Support NeoGAF

[alr1ght]

I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.

well I tell them to suck it up and don't ship gamestop new copies and don't partner with gamestop to offer exclusive dlc. They won't, of course because gamestop sells a huge amount of new copies.

 

[HK-47]

Shocked at the Heavy Rain hate. Skimmed and read hyperboles of "piss poor voice acting" (USA version?) and "terrible story". Everyone has their own opinion . But jeez. I thought it was a great experience.

You also thought Other M had a good story, didnt you?

 

[Night_Trekker]

I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.

First of all, it's always primarily about the consumer. Developers make games to sell to consumers.

Second, nobody is stopping the publishers from altering their business models. Once again: Why not lower budgets? Why not go for a smaller piece of the pie with games tailored to smaller subsections of the game-buying audience? Why not develop for platforms where the cost of developing will be lower? Why not go DD-only and cut out the middle man?

Answer: because it's easier to whine.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

Aka 1 million people thought heavy rain was overpriced.

Aka being interested enough to get 1 trophy is the same as being ready to buy the game

I wonder how many dozens of evil people have profited off of my dvd collection

 

[Emitan]

You also thought Other M had a good story, didnt you?

THE BABY JASON THE BABY JASON THE BABY JASON

Masterpieces, the two of them.

 

[V_Arnold]

First of all, it's always primarily about the consumer. Developers make games to sell to consumers.

Second, nobody is stopping the publishers from altering their business models. Once again: Why not lower budgets? Why not go for a smaller piece of the pie with games tailored to smaller subsections of the game-buying audience? Why not develop for platforms where the cost of developing will be lower? Why not go DD-only and cut out the middle man?

Answer: because it's easier to whine.

Wow, where is the "jump to conclusions" mat when we need it?

You honestly, seriously think that that is "why"? Really?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Price your game at $40. Release free content regularly. And most of all, make a better game, you fuckhead.

 

[fabricated backlash]

I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.

Again, let publishers take their complaints to court instead of fucking over consumers. But they won't because they know that they are going to lose big time.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

GameSpot is evil.

There is no GameSpot in my country, do you think it is fair that we also get screwed over by online passes and other stupid pub tactics?

 

[Gustav]

well I tell them to suck it up and don't ship gamestop new copies and don't partner with gamestop to offer exclusive dlc. They won't, of course because gamestop sells a huge amount of new copies.

And that's a big fucking problem. I wish they could cut off Gamestop permanently, otherwise publishers are just enabling them.

 

[fabricated backlash]

While he has some points, the article has a very bias tone, sounds a lot like a conspiracy junkie.

EDIT: yeah, after reading his other articles....this guy is seriously a conspiracy junkie

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. While I agree that his tone is very much biased in that he pushes an agenda, his observations hold true.

 

[Gustav]

There is no GameSpot in my country, do you think it is fair that we also get screwed over by online passes and other stupid pub tactics?

Glad to hear you don't have a Gamestop in your country. All major western gaming markets do, though. I guess you'll have to live with that.

 

[kitch9]

Did it fuck.

 

[corporate cheerleader]

Glad to hear you don't have a Gamestop in your country. All major western gaming markets do, though. I guess you'll have to live with that.

People who aren't part of the problem get bullied and just have to deal with it. Sounds fair to me.

 

[Electivirus]

I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.

Why should I care about the relationship between Gamestop and the developers/publishers? I am none of those entities. I haven't been to a single Gamestop that's treated me poorly. Good trade-in deals, nice employees, a wide variety of games to choose from (both used and new)...none of them have attempted to screw me over yet. It certainly seems, however, that publishers/developers are far more willing to do so.

 

[Gustav]

Again, let publishers take their complaints to court instead of fucking over consumers. But they won't because they know that they are going to lose big time.

Well, let's see your complaints go to court then. If that's the only measure you have.

 

[Gustav]

Why should I care about the relationship between Gamestop and the developers/publishers? I am none of those entities. I haven't been to a single Gamestop that's treated me poorly. Good trade-in deals, nice employees, a wide variety of games to choose from (both used and new)...none of them have attempted to screw me over yet. It certainly seems, however, that publishers/developers are far more willing to do so.

You don't have to care about it, but it would be nice if some people in this thread would understand that the whole problem is far more complex than: "PUBLISHERS SCREW ME OVER! FUCK THEM! WILL NEVER BUY GUYHOMO DE DWOAIHFOAEFH GAME AGAIN!"

 

[crowphoenix]

THE BABY JASON THE BABY JASON THE BABY JASON

Masterpieces, the two of them.

My copy glitched during the "Find Jason" section. Rather than disappearing, Jason walked about ten feet away and stood there. Yelling "Jason!" while standing by Jason was probably the best experience in Heavy Rain.

 

[Prez]

What about the lost sales from people playing the game TWICE? :O

 

[ultron87]

Price your game at $40. Release free content regularly. And most of all, make a better game, you fuckhead.

Take a significant chunk out of your profit margin while doing stuff that costs even more money. I don't see what could possibly go wrong.

(I'm mostly referring to the pricing and free content portions of the quoted message. I am not saying that you can't make a good game for cheap.)

 

[alr1ght]

And that's a big fucking problem. I wish they could cut off Gamestop permanently, otherwise publishers are just enabling them.

They won't because they know they'll lose a shitton of new sales. People trade in games and buy new ones.

 

[Emitan]

My copy glitched during the "Find Jason" section. Rather than disappearing, Jason walked about ten feet away and stood there. Yelling "Jason!" while standing by Jason was probably the best experience in Heavy Rain.

That sounds awesome.

"JASON"
"Yeah, dad?"
"WHERE ARE YOU JASON"
"Right here"
"JASON? JASOOOOOOOOOOON!"

 

[LQX]

A game like Heavy Rain with no reply value and relatively short play times or the games I usually buy used or wait until there is huge drop off in price. They would not have got a full retail price purchase out of me either way.

 

[chemicals]

These people that are so focused on profit seem to forget the fact that MORE PEOPLE PLAYING YOUR GAME IS A GOOD THING! How can you think otherwise, as an artist?

 

[Night_Trekker]

Wow, where is the "jump to conclusions" mat when we need it?

You honestly, seriously think that that is "why"? Really?

It's easier to blame someone else than to deal with the root of the problem, yes. Studios are dropping like flies after a single bomb. Over and over and over again. That's ridiculous. Something needs to be done, and that something isn't "tell the buyer of legal used games s/he is a thief." In truth, developers would benefit most from rethinking their game development and publishing models. They need to do business more efficiently and intelligently. But instead of doing anything smart (see the post you quoted for a few ideas), they blame the consumer.

What about the lost sales from people playing the game TWICE? :O

Holy shit, someone alert Cage!

 

[Boerseun]

Heavy Rain is, in my opinion, the worst game to be released on consoles this generation. From the horrible controls to the horrible gameplay and badly conceptualised challenges, from the horrible writing to the horrible acting, from the horrible frame rate to the copious screen tearing and awful animation, the game just doesn't work. The sad thing is that the art assets, which could have been used in making a great game, is sitting right there in front of you the whole time. The textures, environments and models could have been used in making a great adventure game, a true adventure game, not this rather poor excuse for an interactive movie.

 

[Freyjadour]

So this is the "watch GAF play expert" thread. Gotcha.

 

[crowphoenix]

That sounds awesome.

"JASON"
"Yeah, dad?"
"WHERE ARE YOU JASON"
"Right here"
"JASON? JASOOOOOOOOOOON!"

I ran around him for a few minutes shouting it. In my mind, Jason threw himself in front of the car because his dad drove him nuts. Because that's the only reason I can see for his death.

 

[plagiarize]

I think most of you people are missing the point. This is not about you, the consumer, selling or lending your game. It's about gamestop who turned used games sales into a big fat market with high margins on the backs of publishers and developers. This is absolutely unprecedented on this scale. There is no other chain that made a business model out of pushing used DVDs, CDs or anything similar on a global scale. And it's a problem. You will get used games at gamstop two days after release with a 5$ discount that most people will gladly take. And that fucks publishers over. It's the organized undercutting of publishers by one of the major partners.

there is only one way that you can get used games at gamestop mere days after release. oddly, the more value a game offers, the fewer used copies show up at gamestop right after release.

weird that.

 

[Monty Mole]

I rented it and I'm glad I did. It was a fun experience but too short-lived to warrant £40 of my hard-earned cash. Not sure why Mr Cage didn't factor rentals in to the equation too.

And on that note, Hollywood don't moan about rentals. Perhaps the videogame industry should take the Hollywood route of charging more for rental copies.

 

[ultron87]

These people that are so focused on profit seem to forget the fact that MORE PEOPLE PLAYING YOUR GAME IS A GOOD THING! How can you think otherwise, as an artist?

When it costs millions of dollars to get your game created you are forced to think about profit.

 

[Typographenia]

The Heavy Rain is from Guillaume de Fondaumiere's tears as he laments the norm.
Really, guy? Really?

Spoiler

I still like what Heavy Rain did. Don't hurt me.

 

[Dead Man]

well I tell them to suck it up and don't ship gamestop new copies and don't partner with gamestop to offer exclusive dlc. They won't, of course because gamestop sells a huge amount of new copies.

Yep.

 

[The Take Out Bandit]

Heavy Rain cost Heavy Rain 1m in sales.

Want to sell more games?

Try making a good one.

Tired of this poor me developer crap and this faux cinematic wank from frustrated film makers invading gaming.

Stop inflicting your stupid on my hobby and make a damned movie!

 

[coopolon]

Here's a question wich im expecting you guys could answer:

If you suddenly have the ending of Heavy Rain completely spoiled, would you still play it? do you really want to experience the QTEs beyond finding out what happens in the game?

that's how you know the "thing" (its hardly a game) its crap. The only thing it has going for it is novelty (wich on the flipside is a big step BACK on videogame storytelling), and curious people.

Actually, the ending makes so little sense in connection with the rest of the story that it wouldn't really ruin the game imo. It wouldn't spoil anything because up until the last scene or two the ending isn't true.

Don't get me wrong though, the game is still crap.

 

[Gustav]

there is only one way that you can get used games at gamestop mere days after release. oddly, the more value a game offers, the fewer used copies show up at gamestop right after release.

weird that.

Okay - from now on we'll just have Multiplayer games.

 

[Chuck Norris]

I thought this game was supposed to be pretty good? What's with the unabated hatred in this thread?

 

[Stoffinator]

Heavy Rain was pure epic... I don't understand why it's so cool to hate it now?

And thank god I never buys a used games.

Seems to be the trend on this board, everyone loves a game when it comes out, than suddenly its a pile of you know what. I personally don't regret it, I think Heavy Rain is still one of the best games this gen.

 

[Electivirus]

You don't have to care about it, but it would be nice if some people in this thread would understand that the whole problem is far more complex than: "PUBLISHERS SCREW ME OVER! FUCK THEM! WILL NEVER BUY GUYHOMO DE DWOAIHFOAEFH GAME AGAIN!"

Ignoring your needless strawmanning, I'm well aware that the situation is more complex than that. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I thought otherwise from.

I'm simply saying that my responsibility as a consumer is to myself, first and foremost. And as such, I will head to places where I can get the best deals for video games that are otherwise, shall I say, expensive as a motherfucker. And for me, that place just so happens to be Gamestop. If publishers/devs can't handle that, then it's their responsibility to either take it up with Gamestop or change their business models instead of unleashing their thinly-veiled fury upon the consumer.

 

[Night_Trekker]

I thought this game was supposed to be pretty good? What's with the unabated hatred in this thread?

Cage is a tool and people are lashing out about that.

I enjoyed IP until it went to shit (about halfway through) and I look forward to playing Heavy Rain. But you're going to get called out for saying the sort of things he's saying.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

They won't because they know they'll lose a shitton of new sales. People trade in games and buy new ones.

Headline: developer gains one million new sales for overpriced title thanks to availability of trade in promotions

 

[radioheadrule83]

I'm sure this will have been said in the course of the thread, but doesn't this assume that people buying used would have been prepared to pay full price for the game if used copies were not available?

You can't jump to that conclusion really. Maybe everyone interested enough to buy the game at RRP / MSRP did so. I was never interested personally.

 

[ultron87]

For the record, the guy quoted in the OP seems to agree that games are too expensive and really isn't "blaming the consumer".

"Now, are games too expensive?" he asked.

"I've always said that games are probably too expensive, so there's probably a right level here to find, and we need to discuss this all together and try to find a way to reconcile consumer expectations, retail expectations and also the expectations of the publisher and the developers to make this business a worthwhile business."

 

[mr_toa]

What about the lost sales from people playing the game TWICE? :O

Seriously - don't even plant that idea in the pubs and devs minds!

I can almost see VP and CEO's going "Well thats a though; let's go all digital, new EULA imposing a limit to only a single playthrough. Let cost this at say £€39.99. Now that's value for you folks!"

And that's the best thing about games on physical media; when I've put down my getting my game I can well and good sell it, lend to family and friends until kingdom come.

Don't come asking for more money Mr. Cage, when I've already paid you once!

 

[AkuMifune]

I love this game, my first Platinum and all, but QD just fucking abandoned it after release to focus on the Move version instead of releasing DLC that could have cleared up some of the plot holes and given people a reason to hold onto the game instead of trading it in.

 

[jorma]

Okay - from now on we'll just have Multiplayer games.

Why the hyperbole? Does not 2 million copies sold actually prove that single player experiences are perfectly viable?

 

[fabricated backlash]

Well, let's see your complaints go to court then. If that's the only measure you have.

What the hell are you talking about? If publishers really feel that they are being cheated out of their money, in fact going as far as telling that people are stealing from them, and thus saying that Gamespot is organizing a crime, then why would they not go on court over this?

If what Gamespot does is perfectly legal (which it is), then I'd say man the fuck up, and give people a better incentive to buy a game new instead of used. Publishers haven't even tried to go for consumer friendly options, but instead opted to blame everyone else for their own failures.

 

[Emitan]

How is reviewing games illegal?

You mean GameSTOP

 

[Electivirus]

What the hell are you talking about? If publishers really feel that they are being cheated out of their money, in fact going as far as telling that people are stealing from them, and thus saying that Gamespot is organizing a crime, then why would they not go on court over this?

If what Gamespot does is perfectly legal (which it is), then I'd say man the fuck up, and give people a better incentive to buy a game new instead of used. Publishers haven't even tried to go for consumer friendly options, but instead opted to blame everyone else for their own failures.

Indeed. I'd gladly buy more games for full price at launch if they came with extra goodies, such as what Atlus does with a lot of their games (including art books, OSTs, etc.).

How is reviewing games illegal?

You mean GameSTOP

When it comes to Gamespot, it should be. ohohohoho I'm so clever

Spoiler

>.>

 

[Seraphis Cain]

I vote for a thread title change.

"Used market cost Guillaume de Fondaumiere €10 million".