People don't know the facts. As long as it sounds right to them, doesn't matter if it's actually true or has merit.
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US Vice-Presidential Debates 2016 |OT| Your Big Awkward Family Reunion
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Hellwarden
Member
A awkward family reunion indeed.
I love that Pence basically said that "facts don't matter, feelings do" on the same day that Trump did his whole "BigLieTeam" or whatever BLT it was. The campaign is so out of synch with itself.
From what I heard that's about right.
From what I heard that's about right.
If Kaine wanted simply to "win the debate" and nothing more, he would have attacked Pence himself far more and brought up more of Pence's reprehensible background and views.
This is not to say Kaine wanted to "lose", but what he was doing was putting Trump on blast for the entire debate, and that has caused the entire post-debate to be about how Pence couldn't defend his own running mate, not about how Pence was more smooth and composed.
The VP debate is not for the VPs to win or lose for themselves, it's for them to help their presidential candidate. I don't think Pence helped Trump at all here, he helped himself, while Kaine certainly helped Clinton overall.
uh, yeah man, she didn't "win" shit.
If you mean swing to the negative, I guess maybe I'll give you that, but that didn't happen in a debate and McCain wouldn't have won with ANY VP.
So, addendum: A VP can, historically speaking only lose. She is as much of an outlier as Trump though.
Tim Kaine (who won IMO) coulda sat back and reminded everyone Pence is a bigot if he wanted. His job, like almost all VPs, was to attack Trump though. People don't get to forget Trump's terrible week now.
Actually this might be gross but I kinda prefer Trump to Pence. Pence's pastoral, holier-than-thou, feigned outrage was gross. Maybe because it is more fresh in my mind.
Yes, but you're also defending people and the way they vote saying just because they may vote for Trump doesn't mean they are ok with racism, bigotry, etc because they may care about something esle. I dispute your claim.
pretty much. kaine "wins" when he steps foot into the white house
I'm sure they do. But Mike Pence would have lasted about two weeks in the Republican primary so what does that matter. Easy to make statements like that now. Someone voted these people to be the candidates.
There was no stopping Obama in 2008. The Republican party was total poison. Still is, but people some people seem to have forgotten.
DrForester
Kills Photobucket
I disagree.
Kaine: "So it's smart not to pay for our military, it's smart not to pay for veterans, it's smart not to pay for teachers, I guess all of us who do pay for those things, I guess we're stupid."
Of course it will be used horribly out of context, but I won't be surprised if "I guess we're stupid" is used in many ads.
fallingdove
Member
Taking your comment that he promotes "No Womens Rights".
There is a difference between anti-abortion and No Women's Rights. You contextualized his position in a much more extreme way, as you did with most of your call-outs.
Yeah. Pence is more generic Republican. He memorized the RNC playbook and it was on display tonight.
neurosisxeno
Member
"Why don't you trust women?"
That line is going to come up in every swing state they buy airtime in to try and ensure thye get 90% of the Woman Vote.
Hours Left
Member
I don't see how the Republicans could distill that into anything. Do you think they're gonna lop off the end?
The way Kaine presented it doesn't leave room for ambiguity.
I doubt it makes it into one TBH. Guys like Kaine and Pence only function in these things if you can pin it on their presidential candidate.
The people that trick would work on don't know who Tim Kaine IS.
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
He really can't defend Trump though, so he very smartly didn't even try to, but instead calmly deflected at every chance he got. Kaine did a good job of going on the attack, but Pence just handled it very well IMHO. Kaine's rebuttal on the Trump Foundation though was outstanding, not even Pence could turn that one around.
It was a pretty good debate, I honestly enjoyed it. They both pretty much accomplished what they had to do tonight: Kaine had to attack and succeeded, and Pence had to deflect and succeeded as well. But Pence did his job just a tad smoother and better IMHO.
elvisaintdead
Member
Watching this on a delay: Pence was talking about supporting community policing and mentioned that some sort of criminal justice reform should take place. He also attempted to make a half-hearted defense of stop-and-frisk. The thing about him talking criminal justice reform is that from what I can tell, there is no plan or policy on that subject from the Trump campaign. They've said "law and order" and they've said "stop and frisk" but no one knows what they'll actually do.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=donaldjtrump.com%20%22criminal%20justice%20reform%22
One of the google results I got when I initially searched Trump's website and "criminal justice reform" was an article about how Trump discussed the subject with some people in Philadelphia, but besides that there's nothing. I hope something more substantive comes up in one of the remaining two debates on the subject of Trump appearing to have no plan on criminal justice reform. He can't defend this one by claiming he needs to keep it a secret.
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/policies
https://www.google.ca/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=donaldjtrump.com%20%22criminal%20justice%20reform%22
One of the google results I got when I initially searched Trump's website and "criminal justice reform" was an article about how Trump discussed the subject with some people in Philadelphia, but besides that there's nothing. I hope something more substantive comes up in one of the remaining two debates on the subject of Trump appearing to have no plan on criminal justice reform. He can't defend this one by claiming he needs to keep it a secret.
Aeriscloud
Banned
Well he had to, since he couldn't defend a single thing trump said. You know, since "he didn't say that!"
I totally agree with everything you wrote here. It was sincerely engaging. They both did a good fucking job.
Yeah, hurricane + next debate will pretty much clear the air. The soundbites that will come out of it will live on in attack ads though.
rokkerkory
Member
Kaine was sent to attack not win
He accomplished that
He accomplished that
Still trying to see how people say Pence won. How can lying allow you to look better than anyone giving facts. Either he is incompetent when paying attention to his running partner and his policies, or he is just a straight out liar. Neither look good for someone trying to be Pres. / V. Pres.
fallingdove
Member
That makes no sense. You assume that everyone should be prioritizing racism and bigotry above all else. That just isn't always going to be the case. There are going to be people that care more about the economy or social security or whatever more than racism and bigotry and they are going to vote accordingly. Thats the reason Trump has the supporters he does.
Your Entertainer
Member
Someone with little knowledge of the actual issues or not paying attention, and that's pretty much it. In terms of actual substance and coherence it wasn't a contest. But it hasn't been with the GOP for over a decade now.
jack_package_200
Banned
wat
Dat projection tho
wat
Campaign manager was literally a Russian lobbyist.
rokkerkory
Member
Majority of americans watching doesn't know the facts
Dubbedinenglish
Banned
wat
Some 1440p projection there...shit maybe 4k.
wat
Play #1 you are doing what I am doing.
And coal.
Leona Lewis
Banned
Here's why Kaine won:
Most people who catch up on the debate will do so via clips. Every single clip compilation I've seen so far has featured front and center the lively, aggressive attacks that Kaine levels followed by Pence's exasperated non-defenses.
In other words, most people's only exposure to the debate will be seeing Kaine toss charges that either go unchallenged or go denied, which creates news because the archived footage contradicting Pence is right there waiting for the nightly comedy shows to mercilessly juxtapose.
It doesn't matter that he interrupted a lot or that Pence was more composed throughout, because the clips don't care to highlight those.
Most people who catch up on the debate will do so via clips. Every single clip compilation I've seen so far has featured front and center the lively, aggressive attacks that Kaine levels followed by Pence's exasperated non-defenses.
In other words, most people's only exposure to the debate will be seeing Kaine toss charges that either go unchallenged or go denied, which creates news because the archived footage contradicting Pence is right there waiting for the nightly comedy shows to mercilessly juxtapose.
It doesn't matter that he interrupted a lot or that Pence was more composed throughout, because the clips don't care to highlight those.
It's also why racism is institutionalized and will likely never go away. If you go out of your way to not see it, it either isn't your problem or it doesn't exist. Have you even heard some of the things Trump wants to do when he becomes president like remove immigrants and block all Muslims from entering this country? His latest take on police racism is we need more law and order (shut them down and up if you can't read between the lines). The people that vote for Trump because of a reason they see more important to them, are saying, well if those things happen they happen. I need mine.
wat
But doesn't he say Putin hates Clinton?
He must have decided he wants more coverage in the news, Trumps Russia ties to follow.
Fuckin hell this guy is dumb. Should stick to email attacks and slut shaming. Not issues where he has a much much worse record. Yet he begs people to dig into it? Wooooow.
It makes perfect sense if he's trying to appeal to traditional Republicans instead of the vocal minority of Pepe babies.
But it's not really a Trump pivot. It's the left hand not talking to the right hand.
MHWilliams
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Strange, that tweet came from an iPhone which means his people are saying that.wat
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