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[Peagles]

I tried this out and it worked great. Is there a way to access the Z button though?

No but I think if you have a Gamecube controller in any other port the Z button on that will still bring up the menu.


Edit: On another note, with all this 240p Gameboy Player stuff going on, has anyone ever tried 240p previously via something like the Extron Emotia on the Gameboy Player? If so, how was it?

 

[speedlolita]

How did I not find this thread earlier? Would love to post some of my stuff later.

 

[Ramune]

Better late than never! Sounds like your gonna post some pretty epic stuff! :O

 

[Polioliolio]

Y+B for Life.

I have no problem with the gameboy layouts, but he's right about B going halfway up to A, where as w/ the SNES layout, A is completely above B.

I think the default buttons ought to the the closest to the inside of the controller.

B+A on NES/GB/GBA
Y+B on SNES (w/ A for extra function)
A+B on Genesis (w/ C for extra function)
Square and X on Playstation (w/ Circle for extra function)
B+A on N64 (w/ Down C for extra function)
B+A on Gamecube (w/ X for extra function [Y also works well because the layout makes it pretty easy to go to from the large A button spot]

I think you'll find for these platforms, almost all games primarily use these buttons the most.

It's not so much about which angle A and B are resting at. It's about which buttons are closest set on the inside of the controller, and are most comfortable to access from a default position.

So it bothers me that Nintendo wants to change the default controls they've been using for years, not by having a different button layout, but by using the same button layout, and setting the default buttons on the outside of the button set.

 

[sixteen-bit]

How did I not find this thread earlier? Would love to post some of my stuff later.

There's a PS1 thread too. I bet they'd dig your RGB setup!

 

[speedlolita]

Not on the same level, probably. Worth a try though! Lol.

 

[Timu]

retro_console_accessories tend to be linked to pure sync whenever possible.

That's not a bad decision, but if an incompatibility arrises that's the first place to look.I wouldn't say fixed, they filtered the crap out of them, yes.

How does it scroll? some boxes add extra filtering to scrolling, it just doesn't look right.Sadly, no.

Ah, I see.

Yep, there's a bit of blur in motion besides just the filtering and that's why I have returned it now. The scart to component converter I mentioned a bit is what I'm going for as it turns out that my Roxio can even detect 240p(and output to 720x480) which I had no idea since it worked on my SNES. However I'm also going to try to find a way to convert the signal to 480i/p for my far superior Avermedia to detect it.

 

[lostinblue]

Be aware that you're gonna go through a very trial and error path there, no ammount of text will explain what you need to know, but...

You never ever want to convert 240p into 480i. You'll understand as soon as you learn to tell the difference between properly processed 240p and 240p interpreted as 480i.

480p can be fine if it's linedoubling (filling the empty lines with a repeat of the above line, but not if it thinks it is 480i so is pulling 480i+deinterlace.


What happens is, 240p refreshes every single line 60 times per second (if the rate is 60 Hz), 480i refreshes 240 even lines 30 times and 240 odd lines 30 times per second... alternately (also at 60 hz). Thing is, this means 240p is able to pull 60 frames per second and/or 16.7 ms refresh intervals, 480i is only able to pull 30 full frames per second (meaning 33.3 ms refresh intervals to allow for two refreshes to get the full frame) or... 60 incomplete results per second (ie: outputting half the lines on the framebuffer alternatively 60 different readings 60 times per second). This last one usually looks better if forced 240p or something, as it's not pretty not having complete results.

Anyway, treating 240p as 480i means... imagine scrolling, all of a sudden half the lines will be the previous frame and the others will be the next one who should have replaced it, shown at the same time. Or worse, a composite of both, "deinterlaced".

Don't worry, you'll grow to hate it.

 

[Timu]

Be aware that you're gonna go through a very trial and error path there, no ammount of text will explain what you need to know, but...

You never ever want to convert 240p into 480i. You'll understand as soon as you learn to tell the difference between properly processed 240p and 240p interpreted as 480i.

480p can be fine if it's linedoubling (filling the empty lines with a repeat of the above line, but not if it thinks it is 480i so is pulling 480i+deinterlace.


What happens is, 240p refreshes every single line 60 times per second (if the rate is 60 Hz), 480i refreshes 240 even lines 30 times and 240 odd lines 30 times per second... alternately (also at 60 hz). Thing is, this means 240p is able to pull 60 frames per second and/or 16.7 ms refresh intervals, 480i is only able to pull 30 full frames per second (meaning 33.3 ms refresh intervals to allow for two refreshes to get the full frame) or... 60 incomplete results per second (ie: outputting half the lines on the framebuffer alternatively 60 different readings 60 times per second). This last one usually looks better if forced 240p or something, as it's not pretty not having complete results.

Anyway, treating 240p as 480i means... imagine scrolling, all of a sudden half the lines will be the previous frame and the others will be the next one who should have replaced it, shown at the same time. Or worse, a composite of both, "deinterlaced".

Don't worry, you'll grow to hate it.

...Yeah I'm going to need a line doubler.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

Lots of good info here today! There is so much to know about the world of retro gaming!

 

[televator]

So the PS3 will do RGB... Now I know about scan converters that bring 480p back down to 15khz, but what connection would be required for this?

 

[speedlolita]

Better late than never! Sounds like your gonna post some pretty epic stuff! :O

Depends on what you consider epic!

I guess I'll post some cable porn and my display.

All Official cables. From left to right: Saturn rev1, Saturn rev 2, 3x PlayStation, Dreamcast, GameCube, PlayStation 2, Xbox and PlayStation 3 component which I use for PlayStation 2. Also after the SCART leads for Wii, Mega Drive and then SNES.

Display is a Sony KX-14CP1. I tend to use my desk setup to rotate machines as desired, the machines being on a shelf to the right of the desk. The SCART input on the side is ridiculously convenient too.

CRT 4 lyfe.

Currently excited at the prospect of finally RGB modding my PC Engine Duo R via this kit.

 

[Jamix012]

Be aware that you're gonna go through a very trial and error path there, no ammount of text will explain what you need to know, but...

You never ever want to convert 240p into 480i. You'll understand as soon as you learn to tell the difference between properly processed 240p and 240p interpreted as 480i.

480p can be fine if it's linedoubling (filling the empty lines with a repeat of the above line, but not if it thinks it is 480i so is pulling 480i+deinterlace.


What happens is, 240p refreshes every single line 60 times per second (if the rate is 60 Hz), 480i refreshes 240 even lines 30 times and 240 odd lines 30 times per second... alternately (also at 60 hz). Thing is, this means 240p is able to pull 60 frames per second and/or 16.7 ms refresh intervals, 480i is only able to pull 30 full frames per second (meaning 33.3 ms refresh intervals to allow for two refreshes to get the full frame) or... 60 incomplete results per second (ie: outputting half the lines on the framebuffer alternatively 60 different readings 60 times per second). This last one usually looks better if forced 240p or something, as it's not pretty not having complete results.

Anyway, treating 240p as 480i means... imagine scrolling, all of a sudden half the lines will be the previous frame and the others will be the next one who should have replaced it, shown at the same time. Or worse, a composite of both, "deinterlaced".

Don't worry, you'll grow to hate it.

Hmmm
Curious. I run a DVDO VP50 Upscaler and it doesn't recognise 240p and just treats it as 480i (but my LED TV does when it runs the signal straight in, lol.) Anyway, despite that, I prefer the way 240p content looks when running through my upscaler. Am I a bad person? I'm able to provide comparison shots if desired.

 

[lostinblue]

^ The DVDO VP50 with up to date firmware supports 240p, I'm 99% sure of this. VP50 Pro will support it a little better I believe.

Even if it's not being properly handled you prefer the look of the scaling done on the scaling, that's fine specially for slower games and still images (and scaling is what a scaler does for a living), dealbreakers will be fast moving objects or background but you might still prefer it.

The issue is your TV probably softens the image a bit too much so on still images, like tile screens and the like, preferring the scaler is probably a no brainer.

 

[Jamix012]

^ The DVDO VP50 with up to date firmware supports 240p, I'm 99% sure of this. VP50 Pro will support it a little better I believe.

Even if it's not being properly handled you prefer the look of the scaling done on the scaling, that's fine specially for slower games and still images (and scaling is what a scaler does for a living), dealbreakers will be fast moving objects or background but you might still prefer it.

The issue is your TV probably softens the image a bit too much so on still images, like tile screens and the like, preferring the scaler is probably a no brainer.

It does not, I have the latest firmware for my VP50 and it still detects it as 480i (I've looked into it and it seems I'm not the only one with the problem, so it's not just me or something.) Either way I do like the way it looks and um, I've been mainly playing Mega Man X so fast moving doesn't seem to be a dealbreaker for me. I'm playing on the Gamecube MMX collection so there's no way it's just not telling me it's processing 240p because the menus are 480i and when plugged into my TV it flickers for a few moments when I go to the menus and change resolution but the VP50 doesn't even know the difference.

I'm not good as at perceiving frame rate differences as most of GAF is (though resolution is easy) so it's probably just one of those things I'm unable to perceive, which is fine by me.

 

[lostinblue]

You should be able to notice it if you were on the look out for it.

Image processing is pretty complex, the scaler could be using shortcuts to your advantage (does it have a game mode like the DVDO Edge?)

Anyway, it could be pulling stuff like non-deinterlace and simply linedoubling every frame (like the XRGB-3 does which is why it's not very regarded as a 480i processor... but it can save some 240p games being output at 480i that way)

I'm not too familiar with the VP50.

 

[Jamix012]

You should be able to notice it if you were on the look out for it.

Image processing is pretty complex, the scaler could be using shortcuts to your advantage (does it have a game mode like the DVDO Edge?)

Anyway, it could be pulling stuff like non-deinterlace and simply linedoubling every frame (like the XRGB-3 does which is why it's not very regarded as a 480i processor... but it can save some 240p games being output at 480i that way)

I'm not too familiar with the VP50.

The VP50 has 2 game modes, one of them is basically lagless (less than 10ms) but kind of looks like ass honestly and the other adds about a frame of delay but looks like 100 times better on 240p. So yeah, don't know what else to say.

The reason I have a VP50 (other than the fact I managed to pick it up for $50 which was an absolute steal) is because of it's 480i/576i scaling which looks absolutely incredible. I actually have a "spare" vp50 that I'm considering selling on. I should probably test to see if it works, but I wonder if anyone here would hypothetically want one, were I to sell it.

 

[NinjaCatfish]

Depends on what you consider epic!

I guess I'll post some cable porn and my display.

All Official cables. From left to right: Saturn rev1, Saturn rev 2, 3x PlayStation, Dreamcast, GameCube, PlayStation 2, Xbox and PlayStation 3 component which I use for PlayStation 2. Also after the SCART leads for Wii, Mega Drive and then SNES.

Display is a Sony KX-14CP1. I tend to use my desk setup to rotate machines as desired, the machines being on a shelf to the right of the desk. The SCART input on the side is ridiculously convenient too.

CRT 4 lyfe.

Currently excited at the prospect of finally RGB modding my PC Engine Duo R via this kit.

Man, that's such a nice setup. Clean, neat, functional and the image just looks perfect! Makes my setup look like the utter mess it is, haha!

_____
I only now have noticed how damn nice PSone games look when played through a PS2/Component/CRT combination. Looks so perfect!

I have noticed an issue with my CRT though which worries me. When it's got something connected via component and there are certain colours on screen, there is an area in the op left where the colour goes all weird. The blue sky in Klonoa had a weird purple tinge in that one corner.

Is this likely to be something I screwed up when trying to calibrate in the Service Menu, or a sign of the tube dying?

 

[lostinblue]

The VP50 has 2 game modes, one of them is basically lagless (less than 10ms) but kind of looks like ass honestly and the other adds about a frame of delay but looks like 100 times better on 240p. So yeah, don't know what else to say.

Yeah, if either of them was linedoubling it would be the less laggy one. Unless that's just how it operates but that would be weird considering the year it was produced.

The reason I have a VP50 (other than the fact I managed to pick it up for $50 which was an absolute steal) is because of it's 480i/576i scaling which looks absolutely incredible. I actually have a "spare" vp50 that I'm considering selling on. I should probably test to see if it works, but I wonder if anyone here would hypothetically want one, were I to sell it.

You probably could sell it easily to somebody here.

I've grown interested in a DVDO Edge myself, but I'm not in any kind of rush to get one.

I have noticed an issue with my CRT though which worries me. When it's got something connected via component and there are certain colours on screen, there is an area in the op left where the colour goes all weird. The blue sky in Klonoa had a weird purple tinge in that one corner.

Is this likely to be something I screwed up when trying to calibrate in the Service Menu, or a sign of the tube dying?

Sounds like it needs degaussing.

Which is pretty much doing the rain dance with magnets on hand next to a TV.

 

[Khaz]

Display is a Sony KX-14CP1. I tend to use my desk setup to rotate machines as desired, the machines being on a shelf to the right of the desk. The SCART input on the side is ridiculously convenient too.

I'd be wary of using the Scart too much, they aren't the sturdiest plugs known to man. You'd be safer to use an extender or a hub to plug your consoles: if you ruin it after extensive use, you're just down $10.

Sounds like it needs degaussing.

Which is pretty much doing the rain dance with magnets on hand next to a TV.

Consumer TV degauss when they wake up from standby (which is why they take 5 to 10 seconds before displaying something), CRT PC monitor usually have a dedicated button. I'd be surprised if professional-grade PVM don't have a function for degaussing.

 

[Peltz]

I just want to chime in, I have most products on Raphnet's page and initially used the SNES to GCN adapter for GBA games. However, I lucked out on scoring a Hori Digital pad on the cheap, and in comparison it's slightly more responsive.

As Raph himself will tell you, almost all of his adapters add at least a frame of lag. Most people won't be able to tell. But, it was noticeable enough for me after obtaining the Hori to make it my permanent go-to pad for GBA games.

 

[Peltz]

Only if you have a 720p display. If it's 1080p, forget about it.

Wait, so XRGB Mini isn't good for a 1080p hdtv? Why not?

If that's true, it's very disheartening to hear. I started putting money aside for one.

 

[lostinblue]

Consumer TV degauss when they wake up from standby (which is why they take 5 to 10 seconds before displaying something), CRT PC monitor usually have a dedicated button. I'd be surprised if professional-grade PVM don't have a function for degaussing.

Of course they do have a degauss coil. Everything does.

But sometimes that's not enough.


Which is why people bolt magnets onto black and deckers or buy degauss wands. It's a common fault, very fixable at that.

If not that then it is uneven aging, but more often than not it is a degauss fault.

 

[speedlolita]

I'd be wary of using the Scart too much, they aren't the sturdiest plugs known to man. You'd be safer to use an extender or a hub to plug your consoles: if you ruin it after extensive use, you're just down $10.

I think I'm okay given I only change the cables maybe twice a week. I'm wondering if you're referring to the socket on my display or my cables too.

The side panel is actually modular to the rest of the display so I could replace that SCART socket if needs be.

 

[baphomet]

Wait, so XRGB Mini isn't good for a 1080p hdtv? Why not?

If that's true, it's very disheartening to hear. I started putting money aside for one.

Its absolutely not true.

 

[NinjaCatfish]

Of course they do have a degauss coil. Everything does.

But sometimes that's not enough.


Which is why people bolt magnets onto black and deckers or buy degauss wands. It's a common fault, very fixable at that.

If not that then it is uneven aging, but more often than not it is a degauss fault.

I have tried doing the degauss when it turns on, as well as using the degauss option in the TVs menu but it remains.

I'll keep on the lookout for a degaussing wand then, I guess. Is there a DIY solution? I am thinking that finding a proper degauss wand these days would be pretty hard.

 

[lostinblue]

There is.

Kindergarden style:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDL6Fe6_IO8

Construction worker style:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQjFrjz6xg

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Wait, so XRGB Mini isn't good for a 1080p hdtv? Why not?

If that's true, it's very disheartening to hear. I started putting money aside for one.

Unless you're really anal about how fake scanlines look or just don't care whether you have them or not, then the 1080p output is fine.

And if you are picky about scanlines, then you can just set it to 720p.

 

[lostinblue]

Unless you're really anal about how fake scanlines look or just don't care whether you have them or not, then the 1080p output is fine.

And if you are picky about scanlines, then you can just set it to 720p.

Are you really anal? (do you use it set to 720p?)

 

[Sixfortyfive]

Are you really anal? (do you use it set to 720p?)

I'm so picky about input lag that I don't think the Framemeister is worth buying in the first place.

 

[NinjaCatfish]

There is.

Kindergarden style:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDL6Fe6_IO8

Construction worker style:

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TyQjFrjz6xg

Awesome, thanks!

Gave the Kindergarden style a try, since I'm a failure of a man and I don't own a power drill.
I also don't have an strong standalone magnets, so I rigged together this fantastic thing after seeing a different forum post on Google where a guy used a hard drive to degauss his screen.

It seemed to help a bit, but there was still a bit of an off colour blob, so I tried using the inbuilt degausser again, and it seemed to get rid of it for a while.

It's starting to creep back just a little, so I'll have to look out for some stronger magnets, but this has made the issue far less terrible than it started! Might try again with a full size hard drive if I can't find any proper magnets, I'm sure the magnets in those will be more effective than the little one I used.

(Also I am only using drives that are otherwise broken, so I don't have to worry about data loss. Just before anyone mentions I will destroy my data!)

 

[Khaz]

I think I'm okay given I only change the cables maybe twice a week. I'm wondering if you're referring to the socket on my display or my cables too.

The side panel is actually modular to the rest of the display so I could replace that SCART socket if needs be.

Twice a week is a lot. Scart were designed to be plugged and forgotten about, you plug in your VHS reader or your premium channel decoder and then just leave it for years. Scart sockets are usually soldered on a board, and the solder tend to break after repeated stress. Sometimes it's just the connection getting loose. It's a common issue with Scart, where you have to hold your cable in a certain position to get a picture.

 

[lostinblue]

Awesome, thanks!

Gave the Kindergarden style a try, since I'm a failure of a man and I don't own a power drill.
I also don't have an strong standalone magnets, so I rigged together this fantastic thing after seeing a different forum post on Google where a guy used a hard drive to degauss his screen.

That's pretty resourceful although I suspect said magnets in a hard drive are too small for this, perhaps a big speaker could do the trick.

It's not too hard to pull, the biggest thing going against it is that it's supposed to be totally random or something. Once (really) gone it shouldn't return, it's an issue of magnetic persistence or something along those lines.

Anyway, I don't think a degauss wand is worth it, everyone I know has done away with issues like that with magyverisms and got results. It's just a quirk.

(Also I am only using drives that are otherwise broken, so I don't have to worry about data loss. Just before anyone mentions I will destroy my data!)

It would be fine to use working ones providing they're not working at the moment, TV's are not a big magnet by any means so if anything it's the hard drive having an effect on the TV, not the opposite.

But it's fine (and advisable) to be careful when in doubt. If you get some magnets eventually don't let them get anywhere near to a (working) hdd.

 

[IrishNinja]

We're talking about it over in the Gamecube thread, but thought I'd let you lot know that the Gameboy Player on Gamecube can now be forced successfully into 240p using Swiss.

alright Peagles, now i gotta look into how this is done, or bother gunsmith some more to do it for me (the latter is highly likely)

A warning, the RetroUSB and it looks like the Raphnet (based on the mappings listed on their website) are very uncomfortable for GBA platformers where you have to run and jump simultaneously, since you'll be doing it with B and A and not Y and B on the SNES controller.

i really don't see this being a problem for me, i'm pretty adaptive over time with controllers. fucksake, my SMS arcade stick things from sega in the day were clearly made for left handed people

Also, guys.... I don't like the SNES controler.

poor televators...the last few decades of PSX controllers has likely been uninspiring

Can you use a GBA -> GCN link cable to use say, an OG game boy advance to control your Game Boy Player?

crap now i just remembered i need a link cable as well as a SNES controller adapter thing

Only if you have a 720p display. If it's 1080p, forget about it.

oh boy, one of these guys eh

ps props to speedlolita, that is indeed a neat looking setup!

 

[sixteen-bit]

poor televators...the last few decades of PSX controllers has likely been uninspiring

shit on the PSX controller all you want but how many standard controllers can stand tall as the weapon of choice for an EVO champion?

 

[IrishNinja]

oh no, i think the SNES to PSX layout we've basically had forever now is great & i'm a fan, i meant for poor televators

 

[sixteen-bit]

Oh, I get it now, lol.

 

[Peagles]

alright Peagles, now i gotta look into how this is done, or bother gunsmith some more to do it for me (the latter is highly likely)

It's not too hard. Just order an SD Media Launcher from Datel and you're good to go. Or if you have a modded cube already, just burn Swiss to a disc. Boom!
Although I'm not sure if it's worth the money if the Framemeister does all that work for you anyway.

 

[IrishNinja]

good call, going back to composite RF

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Guys, has anyone ever tried converting the limited edition classic SNES controller for Wii into an actual SNES controller? E.g. switching out the wires? Could this theoretically even work?

 

[Khaz]

Guys, has anyone ever tried converting the limited edition classic SNES controller for Wii into an actual SNES controller? E.g. switching out the wires? Could this theoretically even work?

Both controllers have the same shape and button placement, I suppose you could just swap the boards. I'm not sure what would be the point though.

They both use a microcontroller to encode the inputs and pass them to the console. In order to make an adapter you need to decode the signals then encode it for the SNES. It's not immensely difficult (it's just logic gates) but not something you can do by swapping wires.

 

[kitchenmotors]

Got my SCART to BNC adapter for my Sony PVM, so many settings to configure!

Took a while to get the size of the scan right. And the key is still off. The damn thing has the ability to manually move the guns listed in the manual via a service panel on the back.

What model PVM is that?

 

[baphomet]

It looks like a couple pvm 14n6u's I have.

 

[televator]

poor televators...the last few decades of PSX controllers has likely been uninspiring

Nah, that PS D pad is a torture device. Sega controllers for me. I love the Genny wireless and the Saturn pad. Those truly make other controllers uninspired IMO.

 

[IrishNinja]

id love to find that genny wireless for a good price one day! can't build the ultimate segazord without it too

 

[SegaShack]

Finally got my badboy of a PVM looking good. My problem was contrast was too low (even when turned up to max). I went into a menu and adjusted sub contrast and it was a nice start. Then I changed my NTSC setting from 7.5 into 0 and suddenly everything looked much much brighter, and the contrast was reset. Now I was able to get things perfect and after calibrating chroma and phase with the 240p test suite, things looked perfect.

Now of course, once I get my SCART cables I will recalibrate, but this is great for now.

Here is some pics I took:

Scan-line Porn:

This looks familiar!:

This is just from my cell phone, looks so beautiful in person that I want to cry. Can't wait for my RGB cords. Thanks again to everyone in this thread who has helped me out, especially lostinblue. PVM for life!

 

[speedlolita]

RGB will make you weep and wonder why you didn't use it earlier!

 

[SegaShack]

RGB will make you weep and wonder why you didn't use it earlier!

Composite already makes me want to cry. At that rate I am expecting a full on mental breakdown once I see RGB.

 

[BubbaMc]

Its absolutely not true.

Scanlines do not display properly at 1080p resolution. This is a known issue.

480p (top left), 720p (top right) and 1080p (bottom):

 

[BubbaMc]

Unless you're really anal about how fake scanlines look or just don't care whether you have them or not, then the 1080p output is fine.

And if you are picky about scanlines, then you can just set it to 720p.

Isn't this the exact market that Micomsoft is targeting with this device?