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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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Rich!

Member
Sheeeiiit

EwOUAKqh.jpg
 

Rich!

Member
Do you have a modded jr? that looks super clean.

Yeah, it's a SFC Jr I rgb modded and added spdif digital audio out to. Can't really get better than that when it comes to real snes hardware.

The only other one of my consoles that comes close is the Saturn which is comparable in clarity. It's amazing.
 

Mupod

Member
Is there a general best display for dreamcast?

I'm guessing an old crt monitor with vga?

that's how I used to play mine. Beware that not all games work with the VGA cable though. I used to have to move it back to my TV for certain 2D games, I think Bangai-O and Gunbird 2.
 

Rich!

Member
Default 720p settings are pretty decent. easier to set up 720p because it's 3x240

yep, the scaling makes sense. I have to admit, under purposeful ignorance, I haven't tried 720p - I was under the impression that micromsoft had worked some magic to make scaling in 1080p work well.

Time to try it.
 

Timu

Member
yep, the scaling makes sense. I have to admit, under purposeful ignorance, I haven't tried 720p - I was under the impression that micromsoft had worked some magic to make scaling in 1080p work well.

Time to try it.
Post back soon, hope this helps.
 

v0yce

Member
that's how I used to play mine. Beware that not all games work with the VGA cable though. I used to have to move it back to my TV for certain 2D games, I think Bangai-O and Gunbird 2.

Yeah I've run into that. I run it to my regular led monitor now but was curious if there was a recommended crt monitor to look for. Native 640x480 I'd guess?
 

Khaz

Member
The price stings and there's no way I can sugar coat that, but it fits my needs perfectly with the 8 ports, 2 output options, automatic switching and the overall video signal quality. It's really hard to find a switch that ticks all of these boxes - especially outside of Europe.

yep and it works with simple RGBS, correctly outputs RGB even if using Cvideo without pin8, has a sync stripper, makes its own pin8/16 to correctly drive the display and force the correct aspect ratio on recent CRTs.

It's a really thought out product, and has many more inputs than anything else. The price is the real downside to it, along with the box. For something that will stay out of reach behind the TV, I expect a fully closed box so I don't have to dust it every so often.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
I'm so torn on visuals that crisp coming out of hardware from that era. I feel like so many developers made their games with the natural blur that the average CRT offers in mind. When you start seeing individual pixels it sort of breaks their illusion.
 
I'm so torn on visuals that crisp coming out of hardware from that era. I feel like so many developers made their games with the natural blur that the average CRT offers in mind. When you start seeing individual pixels it sort of breaks their illusion.

Yeah, you just put words to my thoughts when I saw some of these screenshots.
They just look too clean. They look like brand new games made for PSN or something.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I'm so torn on visuals that crisp coming out of hardware from that era. I feel like so many developers made their games with the natural blur that the average CRT offers in mind. When you start seeing individual pixels it sort of breaks their illusion.

Emulator syndrome, basically.
 
I seriously cant understand the asking price for this item!? I know that it has 8 scart inputs, VGA input, phono inputs and doesn't produce any noise on the signal but there are other scart products about (like the one made by Bandridge) that give the same quality in picture and are the 5th of the price of the gscartsw!. So what are you paying a premium for?, just the 8 scart ports?......doesnt seem worth it to me!

I wish there was one with less features. I don't need to output VGA and SCART at the same time, I also don't need Phono inputs. I would jump on one for half the price with out those features. At over 200 bucks I just haven't been able to pull the trigger on it.
 

Peltz

Member
I'm so torn on visuals that crisp coming out of hardware from that era. I feel like so many developers made their games with the natural blur that the average CRT offers in mind. When you start seeing individual pixels it sort of breaks their illusion.

Play on a CRT then. That's what I do.

Also, the framemeister has soft 480p output. You might like that.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
I totally understand where you come from, but... I dunno, doesn't this



look like the best of both worlds combined?

Maybe the 720p output on the FM looks more... faithful? Maybe it's the scanlines in the 1080p mode, but there's something really artificial about how sharp that image is. Obviously, I could be wrong -- maybe that's how it's supposed to look, but something just seems off.
 
Maybe the 720p output on the FM looks more... faithful? Maybe it's the scanlines in the 1080p mode, but there's something really artificial about how sharp that image is. Obviously, I could be wrong -- maybe that's how it's supposed to look, but something just seems off.

There's a bit of blurriness introduced in scaling 720 to 1080 but I think it actually helps things look nice with the scanlines. You end up with a bit of that classic bleed into the black that you would see on an actual CRT TV scan, rather than hard black lines like you've turned on the crummy overlay in snes9x.
 

Rich!

Member
I need some help. I had this exact same issue the last time I owned a framemeister and can't remember how I solved it.

Using my PS1 introduces two odd horizontal lines that aren't present on any other console:

HF5LNPeh.jpg



How do you fix this?


Edit: fixed it. That was easy.
 

Galdelico

Member
Maybe the 720p output on the FM looks more... faithful? Maybe it's the scanlines in the 1080p mode, but there's something really artificial about how sharp that image is. Obviously, I could be wrong -- maybe that's how it's supposed to look, but something just seems off.

Exactly. On the other hand, your OSSC pictures keep blowing me away, due to how wonderfully they show off the two things I care for the most, when it comes to retrogaming on modern displays... Perfect geometry and almost CRT-authentic scanlines.

Is there an OSSC black market where I can snag one before... Well, 2018 maybe? :D
 

BTails

Member
After seeing that Yoshi's Island pic, I was going to suggest 720p as well, I should've known you guys would be all over it before I could even reply, haha.
 

Lettuce

Member
I need some help. I had this exact same issue the last time I owned a framemeister and can't remember how I solved it.

Using my PS1 introduces two odd horizontal lines that aren't present on any other console:

HF5LNPeh.jpg



How do you fix this?


Edit: fixed it. That was easy.

Could it be the TVs scaler messing with it?
 

Mega

Banned
I seriously cant understand the asking price for this item!? I know that it has 8 scart inputs, VGA input, phono inputs and doesn't produce any noise on the signal but there are other scart products about (like the one made by Bandridge) that give the same quality in picture and are the 5th of the price of the gscartsw!. So what are you paying a premium for?, just the 8 scart ports?......doesnt seem worth it to me!

The guy who made it said he's barely above breaking even. It really is about the cost of parts and low production numbers. The Bandridge switch is a better value but that's expected as a factory-manufactured product with a company behind it. The reason this 8 input switch exists is that it sometimes becomes hard to find any decent scart switches. There are a bunch of Bandridge switches on eBay now (most seem to be a supply from the Netherlands) but that wasn't the case a year ago. You were lucky to find 3-input Hamas for $40-60 shipped from the UK.
 
Toro VGA box arrived today and I'm quite impressed!

I've been trying it out on my ASUS monitor and my PVM and like both results.

VGA to my monitor, Toro generated scanlines:

SF3 in 240p mode running on PVM with overscan enabled:

Even 480i looks pretty damn sharp on it, considering:

Still tooling around with it at the moment. Apparently, SFA3 has issues running in RGB, so I'm fixing that.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Load Select only loads up some parts of the profile, some things like the zoom settings and possible others don't get loaded and just use what ever is already in there.

Nice to know. I have used load select so far (i think), but definitely going to be more conscious about it now.

Btw, why is there no guy out there making 720p profiles like Fdx and Implantgamer does for 1080p? I used to really like the Implantgamer profiles btw, but the Genesis-profile he has uploaded looks completely wrong for me, so I have now started exploring Fdx more, and i think i like them better. Nice that he gives you a lot of different options as well.
 
Nice to know. I have used load select so far (i think), but definitely going to be more conscious about it now.

Btw, why is there no guy out there making 720p profiles like Fdx and Implantgamer does for 1080p? I used to really like the Implantgamer profiles btw, but the Genesis-profile he has uploaded looks completely wrong for me, so I have now started exploring Fdx more, and i think i like them better. Nice that he gives you a lot of different options as well.

If you run on 720 and use some of the auto settings you don't really need extreme profiles. Set SYNC_MODE to AUTO, AUTO_SCALER to GAME (VIDEO for 480), and IMAGE_MODE to PICTURE (MOVIE/NATURAL for interlaced) and you're good.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
If you run on 720 and use some of the auto settings you don't really need extreme profiles. Set SYNC_MODE to AUTO, AUTO_SCALER to GAME (VIDEO for 480), and IMAGE_MODE to PICTURE (MOVIE/NATURAL for interlaced) and you're good.

Im so doing this tomorrow, thanks! I have been a big fan of the "emulator"-look for a long time, but all those beautiful Neo Geo screenshots in various fighting game threads, is slowly changing my mind into wanting scanlines - and thus 720p.
 

Timu

Member
If you run on 720 and use some of the auto settings you don't really need extreme profiles. Set SYNC_MODE to AUTO, AUTO_SCALER to GAME (VIDEO for 480), and IMAGE_MODE to PICTURE (MOVIE/NATURAL for interlaced) and you're good.
If I get a XRGB Mini I have to keep this in mind.
 
despite 1080p being sharper (and it gradually being improved over time), 720p feels like the Mini's default. It is easier to configure, gets better scanlines, and is a marginal drop in sharpness from 1080p.

If I didn't have all my profiles set up I'd use 720p exclusively. And I do use it for streaming.
 

Morfeo

The Chuck Norris of Peace
Btw, on the Gscart and why I ordered one, I have for a long time had troubles with the scart switches I have used, and while I know Hama and Bandridge-switches are recommended, I have also heard not so great things about those. And guys like retrorgb were all very high on the gscart, and it does really look great. Handmade, built in synch-stripper, automatic switching without signal degradation and all. Its also built by a retro-game enthusiast, so i know it will be built to avoid all noise.

Also, I am all about reducing the clutter behind my tv, and figured one switch is way better than two or probably three. And in the end, it will be more expensive, but not that much more expensive than for instance buying 2 Bandridges if you include custom and shipping. So yeah, while its expensive, I think its worth it, and really looking forward to getting mine.
 

Danny Dudekisser

I paid good money for this Dynex!
Any links for something that addresses the signal degradation concerns? I kinda wanna buy one of those gscartsw things, but only once I've verified and feel confident that there won't be any potential for problems.

My interest is largely fueled by the fact that it looks really cool.
 

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Any links for something that addresses the signal degradation concerns? I kinda wanna buy one of those gscartsw things, but only once I've verified and feel confident that there won't be any potential for problems.

My interest is largely fueled by the fact that it looks really cool.

I have no use for one currently but seeing the picture with all the cables plugged in tempted me.
 
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