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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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baphomet
Member
Only a Sony bvm and possibly an NEC xm29.
Wait, misunderstood the question. Trinitrons aren't hard to find. But if you can even find those a CRT with component inputs or at the absolute least, svideo. But those wouldn't be anywhere near a reference monitor.
This PVM has 2 RGB/COMP inputs. I have RGB on B and Component on A. Though, on A I had to go into the menu and set it to the setting above. In Menu, you go to congif then RGB A or B. Once in their respective menus, you can choose from RGB-INT SYNC, RGB-EXT SYNC, COMP-INT SYNC, and COMP-EXT SYNC.
The front A and B is just for the input, not configuring the input type (which I have no idea what each one means).
Woah, the NEC looks even nicer than the Sony. From what I understand, the PVMs are the only reference quality monitors, correct?
theSlacker
Member
It's bigger then you really would go with the PVMs or BVMs, but there are some downsides as well, like how much more picky with sync it is. As such you will probably need a sync stripper to use it, depending on your cord set up.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The NES came back in the mail today.
My capture card doesn't seem to get the horizontal resolution correct but it still looks pretty good.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The difference is a lot more apparent in video, of course. The dot crawl on composite video output is severe.
IrishNinja
Member
damn, so glad to be away from composite...in my mind, dot crawl was a problem of the RF daisy-chain i had on my CRT growing up; im sure compshit had it but it wasn't as pronounced at least
baphomet
Member
Is that the nes's original composite out or the one generated from the nesrgb? I'm assuming the latter which is quite a bit better than the original.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That's a stock composite shot pictured above, as I wanted to use an un-modded NES for the base comparison.
I'll be testing the modded composite output as well just to make sure it works correctly but I dunno if I'm going to bother capping a video of it.
I'll be testing the modded composite output as well just to make sure it works correctly but I dunno if I'm going to bother capping a video of it.
An HD CRT doesn't downsample anything, it doesn't process the picture at all, like any other CRT. It most likely have a refresh rate of 100/120Hz instead of the 50/60Hz of standard CRT TV, which then screw up light guns. CRTs have a maximum resolution based on the grid size, but can natively display any lower resolution, like your old VGA CRT computer screen was able to display your desktop in 1024x768 and still play old 320x200 DOS games mighty fine.
There was no technical hurdle to go Full HD with CRTs. But manufacturers wanted to make new LCD as they were lighter and more compact, meaning better storage and shipment, and sell them at a premium retail price. I still think that LCD is the sham of the decade, bar for nomad computing.
And it seems Europe almost never got HD CRTs. It was mainly sold in the US and Asia for some reason. I have never found a CRT HDTV locally, and getting it from overseas means giving up on the Scart and paying a hefty price for delivery.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
HD CRTs might not have scaling quirks or inherent lag, but some do have crappy post-processing that may or may not be possible to turn off. The first big fighting game tournament I went to still used CRTs, and this came up as an issue at one point because it was discovered that the HD set they were using for the main stage did have some processing lag that they couldn't figure out how to eliminate.
If you have the NESRGB and your modded did the mod with a 4 position switch (pallet switch) one of the 4 positions switches the NESRGB off completely so you can use the composite RCA connections on the side of the Frontloader NES (if thats what you have...and personally why wouldn't you) for comparisons shots
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That's what I'd do if I was modding a front-loader, but I went with a top-loader for the mod instead.
I'll probably be doing away with the front-loader in the near future. Other than the flaky 72-pin connector it seems like it's in good shape.
WHAT!!!....why would you do this?, the frontloader is the iconic NES system lol,........no offense but i just dont like the toploader....just looks so cheap and tacky, i thought it was a clone system first time i saw it.
Horse's for course's i guess
EDIT: is your frontloader NTSC?....ill happily take if off your hands
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I just think the front-loader is more of a nuisance in practice.
Anyway, does the RGB output on this SNES Mini look a little too bright to anyone else, or is this normal? My RGB captures are usually slightly brighter than other inputs but this one seems to be more pronounced.
Anyway, does the RGB output on this SNES Mini look a little too bright to anyone else, or is this normal? My RGB captures are usually slightly brighter than other inputs but this one seems to be more pronounced.
SNES mini is brighter when RGB modded. It outputs a strong signal, and the white level is far brighter than on a stock SNES. Mine is the same.
It's one of the many reasons Byuu (BSNES) dislikes the Mini and calls it a bastardization of the original design. I prefer it though.
Dr. Black Jack
Member
Yup. I have the 34XBR960 and it is absolutely terrible for SD inputs. I hooked up my NES via composite the other day to quickly test a game and it was almost unbearable. Amazing HD picture, but a no-go for retro systems.
Which mod is done on the SNES mini, just the standard 3 wire mod or the amp mod. I ve got 4 SNES minis here and 1 has just the standard 3 wire and 1 has the AMP mod with 68ohm resistor, im going to mod another one today and this time try 75ohm resistors but to me the 68 seems nice and bright.....but not too bright
EDIT: what process are you using to capture those screen shots, the aspect ratio appears to be wrong?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The XCAPTURE-1 has a tendency to get the horizontal resolution or aspect ratio incorrect for analog sources that don't evenly divide into 720 or 640 in width. The NES and SNES are two such sources.
Composite will look like shit regardless of the screen.
honeymustardn
Member
Does anyone know any modders (preferably in the UK) who could take a look at my AV Famicom NESRGB mod? Everything is soldered up but I can't seem to get any picture from it. It's way too hard to desolder everything for me now, so was hoping someone else could troubleshoot it...
originalself
Neo Member
Ha stupid auto correct. Kinda fits. I spend most my time playing shining force 3 translations.
WHAT!!!....why would you do this?, the frontloader is the iconic NES system lol,........no offense but i just dont like the toploader....just looks so cheap and tacky, i thought it was a clone system first time i saw it.
Horse's for course's i guess
EDIT: is your frontloader NTSC?....ill happily take if off your hands
I have 2 front loaders. I'd trade them both for just one top loader to RGB mod and regret nothing. lol
Ive never done a top loader but done about 8 frontloaders, i could take a look at it for you but cant guarantee anything. Was it working fine before the mod? whats the actual problem with it?
honeymustardn
Member
Yeah it was fine before. Problem is it's turning on (I guess, the TV seems to react) but no audio or video is appearing. I've ordered a multimeter to test the connections. I'm hoping/guessing that one of the pins isn't soldered properly somewhere. There are so many points to solder.
baphomet
Member
Is jumper 5 bridged?
honeymustardn
Member
Yup, that and 3 :\
baphomet
Member
Is a palette switch wired, or one of the palette pads grounded?
honeymustardn
Member
Yeah, like in the guide. Here are some photos (probably won't help much): http://i.imgur.com/gp2wYkH.jpg http://i.imgur.com/qLHHBLl.jpg
baphomet
Member
On the bottom of the board did you not solder the socket from the bottom?
Everything looks fine as far as the install. Some of the solder points are somewhat iffy, so a continuity check is probably your best bet.
honeymustardn
Member
Yeah they are all soldered there. I think the flash from the camera makes it look like there are gaps. It also picks up the flux..
edit: oh, I see what you mean. Yeah I did, but I used a solder sucker pump to get rid of some of the excess, so it looks clean. I did this after I confirmed it didn't work though, so yeah..
baphomet
Member
Well unfortunately nothing sticks out as being obviously bad. I would suggest against soldering the ppu actually in the socket though. It'll be a bitch to get out should you need to.
Just get a multimeter and check continuity from the bottom of the board to get corresponding legs of the ppu. That is really all I can think to check.
HD CRTs often process 240p/480i signals quite a bit in my experience. I don't think I've encountered one that doesn't at least line double to 480p.
You're better off with an SDTV for 240p stuff in my opinion.
theSlacker
Member
I find a lot of what I do for the sake of retro gaming is more of a nuisance in practice. I guess part of the fun for me is all the fiddling and getting things right.
I'm surprised they do, it's not like they have to. But I'll trust you on that.
Having done this mod myself as a noob, I'd second this. Even though all of my solder points were nice and shiny, I had to redo several on the PPU several times before there was continuity.
Although some of them never gained continuity so I figured some are designed not to.
honeymustardn
Member
Really? That's going to make things difficult for me :\
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
One has a female end (to be connected to an individual SCART cable); the other has a male end (to be plugged into the Out port of a SCART switch box).
Andy the cook
Neo Member
Ok great. thank you.
7DollarHagane
Banned
Does anyone know of any good guides to get into the service menu for a sony trinitron? the upper part of my CRT is like bubbled out that anything in the top middle of the image kind of overscans off the screen. I'm assuiming that would be a pretty simple geometry adjustment.
My bet would be a failure of the cable itself or the connections. try moving the cable in the socket to see if you can make it happen. Try it on both ends, console and TV. The solder joints between the socket and the board endure a lot of stress with each plugging and unplugging and can weaken after some time. It's especially true for Scart but can happen for every type of connection. It's usually advised to shift the stress to an extension cord or a hub if you plan to often change device.
Later Alligator
Member
i opted not to do the scart cable mode myself so i dont fry my xrgb-mini, and grabbed an svideo cable from the flea market to hold me over until my scart to 8 pin connector arrives
this thing looks amazing, there was definitely motion blur on the cheap shitty scart > hdmi converter i was using. and the scan lines,,, man... brings back memories
this thing looks amazing, there was definitely motion blur on the cheap shitty scart > hdmi converter i was using. and the scan lines,,, man... brings back memories
I have two cables, and both display the same results.
EDIT: Actually, I was checking both cables out, and see if there was a difference, so there was a LOOOT of plugging and unplugging. Did I damage my TV?
Ok finished the RGB AMP mod on 2 SNES Mini's today, modded with 75 ohm resistors this time.....
Here comparisons between a SNES Mini using the RGM amp mod method with a 68 ohm and then 75 ohm resistor on the R,G and B lines....
Hmmm, from what i can see you have everything soldered correctly, so if was working but then just stopped?
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