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[RadarScope1]

Composite. I don't think I've ever played a system on S-Video before.

I see. Your question about the jump in quality is why I was asking. As others said, there's a pretty big gap between composite and s-vid on most hardware, though it does vary. My 1-chip SNES looks great via s-vid on JVC monitor.

I currently have a PS2 s-video cable on order. Currently running that on composite. Will be getting a SNES RGB cable too and upgrading my input on both. I can give my impressions of the upgrade in IQ on both later.

 

[Mega]

Definitely the latter, but it really depends on the system. Genesis over RGB is ridiculously clear, s-video (via a mod) can still have rainbow banding depending on your revision. For N64 the jump going from s-video to RGB is pretty small. PS1 or Saturn or SNES are more clear cases where there's a decent jump but it's nothing crazy.

If I only had s-video (maybe with a CRT that didn't have component) I'd be happy with pretty much everything but Genesis. I've even been running my NESRGB mod over s-video until recently and have been very happy with it.

I fully agree with this. And I'm trying to get a RGB-to-S-video setup going. Does anyone know about RGB to S-Video conversion? I'm looking at this one device but curious about added lag. I have a HDMI to Component converter and it's rather excellent in this regard (no lag that I can feel on my CRT).

I'm looking to converts RGBs to S-video. Would this be a good option? http://www.ambery.com/rgrgtotvcosc.html

Any other converters that do the trick? Added lag should be minimal, right?

For anyone wondering why I would do this... I have most of my consoles feeding RGB into my matrix switch and outputting RGB to various monitors. I wanna hook up my wonderful little S-video monitor to the fourth video output so that it can be utilized by more than just the N64. The converter would go between the switch's BNC output connectors and the monitor's S-video connector. Some games look better on this little monitor than on the sharp and scanline-heavy Sony and JVC pro CRTs, so there are practical reasons for doing this too.

Maybe I also wanna play occasionally with a clean Composite signal for nostalgia. It would be neat to see how superior the Composite signal generated by one of these modern converters will be than the Genesis' hideous native Composite output.

 

[Galdelico]

Trinitron-GAF, is there a way - via service mode too - to always keep the audio out from my external 2.1 set, instead of the TV speakers?
I plugged the set into the red/white connectors on the back of the TV (a KV21FX30B Trinitron Flatscreen) and there is an option - under Sound Adjustment -> Detail Adjustment -> TV Speakers: Off - that allows me to use the external speakers, instead of the TV ones, but every time I turn it off, that resets the setting. Nothing too annoying, just wondering if there's anything I can do to save it to 'always off'.

 

[RadarScope1]

I definitely want to invest in a decent converter for the few times I might want to take my RGB consoles somewhere to play with friends or family.

 

[Kiddy Dong]

For PS2 is it better to use SCART or Component?

I think I'm decided on using SCART for my SFC, as those HDRetrovision cables never seem to be in stock.

Another question is whether or not audio goes through SCART, like in HDMI, or do I need a separate cable for it, like in Component?

Scart is the way to go with PS2, most games are stuck at 480i but one of the Gran Tursimos is capable of 1080i. PS2 has a very clean RGB signal, compared to its sixth gen contemporaries.

 

[Rich!]

Scart is the way to go with PS2, most games are stuck at 480i but one of the Gran Tursimos is capable of 1080i. PS2 has a very clean RGB signal, compared to its sixth gen contemporaries.

GameCube (PAL) has phenomenal rgb output via scart, the best of all three of the gen.

 

[geniusbits]

What would people say is the gaps in quality between RGB, S-Video and Composite?

I mean is it a pretty equal thing

RGB >>>> S-Video >>>> Composite

or more that everything is dramatically better than composite?

eg.

RGB >>> S-Video >>>>>>>>>>>>> Composite

I'll go one step further, when you're playing a game with low resolution 3D textures on a CRT, S-video could be considered better.
I'm not as hardcore about video quality as most here though, and don't notice little patterns or color differences in some games the same way. And I like the low resolution N64 games with textures smeared all over the place, I remember those games very fondly and don't like them getting all pixelated.

 

[blast processed]

GameCube (PAL) has phenomenal rgb output via scart, the best of all three of the gen.

How about the Xbox through scart?

 

[televator]

How about the Xbox through scart?

Nope. It's filtered, badly. I'd say the Xbox has the best component output of the gen though... Assuming you set it to 480p +

 

[Pancakes R Us]

From my experience yesterday hooking up my SNES with S-Video for the first time, it's the latter. Massive improvement on an HDTV with S-Video. I couldn't believe how clear everything was.

Did you connect to HDTV directly from SNES to S-video port, or using something like Framemeister?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Did you connect to HDTV directly from SNES to S-video port, or using something like Framemeister?

Direct. No way I can afford a Framemeister.


It's an old 2009 720p LCD though.

 

[Mega]

I'll go one step further, when you're playing a game with low resolution 3D textures on a CRT, S-video could be considered better.
I'm not as hardcore about video quality as most here though, and don't notice little patterns or color differences in some games the same way. And I like the low resolution N64 games with textures smeared all over the place, I remember those games very fondly and don't like them getting all pixelated.

N64 games aren't pixelated at all, RGB or not. The texture filtering makes sure of that.

It's less cool than the Atari Flashback 2, as it didn't run emulation and you could hack a real cartridge slot into it.

The price tag would be justified if it were an actual NES on a Chip. But this is Nintendo so... nahhh.

Yes, like this(screenshot I took):

So the live area of the PSP output is SD resolution. Damn, that's disappointing. It didn't occur to me that the black area counted as part of the 480p output... I thought it was a shrunken 480p image.

My monitor is 800 TVL with 4:3 content. At widescreen resolutions, there's the expected letterboxing, about a quarter of the screen, making the effective horizontal resolution 600 TVL. The live area of the PSP output however has its own letterboxing and pillarboxing! Using some rough math... the playable area is 340 TVL? That seems about right but my math capability isn't great so maybe someone else would know. 340 lines is a little low to resolve 480 pixels of detailed 3D graphics.

This might explain why the pics I took look underwhelming to me. They were taken at 100 ISO, dialed in manual focus, sharp lens on a tripod. The results are a little fuzzy and lacking definition. It reminds me of DS's low-res panel trying to display complex 3D games.

tl;dr, the PSP's output is not as good as it could be even on a HD CRT. A toggle for that giant black border for people with 480p+ sets would have been nice.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Direct. No way I can afford a Framemeister.


It's an old 2009 720p LCD though.

Thanks. I have an old 2006 720p LCD TV, so I'm hoping it won't look too bad on it.

 

[Galdelico]

Nope. It's filtered, badly. I'd say the Xbox has the best component output of the gen though... Assuming you set it to 480p +

If not, I may suggesto to go S-Video.
I was really surprised to find out how inferior the original XBOX looked in RGB - even using the official cable - compared to the GameCube and the PS2 (still the best RGB picture out of the three consoles of that generation, imo).

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

Thanks. I have an old 2006 720p LCD TV, so I'm hoping it won't look too bad on it.

It seems to me that older sets handle more variable resolutions better. When I had it hooked up with composite it was fuzzy and had rainbow effects. Now it's much crisper and clearer.

 

[Peagles]

Nope. It's filtered, badly. I'd say the Xbox has the best component output of the gen though... Assuming you set it to 480p +

If not, I may suggesto to go S-Video.
I was really surprised to find out how inferior the original XBOX looked in RGB - even using the official cable - compared to the GameCube and the PS2 (still the best RGB picture out of the three consoles of that generation, imo).

The other thing I hate about RGB on Xbox is that I can never get the sound working properly. It's all crackly like the bitrate has been severely reduced. I've got two good quality SCART cables for it and they both sound the same. I've even tried running it through an amp with no luck. I basically never use it on a CRT for this reason.

Maybe I'll just get something to change the end of the component cable into the SCART plug so I can run it through my switch into the PVM that way. I'll have to change the PVM RGB/Component setting when I want to play but at least I'll be able to hear it.

 

[televator]

If not, I may suggesto to go S-Video.
I was really surprised to find out how inferior the original XBOX looked in RGB - even using the official cable - compared to the GameCube and the PS2 (still the best RGB picture out of the three consoles of that generation, imo).

S-vid won't make a difference on Xbox. Basically anything 15khz (interlaced) gets filtered. The component cable and setting it to 480p - 1080i is the only way to bypass it.

The other thing I hate about RGB on Xbox is that I can never get the sound working properly. It's all crackly like the bitrate has been severely reduced. I've got two good quality SCART cables for it and they both sound the same. I've even tried running it through an amp with no luck. I basically never use it on a CRT for this reason.

Maybe I'll just get something to change the end of the component cable into the SCART plug so I can run it through my switch into the PVM that way. I'll have to change the PVM RGB/Component setting when I want to play but at least I'll be able to hear it.

I haven't had that problem, probably because I use the optical cable. JSRF is bumpin'!!

 

[Peagles]

S-vid won't make a difference on Xbox. Basically anything 15khz (interlaced) gets filtered. The component cable and setting it to 480p - 1080i is the only way to bypass it.



I haven't had that problem, probably because I use the optical cable. JSRF is bumpin'!!

My switches have spaces for optical cables, but I don't have anywhere to lead it from there as everything else is just RCA.



Also I have some bad news, I was just at home and heard a very loud bang and something in my retro setup just blew the power out in our house. I've unplugged everything and it seems a power pack and surge board are toast but no idea yet if it managed to damage anything else

 

[Rich!]

Also I have some bad news, I was just at home and heard a very loud bang and something in my retro setup just blew the power out in our house. I've unplugged everything and it seems a power pack and surge board are toast but no idea yet if it managed to damage anything else

Damn, hoping for the best.

This is why I'm glad we have British standard plugs here in the UK (individual fuses in every plug required by law)

If something blows, it ends there. And if it does go further, the entire power is tripped before causing any damage to anything else.

 

[Peagles]

Damn, hoping for the best.

This is why I'm glad we have British standard plugs here in the UK (individual fuses in every plug required by law)

If something blows, it ends there. And if it does go further, the entire power is tripped before causing any damage to anything else.

Thanks man... T_T

I've dismantled everything and found the culprit (an unofficial power adapter). Surge board has some nice scorch marks on it too. The crazy thing is, nothing except a couple of switches was actually ON, just switched on at the wall (though I usually switch it all off at the wall this was the one time I forgot to).

Is that a new standard? I have a few UK plugs in my setup and they don't appear to have that.

I might go through and test everything individually now just to make sure nothing has died.

 

[Rich!]

Is that a new standard? I have a few UK plugs in my setup and they don't appear to have that.

1989

February 1989: BS 1363-3:1989 "13 A plugs socket-outlets and adaptors - Part 3: Specification for adaptors" published. This new standard covers adaptors for use with BS 1363 socket-outlets and includes conversion adaptors (those which accept plugs of a different type), multiway adaptors (those which accept more than one plug, which may or may not be of a different type) and shaver adaptors. All adaptors (except for those accepting not more than two BS 1363 plugs) require to be fused. All sockets, including those to other standards, must be shuttered.

and best of luck to your gear...we already had an xrgb panic that turned out to be OK so lets hope this is the same!

 

[televator]

My switches have spaces for optical cables, but I don't have anywhere to lead it from there as everything else is just RCA.



Also I have some bad news, I was just at home and heard a very loud bang and something in my retro setup just blew the power out in our house. I've unplugged everything and it seems a power pack and surge board are toast but no idea yet if it managed to damage anything else

Bummer in both counts. Hope everything is okay and thankfully it wasn't much worse.

 

[Peagles]

1989



and best of luck to your gear...we already had an xrgb panic that turned out to be OK so lets hope this is the same!

Bummer in both counts. Hope everything is okay and thankfully it wasn't much worse.

Checked everything individually on the other side of the apartment with the new JVC monitor and all is well, so phew!

Now I just need to find a new power adapter for my SFC.

Might go back to surge boards that have individual switches too when I redo my setup shortly.

In other news the Dreamcast (which refused to sync over RGB to either of my PVMs) syncs just fine to the JVC, so that's cool.

I swear the JVC is far less flickery in 480i than my Sonys too which is great!

 

[ShowDog]

I got my new to me old Pioneer Plasma set up and ran some s-video N64 and VGA DC through it. It looks decent enough, but the damn thing is stuck in WIDE mode stretching everything out to 16:9. I went out and bought a universal remote to get into the menu and of course this isn't a menu option. The official remote probably has a zoom button so I'm pretty screwed. The remote is on eBay but will cost almost as much as the damn entire set did just so I can set the aspect ratio to original for all sources

What kind of monster zooms everything to 16:9?

I didn't notice any input lag on N64 but using DC VGA seemed to introduce some (it goes into a special PC mode and nukes most of the display options in the menu) so I don't know if it'll be any use with the DC VGA box anyways, which is a bummer because that was my highest hope for the set. At least it should handle Wii fine as that's a 16:9 system.

 

[Galdelico]

S-vid won't make a difference on Xbox. Basically anything 15khz (interlaced) gets filtered. The component cable and setting it to 480p - 1080i is the only way to bypass it.

I can only talk out from what I see on screen, but it definitely does on my TV (I'm using a Crystal PAL console). Image is way sharper, for instance, you can easily see the patterns on Kasumi's dress in DoA3, whereas they are pretty much lost, in RGB.
Sure, I have to tone down color saturation quite a bit, due to the incresed bleed, but yeah you can tell the difference.

 

[Peagles]

Well I just bought two new power adapters that will suit the model one Mega Drive, so I think I'll swap out the old UK Mega Drive adapter and replace the blown up SFC adapter with these. At least they're slimline and I can plug something in next to them.

Now the hunt for new surge boards begins! Haven't tested my PVMs yet though

 

[Grief.exe]

I got my new to me old Pioneer Plasma set up and ran some s-video N64 and VGA DC through it. It looks decent enough, but the damn thing is stuck in WIDE mode stretching everything out to 16:9. I went out and bought a universal remote to get into the menu and of course this isn't a menu option. The official remote probably has a zoom button so I'm pretty screwed. The remote is on eBay but will cost almost as much as the damn entire set did just so I can set the aspect ratio to original for all sources

What kind of monster zooms everything to 16:9?

I didn't notice any input lag on N64 but using DC VGA seemed to introduce some (it goes into a special PC mode and nukes most of the display options in the menu) so I don't know if it'll be any use with the DC VGA box anyways, which is a bummer because that was my highest hope for the set. At least it should handle Wii fine as that's a 16:9 system.

If you have an IR remote on your phone, you can download custom remote apps that have a good chance of working. You can configure it with any option, including forcing 4:3 if the original had that option.

 

[ShowDog]

If you have an IR remote on your phone, you can download custom remote apps that have a good chance of working. You can configure it with any option, including forcing 4:3 if the original had that option.

Wow, that is a great idea! A buddy with an S4 just happens to be coming by today so I'll give it a shot.

 

[AuthenticM]

Does anyone know the device that makes LCD TVs display made-for-CRT old games perfectly and without input lag? I'm sure I was made aware of it last year on Gaf. People were lauding it as a legendary thing that made these games look and play even better than on old CRTs. I believe it cost several hundred dollars.

I should have bookmarked it.

 

[Grief.exe]

The information is in the op, but it's the XRGB-Mini.

 

[AuthenticM]

The information is in the op, but it's the XRGB-Mini.

Thanks. I saw that but wasn't sure because its website differed from the one in my memories.

 

[Rich!]

Damn my first weekly paycheque at my new job is £400 (£400 per week for 35 hours work and it will double after my probation). And I still have £200 from my last job to be paid next week.

xrgb Mini next Friday here I cooooooooooooome

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Damn my first weekly paycheque at my new job is £400 (£400 per week for 35 hours work and it will double after my probation). And I still have £200 from my last job to be paid next week.

xrgb Mini next Friday here I cooooooooooooome

I think you meant promotion, but probation sounds soooo much funnier.

 

[Grief.exe]

I think you meant promotion, but probation sounds soooo much funnier.

Since it's a new job, he likely does mean probation.

 

[Rich!]

I think you meant promotion, but probation sounds soooo much funnier.

Nope, I meant probation. Probationary period is standard here in the UK for any new job. my last job had a 6 month probation period and at any point they could get rid of me without notice.

In this new job, it's three months - but with two weeks notice if they want to fire me, and after a successful probation period I get a permanent (as in, lifelong) contract at near £30k a year.

Luckily, so far, I'm kicking ass. I don't even need to ask what to do, I just go into work and kick ass. And this job goes far - it's been around in the UK for 200 years and is literally flooded with money. The average salary of a manager is £5k per MONTH (that's $80k. Thats my goal!)

 

[televator]

I can only talk out from what I see on screen, but it definitely does on my TV (I'm using a Crystal PAL console). Image is way sharper, for instance, you can easily see the patterns on Kasumi's dress in DoA3, whereas they are pretty much lost, in RGB.
Sure, I have to tone down color saturation quite a bit, due to the incresed bleed, but yeah you can tell the difference.

I misspoke. It's not that S video won't make a difference. It will make a difference, but not in terms of removing the ugly filter.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

Hey ya'll, just FYI, BeharBros have relisted their Toro for anybody interested in Dreamcast VGA/SCART goodness:

http://retrorgb.com/toro.html

 

[Timu]

Hey ya'll, just FYI, BeharBros have relisted their Toro for anybody interested in Dreamcast VGA/SCART goodness:

http://retrorgb.com/toro.html

480p over scart?

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

yes, both video outputs (Euro SCART/VGA) support all resolutions (240p, 480i, 480p).

 

[Mega]

480p over scart?

Scart is just a cable carrying a signal. I use this to send HD signals up to 1080i and 720p to my switch and CRT (with a BNC adapter cable in the middle).

 

[BocoDragon]

I think people get the idea that SCART can't handle 480p because PAL GameCube supported SCART but couldn't output 480p with any cable.

Maybe more broadly, the rise of 480p went along with the rise of component. Even though SCART could technically do it, the industry didn't support that.

 

[catabarez]

480p over scart?

Hell yeah. Everyone with a Dreamcast needs to get one.

 

[cyborgnumberblue]

For 5 more bucks, you can get the Toro and a cable that makes the box generate scanlines for a VGA input source, as well.

I'm thinking this is a pretty great option for Xbox 360 games at 480p res with scanlines, as opposed to using an Extron Super Emotia (which I tried, building a power supply and all, resulting in a giant bust T_T).

 

[theclaw135]

I think people get the idea that SCART can't handle 480p because PAL GameCube supported SCART but couldn't output 480p with any cable.

Maybe more broadly, the rise of 480p went along with the rise of component. Even though SCART could technically do it, the industry didn't support that.

I'm pretty sure for PAL GameCube, while the component port is fully functional, 480p was individually removed in software from each game. A tedious gesture that only hurt sales by encouraging importing NTSC releases.

 

[Conezays]

Been enjoying my Atari 2600 that arrived over the past couple days; it looks pretty good despite not being in RGB! I really love the wood grain finish. Any others on here who have gotten the RGB mod done? Cheers.

 

[Peagles]

I'm pretty sure for PAL GameCube, while the component port is fully functional, 480p was individually removed in software from each game. A tedious gesture that only hurt sales by encouraging importing NTSC releases.

Yep, I play my NTSC games in 480p on a PAL GC.

Heck you can even force most PAL games now with Swiss anyway so if you have SD Media Launcher or a chip you're good to go. That cable price though lol.

 

[Khaz]

I'm still waiting for it to be available for the 2600jr. One day...

I love the look of the black jr, it fits right in the 90s. So rad, I think I like its look more than any 8 or 16bit console.

The original woodgrain isn't rad, but super classy instead. While you put the black plastic consoles on a modern style shelf, the fat 2600 goes on your bookshelf or next to your console TV.

 

[Timu]

yes, both video outputs (Euro SCART/VGA) support all resolutions (240p, 480i, 480p).

Hell yeah. Everyone with a Dreamcast needs to get one.

Excellent!

 

[Einhandr]

So I'm still sort of confused on a couple things in the RGB world so I need some help. What would I need in order to get 240p consoles to work on something like a LaCie Electron Blue IV?

Edit: Bought an iscan vp20 instead lol

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Been enjoying my Atari 2600 that arrived over the past couple days; it looks pretty good despite not being in RGB! I really love the wood grain finish. Any others on here who have gotten the RGB mod done? Cheers.

I have a 4 switch that I plan on RGB modding in the coming months. Just haven't done it yet. Put the money into a capture card, HDMI splitter, HiDefNES kit, and some extra cables this month instead.