blast processed
Member
I have the XRGB set to output 720P, but my TV is 1080P. Changing to 1080P output cleaned up the scan lines.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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I have the XRGB set to output 720P, but my TV is 1080P. Changing to 1080P output cleaned up the scan lines.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
So how's that HDMI Mini NES announcement sitting over here?
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Can't really comment until we know how they are emulated and what kind of options we'll have.
damn the hd retrovision genesis cable looks great. But I only had a few minutes to mess with it in an awkward position. Need to haul that big ass trinitron out into the living room this weekend, but it's still full of my roommates' dumb crap from when we moved.
I think it'd be fun to grab another Genesis power adapter and hook up both my systems then flip between the component/composite inputs just to see the difference.
We also now have the arcade cabinet we got halfway through building a few years back, it was just rotting in my brother's basement. I built a monster 4 player control panel for it, shit was a nightmare. We already have a video card with an interface for an arcade CRT, just need to FIND one of those. Definitely gonna be my next project once the TV and old consoles are set up.
I think it'd be fun to grab another Genesis power adapter and hook up both my systems then flip between the component/composite inputs just to see the difference.
We also now have the arcade cabinet we got halfway through building a few years back, it was just rotting in my brother's basement. I built a monster 4 player control panel for it, shit was a nightmare. We already have a video card with an interface for an arcade CRT, just need to FIND one of those. Definitely gonna be my next project once the TV and old consoles are set up.
Too early to tell on that Mini-NES. I want one but I'll wait for hands on reviews (emulation, image quality, lag, etc).
These are the cables I bought for my SNES. I think SFC should be the same, you should confirm though.
console -> SCART
SCART -> BNC
Khaz answered the TVL as well, cheers!
As Khaz said, go Scart (Euro).
These are the cables I bought for my SNES. I think SFC should be the same, you should confirm though.
console -> SCART
SCART -> BNC
You're welcome.
FYI, the NES will need to be modded for RGB in case you weren't aware. Informative page on many consoles. If you plan to use composite stuff (please don't though) you'll need an RCA to BNC adapter.
Khaz answered the TVL as well, cheers!
MadClacker
Member
Love the Fresnel reflection towards the edges of the screen. Oh yeah...
Not sure what you're referring to exactly.
I've noticed my TV is duller in colour on the top right corner (just judging from the green lettering for the display options) The left side is a bright green, the top right is a darker, duller green.
I'm debating whether or not to try and seek out a remote for the TV so I can make adjustments, or simply try to get a different TV and keep this one as a form of backup.
I'm actually considering changing out the 27" CRT for a 14" PVM that I have several leads for. Thoughts? I typically sit a couple of feet away from the TV anyway, and mostly play single player games, so I don't really need a large display.
https://solarisjapan.com/products/e...ster-compact-up-scaler-unit-eur-scart-adapter
There's the tax free EU version. Ships from Europe so you don't get hit with a huge import tax fee. It also includes a European scart to mini din adapter and a uk power adapter. So it's definitely worth getting this deal, free shipping too.
But bear in mind Solaris Japan charges based on the current exchange rate. Even today it's gone back up £15 to £315. It'll go down again, but it may also go up. It changes daily.
Edit: oh. Out of stock!! Fuuuuuu
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
It's slightly cooler than those ghetto Atari plug-n-play consoles they sold on grocery store endcaps a few years back. But I suspect that we're not the intended audience for that sort of thing, at all.
What do you guys think of EDTV vs HD plasma sets? I'd like to have a plasma for Dreamcast VGA and component PS2 and Wii. Many early sets can handle RGB ala bnc's also, so double duty for 240p would be a plus but not necessarily a need.
For this use case, what would you think between a Panasonic EDTV Plasma (RGB via bnc's) a Pioneer 720p Plasma, or a Hitachi 720p HD Plasma (RGB via bnc's)? Obviously for general use the Pioneer is going to win but this is retro gaming, and I don't believe it supports RGB outside of the VGA input.
I guess I figure less scaling on an EDTV Plasma might have its benefits?
Edit: I just realized the pioneer does have component RGB with bnc's. The Pioneer it is!
For this use case, what would you think between a Panasonic EDTV Plasma (RGB via bnc's) a Pioneer 720p Plasma, or a Hitachi 720p HD Plasma (RGB via bnc's)? Obviously for general use the Pioneer is going to win but this is retro gaming, and I don't believe it supports RGB outside of the VGA input.
I guess I figure less scaling on an EDTV Plasma might have its benefits?
Edit: I just realized the pioneer does have component RGB with bnc's. The Pioneer it is!
I like it, and think its a good move from Nintendo. And while I might get one, its not really for me since I like original hardware and have tons of carts that wont work with it.
Beer Monkey
Member
It's less cool than the Atari Flashback 2, as it didn't run emulation and you could hack a real cartridge slot into it.
DarkConfidant
Member
Seems good! The SFC is the same when it comes to A/V cords.
I found a SCART PlayStation 1/2 cable on Amazon for around $10. Is there some kind of catch I should be aware of, and opt for the more expensive cable instead?
Modding my NES seems like something I wouldn't feel comfortable attempting just yet. I'm not too fond of the hardware (I would prefer a Famicom or toploading NES) either.
If I don't mod it, is there a better option than just using Composite?
If not, I might just get that Mini Classic this fall (comes out on my bday), or save up for an Analogue NT (if they ever make it available!).
I only play on using probably 480i and 240p signals from systems of PS2 and older.
I'm not sure if those translate to be 480 or 240 lines/under 600 lines.
Is 600 TVL a good thing? What's the standard/norm/optimal resolution?
Sorry I'm such a noob everyone, but I'm thankful for how helpful you've all been.
Shipping it with a Euro-scart adapter is new, i ended up buying mine from japan (and got hit by a heavy import tax lol), but would probably have went with this if they offered euro scart back then.
I'm not sure on the cheaper SCART cables. SCART was never an option in the US so we don't see them. I was investing in the setup so I was willing to pay a little more for well reviewed cables.
I think composite is your only option for NES without modding, could check here: http://retrorgb.com/nesrgb.html. I am planning on testing my NES out via composite just to see how it is (and I haven't modded it). So it's the only option for me right now as well.
480i and 240p are the number of horizontal lines from top to bottom (think rows in Excel). The TVL lines are vertical (Excel columns). 600 is good, my PVM has 450.
I'm still very much a noob to this as well. I can't recommend Retrorgb.com and the My Life in Gaming Series enough as a foundation for learning more. The RGB Guide on RetroRGB is great. A lot of it is covered in the OP in this thread too!
Forget about it. It's just me tinkering around with glass.
Love the Fresnel reflection towards the edges of the screen. Oh yeah...
Edit:
Am working on a sophisticated glass shader (has Fresnel reflection, too!).
"3d" dithering can be hacked out. It's a post-processing effect, usually.
Have people figured out how to do that on all consoles though? Either way, some consoles like the PS2 are a bitch to hack in more advanced ways.
yep, even without tax it works out cheaper.
I'll get one, but not because of anything to do with my love for this thread, hehe.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Obviously I'm on team "I don't need this at all, but I'll get it anyway because COOL"
DarkConfidant
Member
For PS2 is it better to use SCART or Component?
I think I'm decided on using SCART for my SFC, as those HDRetrovision cables never seem to be in stock.
Another question is whether or not audio goes through SCART, like in HDMI, or do I need a separate cable for it, like in Component?
I believe the PS2 doesn’t go above 480p, which would mean SCART is still the better cable. I am not an expert on PS2 RGB though.
Audio does go through SCART.
Khaz' comment still stands inclusive of component as an option.
However, if you already have a component cable it will be close to RGB. It's depends on your setup and what you want. On a 12" screen some may not notice the difference. It is there but people's "image quality threshold" I'll call it, can vary drastically.
You'll need RCA to BNC adapters if you want to connect the YPbPr cables to the PVM BNC connectors.
The HDRetro cables just came out, and quickly sold out. I read somewhere (in here?) they may not make anymore (speculation though at this point I think).
Audio will go through SCART. The SCART-BNC cable I linked to has R, G, B, Sync, and L&R audio. However, keep in mind that PVM you were looking at is mono only (not stereo). So you'll need to figure out something else (e.g. receiver, PC speakers etc) should you want a better audio experience. You can always just connect one channel (L or R) or buy a 2-1 Y connector but you'll still only have the mono sound. Isn't this pandora's box fun to open!
edit, looking at the manual again, the audio inputs are mini's so you'll need an adapter from standard RCA type audio cables to a headphone jack connector should you plan to run audio through the PVM.
for me, i'll pass.
the NES era was before my time (i started with late SNES/early N64) so i don't really have any desire to play those games.
if it's a really good setup and plays well, i might buy it just to support the good job and the possibility of getting the same kind of thing with SNES and N64 games but, if it sucks, i'll pass definitely.
It has no slot to play your real games on and I doubt it would have accurate emulation/compatibility across the board even if someone found a way to modify it to play carts.
RadarScope1
Member
I'll likely get one. Have a real NES and CRT, with about 120+ games in my collection. Some really bafflingly negative comments here. It's not for us. But I want one! My thing is that my CRT and retro setup are all in my unfinished basement because there's just no space for it in my living room (I'm also married with two little kids - can't have all that geek shit my living room anymore). So a small box that provides an easy way to play Kirby and Mario with my daughters or Double Dragon 2 with friends in the living room on my big screen? Yeah, I'm getting that.
I have this vision of having a line of mini-Nintendo consoles along my modern setup, and I like it a lot. I don't really care about accuracy or taking carts when it's that cheap and I have my retro setup for everything else. It fills a different void for me than the stuff I come to this thread to obsess over
Edit: Also the emulation has got to be better than those awful Mega Drive systems. They are fucking awful.
theSlacker
Member
I posted this in the main thread about it, but I wounder about the selection of games on it. IIRC Punch Out is near impossible to beat on things with more input lag. Also why no Castlevania 3? :c
Something else to consider is someone cracking it and making a way to load your own roms on it, but who knows if that will be possible.
Something else to consider is someone cracking it and making a way to load your own roms on it, but who knows if that will be possible.
DarkConfidant
Member
Okay, so right now all I have is component (with BNC connectors), but SCART seems to be the way I'll go.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'll need to buy:
1 SNES/SFC SCART male cord
1 PS1/PS2 SCART male cord
1 SCART to BNC female cord
Anything I'm missing from that list?
Sorry if I'm slow at understanding any of this.
Something like this?: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0018MI5F6/?tag=neogaf0e-20
Yep, looks good. SNES/SFC cable should be composite sync (different from composite video). I think the ps2 one should be sync on luma but hopefully someone else can confirm.
Yes, you would need an adapter cable like the one in the link to run audio through the PVM.
There's no relation between vertical and horizontal definition. Back in the day, pixels didn't have to be square. PS2 era consoles may have some games that go above 600 horizontal definition, but I don't know how common they are. Ideally you'd want a 480p display for that generation anyway. For the rest, you're fine. And as said, even if some games have a higher definition than your display resolution, you'll still be able to display them. They will be slightly blurrier horizontally, but it's a 12" screen, you won't notice it.
Fun with picture definition:
PS1 Crash Bandicoot 3: 512 x 240p
Saturn Virtua Fighter 2: 704 x 480i
Amiga Workbench: up to 1200 x 256p or 512i (50Hz)
Atari 2600 VCS: 160 x 240p
And everything is always 4/3 aspect ratio.
There is no standard for display sets. The more expensive, the more TVL.
DarkConfidant
Member
Thanks for all the help everyone! I ordered my SCART cables!
I'll post back with my results next week.
FF6 (SFC) and Crash Bandicoot will probably be the games I test first.
Now only to figure out how to best capture photos of a CRT.
I'll post back with my results next week.
FF6 (SFC) and Crash Bandicoot will probably be the games I test first.
Now only to figure out how to best capture photos of a CRT.
MadClacker
Member
Almost pulled the trigger on an XRGB Mini when I discovered that despite the recent firmware, games that switch 240p to 480i still have a pretty long wait. Games like Silent Hill would be a nightmare to play if there was a big delay for accessing the inventory.
That said, I can't seem to find any concrete tests to see what kind of improvement it made.
I will primarily be playing PS1 and Genesis games, and while Genesis doesn't bother me, I'm more concerned about running into issues with the PS1. Should I hold off or are my findings inaccurate?
There's also the option to pick up a 14" PVM1354Q....
That said, I can't seem to find any concrete tests to see what kind of improvement it made.
I will primarily be playing PS1 and Genesis games, and while Genesis doesn't bother me, I'm more concerned about running into issues with the PS1. Should I hold off or are my findings inaccurate?
There's also the option to pick up a 14" PVM1354Q....
theclaw135
Banned
RGB can look better for 480i/240p. Yet component is easier to use.
You get one cable for all content at any resolution.
No having to deal PS2's RGB quirks where 480p games use sync-on-green, or DVD movies turning green.
Don't know, but it's a software thing -- a call to quantize and dither RGB.
(yet dithering used to fake transparency is a different thing)
My friend accidentally ordered an extra SNES RGB SCART cable from retro gaming cables and I'm just trying it now, and weirdly my SNES seems to not really be able to hold a signal. I catch occasional glimpses of the game, but then signal loss. Anyone else ever encounter anything like this?
Maybe he ordered the wrong type of SNES cable I dunno.. He does have the same NTSC SNES as I do. Unfortunately there's no sticker on the cable indicating what type it is.
Maybe he ordered the wrong type of SNES cable I dunno.. He does have the same NTSC SNES as I do. Unfortunately there's no sticker on the cable indicating what type it is.
Oh interesting I just had to change the sync level... the default of 8 was too low. Kicking it up a few notches made it work.
I ended up going the extra mile and modding an LED (which I recommend if you don't mind drilling) and S-video compatibility (which I only recommend doing if you are experienced).
The s video mod was very tricky.
But...why? If you have rgb, why on earth install a tricky s video mod to go with it? It'll never be used!
hooijdonk17
Member
After trying all kinds of solutions for modern displays, this year I bought a second hand RGB CRT monitor (Commodore 1084S). Best $50 ever spent.
RadarScope1
Member
Are coming from composite or s-video?
Just for the fun of it haha
The NES mini is for those who never played NES before and those who grew up on NES, wants to play it again, and shocked to find out the SMB trilogy goes for $45 carts only. I love the concept and I'm getting one. I never thought I see the day I would see an official Nintendo plug and play. Kimishima's Nintendo ladies and gentlemen.
Composite. I don't think I've ever played a system on S-Video before.
What would people say is the gaps in quality between RGB, S-Video and Composite?
I mean is it a pretty equal thing
RGB >>>> S-Video >>>> Composite
or more that everything is dramatically better than composite?
eg.
RGB >>> S-Video >>>>>>>>>>>>> Composite
I'm curious because the N64 doesn't have RGB out of the box, so going S-Video is the lazy route.
RetroRGB seems to think it's more the latter, though I bet going through all the effort of modding for RGB would still be a noticeble upgrade.
N64 is actually not my favourite system so I will probably just stick with S-Video for a while.
I mean is it a pretty equal thing
RGB >>>> S-Video >>>> Composite
or more that everything is dramatically better than composite?
eg.
RGB >>> S-Video >>>>>>>>>>>>> Composite
I'm curious because the N64 doesn't have RGB out of the box, so going S-Video is the lazy route.
RetroRGB seems to think it's more the latter, though I bet going through all the effort of modding for RGB would still be a noticeble upgrade.
N64 is actually not my favourite system so I will probably just stick with S-Video for a while.
Flizzzipper
Member
The jump from composite to s-video is biggest jump imo. I'm still using s-video for n64, I never really play it though so it's not a top priority for me and I'm thinking of going ultra-hdmi route.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
From my experience yesterday hooking up my SNES with S-Video for the first time, it's the latter. Massive improvement on an HDTV with S-Video. I couldn't believe how clear everything was.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Definitely the latter, but it really depends on the system. Genesis over RGB is ridiculously clear, s-video (via a mod) can still have rainbow banding depending on your revision. For N64 the jump going from s-video to RGB is pretty small. PS1 or Saturn or SNES are more clear cases where there's a decent jump but it's nothing crazy.
If I only had s-video (maybe with a CRT that didn't have component) I'd be happy with pretty much everything but Genesis. I've even been running my NESRGB mod over s-video until recently and have been very happy with it.
leonemesis
Member
This is a concern I have too and the reason I haven´t pulled the trigger on a framemeister as well. Given the fact that I will be playing mostly PS1/PS2/PSP and maybe Wii/Gamecube, it is hard to come to a decision.
Last year I got an 480p Sharp LCD from Japan, which was the only one widescreen set from a known brand that I could find. Actually cost me a lot in shipping but was countered by the tv´s low cost.
It works nicely, specially with PSP games (despite them not filling the whole screen as I thought they would), but I tried to alleviate some scratches the screen had and some of the stuff I used left some smudges on it. I can´t notice them with the screen on, but it annoys me all the same. On top of that, recently I noticed a dead pixel on it, again it doesn´t bother much when playing, but knowing it is there bothers me a lot.
Thus it got me thinking about the framemeister, if I used it I could hook my systems on my receiver and any TV set I would be currently using. With this 480p LCD I have no guarantee it will be working in 5-10 years, as it is already several years old.
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