Support NeoGAF

[scently]

12 CUs, each with 4 texure units. Thats 48 total. Now if Django wants to have some wizzards jiz and customize CU's for more compute, some of those Texure Units may be missing.

Im speculating of course, VGL did not post texture units info [and they renamed a lot of stuff on their diagrams].

Ok thanks.

 

[JJD]

I can guarantee you no one wants to go back to that. Not Sony, not MS, and certainly not any of the publishers.

This generation proved that they can run a much wider cycle and consumers will keep buying games. That greatly improves profit margins for all parties. There is no way after proving that consumers will take a 7-8 year cycle that they'll all opt to go back to a 5 year cycle.

The only way we get a new console in 2018 is 1. Nintendo bringing something out because the Wii U is dead and they need to give it another roll of the dice or 2. someone establishes a PS2 level of dominance.

In the second case I'd even bet that it would take MS establishing that level of dominance, leading to Sony (or at that point, their parent company Samsung) pushing out a new console.

If Sony rolls another PS1/PS2 generation on MS I'd seriously question MS's willingness to make hardware for another generation. Instead I'd bet on them looking for an alternative angle into the industry, probably revisiting their interest in Nintendo from a decade ago. A partnership between Nintendo and MS where the former builds the hardware and the later handles the OS, online, etc. would be a very strong competitor in this industry that meets both company's long term needs.

SMH...

 

[PaulLFC]

PC will sit back laughing at the idea of Sony putting out visually mindblowing titles.

Meanwhile Naughty Dog will laugh at you for even making such a statement.

I have a gaming PC, and in fact buy most of my games on Steam these days. To even suggest consoles won't put out stunning visuals once devs have got used to the hardware is ridiculous.

 

[Bsigg12]

CryTek is developing Ryse so that should be a jawdropper. I'm expecting Alan Wake 2 to be quite the looker as well. Halo 5 will also have great art behind it.

I fully expect a teaser for Halo 5 at either the announcement event or the end of the E3 press conference.

It will be glorious.

Alan Wake 2 as a launch title is an instant buy for me. I consider it one of the most unique stories I've ever played through and I'm excited to see where they take it.

I'm also hoping for 1-2 new IPs at launch. Microsoft needs to bring their A game to start the next generation off, so I hope they've got some serious fire power lined up for the launch window.

 

[SneakyStephan]

50 or 32 megs was reasonably a lot in 2005 compared to the previous gen. They thought they would be more than enough. Both were wrong....




At what resolution, fidelity, etc etc. My phone has 2GB ram, my 2 year old phone has 1GB ram. And again, what about the things you haven't thought about yet?

No 30 MB was never a lot... pcs existed before 2005... to multitask you always needed way more.
My 2003 pc with 1GB ram (+128MB vram) and a single core cpu multitasked pretty well...
Game + 4-5 browser windows + msn + teamspeak + media player.

SMH...

That's that marketing and consumer guilt I'm talking about
I have no words to express how I feel about it.

 

[i-Lo]

oh I dont know why I thought it was 16x4...lol. Can someone explain again why the article had it listed as 18 texture units? I know it was something similar to the 8 ROPs thing.

This is from the VGLeaks Orbis thread:

Because '1 Texture unit' in a CU is 4 texture filter units. Just think of it as 4 texture units if you prefer. It's the same 4 'texture units' in every other GCN CU.

Hope that helps.

 

[FordGTGuy]

Meanwhile Naughty Dog will laugh at you for even making such a statement.

I have a gaming PC, and in fact buy most of my games on Steam these days. To even suggest consoles won't put out stunning visuals once devs have got used to the hardware is ridiculous.

To even suggest that the "stunning visuals" will be mind blowing to people with high end gaming pcs is pretty funny. I never said they there won't be impressive graphics out of the new consoles but they won't be mind blowing.

We don't build $1500+ computers for no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBw0R1AUU64

 

[Zeal]

I fully expect a teaser for Halo 5 at either the announcement event or the end of the E3 press conference.

It will be glorious.

 

[AOC83]

We don't build $1500+ computers for no reason.

That´s true. You build them to play 360 games in 1080p and 60fps.

 

[Drek]

SMH...

Dude, it's reality. If the Xbox 720 or Wii U turns out to be a PS2 level market leader Sony will be SOL as a company. Samsung on the other hand continues to grow and will soon need to branch out into other industries or plateau. Sony's media holdings and games division would be a powerful step in that direction.

Not anything I'd want to see, but if Sony doesn't have a strong generation with the PS4 or pull a rabbit out of their hat with some other consumer device they're fucked.

 

[FordGTGuy]

That´s true. You build them to play 360 games in 1080p and 60fps.

If that let's you sleep at night fine by me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztkoePjhp1c

1k+ textures in Skyrim are quite mind blowing.

 

[szaromir]

12 CU, each with 4 texure units. Thats 48 total. Now if Django wants to have some wizzards jiz and customize CU's for more compute, some of those Texure Units may be missing.

Im speculating of course, VGL did not post texture units info [and they renamed a lot of stuff on their diagrams].

38,4GT/s at 800MHz gives you 48 texture units given the GCN architecture.

Yeah but 512MB is a lot compared to 50MB or 32MB..., 50 or 32 MB was a garbage bottleneck.

I have no doubt that xbox will be able to do more while gaming, but even 512MB is still enough for a browser with a bunch of tabs , voice chat and the OS itself.
On the dashboard itself ps4 will be able to do everything xbox 3 can.

Multitasking is great when gaming (it's why I prefer my pc) but ps4 should have the basics covered compared to PC and considering what you seem to have to give up with xbox 3 it seems to me like MS went too far from a gamer point of view.

You assume that whatever comes up with will be deemed as superficial and unnecessary. It might be the case again that there is demand for it on other platforms, like it happened with voice chat.

 

[Spongebob]

Does this pathetic GPU point to a shorter console cycle?

 

[cyberheater]

To even suggest that the "stunning visuals" will be mind blowing to people with high end gaming pcs is pretty funny. I never said they there won't be impressive graphics out of the new consoles but they won't be mind blowing.

We don't build $1500+ computers for no reason.

Yes but unfortunately. Very few devs bother to code a game engine to run on a $1500 gaming PC. Mostly we are left with console ports but the ability to run them at a higher resolution, framerate and lots of AA. If we're lucky we might get better textures. But that's it.

I'd love to see a PC game written from the ground up to maximise higher end PC rigs.

 

[Hindle]

I can't believe I've read posts saying MS will leave the industry. It's like 2005 all over again.

 

[AOC83]

If that let's you sleep at night fine by me.

It´s just the truth. You can count the PC games that are not just console upports with one hand.

 

[FordGTGuy]

It´s just the truth.

No it's not there are console ports but that isn't what we are stuck with.

 

[derFeef]

Does this pathetic GPU point to a shorter console cycle?

Leaving this thread... it's just pointless.

 

[PaulLFC]

To even suggest that the "stunning visuals" will be mind blowing to people with high end gaming pcs is pretty funny. I never said they there won't be impressive graphics out of the new consoles but they won't be mind blowing.

We don't build $1500+ computers for no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBw0R1AUU64

Clearly you didn't read my post. Go back and read it. I am primarily a PC gamer these days, yet I still think certain games put out absolutely phenomenal visuals given that they're running on 6 year old hardware.

Your unwillingness to accept that anything could possibly look good on a system that doesn't cost a grand and a half is quite amusing, to be honest.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

As stated previously... Every Durango game will have Kinect functionality.

What is this based on? Halo 4 didn't have kinect functionality.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

32ROPS vs 16ROPS

1.2TFLOPS vs 1.8TFLOPS

Huh, the Durango has 16 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?
Or is it the Orbis that has 32 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?

 

[FordGTGuy]

Clearly you didn't read my post. Go back and read it. I am primarily a PC gamer these days, yet I still think certain games put out absolutely phenomenal visuals given that they're running on 6 year old hardware.

Your unwillingness to accept that anything could possibly look good on a system that doesn't cost a grand and a half is quite amusing, to be honest.

Maybe you should go back and read what I said I never said consoles can't put out good or impressive visuals I'm refuting the statement that they can produce mind blowing visuals.

 

[SneakyStephan]

38,4GT/s at 800MHz gives you 48 texture units given the GCN architecture.


You assume that whatever comes up with will be deemed as superficial and unnecessary. It might be the case again that there is demand for it on other platforms, like it happened with voice chat.

Oh come the fuck on, voice chat wasn't invented by xbox...
I was talking to friends through voip and ts since the psx days.

Noone gave a fuck about voice chat when the consoles launched, you all knew it existed (unless you were locked up in a cave with only a psx) but suddenly it's the big must have talking point for fanboys to argue over.

I certainly knew when I bought a ps3 that the thing couldn't multitask for shit and was a barebones gaming machine that could also play blurays and couldn't quite stream video through DLNA from my pc.

I'd rather buy something based on a known quantity (performance) than on the possibility of some magical new invention that works with 3GB ram but not with 512MB alone (and again this has never happened before).

You can argue you want the ram, but you can't use it as justification for weaker hardware.
So far there is no reason to believe there is a tradeoff on ps4, the tradeoff is on xbox 3 until something comes along that proves otherwise.

 

[PaulLFC]

Maybe you should go back and read what I said I never said consoles can't put out good or impressive visuals I'm refuting the statement that they can produce mind blowing visuals.

You can't "refute" that, it's an opinion for a start.

 

[Meelow]

Huh, the Durango has 16 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?
Or is it the Orbis that has 32 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?

32ROPS (Orbis) vs 16ROPS (Durango)

1.2TFLOPS(Durango) vs 1.8TFLOPS (Orbis)

 

[RoboPlato]

I fully expect a teaser for Halo 5 at either the announcement event or the end of the E3 press conference.

It will be glorious.

Alan Wake 2 as a launch title is an instant buy for me. I consider it one of the most unique stories I've ever played through and I'm excited to see where they take it.

I'm also hoping for 1-2 new IPs at launch. Microsoft needs to bring their A game to start the next generation off, so I hope they've got some serious fire power lined up for the launch window.

I don't know if they'll have a teaser for Halo 5 this soon. Don't mainline Halo games usually have a 3 year dev cycle? E3 will only be about 7 months after 4 launched.

 

[i-Lo]

Leaving this thread... it's just pointless.

Add him to your ignore list.

Huh, the Durango has 16 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?
Or is it the Orbis that has 32 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?

Allegedly, 16ROPs and 1.23TF for Durango.

 

[Baconsammy]

Leaving this thread... it's just pointless.

Just consider the source.

you have got to get a thicker skin man

And enjoy the irony.

 

[Uno Venova]

Leaving this thread... it's just pointless.

you have got to get a thicker skin man

 

[Drek]

I can't believe I've read posts saying MS will leave the industry. It's like 2005 all over again.

MS is never leaving the industry at this point, but they're the least invested in actual hardware development and therefore the most willing to shift focus.

MS isn't in the video game business to sell a profitable video game console. MS is in the video game business to beat Apple, Google, etc. to the service based industry that will soon dominate all media distribution.

I'd bet that if Sony has a strong generation this cycle and offered MS a one console future built on a DVD forum/Blu-Ray group styled partnership where they co-design hardware that MS would gladly accept.

Hardware is second to MS. What portal you go through to get your media is what MS cares about. If the hardware stops being a pathway to that end they'll revisit their commitment to it and look for another angle to reach the same goal.

 

[phosphor112]

Huh, the Durango has 16 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?
Or is it the Orbis that has 32 Rops and 1.8 TFLOPS?

Second one.

 

[FordGTGuy]

You can't "refute" that, it's an opinion for a start.

Yes I can refute it something can be measured as far as graphical fidelity is concerned something mindblowing is going to look better than something that looks good that is not opinion. I'm not refuting his favorite ice cream..
This looks goodfrom photomode)

This looks mindblowingrealtime)

And as good as that looks (and is an impressive achievement by modders), I would still say that Watch Dogs clearly looks better than that. That game is clearly targetted for next gen systems..

You think PC won't be able to surpass the visuals of Watch Dogs and for that matter mod it to make it look even better?

 

[Bsigg12]

I don't know if they'll have a teaser for Halo 5 this soon. Don't mainline Halo games usually have a 3 year dev cycle? E3 will only be about 7 months after 4 launched.

Yea, but I can't see Microsoft launching a new system without some sort of Halo video. Even if the game isn't out for 3 more years, I can see 343 showing up and being like, "this is what is possible on the next Xbox and what we're aiming for with the next Halo."

 

[Reiko]

What is this based on? Halo 4 didn't have kinect functionality.

Speculation from posts.

 

[nelsonroyale]

To even suggest that the "stunning visuals" will be mind blowing to people with high end gaming pcs is pretty funny. I never said they there won't be impressive graphics out of the new consoles but they won't be mind blowing.

We don't build $1500+ computers for no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBw0R1AUU64

And as good as that looks (and is an impressive achievement by modders), I would still say that Watch Dogs clearly looks better than that. That game is clearly targetted for next gen systems..

 

[malyce]

I can guarantee you no one wants to go back to that. Not Sony, not MS, and certainly not any of the publishers.

This generation proved that they can run a much wider cycle and consumers will keep buying games. That greatly improves profit margins for all parties. There is no way after proving that consumers will take a 7-8 year cycle that they'll all opt to go back to a 5 year cycle.

The only way we get a new console in 2018 is 1. Nintendo bringing something out because the Wii U is dead and they need to give it another roll of the dice or 2. someone establishes a PS2 level of dominance.

In the second case I'd even bet that it would take MS establishing that level of dominance, leading to Sony (or at that point, their parent company Samsung) pushing out a new console.

If Sony rolls another PS1/PS2 generation on MS I'd seriously question MS's willingness to make hardware for another generation. Instead I'd bet on them looking for an alternative angle into the industry, probably revisiting their interest in Nintendo from a decade ago. A partnership between Nintendo and MS where the former builds the hardware and the later handles the OS, online, etc. would be a very strong competitor in this industry that meets both company's long term needs.

 

[Baki]

I can guarantee you no one wants to go back to that. Not Sony, not MS, and certainly not any of the publishers.

This generation proved that they can run a much wider cycle and consumers will keep buying games. That greatly improves profit margins for all parties. There is no way after proving that consumers will take a 7-8 year cycle that they'll all opt to go back to a 5 year cycle.

The only way we get a new console in 2018 is 1. Nintendo bringing something out because the Wii U is dead and they need to give it another roll of the dice or 2. someone establishes a PS2 level of dominance.

In the second case I'd even bet that it would take MS establishing that level of dominance, leading to Sony (or at that point, their parent company Samsung) pushing out a new console.

If Sony rolls another PS1/PS2 generation on MS I'd seriously question MS's willingness to make hardware for another generation. Instead I'd bet on them looking for an alternative angle into the industry, probably revisiting their interest in Nintendo from a decade ago. A partnership between Nintendo and MS where the former builds the hardware and the later handles the OS, online, etc. would be a very strong competitor in this industry that meets both company's long term needs.

Samsung Sony hahaha. Good one.

 

[szaromir]

Oh come the fuck on, voice chat wasn't invented by xbox...
I was talking to friends through voip and ts since the psx days.

Noone gave a fuck about voice chat when the consoles launched, you all knew it existed (unless you were locked up in a cave with only a psx) but suddenly it's the big must have talking point for fanboys to argue over.

I certainly knew when I bought a ps3 that the thing couldn't multitask for shit and was a barebones gaming machine that could also play blurays and couldn't quite stream video through DLNA from my pc.

I'd rather buy something based on a known quantity (performance) than on the promise that some magical new invention that works with 3GB ram but not with 512MB comes alone (and again this has never happened before).

You can argue you want the ram, but you can't use it as justification for weaker hardware.

Voice chat was certainly available on PC but majority wasn't using headsets at the time. I was pretty into Enemy Territory and during majority of matches we were still using key-based communications, ie."Need a medic", "Enemy weakened" etc. because most people had no other option. 360 democratized it as suddenly everyone on the platform had a headset (albeit a crappy one).

We'll see what's the right call sooner than later, beefier GPU or a bunch of OS features, I personally don't care as I'll continue to play on my PC.

 

[JJD]

Dude, it's reality. If the Xbox 720 or Wii U turns out to be a PS2 level market leader Sony will be SOL as a company. Samsung on the other hand continues to grow and will soon need to branch out into other industries or plateau. Sony's media holdings and games division would be a powerful step in that direction.

Not anything I'd want to see, but if Sony doesn't have a strong generation with the PS4 or pull a rabbit out of their hat with some other consumer device they're fucked.

Guys you heard here first, if the PS4 fails Sony is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!

Maybe you should look how they are trying to revitalize their phone division and being successful at it. There's a great possibility that Sony may end up being the third biggest biggest smartphone maker this year.

They had a shot a being the third one last year, but I don't know if they achieved that.

Sony, Microsoft hell even Nintendo would trade their videogame business in a heartbeat if they could dominate the smartphone market.

This whole Sony, MS and Nintendo are/may be doomed thing needs to stop. They are not going anywhere for a good while.

If the Durango, Orbis or Wii U completely fail the biggest danger would be to Nintendo since they focus on videogames and videogames alone.

Still this cycle has more than proved that 3 consoles are viable on a generation. The Wii sold great, the 360 and the PS3 sold satisfactorily. You might argue that Sony lost huge marketshare but the PS3 is not the failure that some people try to paint it to be.

If I was to make an educated guess I'd say that next gen Orbis and Durango will be close in sales (but not as close as they are now, and who knows who will come on top?) and the Wii U will trail a little behind. They won't bankrupt their makers.

 

[Rat Salad]

I can't believe I've read posts saying MS will leave the industry. It's like 2005 all over again.

Yep. I mean if they really wanna comprehend something like that then well ok....
Sony's closer to that reality than Microsoft is. Pass the collection plate,they need dat cash! :b

Yet this place is smelling blood on the Durango? I mean its like they don't see reality around them! Sony is the one in trouble. Hell they can't even come up with proper marketing and funds to support their newest hardware the Vita! But i guess Microsoft is the one thats gonna leave the industry,cause Gaf says so!

 

[alexandros]

What games are mainly developed for PC? Because from what I've seen 99% of games are developed with 360/PS3 in mind.

Factually incorrect.

 

[RoboPlato]

Yea, but I can't see Microsoft launching a new system without some sort of Halo video. Even if the game isn't out for 3 more years, I can see 343 showing up and being like, "this is what is possible on the next Xbox and what we're aiming for with the next Halo."

I wonder if they'll do a Halo 2 Anniversary or Halo 4 at 1080p or something like that.

 

[seattle6418]

Hopefully this means a shorter cycle, like 2018-2019 for new consoles. Makes sense. They couldn't wait until tech revolution in one or two years, so they are making reasonable machines that will be great for 4-5 years.

I like that a lot.

Also, i've said this earlier, it's not just the costs. Developers, right now, don't even have the tools or the man power to fully explore a console with 5-6 TF's, if Sony and Microsoft were targetting something like this.

There's is plenty of things to learn and wow us with those 2 TF or so machines.

In the meantime, let's all enjoy with the trolls the magnificent PC exclusives like Rfactor 2 and iRacing.

These games are pushing incredible visuals that can only be achieved on PCs with 5 or more TF's.

(please turn your sarcasm detector on).

 

[ekim]

This thread... Some people draw conclusions from 1.8tflops vs. 1.2tflops and 16 vs 32 ROPS. That's hilarious. I mean that info on vgleaks is based on plans that were made when alpha devkits went out. These alpha devkits had off the shelf parts. Calm down and wait until you see actual games. PS4 and 720 will both show you mindblowing stuff,

 

[StudioTan]

So we had to put up with an 8 year generation (if Durango launches in Fall) and we get this shit? And it's possible the bad specs are due to Kinect being in the box? Are you fucking kidding me?
MS will have to show some great games to convince me to put up with vastly inferior graphics for another 8 years. But we'll see how big the difference is in-game. If it's not drastically bigger than PS3>360 (which was a pretty big gap, TBH), I'd be okay with it.

Vastly inferior? Developers have said that the two consoles are roughly the same. Even the Orbis leak article said that the it was only "slightly" more powerful than Durango.

I think a lot of people are jumping to conclusions based on incomplete and still unconfirmed information.

 

[scently]

I wonder if they'll do a Halo 2 Anniversary or Halo 4 at 1080p or something like that.

I would rather they do Halo 2 Anniversary.

 

[Death Dealer]

I have no doubt about impressive visuals but not mind blowing. Mods I've seen done with Skyrim are mind blowing.

Games like Skyrim prove that even if consoles hold back games the modding community will make up for it.

Wait, so you don't think next gen console games will be able to outclass the graphics of some PC Skyrim mods ?

 

[TGO]

Factually incorrect.

indeed you got those RTS games & straight to the bargain bin ones too

 

[velociraptor]

Meanwhile Naughty Dog will laugh at you for even making such a statement.

I have a gaming PC, and in fact buy most of my games on Steam these days. To even suggest consoles won't put out stunning visuals once devs have got used to the hardware is ridiculous.

Yep. As a 'PC gamer' myself, visually Uncharted 3 and God of War 3 blow away 99% of games on the PC as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Maxrunner]

I can't believe I've read posts saying MS will leave the industry. It's like 2005 all over again.

Considering their other markets....who knows...