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[DarkConfidant]

I got my Wii hooked up via Component, and I'm noticing some scan lines while in 480p when playing Wind a waker.

Is this normal? Is it a GC thing? A progressive scan thing? A Wii thing?

 

[televator]

I got my Wii hooked up via Component, and I'm noticing some scan lines while in 480p when playing Wind a waker.

Is this normal? Is it a GC thing? A progressive scan thing? A Wii thing?

Probably not scan lines are what you see. You using a CRT or HDTV?

 

[saveweyard]

My Extron Crosspoint came in today. Let the mess of cables begin!

Pics to follow once I've got everything set up, but that'll probably take a few days.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Probably not scan lines are what you see. You using a CRT or HDTV?

They aren't black like 240p scanlines, but clearly there.makes everything look awful.

I don't see it as much on my CRT (via composite) but definitely on my HDTV with component. The game has nice graphics but this effect is awful, and I don't know if it's me or Nintendo.

 

[Laevateinn]

I asked this earlier but I'm not sure if it got noticed. Now that I have a PVM, is there any reason for me to hold onto my XRGB-3? I'm thinking about selling it.

 

[Shining]

Yesterday i picked up a SONY KV-21LS30e crt. I haven't owned a crt in over ten years so i was quite excited. Turns out the lower and upper part of the screen has some kind of color bleeding going on (or maybe it's called something else?). The middle part of the screen is much clearer/sharper, see pictures down below. It's from the service menu and SNES over RGB. I tried a Genesis and a RGB-modded Famicom with the same results. Is there anything that can be done about this?

Upper part of the screen:

Middle part of the screen:

Middle to upper part of the screen:

 

[D.Lo]

You know what I would kill for? A tate mode on Framemesiter or OSSC.

So many spare pixels on the screen that a 90 degree rotation should really be no issue. It's ridiculous I need a separate monitor for tate when I have eight million pixels to display 72k.

With fake non-scanline options please, scaler companies.

 

[Galdelico]

Yesterday i picked up a SONY KV-21LS30e crt. I haven't owned a crt in over ten years so i was quite excited. Turns out the lower and upper part of the screen has some kind of color bleeding going on (or maybe it's called something else?). The middle part of the screen is much clearer/sharper, see pictures down below. It's from the service menu and SNES over RGB. I tried a Genesis and a RGB-modded Famicom with the same results. Is there anything that can be done about this?

I honestly don't know if there's any way to fix it (that isn't getting your TV professionally restored), but I've seen that bleeding effect literally in every single Trinitron TV I've ever owned/had the chance to observe.
I clearly remember - back in the early PS2 era - a good friend of mine bought one 32" monster Wega CRT, brand new, and we tested it with Winning Eleven and Dead or Alive 2. Well, the bleeding was there (upper right corner), and the thing was so glaring to me, that I just couldn't help but notice it, from then on.
On my actual 21" Trinitron, I just live with it. Those TVs come with all kinds of subtle geometry imperfections anyway, so it's not really a huge deal. Since I gave up on finding a decent/decently priced PVM/JVC monitor in my area, I'm just patiently waiting for my turn to finally purchase an OSSC.

 

[Khaz]

Yesterday i picked up a SONY KV-21LS30e crt. I haven't owned a crt in over ten years so i was quite excited. Turns out the lower and upper part of the screen has some kind of color bleeding going on (or maybe it's called something else?). The middle part of the screen is much clearer/sharper, see pictures down below. It's from the service menu and SNES over RGB. I tried a Genesis and a RGB-modded Famicom with the same results. Is there anything that can be done about this?

Upper part of the screen:


Middle part of the screen:


Middle to upper part of the screen:

It's a convergence problem. you may have options in the service menu or some pots. Else you'll have to play with magnets.

 

[speedlolita]

I've listed it on eBay but if anyone is interested in a 20M4E in the UK feel free to PM me and maybe we can work something out. Collection from Surrey.

 

[Rich!]

I've listed it on eBay but if anyone is interested in a 20M4E in the UK feel free to PM me and maybe we can work something out. Collection from Surrey.

Price?

Edit: oh I found it! That ain't bad...I'm on the south coast. I would love one of those. PM me if you can. I'm looking to sell my JVC and it would pay a good portion of it if someone buys it!

I wouldn't need the BNC adapter though.

Definitely up for it. Would have to pick up on a Saturday though.

 

[televator]

They aren't black like 240p scanlines, but clearly there.makes everything look awful.

I don't see it as much on my CRT (via composite) but definitely on my HDTV with component. The game has nice graphics but this effect is awful, and I don't know if it's me or Nintendo.

Could be dithering, but hard to know without an image.

 

[Mega]

I've listed it on eBay but if anyone is interested in a 20M4E in the UK feel free to PM me and maybe we can work something out. Collection from Surrey.

Upgrading to a newer, better CRT or going up the upscaler route?

All the talk of 4K TVs since the PS4 Pro announcement (which I don't care for) has me thinking of the future of my current displays, although I could never get rid of all my CRTs. Maybe drop down to two or three I think are necessary to keep.

I'm basically looking for a unicorn although we may get there in 2017-2018 as there's one (expensive) OLED out now that comes close:

4K
Self-lighting pixels (OLED, no LED nonsense with dimming zones)
10-bit panel with wide color gamut and HDR
4:4:4
Accurate colors
No motion blur/ghosting
Low input lag (max 20ms lag with 4K source and HDR enabled, less with sub-4K and no HDR)
Great at upscaling 480p, 720p and 1080p sources
Bright
Non-reflective
Perfect viewing angles
Little or no image retention


Sigh.

 

[BNGames]

I did some testing with my new PVM, I used the S-Video out to an Elgato to see how it looks.

This was the result: https://youtu.be/ORzWcN_ZY_Q

The interesting part is that when I plug the S-video out into the elgato the picture on the PVM dims and washes out on the monitor but looks fine in the recording. Might be a signal strength issue?

 

[speedlolita]

Upgrading to a newer, better CRT or going up the upscaler route?

I still have my 14" Sony KX-14CP1, still on the CRT train.

I thought I would use the 20" more than I have so I just can't justify keeping it. I primarily play arcade style stuff on my Super Famicom so 14" is perfect. I'm sure Rich! will be very happy with it though.

 

[Rich!]

excited!! Been looking for one of those for a long long time now, but always been screwed over by greedy sellers wanting £500+ at the last minute. insane.

I've got a perfect space for it in the utility area just next to my living room (run a cable through the wall, so that my consoles are hooked up to both the xrgb/hdtv and the pvm) I just wonder how long a SCART cable can be before signal degradation...anyone know?

 

[Galdelico]

I'm looking to sell my JVC and it would pay a good portion of it if someone buys it!

Shame the shipping to Italy would be a total deal-breaker, because if we were closer I would've grabbed it in a heartbeat.

 

[Rich!]

Shame the shipping to Italy would be a total deal-breaker, because if we were closer I would've grabbed it in a heartbeat.

It'd probably be cheaper to drive to france and catch the ferry over the channel! That's what I did the last time I went to italy (helps that I live next to the ferry port)

 

[Peltz]

I asked this earlier but I'm not sure if it got noticed. Now that I have a PVM, is there any reason for me to hold onto my XRGB-3? I'm thinking about selling it.

Your PVM won't last forever.

 

[MrNelson]

So I managed to get my hands on a set of those SNES component cables, now I'm in need of a component switch, as my TV only has one set of component inputs. Can anyone recommend me one?

 

[Rich!]

Your PVM won't last forever.

dont say such words!

but really, keep it. You never know when you may need it again. Or sell it and use the money to buy an OSSC.

 

[Galdelico]

It'd probably be cheaper to drive to france and catch the ferry over the channel! That's what I did the last time I went to italy (helps that I live next to the ferry port)

Haha, you're not joking, considering I live on the coast too.

 

[Laevateinn]

Your PVM won't last forever.

dont say such words!

but really, keep it. You never know when you may need it again. Or sell it and use the money to buy an OSSC.

You guys have no idea how much the idea of a CRT-free world keeps me up at night. I am probably going to end up hoarding a few PVMs within the next year or so. That said, I should probably hold onto it just in case. I don't know why hoarding an upscaler seems wrong to me when I almost bought 2 PVMs this month so that I could hang onto the extra just in case.

 

[NormalFish]

By the time CRTs all die I imagine well have perfectly good replacements.

 

[speedlolita]

I do like the look of the OSSC. But enough to replace a CRT completely? Not sure... Possibly

 

[televator]

I do like the look of the OSSC. But enough to replace a CRT completely? Not sure... Possibly

Filters and simulations are only getting better

 

[Galdelico]

I do like the look of the OSSC. But enough to replace a CRT completely? Not sure... Possibly

Of course I need to see it in person, but it reallty seems to combine the best of both worlds: perfect geometry with no imperfections (that's what I've genuinely ended up hating, even in supposedly top tier CRTs), and the warm CRT look with those beautiful scanlines. I really wish we will get more and more video settings, as long as the firmware gets updated.

 

[speedlolita]

Integer scaling with no need for a frame buffer is enough for me. I don't care for filters or fake scanlines at all.

 

[Khaz]

Integer scaling with no need for a frame buffer is enough for me. I don't care for filters or fake scanlines at all.

I don't know man. I've been comparing 320x200 line-doubled in MSDOS and 1600x1200 (x5x6 integer scaled) in DOSBox, both on a VGA CRT, and there is a real difference in how it looks. One feels like the real old deal with a soft picture, and the other is just like an emulator bullshot with its massive square pixels. The only reason I keep using 1600x1200 is because my modern OS is stupid and doesn't want to display "non-native" resolutions without letter/pillar-boxing.

 

[speedlolita]

I know it won't look original, but it won't look bad and I'm perfectly happy with the result. I don't even mind the 240p image on my basic 32" 1080p Samsung.

I'm not that hard to please really, long as I can play the games I want to with a reasonable RGB image.

 

[televator]

Of course I need to see it in person, but it reallty seems to combine the best of both worlds: perfect geometry with no imperfections (that's what I've genuinely ended up hating, even in supposedly top tier CRTs), and the warm CRT look with those beautiful scanlines. I really wish we will get more and more video settings, as long as the firmware gets updated.

Can't really add a whole lot in the way of video settings without a frame buffer and more general memory.

My hope is that, since it is an open source project, someone else will come along and take the basic hardware and beef it up with more memory. Then a plethora of other features can be added to it that will difinitively put it above and beyond the Framemeister. Scaling, deinterlacing, zooming, etc... It can keep the line doubling feature so people can still get the lag free line multiplication with other features turned off.

 

[Galdelico]

Can't really add a whole lot in the way of video settings without a frame buffer and more general memory.

My hope is that, since it is an open source project, someone else will come along and take the basic hardware and beef it up with more memory. Then a plethora of other features can be added to it that will difinitively put it above and beyond the Framemeister. Scaling, deinterlacing, zooming, etc... It can keep the line doubling feature so people can still get the lag free line multiplication with other features turned off.

To be honest, I'd be perfectly happy with a better control of that screen-crop setting, to get rid of the nasty overscan with the Mega Drive/Mega-CD, and in general with all those games that don't display it in black. Custom backgrounds - in order to add console or game specific backdrops - would be nice too.

 

[Mega]

Integer scaling with no need for a frame buffer is enough for me. I don't care for filters or fake scanlines at all.

I'm not crazy about the currently available shaders at 1080p, but you're going to want fake scanlines and some kind of filtering if you're integer scaling 32/64-bit games. Older sprite based games without any additional processing can look okay due to the simpler art, but raw output of early 3D stuff will look like a pixelated mess (Samus on the right).

Borrowing a pair of TSM's pics from the Ultra HDMI thread (with and without scanlines and filtering):

 

[Peltz]

By the time CRTs all die I imagine well have perfectly good replacements.

Nothing will replace CRTs. The sound of the tube turning on to degauss along with the high pitched hum and the way it makes your hairs stand on end with static electricity, coupled with radiation you could practically smell is all part of the retro experience.

 

[NormalFish]

Nothing will replace CRTs. The sound of the tube turning on to degauss along with the high pitched hum and the way it makes your hairs stand on end with static electricity, coupled with radiation you could practically smell is all part of the retro experience.

I can't tell if you're being facetious, but if you're not, I really don't agree lol.

 

[Khaz]

I kind of like hearing the degauss when I switch mine on though. The big Boinc sound telling you that it means business, shit is going to get real. Same with the static when I turn the screen off, which sounds like pixie dust going away, taking its RGB magic with it.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Picked it up today! Sony PVM 1935MD. I don't know where to start with calibrating one of these, so I got some googling ahead of me...

Cellphone pics, quoted due to size:

Sonic looks so great in RGB

 

[dubc35]

I kind of like hearing the degauss when I switch mine on though. The big Boinc sound telling you that it means business, shit is going to get real. Same with the static when I turn the screen off, which sounds like pixie dust going away, taking its RGB magic with it.

I kind of like the degauss sound too. When I first turned my PVM on I was like, 'wtf was that?' it had been so long since I had heard a CRT turn on.

 

[Laevateinn]

So, I've run into an annoying problem that hopefully won't cost too much to get around.

My PC-98 arrived today. Unfortunately, the version I have outputs using a VGA cable, which the Japanese monitor I use with the X68k doesn't support, but outputs at 640x400 (24 KHz) which my VGA monitor doesn't support. I'm going to see if I've already found a use for my XRGB-3 tomorrow. Does it only support 15 and 31 KHz inputs?

Edit: Looks like it's either an older PC98, a new monitor or an XPC-4. I'll toss my XRGB-3 on it tomorrow because why not to make sure.

 

[Mega]

Love the CRT sounds and characteristics. When I first got my Ikegami, I swear I could still see it glowing in the dark although it was powered down. I touched the screen and could hear and feel the crackling. When the screen went off, I could see three dots, red, green and blue, converge in the middle before vanishing. It feels like stuff from a different, neat era. The Atomic age, sort of.

My CRTs are in good shape and rarely can I hear anything but faint humming when no sounds are playing. None of it like the degaussing I would describe as loud or annoying. And I know because once in a rare while my plasma will have an irritating loud buzzing coming from the screen that I can't stand.

 

[purdobol]

I just wonder how long a SCART cable can be before signal degradation...anyone know?

Depends on the cable. But if it's good quality shielded one, then up to 10 meters is considered safe. It is good practice to put some ferrite near the connector for such a long cables though.

 

[Rich!]

Depends on the cable. But if it's good quality shielded one, then up to 10 meters is considered safe. It is good practice to put some ferrite near the connector for such a long cables though.

Awesome. I've got a better idea now though! Getting another entertainment unit from Argos later (same as the one I already have) to go next to my current one under the hdtv. More room for consoles and the PVM can go on top.

 

[Conezays]

Ugh, am I the only one who has forgotten to turn off their PVM? Left it on all night (no systems on). Hopefully not a big deal.

 

[sixteen-bit]

Happened to be before. Not a big deal.

 

[Conezays]

Happened to be before. Not a big deal.

Cool, thanks. I try to be pretty anal with maintenance and taking care of my retro stuff and then wind up doing things like this, lol. Glad it wasn't left on a static game screen I suppose.

 

[DarkConfidant]

Ugh, am I the only one who has forgotten to turn off their PVM? Left it on all night (no systems on). Hopefully not a big deal.

I can't do that. I wouldn't be able to stand that old high pitch noise of it being on.

 

[NOLA_Gaffer]

Love the CRT sounds and characteristics. When I first got my Ikegami, I swear I could still see it glowing in the dark although it was powered down. I touched the screen and could hear and feel the crackling. When the screen went off, I could see three dots, red, green and blue, converge in the middle before vanishing. It feels like stuff from a different, neat era. The Atomic age, sort of.

My CRTs are in good shape and rarely can I hear anything but faint humming when no sounds are playing. None of it like the degaussing I would describe as loud or annoying. And I know because once in a rare while my plasma will have an irritating loud buzzing coming from the screen that I can't stand.

My CRT is right next to my bed and I can definitely see it very faintly glowing in a dark room, even when turned off.

 

[Conezays]

I can't do that. I wouldn't be able to stand that old high pitch noise of it being on.

Mine is near silent and was in another room. I'm blaming my lack of awareness on the flu at the moment

 

[Laevateinn]

Ugh, am I the only one who has forgotten to turn off their PVM? Left it on all night (no systems on). Hopefully not a big deal.

Oh god. Now I want to leave work.

 

[KC-Slater]

Ugh, am I the only one who has forgotten to turn off their PVM? Left it on all night (no systems on). Hopefully not a big deal.

I'm sure it will be fine. I imagine the medical professionals and video editors that previously used them for work would leave them on all weekend and generally not a give a shit about them.

Spoiler

Now if we're talking plasmas...