Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales

Noshino said:
Then be more careful with your money, research before you buy a game, after all, its 60 bucks.



There are many people that are not bothered by spoilers.

Also, to many of us it was about the journey. I was spoiled the end of Fight Club, yet I still wanted to see how it got there.



uh, yes?

Games are NOT the same as other entertainment products.
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Go figure. I'm talking about basics (BASICS!) here that need to be the same for all product.

And btw.: A prosperous used game market ensures that there will always be a demand for new games.
 
It's a free market world, if you don't like it (companies or anyone else) go fuck yourselves, I don't care. You can either adjust to the market or suffer the consequences. Controlling it and forcing monopolies and anti consumer behavior should be fought off, and companies that participate in such behavior be punished.

By the way, the fact that a developer might not get money from used games does not make them alike piracy. My suggestion is to make your product one that people would rather buy not used.
 
i bought HR new and paid full price, no problems. but if they decide to add some shitty drm or online code for their next game, i'll just wait for a bomba price or buy used.
 
Jarmel said:
Holy shit with these comments. This is making a Mass Effect thread look enjoyable. Damn.
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Nah.

This thread so far is the best part of my $60 (plus tax) purchase of Heavy Rain.

I'd say the game was utter garbage - but garbage implies that it was worth something at one point in time.
 
jgminto said:
Well there is also rentals and more than 1 person per household. I do hate the second hand market and try to avoid it whenever I can. Way worse than pirates.
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Words cannot express the LOL caused by this post.
 
Oh joy, another dev with entitlement issues. I'll make a point to only buy "his" product second hand from now on.
I do have a shrinkwrapped copy of heavy rain that i will now start lending out to as many friends as possible.
 
The game stayed too expensive for too long. Right now it's at a budget price but it took more than a year. If it was priced better a lot of used sales could have been avoided..
 
General Shank-a-snatch said:
If I read the entire thing and find out he's against used game sales then I'll hack your account and get a platinum for Hannah Montana.
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Deal <3
 
boris feinbrand said:
But but videogames are different. For every second hand game a developers kid is tortured and skinned alive.
That's how evil second hand buyers are.

As for your example: Porsche knows how much it can sell of a product and has no illusions about an evergrowing market which doesn't exist to begin with. Videogame publishers seem to have this mental illness that makes them believe that they can expand the market indefinetly.
And when sales don't match up with their lunacy, they blame the market instead of realizing their own fallacy.
In the end it just comes down to an extra monetization. And in videogames there is literally no shame as to how to suck out money out of customers. And thanks to a large portion of gamers not even caring about being ripped off this will only get worse in the coming years.
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Fortunately for me, I have enough self-respect to quit gaming, full-stop if this shit gets much worse.

That and I like my games to actually, um, BE GAMES.
 
Game Dev's need to quit all this noise about used game sales. According to this philosophy NOTHING should be sold second hand. Which is rediculous! I don't buy games used myself. Gamestop is a bunch of thieves imo. HOw the heck do they justify giving you $20 store credit and then turn around and sell the game for $55 (when the brand new copy is $60!) Devs if you want people to buy more games lower the fricken price of brand new ones and/or encourage discounts and deals on your games. I would more than likely buy more new games right after launch if they were priced at $30 or $40 rather than $50 and $60. Not every new games desrves to be price at $50 plus. Few do... Movies have budget titles Why can't games?
 
Fewr said:
I'm way ahead of you, I haven't even got a PS3.
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Same here brah. I wonder how much money we're costing those poor devs every day by not buying games. I mean, shit, I watched a Lets Play of Sonic 2006 on YouTube, technically I experienced the content.
 
Used Games Sales is the sacred cow or hot topic at the moment

If they curtail used game sales, watch all you new Day 1 $60 be the next targets

Gamers: "Grave your Mad, how is that even possible?"

Cause the devs are gonna go that they need to eat, and B&M are hurting them, do you realize the BestBuy & Amazon's of the world buy our game in Bulk!...GASP
We have to give it to them cheaper, so if a game is $60, we sell it to amazon or BB for $57 or $58, and they have the audacity to make $2 off us
Please buy DD, that $60 goes all to us. No middle man. Enjoy our hard work.

Person buys game, broken/glitchy/buggy/need multiple patches $60, hey WTF! I've been bamboozled, Dev: "U Mad Bro?"
 
Raide said:
Just be glad someone is buying Heavy Rain. Else it would be meeting up with ET in the desert.
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That's some great logic there.

I get what Guillaume de Fondaumiere is saying, and I try to buy most of my games new in order to support the developer, but I don't think you can map out missed sales as one-to-one.

I have no doubt that, had there been no option for used purchase, some of these people (maybe quite a few) would have bought the game new, but there are certainly some people who wouldn't have bothered with the game if they would have had to pay the price it takes to get a new copy.
 
Zaptruder said:
ITT: Neogaffers claw wildly at the proverbial face of another developer who speaks out against the used game market.


My take: Whether the developers are right or wrong on the subject, you're already seeing economic pressure towards developers to shaft the used games market, be it the use of single use codes or an increased emphasis on digital distribution. This pressure will simply continue to grow, until we reach the point where the physical games market is deprecated and the issue of used games and the brick and mortar stores that carry them, brushed aside into niches - as the market's ability to economically support the large gaming chains of today continue to dry up.
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"yessuh mr. corporation, i wil buy your game new, suh. I will not get mad when you complain about used games, no suh."
 
Given the choice of buying a new game and buying a used game that is only £3 cheaper in game, I always buy the new game. I think game are fleecing the publishers here.
 
Xellotah said:
Given the choice of buying a new game and buying a used game that is only £3 cheaper in game, I always buy the new game. I think game are fleecing the publishers here.
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i always buy used because it's cheaper and I would rather save money for myself than to save a corporation money and I have no love for publishers or developers. they'll keep on doing what they're doing, making millions, and I'll keep on doing what I'm doing, saving a few bucks because i'm not making millions.
 
Quantiq Dreams sounds like they got a case of Heavy Flow.

I'll buy new and used whenever the hell it suits me, thanks.
 
Maybe this would be less of a problem if Quantic Dream made better games.

RRpJV.jpg
 
Xellotah said:
Given the choice of buying a new game and buying a used game that is only £3 cheaper in game, I always buy the new game. I think game are fleecing the publishers here.
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Same logic

1 Gamer pays for a $60 game, gets to completion in 2 weeks, wants to "flip it" so he can bank that money and buy a new copy of another new title being released
He is selling the copy @$45-$50, if code thingy involved @$40, you interested?

Not every used sale is Gamestop oriented of -$3 to -$5 less than new original price
 
i don't hear car companies complaining about people buying used cars that are 5, 10, even 20 years old every day from unathorized (as in, ain't making the company any more money) outlets.
 
AshMcCool said:
Go figure. I'm talking about basics (BASICS!) here that need to be the same for all product.
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Except they can't.

The ways that companies can make money off their games is pretty narrow, specially when compared to film/tv, books, and music.

animlboogy said:
Fucking appalling that 2 million isn't enough. "but there's another million over there!" Shut up. There's a whole section of the gaming market that doesn't have a used counterpart. You're operating in the one that does. I'm so, so sorry you "only" moved 3 million copies.
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When did he say that 2 million wasn't enough?

He is just stating that there is a loss, which is true.
 
Fuck that.

Even Space Marine, a game I really like, was promoted as a singleplayer-heavy experience. Good as the campaign is, it's fucking short. And their online has been fucked. And their co-op is late, online-only, starved of maps and modes, and probably multi-player only. And they're selling online passes for it.

As much as I like Relic, THQ seem to want people to throw up their hands, say fuck you, and rent or buy used. It's not worth the fucking hassle.
 
I love renting

Gamefly 3 games out one time for $30/month was amazing for me, got to play so many great games
Account problems arose, account suspended, no big deal
3-5 more companies offering same service

Now I use RedBox, $2 a night, if you are like me a trophy whore, I know how to make it work for me. I platinumed DNF for $8, Transformers DOTM $4, etc.

I buy used off craigslist, some people don't know how to price accordingly, some do, and a good sale is made

I trade off craigslist too, sometimes you get lucky, 1 game of yours = 2 or hell even 3 of theirs (mostly a GOTY trades better due to DLC included etc)

I buy hella' cheap aka "Wario64 BOMBA!", I got dragons age II 1 month later for $15 brand new from BestBuy, got Fallout New Vegas for $10 from Best Buy (had to wait 6+ months, but I was patient, in the process I got to play a finished/patched version that removed freezes/bugs that earlier $60 Day 1'ers had to deal with)

I buy medium or to good to pass up price, recently bought DCUO for PS3, the Collector's Edition for $40, MSRP is really $80-$100

I buy DAY 1 or Pre-Order games too. BF3 will be my purchase for it, might do it for Dark Souls, or might just wait till Black Friday and get those ridiculous deals that come out around that time.
Hell I just spent $130 on 7.1 Surround Sound headsets (Turtle Beach DPX21) for BF3, that is how much I love that series, same as those Street Fighter fans go buy arcade/tournament sticks)


Burai said:
He should make the sequel download-only. That will solve all of his problems.
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Then his next rant will be gamers are spoiled, DD medium isn't built for his masterpiece, that retail was where it was at...oh wait
 
Arcblade said:
Fortunately for me, I have enough self-respect to quit gaming, full-stop if this shit gets much worse.

That and I like my games to actually, um, BE GAMES.
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I don't think it comes to that. Every industry that really tried going against consumer interests on this level has gotten a kick to the balls. And videogame publishers are allready treading on thin ice. Shitting their own bed is not going to help them.

Still, it will only get worse from here on out. The question is: Will consumers actually do make the choice to not support such money grabbing schemes or will they just obey their corporate overlords.

Zenith said:
Shouldn't the thread title be "Used games market saves money for over a million Heavy Rain customers"?
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"Over one million Heavy Rain customers get partially refunded thanks to used game market"

Would be even better.
 
he's just saying out loud what most developers are thinking every time they look back on a game that wasn't QUITE awesome enough to sell like mad.

this isn't a problem with HR and this isn't a problem with the used game market (in this specific instance). it's really just bad timing and marketing. HR was a great game, and i STILL see people to this day picking it up and playing it multiple times through. people don't generally do that with a game that's complete shit.

not to back up his point, just saying as a side note, there ARE plenty of other reasons to pick up a game used instead of new these days. it's not JUST about quality of the game or the price of admission. a lot of factors go into it. sometimes the creative vision of the game is at odds with the cost of development and subsequent price of admission. so although sometimes i have to buy used or wait for a price drop, i still salute developers that stick to their guns and make the game they really wanted to make. ESPECIALLY those that refuse to shoe-horn in a bullshit MP mode that nobody will play and they wasted dev money/time on.
 
I'm all for devs getting the money they deserve and all, but...shouldn't a consumer's responsibility be to get their entertainment for a value they feel is worth it to them?

I mean, if developers are losing out money because people don't want to buy $50-$60 games at launch every few weeks, shouldn't they simply rethink their business strategies instead of blaming consumers for taking a completely legal third option? Developers/publishers are trying to look out for #1, so why should they blame consumers for doing the exact same thing?

I'm going to continue to buy used games because they are cheaper and because I have no obligation to support developers/publishers at the expense of my wallet. If I see a new launch game I feel is worth the price, then I'll buy it new and they'll see my money. If I see a new launch game that I do not feel is worth the price, then I'll buy it used later on or not at all (not too big a fan of renting, as I prefer the sensation of permanently owning my stuff) and they won't see my money. Simple enough. I'm not sure why gaming in particular has this problem.
 
I hate this argument its the same with pirated games (not that I’m endorsing pirating) its the logic that if everyone bought the game at full price instead of pirating or buying second hand we would make this much money. its a logical fallacy because it makes the assumption if the other ways of obtaining the game were impossible people would defiantly purchase the game at full price, when in reality the only reason these people played the game is because they could get it cheap or free.

basically a bullshit argument with no data to support it
 
SmokyDave said:
How did he rule out two or more people in the same household playing the same copy?
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He didn't. He just likes waffling.

He should be asking why over 1m gamers who purchased the title chose not to keep it. That tells the true story of Heavy Rain.
 
boris feinbrand said:
I don't think it comes to that. Every industry that really tried going against consumer interests on this level has gotten a kick to the balls. And videogame publishers are allready treading on thin ice. Shitting their own bed is not going to help them.

Still, it will only get worse from here on out. The question is: Will consumers actually do make the choice to not support such money grabbing schemes or will they just obey their corporate overlords.
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I am making that choice already.

I refuse to by games with "first buyer incentives" or codes.

I refuse to buy any < day 1 DLC. Which is pretty much all of it, these days.

I refuse to buy any game that is "online only".

I refuse to buy ANY retail game from publishers who stoop to these practices.

EA and Activision have already seen the last dollar that they are EVER going to see from me (I forewent MK due to that shite), and I've sold ALL of my copies of whichever of their games I had bought previously (Dead Space, etc.)

If other companies go the same route, I'll stop funding their piss poor treatment of their user base.


boris feinbrand said:
"Over one million Heavy Rain customers get partially refunded thanks to used game market"

Would be even better.
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Indeed it would.

I wish I could have gotten a full refund, personally.
 
Noshino said:
When did he say that 2 million wasn't enough?

He is just stating that there is a loss, which is true.
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no, there isn't a *loss.* He just wants you to think he's "losing" so that people will be sympathetic. He doesn't know whether people who picked it up used were going to buy new.
 
Why does the video game industry think they are so special that they should be the only industry in the entertainment business who thinks they deserve a cut out of secondhand sales?

The music industry has lost this fight on both legal grounds and in the court of public opinion. The publishing industry is full of authors who have their books read secondhand. Are they pissed off because of the existence of public libraries? Do they think they need a cut of every book sold at a garage sale, or used book store?

The more I see people in the games industry complain about this, the more pathetic they look to me. They're all looking for some scapegoat as to why their game didn't sell more. Used sales and piracy are the favorite reasons the whiners like to use.
 
General Shank-a-snatch said:
That article was amazing, gaming journalist could learn a thing or two from it.
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That would require most of them to develop journalistic integrity first. Then they would need to stop being PR news channels as well.
 
dogmanstaruk said:
He should be asking why over 1m gamers who purchased the title chose not to keep it. That tells the true story of Heavy Rain.
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Like Ayn Rand books. You could reach the moon with a stack of Atlas Shruggeds from 2nd hand bookstores.
 
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