Used market cost Heavy Rain 1m sales
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SmokedMeat
Gamer™
Anteater said:
They're costing these guys millions in royalties! How can they continue buying Starbucks coffee twice a day, while driving their Porsches, when gamers are loaning their game out to friends?
No one borrowed games, or bought used back in the old Genesis and SNES days! I feel so bad for today's developers.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
A thread about Cage whining about used game sales and GAF shitting on Heavy Rain as usual. Double whammy.
fabricated backlash
Member
bill0527 said:
In the case of books, publishers actually expect a readership of at least 3 readers on one copy. It's a lot higher for newspapers and magazines.
Car dealers know that the life of a car mostly doesn't end when the first owner decides to sell it.
The videogame industry simply has fallen over its own idiocy, believing that endless growth was possible. At the first sign of stagnation, they started to panick and instead of analyzing the situation, realizing that they might have reached a level of saturation they start blaming everyone but themselves.
Just look at the Bullshit that Ubisoft is spouting: We need new hardware to see a creative push. Bullshit. They need new hardware to get more money from investors to grow at a similar rate like they did before.
SmokyDave said:
Maybe because no one would be cruel enough to torture people close to him by making them watch Heavy Rain themselves?
brucewaynegretzky
Member
ShinUltramanJ said:
Huh?
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
RedSwirl said:
They just released Far Cry 2 on the PSN for FUCKING $29.99, yes a DD version of a 2+ year old game
Disc version you can pick up for $5+ if your looking at the right places
New should be $19.99 or less by now
DD is just another way to get all these Pro-Dev people drinking the kool-aid, por dev gamers: hey we are supporting our industry YAY!, why is my game not working, dev hello?, hello?, dev: BRB still counting the money we made off you ignorant consumers, but don't forget DLC next week, only $9.99 for the 100kb key, pro-dev gamers :YAY!
Combichristoffersen said:
Did you even read the OP?
One is not like the other even if the spew some the same bullshit
They need to do this with houses...just think of the awesomeness of our economy if there were no rentals or used housing. Cars too.
I know media is different, but they need to take a step back. If there is a healthy market to sell games in, more people are apt to buy a new one....knowing that they can recoup some of the cost. When I was on a tighter budget this was a consideration. $60 is just too much $$ for something that might have limited play value.
Secondly as many have said, other household members, friends borrowing are many of the numbers as well.
Also, similar to some the arguments you hear with piracy (because they are true) just because something was shared or even played doesn't equal a lost sale. There was a reason these people playing second hand didn't pay full price, 50% of the people might find it is only worth 50% of the price or even less. I've played games I was barely interested when they land in $10 bargain bins or my friend hands one to me to try out.
I know media is different, but they need to take a step back. If there is a healthy market to sell games in, more people are apt to buy a new one....knowing that they can recoup some of the cost. When I was on a tighter budget this was a consideration. $60 is just too much $$ for something that might have limited play value.
Secondly as many have said, other household members, friends borrowing are many of the numbers as well.
Also, similar to some the arguments you hear with piracy (because they are true) just because something was shared or even played doesn't equal a lost sale. There was a reason these people playing second hand didn't pay full price, 50% of the people might find it is only worth 50% of the price or even less. I've played games I was barely interested when they land in $10 bargain bins or my friend hands one to me to try out.
Pachterballs
Banned
Danielsan said:
it was his creation. so he was referring to it as such.
some of you guys are so... ...
right.
SmokyDave said:
Because used game sales is the current enemy. Two people in the same houshold sharing a copy is not the enemy yet, so they are few and far between in these estimates.
They will increase in these estimated numbers once they have been designated the new "enemy of my bottom line" by the gaming industry. But I think they will crack down on "people who lend games to their friends" first.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
1) Make games with smaller budgets
------ Know your target audience; realistically project how much you think your game will sell, and budget your game with the assumption that it will sell no more than half of what you project.
------------ Also, assume that half of your budget will go toward marketing the game. No one's going to buy a game they don't know exists.
------------------ Focus your budget only on what your game needs, not what you want it to have. I love Shenmue as much as the next person, but unless you can afford to bleed money into a project, focus less on superficial extras and only focus on the game at hand.
2) Fully develop a concept before entering development.
------ One of the biggest obstacles game development has today is not having the entire blueprint before beginning production. Imagine building a skyscraper with only 20% of the blueprint finished. That's asking for trouble down the road that will lead to delays, reworkings, and budget inflation.
3) Don't force your game out of the door the second it's done
------ Take time to market it, find a timeframe to release where it's going to stand out from the crowd. If you release a game sandwiched between bigger and more established games/franchises, you're asking to fail.
4) ???
------ ???
5) Profit
------ Make money and be happy.
------ Know your target audience; realistically project how much you think your game will sell, and budget your game with the assumption that it will sell no more than half of what you project.
------------ Also, assume that half of your budget will go toward marketing the game. No one's going to buy a game they don't know exists.
------------------ Focus your budget only on what your game needs, not what you want it to have. I love Shenmue as much as the next person, but unless you can afford to bleed money into a project, focus less on superficial extras and only focus on the game at hand.
2) Fully develop a concept before entering development.
------ One of the biggest obstacles game development has today is not having the entire blueprint before beginning production. Imagine building a skyscraper with only 20% of the blueprint finished. That's asking for trouble down the road that will lead to delays, reworkings, and budget inflation.
3) Don't force your game out of the door the second it's done
------ Take time to market it, find a timeframe to release where it's going to stand out from the crowd. If you release a game sandwiched between bigger and more established games/franchises, you're asking to fail.
4) ???
------ ???
5) Profit
------ Make money and be happy.
Kenshin001
Member
dogmanstaruk said:
Have you ever been in a shop that sells used games? This may surprise you but you will see multiple used copies of best selling/popular games on the shelves. Pretty sure the ratio would apply to almost every critically praised game made this generation, especially those that are narrative based and don't have a MP component. I've bought several used games and borrowed games off friends. Last one was Dead Space 2 which was really enjoyable.
plagiarize
Banned
what?jgminto said:
StealthGoblin
Banned
Cheech said:
FFS. Yeah, he's a child for wanting money for something he produced to sell.
Come on, there is a middle ground here and the games industry needs to find it. One day the balance of power will tip away from Gamestop and GAME and the publishers will have more power. Only then (I think) will we see publishers get 'something/anything' for the sale of a used game.
fabricated backlash
Member
RurouniZel said:1) Make games with smaller budgets
------ Know your target audience; realistically project how much you think your game will sell, and budget your game with the assumption that it will sell no more than half of what you project.
------------ Also, assume that half of your budget will go toward marketing the game. No one's going to buy a game they don't know exists.
------------------ Focus your budget only on what your game needs, not what you want it to have. I love Shenmue as much as the next person, but unless you can afford to bleed money into a project, focus less on superficial extras and only focus on the game at hand.
2) Fully develop a concept before entering development.
------ One of the biggest obstacles game development has today is not having the entire blueprint before beginning production. Imagine building a skyscraper with only 20% of the blueprint finished. That's asking for trouble down the road that will lead to delays, reworkings, and budget inflation.
3) Don't force your game out of the door the second it's done
------ Take time to market it, find a timeframe to release where it's going to stand out from the crowd. If you release a game sandwiched between bigger and more established games/franchises, you're asking to fail.
4) ???
------ ???
5) Profit
------ Make money and be happy.
6) get torn to shreds on online message boards for being so conservative and behind the times.
Derrick01 said:
What has the used games market done to gaming in the last 25 years? Or do you talk about how publishers try to eliminate a peripheral market and fuck over their own consumers in the process?
Pachterballs
Banned
I'm fine with ebay/2nd sales. I'm pretty much against EBgames/Gamestop used game programs.
Its basically channelling money to the retailer and not the game developers. You want more games, better games; game developers should get their just dues.
Not just QD; every game dev.
* added "get"
Its basically channelling money to the retailer and not the game developers. You want more games, better games; game developers should get their just dues.
Not just QD; every game dev.
* added "get"
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
GraveRobberX said:
Oh snap. I read the OP, but glanced over the name and just assumed it was Cage. Either way, his moaning about used game sales is shameful.
corporate cheerleader
Member
Derrick01 said:
http://www.the-ghetto.org/content/used-video-games-the-new-software-piracy
Read this.
crowphoenix
Banned
Hell, it's the only enjoyable thing about the game.ultron87 said:
sixteen-bit
Member
That's why they need multiplayer and online passes.
Pachterballs said:
Yup pretty much how I feel. Publishers are going to increasingly ridiculous depths to try and eliminate that market because of all the moochers and it's going to get to the point where legitimate buyers are going to get hurt. Like crazy DRM on PC because of pirates.
Night_Trekker
Member
Derrick01 said:
fabricated backlash
Member
Derrick01 said:
But that's not up to publishers to decide. If it is legal for Gamestop to offer their used game sales market, then the only thing publishers should do is challenge that in court. But they know that doing so might fuck their chances of including ridiculous shit into their games that border on consumer right violations. (DRM, locking of on disc content)
No it's much better to call consumers thieves and fuck them over without seeking a legal confrontation that would most definetly set their efforts to grab even more money from consumers way back.
vodka-bull
Member
If I knew how bad HR was, I would've bought it fourth or fifth hand.
I rarely buy short, single player-only experiences for full price.
But when I do, I sell them once I finish them.
David Cage, think about it. Why would any player want to keep your game once he played through it one or more time? Why?
So then. Either develop a constantly upgraded/expanded hardcore multiplayer game, or do not, but then do not expect players who bought your game to actually keep it. We are not living in an age when one can afford to keep games just for the sake of it, when they can get some of their money back.
But when I do, I sell them once I finish them.
David Cage, think about it. Why would any player want to keep your game once he played through it one or more time? Why?
So then. Either develop a constantly upgraded/expanded hardcore multiplayer game, or do not, but then do not expect players who bought your game to actually keep it. We are not living in an age when one can afford to keep games just for the sake of it, when they can get some of their money back.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
If you consider the costs in time, manpower and money required to make a game in the 8/16 bit eras compared to something like Heavy Rain or any other modern AAA title, and then you consider the retail price then to now, I don't think gamers are getting that bad a deal.
Honestly, from some of the comments here you'd think that making games, particularly big-budget games, is a license to print money. Something that simply isn't true if you look back at the number of studios/publishers that go under each year.
Don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have more and better games to choose from.
And if you want that, you should be siding with the people who actually make them, not unscrupulous middle-men who have simply jumped into the market because they smell a quick buck.
Honestly, from some of the comments here you'd think that making games, particularly big-budget games, is a license to print money. Something that simply isn't true if you look back at the number of studios/publishers that go under each year.
Don't know about you guys, but I'd rather have more and better games to choose from.
And if you want that, you should be siding with the people who actually make them, not unscrupulous middle-men who have simply jumped into the market because they smell a quick buck.
People who don't buy used are not more of a legitimate buyer than anyone who buys used games. Both are legitimate buyers. Game developers should not get their fair dues from used games since they don't own the games, since these are games they have already sold once to someone. They should get nothing, 0. Of course If people want to not buy used games, they should do so.
KnightAttack
Member
V_Arnold said:
Heavy Rain wasn't really that short, unless you're comparing it to like a Single Player RPG. It is good, and very replayable. There a lot of different endings, and a lot of different conversation trees to go down.
If that's a poke about Cage's early comments, he said it was taken out of context. He meant it more in the fact that he wanted players to not try and change their choices, he wanted you to stick with them.
Night_Trekker
Member
Clear said:
I ultimately don't care at all about developers or publishers, even the ones who make games I love. It's up to them to run their businesses and come out in the black, not up to me. I'll buy a game if I want it, and if I want it used and cheaper because the new price is too high (in the middle of an economic downturn, no less), I'll buy it used. If they go under, it's their own fault for not adapting.
Electivirus
Member
Night_Trekker said:
I like you. Let's be friends.
I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.
RurouniZel said:1) Make games with smaller budgets
------ Know your target audience; realistically project how much you think your game will sell, and budget your game with the assumption that it will sell no more than half of what you project.
------------ Also, assume that half of your budget will go toward marketing the game. No one's going to buy a game they don't know exists.
------------------ Focus your budget only on what your game needs, not what you want it to have. I love Shenmue as much as the next person, but unless you can afford to bleed money into a project, focus less on superficial extras and only focus on the game at hand.
2) Fully develop a concept before entering development.
------ One of the biggest obstacles game development has today is not having the entire blueprint before beginning production. Imagine building a skyscraper with only 20% of the blueprint finished. That's asking for trouble down the road that will lead to delays, reworkings, and budget inflation.
3) Don't force your game out of the door the second it's done
------ Take time to market it, find a timeframe to release where it's going to stand out from the crowd. If you release a game sandwiched between bigger and more established games/franchises, you're asking to fail.
4) ???
------ ???
5) Profit
------ Make money and be happy.
Unfortunately to meet most of these points they need to have a lot of power, but then again, even powerful successful companies don't meet all of your points above.
General Shank-a-snatch said:
While he has some points, the article has a very bias tone, sounds a lot like a conspiracy junkie.
EDIT: yeah, after reading his other articles....this guy is seriously a conspiracy junkie
CadetMahoney
Member
this, there wasn't much of a game to begin with. Interactive movies. . .bah!Stabby McSter said:i borrowed it from my friend, and i even felt ripped off