz. That would probably be a great choice for Dreamcast, Xbox, Wii etc. though.
Yeah, they all seem to be 480p/1080i. Someone in the shmups forums got the 38" model and posted a video. 400 lbs! Four guys and a horse trailer to transport that beast!
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1115058#p1115058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvX_yWdltiM
I wish he had put a 20" CRT next to it to really get a feel of how massive it is. The standard BVM screen is like one-third the size.
From shmups:
Explains quite a bit.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=1115058#p1115058
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvX_yWdltiM
I wish he had put a 20" CRT next to it to really get a feel of how massive it is. The standard BVM screen is like one-third the size.
From shmups:
Explains quite a bit.
I thought you were joking about the horse box, jesus christ!
Bet Blu-Rays look better on that, than any flatscreen on the market today!
I recently moved my Naomi Universal cabinet that has a 29" CRT, myself, and I had the very real fear of my body being found crushed underneath it. At least it has casters. I can't imagine moving one of those widescreen CRTs. The worst part, is that the weight is so dense yet the footprint is relatively small, so it's hard for the necessary number of people to have enough real estate to grab on to it. Then there is the issue of said group making it through a doorway...
sixteen-bit
Member
CRT life: make friends with a power lifter
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
I'm starting to lose hope on the CRT front. I was hoping for a nice CRT in the 13"ish range for my NES, SNES, and future Famicom, but after exhausting every Thrift Shop in the area I've come up with pretty much nothing.
I'm guessing I'll have to settle for something a bit more off-brand than I was hoping for.
I'm guessing I'll have to settle for something a bit more off-brand than I was hoping for.
speedlolita
Member
Isn't it the case that EDTV/HD CRT TVs have the same flaws as LCD sets in that they have internal scalers which add latency? Well, maybe not EDTV - isn't that just support for 480p?
RadarScope1
Member
Get something cheap now and keep looking. It will pop up.
elmalloc
Member
For playing gamecube, is the best advice for a plasma TV to use Gamecube component cables directly to the TV?
I read the Framemeister has sub-par component input handling.
Do all Gamecube games output 480p?
I read about a "GC-Video" mod that gave the Gamecube 480p output over HDMI. Should I wait for that (I read that it's "as good" as the gamecube component video output, the component cable is $200-250 on Ebay).
Is there a chance an upcoverter with 1080p will be built in, or is there no purpose? Do modern day TVs work well upconverting 480p cleanly with minimal lag?
Thanks!
I read the Framemeister has sub-par component input handling.
Do all Gamecube games output 480p?
I read about a "GC-Video" mod that gave the Gamecube 480p output over HDMI. Should I wait for that (I read that it's "as good" as the gamecube component video output, the component cable is $200-250 on Ebay).
Is there a chance an upcoverter with 1080p will be built in, or is there no purpose? Do modern day TVs work well upconverting 480p cleanly with minimal lag?
Thanks!
speedlolita
Member
End of the day, a CRT is a CRT. I guess you're probably American if you're specifically after a PVM but most RGB enabled CRT here in Europe give a rather lovely image - compared to any s-vhs or composite image at least.
No, though certain ones that couldn't before can through Nintendon't.
Guy at that shmups link said Bluray looks flawless on the giant HDM.
That huge CRT has large handles coming from the bottom which I guess makes it easier for a team (lol) to carry it. 20" alone is really hard to carry unless you're large or fit. I carried a PVM and an even heavier BVM up several fights and had to use every ounce of strength and will. The BVM was actually a little easier because of the sturdy handles that come out of the sides.
My 17" CRT is both a lot lighter, compact and easier to handle than the 20" Sony pro monitors... and the screensize tradeoff is not bad at all. Simultaneously the screen is significantly larger than 14" PVM. That may be because the Sony screens are actually 13" and 19" (I think, not entirely sure). Underscores when I earlier said there should have been more of these CRTs in the 15-17" range.
That huge CRT has large handles coming from the bottom which I guess makes it easier for a team (lol) to carry it. 20" alone is really hard to carry unless you're large or fit. I carried a PVM and an even heavier BVM up several fights and had to use every ounce of strength and will. The BVM was actually a little easier because of the sturdy handles that come out of the sides.
My 17" CRT is both a lot lighter, compact and easier to handle than the 20" Sony pro monitors... and the screensize tradeoff is not bad at all. Simultaneously the screen is significantly larger than 14" PVM. That may be because the Sony screens are actually 13" and 19" (I think, not entirely sure). Underscores when I earlier said there should have been more of these CRTs in the 15-17" range.
I've read about this in regards to some consumer sets (digital scaling/processing?) but it's never come up as being an issue with HD pro monitors. I have not noticed any lag at 480p on my CRT but I haven't really been looking out for it either. A good test may be Super Mario World VC in 480p. I could try that out soon. I also don't have any 720p inputs connected to it at the moment but Wii U over component could be interesting... maybe NES Remix will finally not handle like crap?
Are you ruling out ebay? I think a lot of places don't accept CRT donations anymore so that may be why you're having a tough time. I went down the thrift shop route early on and gave up.
geniusbits
Member
Yes and no, if you hook up something that puts out the native resolution to an LCD there is still some input due to the nature of the technology, whereas a 480p CRT shouldn't have any lag from a 480p source.
I'm jealous, I want that card, though my PEXHDCAP is still doing fine for the most part.
RadarScope1
Member
geniusbits has a good point about thrift stores not accepting CRTs. NOLA, you should see if there are any computer or electronics recycling centers in the area. They might be a better source.
Who says you can't feel like you're in the game using composite?
i'm laughing and about to cry at the same time.
NormalFish
Banned
Still the funniest thing about that segment is the guy just casually saying "Sure, we're going the wrong way but you get the point" lol
Is there any way for a modern PC to output NTSC/PAL for use on an old CRT?
By a USB adapter or PCI-E card?
I used to do it with old GPUs with TV-Out but is was never quite right.
I know it's the reverse of what this thread is about, sorry, but I thought it's the best place to ask.
By a USB adapter or PCI-E card?
I used to do it with old GPUs with TV-Out but is was never quite right.
I know it's the reverse of what this thread is about, sorry, but I thought it's the best place to ask.
It depends on the technology. Many HD CRT, especially consumer TVs, have a somewhat fixed horizontal scan rate allowing them only to display natively 480p, 720p and 1080i, and need to upscale / deinterlace 240p and 480i. But some monitors have a fully variable horizontal scan rate, and they can display any resolution between 240p and 1080i natively, without upscaling. A 480p CRT EDTV will most likely be stuck in 480p though.
This is my very limited experience. I've dealt with a CRT HDTV that had to upscale 240p and 480i, and I've checked the specs of a professional monitor (can't remember the name) and it was able to display anything natively. The HD CRT is a bit funky with 240p sources, but is glorious with the Wii, Xbox, and PS2. I haven't checked more modern consoles yet.
Just make sure to like whatever your youtube/twitch/whatever is.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
I should look into one of these. I'm not really happy with my El Gato at all.
I have a Framemeister atm what would be a good companion capture card for those expereienced?
i was in a similar situation with an Avermedia card. got fed up with the nonsense and pulled the trigger since i had some spare cash in paypal.
nateify
Member
The USB3HDCAP is the Startech branded version of the XCapture-1, it can record lossless 1080p at 60fps over USB 3.0. I think you'll need to be on an Intel chipset or else it gets fussy, or maybe that was just Blackmagic... Either way, if you decide to get one, you can use AmarecTV to record with the x264 codec
It's also recommended to forcefully load the Micomsoft August 2015 drivers onto the USB3HDCAP, it fixes a few bugs.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
Yeah, I was with them previously and their card caused my computer BSOD's which got me to try out the el gato in the first place.
Alright thanks for the advise! Since this one is USB 3.0 I could also use with the laptop so that helps.
Can't say if there is any, but I can say that I'm working towards a solution.
Currently I'm programming a software video signal generator for PAL/NTSC/XYZ
(partially running on PC already) for another project of mine. To exactly
match the timings for PAL/NTSC I've started to re-implement the signal
generator on a (µC) microcontroller (early stage of development). I want to
use this µC to drive CRTs on my own for building my own Retro CRT/TV sets
where you have sort of a small CRT powered by a small computer/µC using
software simulated video open for experimentation or just for the joy of it.
The µC video signal generator will find its way back to the PC for outputting
correctly timed PAL/NTSC video from PC.
geniusbits
Member
That was Mega not me! I will add though that if you really care and are willing to put in the time and effort there are many avenues to try. I recently checked out a site govdeals.com where they liquidate stuff from schools and hospitals and universities etc. and saw that in my area a couple of years ago someone bought 2 NEC XM29s for like $15. At least it said auction ended and that was the price. If you just imagine to yourself that there are many CRTs, both pro and consumer, in good condition sitting around, you realize it's that not everyone knows there are people out there that want them or they just don't want to be bothered with it. So eBay is good because it concentrates information, as well as CList to a lesser extent, but sometimes you have to go looking yourself. Look for alt sites like govdeals with auctions in your area, if you are not near a major metro area you might end up being the only bidder for a perfect condition pro monitor like the NEC I mentioned above. If you really want to push your sleeves up and get into it you could gather a list of the professional video and broadcast companies in your area, as well as hospitals and universities that do biomedical research, and start calling them. I saw a PVM 14N5U in a room I had worked at for several years and didn't realize what it was until reading this thread. Then there are electronics recycling places, I had a friend that worked at one of those and he came up with this hair-brained scheme to take old electronics and chemically remove the gold from boards and circuits when the gold price was shooting up really high about 4 years ago. Things are out there, and eBay, CList and thrift stores are just the easy beginning.
Productions studios, hospitals and recycling centers have been my advice. Call people, visit places, etc. Also get creative with ebay searches and expand search criteria beyond "sony pvm/bvm".
I'd be careful about the government auction sites. The popular ones that show up at the top of Google are owned by one private company that buys up all the government and military surplus and sells it to the public. They're the only game in town (the country) so they seem to get away with really shady behavior. Look up all the negative reviews about people saying the auctions are rigged by company employees to maximize final dollar amounts, not getting what they paid for, getting banned from the site on a whim, major hassles picking up stuff from bases, etc.
I'd be careful about the government auction sites. The popular ones that show up at the top of Google are owned by one private company that buys up all the government and military surplus and sells it to the public. They're the only game in town (the country) so they seem to get away with really shady behavior. Look up all the negative reviews about people saying the auctions are rigged by company employees to maximize final dollar amounts, not getting what they paid for, getting banned from the site on a whim, major hassles picking up stuff from bases, etc.
elmalloc
Member
Damn, the picture on this one looks nice, not really suitable for retro since it's 16x9 though.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-HDM-20...469515?hash=item2ca701bb0b:g:aV0AAOSw~otWeEtc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SONY-HDM-20...469515?hash=item2ca701bb0b:g:aV0AAOSw~otWeEtc
It's perfectly suitable. Games won't appear stretched just because it's a widescreen display. There's usually a 16:9 button to switch back and forth.
In a way 16:9 is actually preferable for 4:3 gaming because you don't have to adjust left/right overscan between different consoles and games. All the variation is why I have several presets on my BVM depending on what I'm playing.
But the reason you probably don't want that monitor is the lack of 240p.
In a way 16:9 is actually preferable for 4:3 gaming because you don't have to adjust left/right overscan between different consoles and games. All the variation is why I have several presets on my BVM depending on what I'm playing.
But the reason you probably don't want that monitor is the lack of 240p.
How does having multiple presets work on a P/BVM? Is there a way to easily save/recall them (thinking about key-shortcuts)?
I ask because - on a CRT TV - I have to manually adjust the horizontal size, through service menu, every time I play a specific console. Not a huge deal, I'm just curious about it.
The BVM has 90 configurable channels which you can change at the press of a button on the control unit.
cE9s4PtIH6BR-Y(,QisQ~~60_1.JPG)
You can name them and assign properties like which input card, which connectors on the card, and which type of input signal the channel should be using (RGB, Component, NTSC Composite, etc., assuming it's supported on both ends). You can select sync type, INT or EXT. You can set whether a channel uses 16:9 or 4:3 in under/overscan. You can't have completely different alignment settings for each, they're shared across all channels. The setting that can vary is horizontal alignment. On the 20G1, it's a setting called H PHASE. On 20F1, it's H PHASE and SAD H POSITION... not sure how they differ.
You can name them and assign properties like which input card, which connectors on the card, and which type of input signal the channel should be using (RGB, Component, NTSC Composite, etc., assuming it's supported on both ends). You can select sync type, INT or EXT. You can set whether a channel uses 16:9 or 4:3 in under/overscan. You can't have completely different alignment settings for each, they're shared across all channels. The setting that can vary is horizontal alignment. On the 20G1, it's a setting called H PHASE. On 20F1, it's H PHASE and SAD H POSITION... not sure how they differ.
theSlacker
Member
My guess is that it's impossible to have full alignment presets or otherwise the options would be there. Can't say for sure but I don't think what a monitor does to make horizontal adjustments is the same as vertical adjustments.
Possibly related but in Arcade OSD (CRT Emudriver in Windows), you can adjust horizontal geometry in the resolution presets easy enough. If you mess with vertical geometry, it screws with the frequency and causes high pitched squeal and potentially permanent damage.
Possibly related but in Arcade OSD (CRT Emudriver in Windows), you can adjust horizontal geometry in the resolution presets easy enough. If you mess with vertical geometry, it screws with the frequency and causes high pitched squeal and potentially permanent damage.
My mom called me, to tell me she picked up a package for me at the PO Box (we share a PO Box). Inside was my Waka Up Scan Converter. Originally came out in the mid-90's for use with the O.G PS1 or as we called it back then, the PSX. It's basically an XRGB just for PlayStation consoles.
Went to her house with my PS2 mini in tow, to school my 12y/o niece on the perks of using such a device vs composite for retro consoles. Long story short, the only easily accessible vga compatible display was the parent's 70" Vizio from a few Black Fridays ago. For some reason the damn TV wouldn't center the image and the input lag was atrocious. Luckily it was only the shitty Vizio (although the convergence on my GDM ain't looking so hot either).
Where are you located?
My mom called me, to tell me she picked up a package for me at the PO Box (we share a PO Box). Inside was my Waka Up Scan Converter. Originally came out in the mid-90's for use with the O.G PS1 or as we called it back then, the PSX. It's basically an XRGB just for PlayStation consoles.
Went to her house with my PS2 mini in tow, to school my 12y/o niece on the perks of using such a device vs composite for retro consoles. Long story short, the only easily accessible vga compatible display was the parent's 70" Vizio from a few Black Fridays ago. For some reason the damn TV wouldn't center the image and the input lag was atrocious. Luckily it was only the shitty Vizio (although the convergence on my GDM ain't looking so hot either).
I've always been curious about this little device. Always used to see it in eBay listings back in the day. Didn't understand the concept, but thought there would be a good use for it. Here's a vid CRTcade did on it:
https://youtu.be/KhLjo2nNz7U
Edit: Btw, RedSquare, your first two pics aren't working on my end.....
My mom called me, to tell me she picked up a package for me at the PO Box (we share a PO Box). Inside was my Waka Up Scan Converter. Originally came out in the mid-90's for use with the O.G PS1 or as we called it back then, the PSX. It's basically an XRGB just for PlayStation consoles.
Went to her house with my PS2 mini in tow, to school my 12y/o niece on the perks of using such a device vs composite for retro consoles. Long story short, the only easily accessible vga compatible display was the parent's 70" Vizio from a few Black Fridays ago. For some reason the damn TV wouldn't center the image and the input lag was atrocious. Luckily it was only the shitty Vizio (although the convergence on my GDM ain't looking so hot either).
It's wild that there aren't more first party devices out there for upscaling old consoles. Then again, I suppose we upscale folk are a niche audience.
Alright so I picked up 3 PVMs of the following models:
144QM
14M4E
1450QM
We're getting colour on the 144QM but not on the others. The menu is showing them as being in B/W mode but I can't figure out how to get it into colour/RGB. I've been looking for a service menu but anything I've found doesn't seem to get me into it.
All of them also aren't filling the screen both horizontally and vertically but I'm assuming that again once I get into a service menu I should be able to make the changes there. I'm completely new to PVMs so anyone with experience in those models that can help is much appreciated.
144QM
14M4E
1450QM
We're getting colour on the 144QM but not on the others. The menu is showing them as being in B/W mode but I can't figure out how to get it into colour/RGB. I've been looking for a service menu but anything I've found doesn't seem to get me into it.
All of them also aren't filling the screen both horizontally and vertically but I'm assuming that again once I get into a service menu I should be able to make the changes there. I'm completely new to PVMs so anyone with experience in those models that can help is much appreciated.
Well, if 14M4E functions the same as my 20M4E, you can go to the service mode by first pressing MENU/EXIT, then ENTER + DEGAUSS at the same time.
Shin Johnpv
Member
I asked in the PCE appreciation thread, but didn't get an answer so thought I would ask here. I'm getting a PCE Duo but it's not coming with an AC adaptor and I was wondering if the one from my US TG16 would work with it?
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