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VGLeaks: Durango GPU detailed
- Thread starter phosphor112
- Start date
My guess:
Durango isn't a standard GCN part. It's a derivative with modified portions of the CUs which is why they call them shader cores- for example: Depth/color buffers/blocks almost sound like Z occlusion culling (no rendering/shading of objects not visible in view frame) but on a per-pixel level, which would greatly help shader ops and fillrate I don't see any reference to this in AMD GCN white papers.
Durango isn't a standard GCN part. It's a derivative with modified portions of the CUs which is why they call them shader cores- for example: Depth/color buffers/blocks almost sound like Z occlusion culling (no rendering/shading of objects not visible in view frame) but on a per-pixel level, which would greatly help shader ops and fillrate I don't see any reference to this in AMD GCN white papers.
The names where changed to probably try and obfuscate that it is just plain old GCN because that's what it looks like, GCN with different names for parts this is not the original diagram as well btw so try keep that in mind. I'd say it would be say to say that it's just plain old GCN.
I don't really know. I can't see anything from his recent post history.He lied or something? Did he ask for the ban? Throw me bone
i think this just points to them saving money so they can pack in a kinect
Oh, shame. Seemed sensible. The shit is about to hit the fan though, judging by some of the reactions in this thread.
Deuterium
Member
Fair enough. However, at least if the spec's were confirmed by either the manufacturer(s), or Developer(s) who have officially gone on the record....it would provide a firm foundation upon which to build comparisons of hardware and how the hardware specifications translate into gameplay performance and quality. Currently, this foundation is unstable swampland, versus bed rock.
phosphor112
Banned
What similarities?
That it's coming out early? No.
That it's weaker than the competition? Yeah, but it's coming out around the same time as PS4... if anything it's like GC was to Xbox... since both came out at the same time
Will be the lead platform? Maybe? Probably because it would be the lowest common denominator. Nothing to brag about. I guess you can spin that but ports will all likely run and look better on PS4, even if only by a minute amount.
again, there is no reference to per-pixel culling in GCN white papers. This was from the first page of the
am I the only one reading the source article? This is some important shit.
Color/depth blocks 4
Pixel clear rate 1 8×8 tile/clock * 4 DBs * 800 MHz = 204.8 Gpixel/sec
Pixel hierarchical Z cull rate 1 8×8 tile/clock * 4 DBs * 800 MHz = 204.8 Gpixel/sec
Sample Z cull rate 16 /clock * 4 DBs * 800 MHz = 51.2 Gsample/sec
Pixel emit rate 4 /clock * 4 DBs * 800 MHz = 12.8 Gpixel/sec
Pixel resolve rate 4 /clock * 4 DBs * 800 MHz = 12.8 Gpixel/sec
"Depth and Stencil
The depth block occurs near the end of the logical rendering pipeline, after the pixel shader. In the GPU implementation, however, the DB and the CB can interact with rendering both before and after pixel shading, and the pipeline supports several types of optimized early decision pathways. Durango implements both hierarchical Z (Hi-Z) and early Z (and the same for stencil). Using careful driver and hardware logic, certain depth and color operations can be moved before the pixel shader, and in some cases, part or all of the cost of shading and rasterization can be avoided.
Depth and stencil are stored and handled separately by the hardware, even though syntactically they are treated as a unit. A read of depth/stencil is really two distinct operations, as is a write to depth/stencil. The driver implements the mixed format DXGI_FORMAT_D24_UNORM_S8_UINT by using two separate allocations: a 32-bit depth surface (with 8 bits of padding per sample) and an 8-bit stencil surface."
JohnnySasaki86
Member
He said in the Wii U GPU die shot thread that Orbis CPU had only 6 cores available for games. This was his last post. He didn't back it up with any info. It was the first ive heard of such a thing. The DF article speculated this was the case for Durango's CPU, but specifically said it wasn't the case for Orbis. Who knows. I wouldn't be really surprised if Orbis had one core reserved for OS purposes, PS3 had one SPU reserved.
As far as Proelite maybe this was one of the reasons he was banned, or maybe it was just everything overall thats been going on this past week. *shrugs* I would definitely like to know though.
Because they are based on Microsoft documentation, and 720 alpha and beta development kits. Those are the things developers use when making 720 games. One of those was even sold to the public.
If you don't know who he was why did you asked him that? Too bad you didn't heard the answer we were all waiting for.
A developer in this very thread practically confirmed the specs. This is one of the times were I would love to be wrong but it seems unlikely.
But OK I won't bother you with this anymore, sorry! Believe what you will.
Can you explain to me what any of that actually means without referencing the source document because it looks like normal GCN to me and a lot of other people seem to agree aswell
8800gtx, 720p @ 30fps?
sure.
people's memories for day one console efficiency come from a time when consoles launched with state of the art tech. even then, titles like call of duty 2 ran remarkably similarly to comparable PC hardware at the time - there were a lot of arguments as to what performed better, an xbox 360 or a 7800gtx equipped PC. it was when the 8800 series came out that the gap became insurmountable.
this generation around, it'll be like if the xbox360 launched day and date with the nvidia 280.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
I would assume no, based on the fact when this was suggested last week everyone knew that Orbis' GPU has 600 more gflops. Maybe someone with more technical know how can step in and explain why.
IrishNinja
Member
this was also my takeaway, so yes
Karak
Member
Love Adam Sessler.
Relevant to the Orbis announcement and the Durango future. Just him riffing about Feb 20th and other stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wAZDHdU0eo&feature=player_embedded#t=12s
Relevant to the Orbis announcement and the Durango future. Just him riffing about Feb 20th and other stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wAZDHdU0eo&feature=player_embedded#t=12s
essentially what it's saying is the shader operation will go through DB/CB first, and if it's obscured by another pixel (using geometry as it's reference?) then the shader operation is aborted. Pixel fill never occurs. Process starts again with next shader operation.
this means instead of wasting however many cycles shading and filling a pixel, it's aborted before it starts.
and GCN doesn't appear to have this functionality.
Heh, read my previous posts. Less powerful, more attractive to consumers, possible better support in certain areas in comparison to competitors.
All I was doing was having a conversation with another poster. You guys took it like I was stating why "the next Xbox will be the next coming of the PS2".
A lot of you guys are seemingly already in console war mode.
I haven't seen anyone else mention this maybe you are interpreting it wrong
That was great. Man, I can smell the new plastic of these consoles already.
Great video. 100% agree; especially with the "doomed" stuff.
phosphor112
Banned
It's exactly the same as GCN.
Less powerful but it's not comparable to "less powerful" that PS2 was.
More attractive? How? Kinect? The thing that really didn't do that well? How many people do I know that got one but just have it sitting in front of their TV? A few of them. Do they wan't Kinect 2.0? Probably not. Set top box features? Like the ones they already have? Doesn't seem "more attractive" as of yet (really, neither of them do until we know the features for both). Better support? What type of spin is this? Why would they get better support? In comparison to Wii U maybe, but that is in a completely different running from MS and Sony.
Glorified G
Member
You're really just repeating the same point. Everyone knows VGLeaks is not Microsoft. Everyone knows we're not getting information directly from the manufacturer.
If someone wants to make definitive predictions/statements based on rumors people will notice.
All you're really saying is "Hey guys! Remember these are only rumors!." In a rumors thread. That's not "injecting sanity" as it's more pointing out the obvious.
Deuterium
Member
Aye, that is the problem...I don't know what to believe.
However, if in fact the "leaked" specs are derived from official Microsoft documentation, and nothing has changed with the specs in the year that has transpired (e.g. Alpha kits = Beta kits), then I am inclined now to give more weight to the information at hand.
What will certainly lend credibility to the leaked specs will be if Sony's public release on February 20th matches up with the VGLeaks information on Orbis...assuming Sony does indeed provide technical details at this event.
Side note, I always liked hearing his opinion on literally anything gaming and non. Dude is pretty laid back and respected in the industry.
Uno Venova
Banned
I feel the same way, even broke my TLOU blackout to hear his opinion on it.
Dude, again... you are going into "console war mode".
If the next Xbox is cheaper in price and has the same looking multiplatform games that the PS4 has, then yes, some will more than likely find the next Xbox to be more attractive.
That's it. That's all I said. Relax.
aren't you just describing z-culling, which has been standard on GPUs since forever?
Kitschkraft
Member
Unless this is like 200 bucks cheaper or something (Is it likely at all that they will come out with a non-kinect SKU for this to happen), I'm having a hard time getting excited for this.
Of course, I've not heard much about the upgrades to kinect (Or, at the least, I've not the technical no-how to tell how these specs will benefit it). It's going to have to be able to do some amazing shit for me to be interested in it.
Of course, I've not heard much about the upgrades to kinect (Or, at the least, I've not the technical no-how to tell how these specs will benefit it). It's going to have to be able to do some amazing shit for me to be interested in it.
It actually is after this gen.
Sure it is when 1.) No real evidence.
These leaks have a huge sense of BS about them. It's always amazing we have to wait for an update from the site before the famous posters here on GAF confirm them. If they're so worried about their "sources" they wouldn't be saying shit in the first place. Either leak this shit for real or do this for some hits on VGleaks. My guess is these leaks are a form of a rick roll on neogaf/B3D members.
I think the smartest thing here is to be skeptical about all of this. The real devs have been way silent period.
Graphics Horse
Member
Are you talking about early z
shinra-bansho
Member
The $100 cheaper narrative sure has gained traction in lieu of there being any magic and fairy dust.
If anything, if Microsoft's BoM including everything in the box ends up cheaper than Sony's I'd see them pricing the same but taking a lesser loss-lead or launching at profit for hardware.
Still expecting both to retail for $399.
Meanwhile expecting Kinect 2.0 to drive adoption strikes me as the same sort of folly that led anyone to think the market would be nipping at the bud for a touchscreen controller.
If anything, if Microsoft's BoM including everything in the box ends up cheaper than Sony's I'd see them pricing the same but taking a lesser loss-lead or launching at profit for hardware.
Still expecting both to retail for $399.
Meanwhile expecting Kinect 2.0 to drive adoption strikes me as the same sort of folly that led anyone to think the market would be nipping at the bud for a touchscreen controller.
Well yes and no. Afaik it didn't abort shader operations, just the final fill, I believe.
Shadow of the BEAST
Banned
the thing is both of these boxes are economy boxes.
any other gen they would be bottom of the barrel.
like i said earlier. orbis is a cheap but balanced hardware ala dreamcast or gamecube.
durango is even weaker than that. Its barely a next gen leap.
a 3 tf gpu gaben box is going to smoke both.
any other gen they would be bottom of the barrel.
like i said earlier. orbis is a cheap but balanced hardware ala dreamcast or gamecube.
durango is even weaker than that. Its barely a next gen leap.
a 3 tf gpu gaben box is going to smoke both.
Uno Venova
Banned
Ah, the leaks from a respected site when it comes to leaks, with specs confirmed as accurate by devs and saying it hasn't changed is a B3d rick roll.
Pretty much how i look at it. I am not jumping to any conclusions until either something official is released or maybe i dunno....see an actual game running on the hardware before i decide whether or not the console is crap or not.
depends when the pass is made, but again, is a standard feature.
It's the cross roads basically
A. Go after Sony/WIIu: Be the best console
B. Go after Apple: Be the best media box
You can't get both. If MS goes after Apple and wins, then it wouldn't matter. That's basically game over for Sony.
Now if they fuck that up, then next gen will be interesting.
phosphor112
Banned
I'm just trying to see HOW it's more attractive. If the only "main" feature that Sony can't match is set top box then I think they'll struggle, especially outside the US. Sony has many more services to appeal to non-US users, which is a huge demographic.
Exactly what is holding back Orbis from being as good a media box as Durango? Memory? 512MB is enough on an iPad for everything it needs to do.
Is it exclusivity contracts for programming, which have nothing to do with the design of the actual hardware?
TOAO_Cyrus
Member
Thats if you believe their ludacris claim that the PS3 GPU was 1.8 tflops. MS 1.2 tflop total system power was pretty far out there also.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I suspect your "BS detector" is especially sensitive when you don't like what you're hearing
The same thing that has been holding Sony back for basically a decade. Themselves. This isn't about just hardware but company culture.
Sony has it's hands in so many cookie jars that it's unbelievable. The fact they havn't been able to create some form of ecosystem after all these years speaks volumes.Hope Kaz is the one that does it tho.
It will be very interesting first holiday season for both if they have solid supply. I think we will see if MS alienated the hardcore gamers who have been waiting for a new generation for the last 2 years. If they don't get the core gamers like the Wii:U it could be a disastrous first holiday season. It basically forces MS to eat losses to get prices down to try and get more casual gamers on board. Very risky if it all works it will be a home run but I have my doubts. I think a lot of the kinect gamers have moved to phones and tablets. I just don't see the services route working outside the US unless MS can really improve on what they offer currently outside the US.
sony have an awful ecosystem. it fulfils some base functions, but going up against apple and google, they are more likely to eventually become a hardware appendage than a competitor.
microsoft are in a slightly better position, but w8 phones and tablets haven't given them the jumping point they were hoping for.
i'm not sure that sony's "make a gaming console and supplement it with services" plan is the one i'd invest in, but it's nice to see them try. it's fortunate that they can make an entirely conservative piece of hardware that's relatively easy to bring to a profit and still be classed as "the gaming machine", though.
You're no Chuck Norris. The only thing sensitive is your reply.
maybe orbis is secretly a codeword for the playstation nexus and this is sony+googles big plan all along to push android in the living room
Completely agreed. Microsoft might extend their contract dealeo from beyond the 360 to the next gen platform as well.
But isn't this what everyone was thinking?