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US Vice-Presidential Debates 2016 |OT| Your Big Awkward Family Reunion

Who won the debate?

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E

EatinOlives

Member
Staccat0 said:
I actually think Pence's job was to make it seem like he wasn't insane and he did a good job. It's that when the VP needs to "look presidential" for the sake of the ticket.
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If that was his job then the GOP lost the debate before it even began. Nobody votes for a ticket despite an insane Presidential pick just because the VP sounds good when talking. That's just an awful strategy for them.

Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
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Kaine started off constantly interrupting Pence to call him out on random bullshit. Pence eventually got visibly uncomfortable because he had no answers to any of what Kaine was saying. Eventually Pence started interrupting just as much as Kaine did, and to "defend" Trump he either lied ("we never said that!" when they very obviously did), or he just straight up threw Trump under the bus (he admitted Trump was not "a polished politician" when defending one of his abhorrent statements).

Kaine was not aggressive in the way that Trump was aggressive. Kaine called out Pence on bullshit and made him squirm over and over as Pence continued to try to avoid defending Trump's shit. Trump, on the other hand, was aggressive by making clownshoes statements like "You've been fighting ISIS your whole life!", "WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!", "WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS? WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS? WHERE DID YOU FIND THIS?", and "I said very mean things to Rosie O'Donnell and she totally deserved it".
 
I

Ithil

Member
RDreamer said:
Of course it's real.

It's been a long time Republican strategy to attack the other side for their own weaknesses. It's why Romney/Ryan came out and started blasting Obama/Biden for wanting to destroy medicare despite Ryan literally trying to do that. They do it all the fucking time. Pence did it this debate when he was trying to say Clinton's campaign was one of insults.
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While Trump insulted Kaine's appearance on twitter, no less.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Gordon Shumway said:
Understatement of the decade..
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These fuckers on CNN sound like they are on a focus group for Cheezits or something. One guy actually said that he thought Kaine was hammering too hard on the tax thing, even though he does think there might be something to Trump's tax ties to Russia...what the fuck?
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
I mean, if all you were doing was listening to the tones of both mens' voices, then sure, Pence won for being the more calm one. But if you were listening to the words coming out of their mouths, he had little of substance to offer and his best play was to simply duck Kaine's challenges to defend Trump's various statements.

I'm sure someone could make a hilarious remix of all Pence's thin-lipped smiles during the debate.
 
O

Ozigizo

Member
Mollymauk said:
wat

kXPoY5k.jpg
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That's batshit insane.
 
D

Dan

No longer boycotting the Wolfenstein franchise
Pence is disgustingly shameless in denying all of Trump's nasty statements and policies.
 
G

Gattsu25

Banned
The Mule said:
I actually agree that Pence is likeable... on a surface level. The way he speaks and presents himself.

But if you actually listen to the content of what he's saying, it's all bullshit.

Just need to scratch the surface to see the fetid puss that is his soul.
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Agreed 100%

Okay...seriously going to go to sleep this time. It's fucking 12:42am

:((((
 
D

digdug2k

Member
I only heard the beginning of this on the drive home. Kaine sounded awful. I'm glad he's on the bottom of the ticket.

Like Pence tried to attack Hillary on Clinton Foundation shit and Kaine just retorted with "Trump's worse" shit. Just say "Yeah, it could be a conflict, that's why Congress made HIllary pledge to separate herself from it. That's why its good people have watched to make sure she kept that promise. Its why every investigation that's happened has shown her keeping that promise" Its a fucking example of why you should trust and vote for Hillary Clinton and instead he turned it into "Trump sucks. Show us your taxes".
 
R

RustyNails

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
These fuckers on CNN sound like they are on a focus group for Cheezits or something. One guy actually said that he thought Kaine was hammering too hard on the tax thing, even though he does think there might be something to Trump's tax ties to Russia...what the fuck?
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"thinking...HARD. Can I go back to watching Dancing with the stars?"
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Dan said:
Pence is disgustingly shameless in denying all of Trump's nasty statements and policies.
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it's not like we didn't know this from day 1, like from the 60 minutes interview. i mean, he agreed to be trump's vp.

digdug2k said:
I only heard the beginning of this on the drive home. Kaine sounded awful. I'm glad he's on the bottom of the ticket.

Like Pence tried to attack Hillary on Clinton Foundation shit and Kaine just retorted with "Trump's worse" shit. Just say "Yeah, it could be a conflict, that's why Congress made HIllary pledge to separate herself from it. That's why its good people have watched to make sure she kept that promise. Its why every investigation that's happened has shown her keeping that promise" Its a fucking example of why you should trust and vote for Hillary Clinton and instead he turned it into "Trump sucks. Show us your taxes".
Click to expand...

he said that an investigation from the state department revealed that the donations had no effect on her actions as secretary of state
 
T

Toxi

Banned
Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
Click to expand...
Because Trump was fucking stupid. The main takeaway from that debate wasn't Trump being aggressive, the main takeaway was Trump being an ignoramus.

The worst thing people are saying about Kaine is he was rude.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Member
EatinOlives said:
Kaine's job wasn't to be "likeable". His job was to show that Pence has zero answers to any of Trump's abhorrent behaviors and statements. And he succeeded.

Pence's job wasn't to sell himself. His job was to sell Trump has a viable, trustworthy candidate for the presidency. And he failed.

Obviously Kaine's strategy wasn't going to look good at a surface level, but he was specifically instructed to not let any of Pence's bullshit pass unchecked and he did that. They knew that silver-tongued Pence simply couldn't talk his way out of Trump's statements and actions. Starting tomorrow, the narrative will be about all the shit that Pence straight up lied about. By then the whole "but he sounded so soothing!" shit will have already been talked to death.
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Says who?
 
I

Ithil

Member
Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
Click to expand...

Because Trump was aggressive in the manner of a particularly stupid bull. He interrupted like a buffoon with nonsense, just yelling "WRONG" or dumb schoolyard crap.

Kaine interrupted, but it was with corrections or responses to what Pence was saying.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
rjinaz said:
Lol I was going to go with a Salem Protestant judge that takes pleasure in sentencing witches.

I don't know him personally, but I know his policies and they are quite disgusting. The dude legit gives me the chills.
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Salem Witch Trials, but in a struggling 21st century post-apocalyptic community.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
rokkerkory said:
Says who?
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Says the polls, where Trump is losing and needs to turn things around and bring new voters onto his side. This debate failed to do that. Someone on CNN put it perfectly: This debate was probably not the best for Kaine, but good for his campaign, while Pence's debate was good for him, but bad for his campaign.
 
I

Ithil

Member
digdug2k said:
I only heard the beginning of this on the drive home. Kaine sounded awful. I'm glad he's on the bottom of the ticket.

Like Pence tried to attack Hillary on Clinton Foundation shit and Kaine just retorted with "Trump's worse" shit. Just say "Yeah, it could be a conflict, that's why Congress made HIllary pledge to separate herself from it. That's why its good people have watched to make sure she kept that promise. Its why every investigation that's happened has shown her keeping that promise" Its a fucking example of why you should trust and vote for Hillary Clinton and instead he turned it into "Trump sucks. Show us your taxes".
Click to expand...
But Kaine did say that about the Foundation. He said it was a highly rated charity, and that it had been investigated and vetted to ensure nothing Clinton did in office was in the interests of the charity over the US.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
Click to expand...

It absolutely was an issue. Go back in the thread to when the debate first started. Most of us were cringing so hard at Kaine's behavior.

However, Kaine ended up making really solid points, whereas Trump just spewed more lies.
 
R

rjinaz

Member
Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
Click to expand...

These aren't the same people and there are different expectations. Trump's whole thing is being aggressive. His whole point of even doing these debates now is supposed to be appealing to the Independent voters not behind him and he went full Trump. It's a loss that he couldn't appear cool headed. Even Republicans continue to poll highly that Trump has a poor temperament. He failed to fix that image on the national stage.
 
M

MIMIC

Banned
V

VendettaRed07

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
These fuckers on CNN sound like they are on a focus group for Cheezits or something. One guy actually said that he thought Kaine was hammering too hard on the tax thing, even though he does think there might be something to Trump's tax ties to Russia...what the fuck?
Click to expand...
Bed of nails theory is a real thing. People are just having difficulty even processing all this crazy shit and are just choosing to operate like business as usual
 
R

rjinaz

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
It absolutely was an issue. Go back in the thread to when the debate first started. Most of us were cringing so hard at Kaine's behavior.

However, Kaine ended up making really solid points, whereas Trump just spewed more lies.
Click to expand...

Also this. People were being hard on Kaine and rightfully so when the debate started for interrupting Pence. He was getting hardly any support here, I know, I was reading each page or trying to keep up at least. But once he calmed down, A LOT, and took control, favor started to turn.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
Says the polls, where Trump is losing and needs to turn things around and bring new voters onto his side. This debate failed to do that. Someone on CNN put it perfectly: This debate was probably not the best for Kaine, but good for his campaign, while Pence's debate was good for him, but bad for his campaign.
Click to expand...
What polls? Says who?

Gattsu25 said:
Vox: Reports suggest Donald Trump is unhappy at Mike Pence for winning the VP debate
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Jeez oh man. I can't wait to hear what comes out of his next rally.

"Mike Pence won the debate! Destroyed Kaine. I'm proud, very proud. Did very well, although not too well if I'm being honest with ya. People are saying he did better than I did but I could have done much better. I won all of the Internet polls. He wasn't even my first choice to tell you the truth."
 
K

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Vermillion said:
So, I didn't watch the debate... but what I'm getting is Kaine was aggressive while Pence was calm.

But I see lots of people talking about how the style isn't important...

So why was it an issue when Trump was aggressive and Clinton was calm?
Click to expand...
Kaine was aggressive *and* and on point with arguments that were largely accurate and substantive. Pence was calmer but offering less substance and lied more frequently.

Being aggressive isn't necessarily an issue, by itself. Being aggressive only to cover for a lack of any substantive argument (like Trump did) is not a good look. And being overly aggressive when you also claim to have the best temperament, is even worse.
 
J

Jonm1010

Banned
I listened instead of watched most of the debate and I guess visuals help in that JFK/Nixon sort of way.

Personally, what I heard of it, I didn't think Kaine was all that bad.

With that said, I didn't think he was great. He definitely is one of the weaker VP's the Democrats have rolled out in some time. I know Warren serves a strategic purpose in the Senate but she would of been hot fire for Hillary in this election.
 
N

Ninja Scooter

Member
Titanoboa said:
What polls? Says who?
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The general election polls. Trump is behind. Even moreso if you look at the electoral map. He needs to gain ground. Simply staying the course does nothing for him. At best, tonight was a wash for him. Time is running out. Even if you think Pence edged out Kaine head to head, he did nothing to gain Pence new voters or tackle the issues that undecideds have with Trump.
 
R

ryutaro's mama

Member
Ninja Scooter said:
The general election polls. Trump is behind. Even moreso if you look at the electoral map. He needs to gain ground. Simply staying the course does nothing for him. At best, tonight was a wash for him. Time is running out. Even if you think Pence edged out Kaine head to head, he did nothing to gain Pence new voters or tackle the issues that undecideds have with Trump.
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He was making a SEZ WHO joke and you responded seriously. :(
 
H

HylianTom

Banned
rjinaz said:
Also this. People were being hard on Kaine and rightfully so when the debate started for interrupting Pence. He was getting hardly any support here, I know, I was reading each page or trying to keep up at least. But once he calmed down, A LOT, and took control, favor started to turn.
Click to expand...

As the debate progressed, it seems like more people began to realize what Kaine's long-term game was with this debate.

The light bulb moment might've been when Kaine actually called Pence out on refusing to defend Trump, citing the fact that Pence had failed on this 6 times. The fact that Kaine was keeping a mental count on this factor was a very big tell on what his strategy was for the evening.. and for beyond.
 
I

Ithil

Member
I wonder if the Clinton campaign expected Pence to avoid defending Trump, or were banking on him not to, hence why Kaine was so aggressive in attacking Trump. It's a pretty strong narrative of "Even his own VP won't defend him or agree with him" for the next debate.
 
T

Toxi

Banned
HylianTom said:
As the debate progressed, it seems like more people began to realize what Kaine's long-term game was with this debate.

The light bulb moment might've been when Kaine actually called Pence out on refusing to defend Trump, citing the fact that Pence had failed on this 6 times. The fact that Kaine was keeping a mental count on this factor was a very big tell on what his strategy was for the evening.. and for beyond.
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The other telltale thing is how Kaine never went after Pence's most obvious weakness: His shitty attitudes towards LGBT people.

Because Kaine wasn't going after Mike Pence; he was going after Donald Trump.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
Jarmel said:
Thought Pence did better. It's pretty surreal how he almost made Trump come across as not insane.
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No he didn't because he refused to comment on all the things that Kaine said that make him sound crazy.

I think some of Kaines interrupting went too far especially when he sounded like he was mansplaining to the moderator, but aggression is not a bad thing. The one thing Trump did well on was hitting Clinton in calling the TPP the gold standard and she had to dodge the question. His aggressiveness turned into idiocy though when he couldn't answer a single question and started talking about Rosie odonell

Also for better or worse the Clinton camp is not making this a republican vs democrat fight. By going after Pence directly they make this a liberal vs conservative race which is the thing they have avoided doing all along. Essentially Stump was right on what strategy they ended up taking.
 
A

Already Torn

Banned
Toxi said:
The other telltale thing is how Kaine never went after Pence's most obvious weakness: His shitty attitudes towards LGBT people.

Because Kaine wasn't going after Mike Pence; he was going after Donald Trump.
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This doesn't reflect poorly on Donald Trump though, it just shows that Crooked Hillary and the corrupt media are trying to build a campaign of hate against Trump with petty attacks instead of actual substance. Maybe they wouldn't have to go for such cheap shots if she didn't have so many scandals (emails anyone?) associated with her name (and not the Hillary part, if you know what nasty thing I'm thinking of involving her husband and infidelity).
 
G

Gordon Shumway

Banned
Ninja Scooter said:
These fuckers on CNN sound like they are on a focus group for Cheezits or something. One guy actually said that he thought Kaine was hammering too hard on the tax thing, even though he does think there might be something to Trump's tax ties to Russia...what the fuck?
Click to expand...

Son..I'm seeing it. It's like they're literally spinning against themselves. Load of nonsense lol.
 
J

Jarmel

Banned
metalslimer said:
No he didn't because he refused to comment on all the things that Kaine said that make him sound crazy.
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I thought he did a good job at presenting some of Trump's policies in more traditional lingo. He obviously twisted a lot of Trump's shit, in ways that Trump obviously didn't mean, but he made Trump come across almost as a traditional Republican.
 
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