Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
Thanks MS!
Sony Market Cap Hits $160 Billion For The First Time In Its Company History!
hemo memo
You can't die before your death
32% profit is driving the whole company... what?
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PlayStaytion
Member
We'll get fewer contents from acquisitions obviously.
Felessan
Member
It's their biggest, it's twice the size of next biggest segment, and fastest to grow segment, it grew 136% over 5 years (more than doubled, even without Bethesda it ATVI tricks), while rest of the Sony only managed to grow 32%
It's playstation that drives valuation up, because it's rapid grow improves overall multiplicators
Audiophile
Member
Disappoints me they're doing so well financially, PlayStation has been phoning it in this gen, not to mention completely misprioritising. They'll no doubt see their financials and just keep doubling down.
Feel like they need a kick up the arse before the fickle masses, mtx kiddies and mtx whales inevitably shift to the next shiny thing and the long-term core fans lose interest. If PS6 is overpriced, lacks identity and doesn't offer any significant, unique software, I kinda hope it struggles and this whole thing bursts.
Sony on the backfoot is a good thing when they lose sight of where their bread is buttered. Late PS3 through PS4 was a golden age in response to that and I feel like much of the trust put in Sony this gen has been based on goodwill from that period, but everyone I know feels burned by this gen and the goodwill will probably peter out with a PS6 that's even a dollar over 600, doesn't offer something new and doesn't offer a steady range of top tier first/second party titles.
They used to balance short-term gains well against long-term health of the brand. Now it all seems to be about the former with little regard for how it's gonna play out long term. Tretton & House and much of the old guard are gone now; and despite being business men there's no doubt in my mind that as part of the OG PlayStation team, they had one foot in the business and one foot in an actual passion for the platform. All I see now is money men following trends and the quick buck to eek out as much cash as possible upfront, and the core fanbase is largely feeling neglected as a result while being asked to pay more for it.
Feel like they need a kick up the arse before the fickle masses, mtx kiddies and mtx whales inevitably shift to the next shiny thing and the long-term core fans lose interest. If PS6 is overpriced, lacks identity and doesn't offer any significant, unique software, I kinda hope it struggles and this whole thing bursts.
Sony on the backfoot is a good thing when they lose sight of where their bread is buttered. Late PS3 through PS4 was a golden age in response to that and I feel like much of the trust put in Sony this gen has been based on goodwill from that period, but everyone I know feels burned by this gen and the goodwill will probably peter out with a PS6 that's even a dollar over 600, doesn't offer something new and doesn't offer a steady range of top tier first/second party titles.
They used to balance short-term gains well against long-term health of the brand. Now it all seems to be about the former with little regard for how it's gonna play out long term. Tretton & House and much of the old guard are gone now; and despite being business men there's no doubt in my mind that as part of the OG PlayStation team, they had one foot in the business and one foot in an actual passion for the platform. All I see now is money men following trends and the quick buck to eek out as much cash as possible upfront, and the core fanbase is largely feeling neglected as a result while being asked to pay more for it.
TKOFromTokyo
Member
Thanks for the link. I'm not sure how they're getting that cash number. The number I'm seeing is essentially 3 trillion yen. I wonder what number they're pulling. I can see the debt, includes short term borrowings. Honestly, even if cash has only half of debt, that's not really a concern as long as they're generating cash. Their LT debt matures between 2025-2058 (based on page F-83 of 2024 20-F). That's a long runway.
Look at page 2 (bottom number of 3/31 results for cash balance).
Furthermore, a lot of their debt comes from the Financial Services group. They're spinning off that business.
The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
Sorry I misread it as since release, and not for last year alone.
Felessan
Member
That's incorrect numbers
From FY24 report - cash position 1764 bln yen, debt 1635 bln yen, net 129 bln yen. That's without Financial services but for banks it's extremely stupid to compare debt with cashflows.
But that not very important, their yearly operating cash flow is 2 trln yen, so they can cut investments/capex and pay all their debt in one year, meaning they are absolutely safe from debt to cash flow perspective
yogaflame
Member
There are news that came out that it cost them $200 million. Some even says its higher at around $400 million. That's a big lost , not just financially but time. Marathon and Fairgames looks like will follow the fate of concord, which is such a waste of resources and time, that could have been allotted for big single player exclusives.
I see. But it really sucks that Sony neglected some of there great IP. If they really want GAAS, there old IP like for example Warhawk, Killzone, Resistance, Motorstorm, Socom, Wipeout, MAGS, and Twisted Metal are perfect for Gass game. For me, I'm okay with traditional MP mode with online MP mode, as long there is always the main single player campaign mode, just like COD 1-6 and Battlefield 1-4. I don't like GAAS and live since it reduces the quality of games and becomes more like a niche game and does not take advantage of the strength and capability of a specific hardware.
I don't see it as a live service. It is traditional game with online multiplayer mode. They are not selling anything or skins or stuff like hd2 or infinity nikki or marvel. I don't even see that it is mining for crypto or its a online gambling.
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Felessan
Member
Those IP are mostly irrelevant for gaas crowd, the majority of them are 15-25-30 yo crowd, they are too young too have a warm memories about mentioned franchises. And most of these franchises doesn't really fit into current era of preferences.
Btw - there was Twisted Metal live service game, it's just didn't passed internal review.
You just don't understand what live service game is and mix it with monetization or specific game structures.
Basically live service games are online games (not necessary multiplayer) those get periodic stream of content and their model revolve around engaging players to play over a long period of time (hence a name - live service). Is it b2p or f2p, is it session based/persistent world/own sandbox, is it gacha/lootbox/cosmetics/dlc or mix - it's all detail to the structure, there is a wide variety of live service games.
News from who?
mayham2199
Member
Sony makes most of it's money from 3rd party transactions and subs. They aren't a publisher like Ubisoft, EA, etc that relies on releasing software to keep making money. Their first party titles are just used as marketing tools to get you to buy the console. Of course they want to make money off the games they make but that's not their priority. Otherwise they would not only be making more games they'd be releasing them day 1 everywhere. The except is a GAAS game. They do want to own one of the top GAAS games just because they themselves see how much stupid money those games make. So they want the best of both worlds there.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
Yes, but it's well known that "Sony" didn't spend $400 million. That's the total spend for the game and purchasing the company. Half of that money was spent "BEFORE" Sony bought them.
Physiognomonics
Member
GT7 and MLB are not "GAAS" games, they are SP games with an online mode. They spend billions in Bungie to have some of that Destiny 2 success and HD2 was a strocke of luck, a game made by a passionate team they don't own, and won't own their next game. But HD2 money is not enough to cover all the others failures and lost of years of dev from some of their big studio lost into failing GAAS pursuit. They have lost 4 years, billions of dollars. What interesting games their customers used to buy have they on their pipeline right now? Saros from Returnal devs?
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I disagree on GT7/GTSports/MLB the same way I would with NBA2K as a series. Problem is that they are not predatory gacha traps and they do make the "Haha look at Concord" argument silly. I get people hate GaaS as an approach and looking at some games I can agree but we need to be honest too.
Too bad Concord bankrupt the whole company & PS5 is their worst generation ever
Physiognomonics
Member
I understand but GT7 is a single player game with added online functions. And it's also a game loved by the Playstation customers for years. So here the switch to online gaming with transactions (not sure about the details) was perfectly organic and well done by Polyphony. In the same way Factions was by the way on PS4. This is how they should have done for all their others franchises. Killzone SF MP was awesome. Why they didn't build on this model on PS5 and try to build a GAAS push from those old and loved PS franchises?
I know why. The problem is their PC push. GT7 is not on PC and this is why it's successful for Playstation gamers, the same way Factions and KZSF multiplayer modes were awesome. They are just too greedy and want it all. But It is failing spectacularly and I am so happy about it.
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Tiago Rodrigues
Member
You literally can't play GT7 offline and it's already the biggest GT title ever for Sony in terms of revenue. What are you even talking about? MLB IS a live game. Helldivers 2 like any live game was a "strocke of luck". You never know what's gonna stick or not until you release it. Helldivers 2 also usually has at least 2.5M players playing it every month. The game just repeaked like a week ago. You don't know how much Sony is making from it and it's not like its done. It's still selling and i'm sure they are still making money so saying "HD2 money is not enough to cover all the others failures"...you don't know. You don't know how much money Sony spent on the canceled games. You don't know if all the remakes and remasters Naughty Dog has done have covered the costs for what they had done for Factions. You don't know how much money Destiny 2 has done to cover for the Bungie acquisition, etc...
Let's not try to undermine the games that actually are working to fit a narrative.
What other games does Sony have? Ghost of Tsushima's sequel, Death Stranding 2. 2 AAA titles releasing this year are the next 2 titles.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Is this the reason you are derailing this thread though?
Sonik
Member
More games means more risk, especially now that a shitton of games are failing, so yeah this news will definitely mean less games
Felessan
Member
It's GaaS (online) game with limited offline capabilities. And periodic delivery of content.
Online game with periodic delivery of content = live service game.
And multiplayer game is a game that has one and done MP mode. The moment MP content start to roll out in phases game converts into GaaS. it's how they evolved from MP games, they did not came out of nowhere.
Killzone is a dead franchise, along with many other people like to mention.
For high profile gaas to be successful it should be roughly at 2-3m (b2p) or 6-10m (f2p) players. Most of franchise mentioned struggle with these numbers even at peak of their popularity.
Killzone SF sold like 2 mil copies and it's not exactly franchise with warmest memories. And it was 10 years ago, meaning that around 25-30% of it's players dropped out of gaming due to natural reasons. And half of the rest will not play KZ gaas because it's.. gaas. Hate due to trauma of gaas invading, encroaching and consuming SP gaming space is strong.
So it leaves 800k of potential "fans" playerbase, maybe +100% of others who might be interested. Still a ~very~ low number to run gaas game.
GaaS games are not just some adjustment of MP mode, they require significantly more resources and as a result - players to justify costs.
No proofs of this
It's amazing how many people have convinced themselves that Sony is a games maker and not a platform holder first and foremost. Their business is not reliant on their games output to nearly the same extent as Nintendo, or obviously actual third parties. Valve and Apple barely have any first party because they provide a platform for every developer just like Sony.
Sony had to bolster up their first party when Wii and 360 were eating their lunch, but they also put themselves in that situation in the first place because of their hardware choices that gen.
It's important for Sony to have first party (and third party) exclusives, but I think they need to re-calibrate and find the right balance again. They are blowing away a lot of money for no good reason.