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[IrishNinja]

CRT is up, lookin' good!

can anyone link me on monoprice to an RCA/red & white splitter? ive got the out ends from that SCART to YUV breakaway i bought, was hoping for something to let me plug sound into the receiver, as well as the CRT itself, so i'd have both options...i forget if these things kill/damped the audio sound too terribly much, or if you just have to turn them up a bit more.

 

[Vespa]

I just received the Key Digital KD-CTCA2 transcoder and have to say how disappointed I am; on one hand there's no desynchs with rapid switching to bright white like there is with the Mayflash cable or the fake ebay scaler I have, but on the other hand the image has some bad chroma shift particulary on bright whites...and now the thing has died on me!

Next up the Lenkeng LKV7600 transcoder, Fudoh from hazard city seemed to think it was okay.

 

[Madao]

If I had an everdrive or gameshark I would do direct captures of this!

heh, i have both of those. in theory i could do all possible combinations.

 

[Rich!]

right, I need advice.

I've always wanted a BVM - and I've just come across one.

It's a 17" JVC. TM1750PN-S. RGB and component input. 550 lines horizontal. It's £60, but I have to drive two hours to get it.

Here's the manual: https://cvp.com/pdf/jvc_tm1750pn.pdf

Is it worth it? If so, I'm definitely going.

 

[Khaz]

I don't understand how you input RGB / Component in it.

 

[Rich!]

I don't understand how you input RGB / Component in it.

Easily.

SCART to BNC.

https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc

 

[Khaz]

SCART to BNC.

Of course, what I mean is where do you put those BNC?
[edit] nevermind, the blurry picture made me think the right connectors were all outputs, but they weren't.

 

[Rich!]

Of course, what I mean is where do you put those BNC?

Where it says RGB/component.

Literally right next to the black screw on the left hand side. See those four inputs that look like satellite plugs? There.

Anyhow...should I get it? It's gotta be good with 240p right?!

 

[4444244]

Anyhow...should I get it? It's gotta be good with 240p right?!

Good? PVM/BVM monitors are the best display devices for 240p.

 

[Rich!]

Good? PVM/BVM monitors are the best display devices for 240p.

Well yeah

Oh man I'm so excited about this thing. I've made sure the seller knows it's mine and no one else's!

Gonna be amazing to get my Famicom Jr working on it once modded!

 

[entremet]

So those beautiful glass start switcher from RetroRGB only appear once in a while?

 

[Shin Johnpv]

So those beautiful glass start switcher from RetroRGB only appear once in a while?

They've only done one pre-order for them and then sold the like small handful of leftovers that had been saved in case any were destroyed in shipping. They say they're going to do another batch at some point.

 

[entremet]

They've only done one pre-order for them and then sold the like small handful of leftovers that had been saved in case any were destroyed in shipping. They say they're going to do another batch at some point.

I guess I gotta set a Twitter alert or something. I missed out. I'm still building my RGB set up, so I have time.

 

[Rich!]

Oh man I'm so excited about this bvm

I bet it's going to be amazing. I guess it's good I got that CRT for free at least

 

[Shin Johnpv]

I guess I gotta set a Twitter alert or something. I missed out. I'm still building my RGB set up, so I have time.

If you follow RetroRGB on facebook or twitter he usually posts info there. It's about 215 bucks if I remember right. The last pre-order they had up for a week, personally just couldn't swing it at the time.

 

[Vespa]

Oh man I'm so excited about this bvm

I bet it's going to be amazing. I guess it's good I got that CRT for free at least

Already looking forward to you posting pics!

Did the seller mention how many hours it had clocked up?

 

[entremet]

If you follow RetroRGB on facebook or twitter he usually posts info there. It's about 215 bucks if I remember right. The last pre-order they had up for a week, personally just couldn't swing it at the time.

That's steep haha.

Gives me time to save at least.

 

[Rich!]

Already looking forward to you posting pics!

Did the seller mention how many hours it had clocked up?

No...I'm not sure if that is easily attainable info. Is it? And how important is it?

He has more than one so I can always choose.

 

[Vespa]

The scart hunter guy was saying how important the hours clocked on a crt was to how sharp the image would be, although this was to do with consumer crts but I guess it would apply to PVM/BVMs too.

 

[Timu]

heh, i have both of those. in theory i could do all possible combinations.

You should do it.

 

[Rich!]

Already looking forward to you posting pics!

Did the seller mention how many hours it had clocked up?

The scart hunter guy was saying how important the hours clocked on a crt was to how sharp the image would be, although this was to do with consumer crts but I guess it would apply to PVM/BVMs too.

Ahh yeah makes sense. Well, when I get there I'll simply take the one with the best condition and least amount of hours.

And yep, I'll post photos of course! Well...I won't have a scart to BNC adapter yet so it'll be composite to begin with!

 

[Beer Monkey]

The scart hunter guy was saying how important the hours clocked on a crt was to how sharp the image would be, although this was to do with consumer crts but I guess it would apply to PVM/BVMs too.

I have two internally identical montitors, one has 100 hours one has 15,000 hours.

The 100 hour one is sharper.

I prefer the 15,000 hour one, as the 100 hour one is way sharper the black "scan lines" are twice as wide as the actual scanlines, creating an exaggerated look.

240p on the left, 480p on the right (same monitor)

Classic gaming never looked like that. I'm around 50 years old and have always gamed.

 

[Rich!]

I have two internally identical montitors, one has 100 hours one has 15,000 hours.

The 100 hour one is sharper.

I prefer the 15,000 hour one, as the 100 hour one is way sharper the black "scan lines" are twice as wide as the actual scanlines, creating an exaggerated look.

240p on the left, 480p on the right (same monitor)

Classic gaming never looked like that. I'm around 50 years old and have always gamed.

Ah awesome.

So you'd say it's a good buy, but actually being a bit more worn is maybe preferable?

 

[eEK!]

Ah awesome.

So you'd say it's a good buy, but actually being a bit more worn is maybe preferable?

I've always heard that lower operation time is better as CRTs will develop colour and geometry issues after extended use.

 

[Peltz]

It's such a subjective thing. Some people like it sharp, others don't. Some people like thick black lines, others want to barely see any scanlines effect at all.

Age is just another factor in the moving target for each person and each setup. That's why CRTs are so cool. They all display games so differently.... Even two sets that are the same model will display games differently.

There really is no universally ideal monitor out there.

 

[Rich!]

Yeah I'm not too fussed.

Whatever happens, it will still be the greatest retro gaming crt I've ever owned.

 

[Vespa]

How many lines does that monitor have, Beer Monkey?

I think your JVC is 550 lines, Rich, I think the higher the number the darker/thicker the lines?

Some exciting stuff going on over at shmups, the GCVideo board being used on a Wii!

 

[NormalFish]

So I got my mixer. Its pretty fantastic. Being able to actually hear all the intricacies of the tunes is great. G Darius' soundtrack is so fucking cool.

I think your JVC is 550 lines, Rich, I think the higher the number the darker/thicker the lines?

Uh oh. We're going down this hole again.

 

[Vespa]

So I got my mixer. Its pretty fantastic. Being able to actually hear all the intricacies of the tunes is great. G Darius' soundtrack is so fucking cool.
Uh oh. We're going down this hole again.

Ahh I don't know too much about the lines, it was something I casually read on here. Is it something that's more subjective? Happy to learn more about it or hear your opinion.

 

[Rich!]

How many lines does that monitor have, Beer Monkey?

I think your JVC is 550 lines, Rich, I think the higher the number the darker/thicker the lines?

Some exciting stuff going on over at shmups, the GCVideo board being used on a Wii!

Yeah, 550 lines.

So what does that mean in terms of 240p content? Big gaps between the scanlines? Anyone got any image examples?

I'm like, a novice at bvm stuff.

 

[NormalFish]

Ahh I don't know too much about the lines, it was something I casually read on here. Is it something that's more subjective? Happy to learn more about it or hear your opinion.

no, no. I'm totally with you. Higher TVL = larger scanlines. However, beer monkey is particularly anal about the subject, as I learned last time I made that claim lol.

Yeah, 550 lines.

So what does that mean in terms of 240p content? Big gaps between the scanlines? Anyone got any image examples?

I'm like, a novice at bvm stuff.

550 is plenty for 240p. For 480p (though I don't know if it can display it), that might be a tad low, but it can still display it fine.

You'll probably have a relatively soft picture as far as nice CRTs go, but it'll still be way sharper than a consumer set, and you probably won't have any issue unless you go comparing against something with 800+ lines.

 

[Rich!]

no, no. I'm totally with you. Higher TVL = larger scanlines. However, beer monkey is particularly anal about the subject, as I learned last time I made that claim lol.

550 is plenty for 240p. For 480p (though I don't know if it can display it), that might be a tad low, but it can still display it fine.

You'll probably have a relatively soft picture as far as nice CRTs go, but it'll still be way sharper than a consumer set, and you probably won't have any issue unless you go comparing against something with 800+ lines.

Sweet

It does indeed support 480p, but I won't be using that aside from very rare occasions. The only console capable of that I'll be using will be the gamecube - and that will be set up exclusively for game boy player in 240p.

 

[Peltz]

Yeah, 550 lines.

So what does that mean in terms of 240p content? Big gaps between the scanlines? Anyone got any image examples?

I'm like, a novice at bvm stuff.

Scanlines will be nice and thin compared to most broadcast monitors, but still probably more pronounced than what you've seen on most consumer sets.

 

[Rich!]

Scanlines will be nice and thin compared to most broadcast monitors, but still probably more pronounced than what you've seen on most consumer sets.

then that's perfect

awesome! just went ahead and ordered this scart to bnc adapter! Guess I'm going on a long drive in a few days then!

 

[Beer Monkey]

How many lines does that monitor have, Beer Monkey?

Over 800. You can just defocus a monitor if the lines are too sharp for your liking. Sometimes older monitors can be refocused to get some sharpness back. Focus is controlled by potentiometers inside the monitor.

The monitor in question can display 480p, 720p, even 1080p24, so of course the electron beam is very tightly focused!

Focus, not TVL, affects the scan line effect. High TVL allows more horizontal detail inside of the line itself.

 

[dhonk]

Got some direct video capture of Smash Bros with Ultra HDMI De-Blur + Gameshark AA removal.

https://youtu.be/LrtzCo8RlQI

Ultra HDMI into Elgato HD60 Pro, max bitrate 1080p 60fps. Willing to try more games! Noticing theres a lot more PAL codes than NTSC for some reason, lol.

 

[Mega]

Rich, that's not a Sony BVM, although I'm sure it's a sweet pro monitor. Most monitors don't track hours but a few high-end JVCs do. If yours does, you will need to get into the service menu and poke around (not the regular menu).

So there's a problem with the Ultra HDMI N64 that I'm hoping has been or will be fixed with a new firmware update. I enabled the mod's deblur setting, working nicely as expected. Got the APS patch files into the Everdrive for disabling AA in certain games and it did exactly what the MLiG guys showed. The two combined give a nice sharp image... but it NEEDS the scanline filter so it isn't a line doubled, pixelated mess. It really completes the look.

But the scaling is not 1:1 and looks blurry, which sort of undermines the purpose of all this. There IS a sharp pixels/integer scaling option but it disables scanlines and most of the Ultra HDMI's settings (no idea why, it makes no sense to me). Basically, you can't have all the necessary settings turned on at once that would give the optimal picture quality when that's the point of this mod!

Using the dual output of the modded N64, I did a side by side comparison between the N64 S-Video output going to the low-end JVC and the HDMI outputting to high-end JVC HD monitor. The S-video setup still ends up looking clearer and sharper than the fancier setup, especially with the disabled AA enhancement coming through very nicely on the JVC. It may not be completely evident from the pics below but the one above is noticeably better in person.

Stock N64 S-Video on the budget JVC CRT with disabled AA patch

Ultra HDMI on the JVC HD CRT with scanlines enabled, de-blur enabled and disabled AA patch

I tried to test with more games but my rom set isn't No Intro and, even with renaming to match filenames, most of the patch files did not work with the roms. Working on getting the No Intro set.

Does a direct capture device grab a completely raw image without the characteristic of the display? If so, then I am better off snapping pics of the screen. Direct grabs of the dual output setup above would make it seem like the HDMI output is objectively superior.

 

[Timu]

Does a direct capture device grab a completely raw image without the characteristic of the display? If so, then I am better off snapping pics of the screen. Direct grabs of the dual output setup above would make it seem like the HDMI output is objectively superior.

Yes, and this is why it's better to use direct capture for these comparisons. The display has no effect on how it's captured, hence why direct capture only captures directly from the game itself and would show what it would look like overall without being messed with.

This is why I use capture cards, that and youtube vids.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Any places I should keep an eye on other than eBay, Craigslist, and medical supply stores for video monitors?

 

[NormalFish]

Any places I should keep an eye on other than eBay, Craigslist, and medical supply stores for video monitors?

local business auction type things might be good, depending upon where you're located and what business have presence.

 

[Mega]

Thanks, that's good to know. However I don't want to compare raw pixel outputs because it doesn't help me determine anything about my specific displays. N64 PQ is weird and how good it looks depends a lot on the quirks of a particular screen. I've already mentioned how N64 S-Video on my budget JVC kicks the crap out of RGB on a high-end BVM and JVC. And from my observations it even edges out the Ultra HDMI on both my plasma and the previously mentioned high-end JVC.

Before this I was looking at the same RGB N64 signal across several monitors to determine which one displayed it best for general gaming. Again, direct cap would not have served any use there.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

to xrgb mini owners, do you use scanlines in 720p or 1080p mode? for 240p content i mean.

 

[TheWraith]

to xrgb mini owners, do you use scanlines in 720p or 1080p mode? for 240p content i mean.

1080p since the most recent firmware, looks glorious now! I'm using FBX's profiles for those.

 

[NormalFish]

to xrgb mini owners, do you use scanlines in 720p or 1080p mode? for 240p content i mean.

1080p. scanlines are perfectly good with a proper scaling profile, and it's sharper

 

[Timu]

Thanks, that's good to know. However I don't want to compare raw pixel outputs because it doesn't help me determine anything about my specific displays. N64 PQ is weird and how good it looks depends a lot on the quirks of a particular screen. I've already mentioned how N64 S-Video on my budget JVC kicks the crap out of RGB on a high-end BVM and JVC. And from my observations it even edges out the Ultra HDMI on both my plasma and the previously mentioned high-end JVC.

Before this I was looking at the same RGB N64 signal across several monitors to determine which one displayed it best for general gaming. Again, direct cap would not have served any use there.

Direct cap would be interesting when comparing svideo, RGB and HDMI against each other to see which is best though.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

to the guys who have said 1080p for scanlines (im also using FBX profiles)

When i use 4x profiles+scanlines, the scanlines look beautiful, but the display area is TINY on my 50". If i try and increase the image size, i lose scanlines at the top of the image for some reason.

Scanlines in 1080p 5x profile look way, way way too thin.

Any suggestions?

 

[NormalFish]

You can try 720p. I find the scanlines at 1080p with a bit of darkening around the edges looks good. Try messing with the integer scanline options.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

You can try 720p. I find the scanlines at 1080p with a bit of darkening around the edges looks good. Try messing with the integer scanline options.

yeah, ive been at it for hours. Cant find any scanlines that look good to me. The scanlines in the 4x profiles look perfect, the spacing between each line is honestly perfect but the screen image only fills about 1/3 of my tv space (huge black borders on top and bottom still remain)

The scanlines in 5x are spaced way too far apart, and are way too thin . been using 720p and its fine but i just see so many people claim that they are perfect in 1080p mode with those profiles.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

its normal that a 4x profile only fills up a very small section of my display, right?

 

[Peagles]

its normal that a 4x profile only fills up a very small section of my display, right?

Are your zoom settings correct? I seem to remember the same issue and fixed it by zooming... It was awhile back though to be honest.