Pancakes R Us
Member
Luckily enough, I have a 23" 720p Samsung TV. I gave it to my nephews after I'd bought a 1080p one, but then swapped that one to get the old one back (because I needed a smaller TV). This is great news.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
Good news and bad news, but lets start with the bad news:
Bad news: The SNES sync scart cable does not work at all on my scart/hdmi to hdmi converter, it detects it:
But then just says this:
I'm not sure what's going on with that, maybe it doesn't like sync cables, I don't know.
Good news: It works on hdmi obviously and this is useful for sub hd PS3 and 360 games as I can do 800x600 and 1024x768 on those consoles now:
But best of all is the improvement it has on composite, yep, I got a scart adapter that lets me do composite and svideo(though I don't have a svideo cable for my consoles for some reason but I will fix that) on my scart to hdmi converter, and the difference is massive in terms of color and clarity, here are pics of the 1st 3 levels of Super Return of the Jedi for comparison:
Left is straight up composite and right is composite to scart to hdmi:
It also gets rid of the fuzzyness and interlacing as well. Imagine if RGB worked...
Bad news: The SNES sync scart cable does not work at all on my scart/hdmi to hdmi converter, it detects it:
But then just says this:
I'm not sure what's going on with that, maybe it doesn't like sync cables, I don't know.
Good news: It works on hdmi obviously and this is useful for sub hd PS3 and 360 games as I can do 800x600 and 1024x768 on those consoles now:
But best of all is the improvement it has on composite, yep, I got a scart adapter that lets me do composite and svideo(though I don't have a svideo cable for my consoles for some reason but I will fix that) on my scart to hdmi converter, and the difference is massive in terms of color and clarity, here are pics of the 1st 3 levels of Super Return of the Jedi for comparison:
Left is straight up composite and right is composite to scart to hdmi:
It also gets rid of the fuzzyness and interlacing as well. Imagine if RGB worked...
lostinblue
Banned
240p has quite defined scanlines which is the other 240 lines who are unfilled, 480i doesn't, because it refreshes the 480 lines it supposedly has.
lostinblue
Banned
Timu, is the cable sync on Luma?
Some of these devices dislike them (composite sync is NOT part of the Scart spec, even if it is mostly supported), that definitely it seems to be the case.
Can be fixed by who made the cable easily by soldering the sync cable into a different pin on the plug.
The other possibility is bad, which is that the converter doesn't support RGB, like some euro TV's a few years back who had the scart partly wired only and thus wanted composite or S-video to be fed through it and would just ignore the rest. If so, rather than a misdetection it only wanted the composite video channel anyway (and this said, it would work with most RGB Scart cables out there). I reckon you told me, but what converter did you buy?
It looks otherwise good, I assumed most of these devices HDMI port was passthrough only.
I honestly have no idea as it never said anything about it.
Actually it's suppose to support RGB as it's detected and there are videos of the same converter doing RGB perfectly fine on it. For input it's suppose to say NTSC, PAL, etc. as I get NTSC when I do Scart AV.
As for the converter, I decided to get one that retains the 4:3 image and did resolutions besides HD like 800x600 and 1024x768(though I can even output as low as 640x480 through the capture software) so I ordered the CVID BG-460 but instead got Scart/HDMI to HDMI HD Converter as labeled on the device itself(which looks like the others).
But they(mostly) fixed composite's problems.=O Though while I can alter the color, I think composite may also be the problem.=p
So, retro_console_accessories on ebay, I sent a message to them a week ago and they never replied. Sent another one yesterday and no response. Really lame because I need my RGB cables, but don't want to have to make separate orders once she does finally list the Genesis one.
My SCART - BNC cable arrived too, making me more impatient since I have nothing to test it with.
Also, can anyone tell me if RGB carries a 480i signal? I am not sure if I should get cables for my Dreamcast and Saturn or not or just use composite.
Another weird question, that probably no one knows, but can Wii Mini use RGB?
Thank you so much for all your help. Did some basic geometry changes and also calibrated chroma, phase, and brightness using that test suite with my Everdrive.
Contrast I have trouble with, it says to adjust the contrast so that the top white bar in PLUGE has the same sized scan lines as the other colors, I just don't understand what it means and can't tell a difference.
My SCART - BNC cable arrived too, making me more impatient since I have nothing to test it with.
Also, can anyone tell me if RGB carries a 480i signal? I am not sure if I should get cables for my Dreamcast and Saturn or not or just use composite.
Another weird question, that probably no one knows, but can Wii Mini use RGB?
Thank you so much for all your help. Did some basic geometry changes and also calibrated chroma, phase, and brightness using that test suite with my Everdrive.
Contrast I have trouble with, it says to adjust the contrast so that the top white bar in PLUGE has the same sized scan lines as the other colors, I just don't understand what it means and can't tell a difference.
Thanks, some of the wording on the retrorgb site is really confusing IMO. Too late for the Wii, my launch model broke at the end of 2011 and I got a Wii Mini when they came out because I liked the look of it and it seemed much more reliable than a standard Wii.
Well I found this on Nintendo.co.uk:
So the RGB signal is really just a composite signal?
We're talking about it over in the Gamecube thread, but thought I'd let you lot know that the Gameboy Player on Gamecube can now be forced successfully into 240p using Swiss.
But beware it carries a terrible curse!
Ooooh, that's bad.
But it comes with a free Frogurt!
That's good.
The Frogurt is also cursed.
That's bad.
But you get your choice of topping!
That's good.
The toppings contains Potassium Benzoate.
...
That's bad.
sixteen-bit
Member
Can't wait to try some 240p game boy player!
Finally, the definitive way to play GBA games is here... if only I had a better 2D controller for the GC.
D.Lo
Member
I have a GCN to SNES controller adapter for just this purpose!
baphomet
Member
Just ordered one. Didn't even know these existed. Much better option than the hori controller.
sixteen-bit
Member
So hyped for this 240p gbp business
Friend of Sonic
Member
Where? I almost considered dropping 60 on the Hori GCN controller at a local shop. Now I'm glad I didn't
baphomet
Member
Shit I would give the $60 for that in a heartbeat.
http://www.raphnet-tech.com/products/snes_to_wii/index.php
That's the link though.
D.Lo
Member
I got mine from here years ago:
http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.php?cPath=&products_id=31
No longer available
Originally got it for Virtual console as an alternative to the expensive Nintendo SNES classic controller.
Raphnet makes great stuff too, but it's much more expensive. I'm constantly tempted by the Gamecube controller to N64 adapter...
EDIT: I had a Hori back in the day. Not that good honestly. Lower quality than an original SNES controller, stiffer buttons, and kept the same GCN layout which kept it from being more useful for other 2D games.
Friend of Sonic
Member
I figured it was worth around $80-$90, but it just didn't seem that amazing. To me, it's way sexier to use the SNES pad, calling back to days of yore where I did the same with the Super Game Boy.
Thanks for the link!
A warning, the RetroUSB and it looks like the Raphnet (based on the mappings listed on their website) are very uncomfortable for GBA platformers where you have to run and jump simultaneously, since you'll be doing it with B and A and not Y and B on the SNES controller.
I'm assuming they haven't updated the RetroUSB ones since I bought it many years ago though.
I'm assuming they haven't updated the RetroUSB ones since I bought it many years ago though.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Suddenly, I am worried. That's sort of a big deal to me. Thank you for the heads up.
It's a huge ass deal, made the thing practically worthless for me. It's not just running and jumping, pick up your SNES controller and try to tap A while holding B or vice versa. Anything that requires that is going to be a problem. Stuff like pokemon or golden sun is alright though.
But if you want to play SNES VC games on your Wii or anything like that, it's definitely worth it. Or a Wii with custom firmware using VBA or something. But then it's emulation instead of legit hardware like the GBP.
I'd go get that $60 Hori, seriously.
D.Lo
Member
B and A is the superior set-up anyway
We've had this argument in the NES/Famicom thread (regarding the orientation of dogbone controllers). Roll left right for B/A instead of hold and release B constantly and roll to A.
B/A in that orientation is also how they are set on all Game Boy models, so it would be 'correct' for the GBP anyway.
Technically the SNES is NES controller compatible, they just changed the plug shape at the last minute, and that's how it maps.
Mario World just locked in Y/B into use incorrectly
B and A is the superior set-up anyway
We've had this argument in the NES/Famicom thread (regarding the orientation of dogbone controllers). Roll left right for B/A instead of hold and release B constantly and roll to A.
B/A in that orientation is also how they are set on all Game Boy models, so it would be 'correct' for the GBP anyway.
Technically the SNES is NES controller compatible, they just changed the plug shape at the last minute, and that's how it maps.
Mario World just locked in Y/B into use incorrectly
Lol no. The GBA buttons are almost side by side, with the bottom of A only half way up the middle of B.
The bottom of A on the SNES controller is literally all the way above the top of B. They aren't comparable at all.
Also, the GBA buttons are much smaller and easier to press simultaneously.
Edit: Also like the entire Gameboy line, the dogbone controller has its A button about half way up from the B (maybe a little higher, probably why people in that thread didn't like it). It isn't comparable to the SNES either.
D.Lo
Member
Lol?
Game Boy button layout:
Which is a closer approximation of the above, Y/B or B/A...
Ironically enough the Hori retains this layout as well, from the GCN which also used it.
The only ever Nintendo controller with it the other way around is the N64.
You might have gotten used to using the SNES controller that way, but it's the outlier.
There's an interesting history of east/west in that button argument, Japan typically left it as B/A, making B the logical 'cancel' button and A 'Accept'. This was moved 'up' to Y/B in the US.
The divide carried on carried on beyond the SNES to the PS1, where in Japan the logic of X to cancel and O to accept was lost as the incorrect mapping of the US was passed from the SNES to the PS1.
Uh, you just proved my point. Every single one of those controllers follows the right side button being half way up the left. Aside from the SNES, which is all the way up. It isn't comparable with the Game Boy line. Or the Hori.
The SNES has the same layout as the DS which also uses Y as the run button. Although the DS buttons are very small and close together so the other way probably wouldn't be too bad.
D.Lo
Member
No I did not prove your point, how exactly is a 'left button higher' Y/B orientation closer to the 'right button higher' B/A layout featured in every single Game Boy model and every single Nintendo controller apart from the N64?
That the right button is higher on the SNES pad than on others is immaterial compared to Y/B being in the exact opposite orientation.
You can prefer the other way, that's fine. I change NSMB to use Y/B myself (though B/A is default...). But it's factually incorrect to claim Y/B is closer to original actual Game Boy hardware layouts.
Wut. No it isn't. Any controller is going to have your thumb angled up (towards the left) between 45 and 90 degrees, regardless of the buttons. If the end of your thumb is on Y, it's going to be laying across B on an SNES controller.
This isn't the case for the A button, where you are rolling your thumb perpendicular to the direction it is pointing to reach between it and B. The result of the higher A button is that you have to have your thumb at a lesser angle (again towards the left) in order to roll horizontally and still hit that button, than like with the other controllers you are mentioning. Considering putting your fingers across the shoulder buttons naturally shifts your thumb more vertically, the result is pretty weird and unnatural.
In order to hit A and B like that, you're probably going to have to hold and support the controller just with your fingers no longer able to rest it on the padded area where the fingers meet the hand.
Edit: And actually, since wrapping the pointer finger across the top of the controller up to the R button causes the thumb to naturally turn more vertical, you can actually roll from Y to B.
theSlacker
Member
Retro_console_accessories seems to be very busy and may not be able to answer questions all the time. I know that I've only gotten feedback on the very last thing I bought from her when I've gotten like 6 cables overall and never received an answer to the only question I ever asked. If you are trying to find out when a cable is going to be back in stock just give it time since they come and go, and I don't think I've seen her just stop making a cable for a system. Be bad if when the cable you want comes back in stock another is out again.
I normally use the next test image, "color bars", to adjust contrast. Basically pump it up till you can see the colors bleed across to other blocks, then lower it till you can't see that at all. Then go back to the pluge test image and redo the brightness. There is a chance that your set isn't capable of the higher levels of contrast to see the bleeding effect even on full blast, I know my PVM can't anymore, so you may just have to make due. I've heard there are ways to raise the contrast from inside the monitor itself but that is a bit beyond what I feel comfortable doing. Once again all the stuff you are doing now will probably need to be retweeked when you go RGB, but its still nice to get to know what everything does.
sixteen-bit
Member
Can you use a GBA -> GCN link cable to use say, an OG game boy advance to control your Game Boy Player?
Yes! You just plug it in, turn it on, it chimes and then fades out to show the Gameboy Player logo on screen.
I actually just tested this again right now cos I had those two things sitting on my desk, it's very nice to play with actually. I used to do this back in the day but haven't for a long long time; think I might use it as my mainstay for awhile.
Well looks like I spoke too soon and an hour after I posted on here she responded to my original question. She is just waiting for a shipment of parts before making the next batch. I am just too impatient. Busy guy, but I am too excited to try out RGB mode on my game consoles.
I actually was trying to do the color bars thing, and what you said is right, my contrast, all the way up, did not cause bleed through. The instructions said to raise contrast until D and E blended together, but even on max this never happened. Was able to do brightness fine using the PLUGE test, and contrast is the only outlier.
I will have to try Avia Guide again, but from what I remember, their contrast thing is just another set of PLUGE bars.
Since you had the same issue with color bars, how did you end up setting your contrast?
As for color temperature I can do D65, or D93, unless I wanted to adjust the gain and bias. Online everything says 65 is the standard so I went with that.
SMPTE and "Blue Only" mode is how I calibrated chroma and phase, really cool trick where you turn 8 bars into 4 bars by ensuring they are the same shade as the bar underneath them
theSlacker
Member
I just put the contrast to the max I can set it on my PVM and deal with it not being as good as it possibly can be. At the max it can get to it is really close to how it should be.
But then I go and use one of my BVMs instead anyway.
Wait till you go full RGB, since I don't think the chroma and phase options will do anything at all on it.
lostinblue
Banned
retro_console_accessories tend to be linked to pure sync whenever possible.
That's not a bad decision, but if an incompatibility arrises that's the first place to look.
I wouldn't say fixed, they filtered the crap out of them, yes.
How does it scroll? some boxes add extra filtering to scrolling, it just doesn't look right.
Sadly, no.
That console is a clusterfuck of fail. I also like the look behind it but they took everything out, including S-video, RGB and Component cables support.
Understandably I don't think the community lost too much time with it so although putting that in again should be possible, I doubt it ever will.
sixteen-bit
Member
Do you need a charge to use the GBA as a GBP controller or does it not require battery?
Friend of Sonic
Member
OK OK. I'll call them up and see if they still have it. :O
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
There is a sony gdwf900 or whatever that insane 24in 16:10 monitor is on Craigslist near me. I'm not gonna buy it but would it support 240p? It does have bnc inputs in addition to the dvi port. That'd really nice if it could be used for retro gaming.
Not sure if you saw my later posts, but Nintendo UK says the RGB cable outputs the same signal as AV. Guess it only has one form of video processing.
I am not sure what attracted me to one in the first place, but Wii's online has always sucked so that was no major loss. Although I do want Turbo Grafx games on VC, one of the only systems I don't have.
sixteen-bit
Member
Do you know which color it is/was?
I will do this, thanks. My contrast seems close too, it isn't dim or anything, but just probably somewhat worn over the years.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Indigo, I believe.
EDIT: I'm tripping, it was $80. Still a decent price according to eBay value, but I think $60 was my max.
You should also note that only the PAL Wii and Gamecube supported RGB over Scart, while NTSC ones supported S-Video. All Scart leads can also carry composite video, as most TVs typically had only one socket with RGB and the rest were composite only.
It has to be on, but I don't think it uses as much battery as playing a GBA game. That's just anecdotal evidence though.
lostinblue
Banned
Yup, ignores RGB, just feeds the composite video line and it gets identified by the TV as composite.
It's a good novelty console, I hope to buy one before they go out of stock because it's the sort of shit that might be worth something a few years from now and perhaps have a few problems solved too... kinda like SNES mini eventually got it's RGB and S-video back, eventually.
But as is, it's turd. SNES mini was turd at one point too. (some argue it still is)
Thankfully second hand Wii's are very cheap at this point, I'd advise you to get one.
If you're willing, one without controllers will be much cheaper than usual (just use the Wii Mini one) and/or without the power supply (I'm assuming the Wii Mini uses the same) and sensor bar... Every omission will make it cheaper.
The console itself (just the console) is worth nill right now.
sixteen-bit
Member
I tried this out and it worked great. Is there a way to access the Z button though?
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