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[Darth]

What do you mean "not this shit again?" All their features that they can't match this gen are because of their systems limitations. PSN was trash the first few years. Their store? It was absolutely laughable.


I'm sure they plan on addressing that. The "share" function would directly compete with companies like Hauppauge. That's something, PCs, Tablets, etc can't offer out the box. Both MS and Sony will have new features.

Some people perhaps want to pay twice just to watch Netflix. Pay to play online. So be it, let them.

 

[StevieP]

Only in a thread about a console GPU breakdown can we discuss a handheld OS.

 

[bj00rn_]

I must be missing something because I've been doing that with XBLA games for years, that's much longer than you've been able to do it with PSN stuff.

It's funny isn't it.. and in fact it's not just XBLA games but basically the whole marketplace. Just another feature Microsoft has been quietly doing great while others didn't.

 

[Teletraan1]

Oh GAF, never change.

Pre-Kinect: "It's gonna bomb so hard."

20+ Million sold Kinect sensors later ...

"Kinect 2.0 will bomb so hard."

How about you change and actually make a cognitive rebuttal rather than the nonsense posted here. Try actually refuting anything I said would be a decent start.

 

[Zeal]

Oh my shit this is amazing.

Riddle me this, Microsoft: how many Wii U's are taped for a Durango?

Sorry, carry on.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

There's something I don't understand.

Don't these specs confirm what we've always more or less known ?
A machine 6x/8x the power of Xbox 360 ?

Why are people acting like this is a 'downgrade total' or another Wii ?

After 7/8 years respectively, i personally expected more from both consoles, especially the xbox since Microsoft has the disposable income. 6x/8x jump just seems weak for a 8 year generation.

 

[Teletraan1]

I don't see how Kinect 2.0 is even something that is a positive from a marketing perspective. How many decent Kinect 1.0 games came out? I know my sister bought a Kinect for her 3 kids, played a few dance games on it and got a few shitty kids games that controlled horribly and that was it. It seems to have moved a lot of hardware but they didn't support it at all with decent software afterwards. The Kinect release schedule since/including launch has been a poor attempt a humor. At this point it has to be a "fool me once" scenario for a lot of people. I would imagine that if it was improved and supported it might draw people back but there will be a hell of a lot of skeptical people.

So your judging Kinect 2.0 based on what could/couldn't be done with the original Kinect? Fact is the original Kinect is capable of doing better things that the 360 is not allowing it to do. We all know of the 360's USB limitations and in many ways it gimped what Kinect could really do. That's why we all saw those Kinect hacks and wondered why we couldn't see that done on the 360.

Kinect 2.0 will not only be vastly superior than Kinect, but this time there will be no such hardware limitation. Think full body tracking with virtually zero lag. Finger tracking (think of all the possibilities like sign language video chat, more precise control of games etc...). Facial and lip recognition etc... And think of how it might work with their leaked Project Fortaleza VR glasses. Virtual Reality made more immersive with Kinect (touch and manipulate the world around you with precision). The possibilities are really endless.

If you managed to read the paragraph in its entirety I addressed that. They must pay you PR fellows by the word.

 

[Jack_AG]

i still dont like the bubble gui

I can do with a change to the GUI, for sure, but OS operation and functionality is quite amazing - especially for a handheld.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

Yup. I'm sticking with my guns earlier that everyone already has an everything box and what will set a box apart from "I can do this too! look at me! over here!" is that one will be full tilt gaming while another tries to become a replica box of the dozens of current tech peripherals already cemented in the living room. Another box that does what every other box does that also hides everything behind a paywall (could change) isn't exactly an ace in the hole.

I think a primary gaming box is the ticket. Too many pieces of tech do "everything". A straight games-machine is the better bet.

I could be wrong tho. Wouldn't be the first time.

I know im lazy and love having a box that can do everything. The fact that i can stream Watch ESPN on my 360 and not my PS3 is a huge deal for me. The only other way i can stream that content is on my laptop and hooking that up to my tv is not an option.

I like that i can turn on one machine (360) and can do just about anything. I dont have to worry about turning on this device, finding that remote, etc.... Plus i might plan on watching Netflix but see my friends are in a Halo party and I may change my mind and decide to join. If i was streaming it through my TV i would have no idea who is playing online at that moment.

 

[Jack_AG]

I know im lazy and love having a box that can do everything. The fact that i can stream Watch ESPN on my 360 and not my PS3 is a huge deal for me. The only other way i can stream that content is on my laptop and hooking that up to my tv is not an option.

I like that i can turn on one machine (360) and can do just about anything. I dont have to worry about turning on this device, finding that remote, etc.... Plus i might plan on watching Netflix but see my friends are in a Halo party and I may change my mind and decide to join. If i was streaming it through my TV i would have no idea who is playing online at that moment.

I'm not saying it doesn't have a value for people, you're misinterpreting what I said. I'm saying it will be hard to compete in a market that is FILLED with boxes that already does everything this box will do and probably more for FREE and not hidden behind a paywall.

For consumers that already have an "everything box" - why would they buy another box that they have to feed money every year just to access functions that other boxes let you access for free?

 

[Ol No Bones]

I understand that these leaks and speculation are fun but we literally have no official announcement that these consoles exist. The ps4 could very well be more powerful than the Xbox but it might not be. I think pronouncing doom and gloom on either console is a little silly at this point.

 

[eso76]

Some people were holding out hope that Durango would be the most powerful console, or at least on par with Sony's machine.

They're a decent jump in graphics, overall. There won't be any confusion that it's a new gen.

So, in other words, people are not complaining this is just a 6x leap from Xbox 360 (which we've always known and has never changed).

People complain because PS4 is more powerful than we were lead to believe.

Which is a rather silly thing to complain about, tbh, although I can see where some are coming from.


As usual, though, let's wait for the games before judging.


(Meanwhile in the Wii U thread: "yeah, so we've seen the games, but we need to know the exact # of flops to judge !")

After 7/8 years respectively, i personally expected more from both consoles, especially the xbox since Microsoft has the disposable income. 6x/8x jump just seems weak for a 8 year generation.

Now, this is something I can understand and get behind. 6x leap always sounded low-ish to me.
A rather disappointing generational difference.
I just don't understand why complain now: these specs are just confirming the previous leaks, nothing has changed since then (except maybe ps4 specs) so why is the system suddenly doomed ITT ?

 

[Jack_AG]

I understand that these leaks and speculation are fun but we literally have no official announcement that these consoles exist. The ps4 could very well be more powerful than the Xbox but it might not be. I think pronouncing doom and gloom on either console is a little silly at this point.

Eh... there's been quite a lot of "unofficial" confirmation from reliable sources and developers. I agree anything can happen but you would have a higher chance of winning the lottery multiple times in a row, at this point. Just sayin' - I believe we are past the point of "do they really exist".

 

[Jack_AG]

So, in other words, people are not complaining this is just a 6x leap from Xbox 360 (which we've always known and has never changed).

People complain because PS4 is more powerful than we were lead to believe.

Which is a rather silly thing to complain about, tbh, although I can see where some are coming from.


As usual, though, let's wait for the games before judging.


(Meanwhile in the Wii U thread: "yeah, so we've seen the games, but we need to know the exact # of flops to judge !")

This statement might not be applicable - seeing how close in architecture they both are. It's almost like comparing the same muscle car with the same cubes, suspension, etc - except one is super-charged and the other turbo, one has 400 ponies and the other 600. They are close enough in design to let the horsepower dictate the winner in the 1000ft without needing to plant rubber.

I could care less because both cars seem relatively fast and I'd be happy with either - but - there is a demographic that likes to know the clear winner in straight power and invest in that machine.

 

[Razdek]

I'm not saying it doesn't have a value for people, you're misinterpreting what I said. I'm saying it will be hard to compete in a market that is FILLED with boxes that already does everything this box will do and probably more for FREE and not hidden behind a paywall.

For consumers that already have an "everything box" - why would they buy another box that they have to feed money every year just to access functions that other boxes let you access for free?

I don't get your issue with the new consoles being more than game machines. Yes people have set top boxes but if you can get a new game machine and one that does everything the set top box does then it adds value. All that happens is they move the set top box to another TV in the house.

 

[Clay Davis]

I just don't really need a medihub thing at all.
I've got a smart tv already and a DVR. I don't really care about any of that implied focus.

I want my videogame box to do videogames, and thats it.

the more features the better in my opinion. if I only have to use one box for all my needs, that's pretty much a dream come true for me.

I have no doubt they'll focus on gaming too, but they shouldn't just focus in gaming, especially as people are expecting and demanding their electronics to do more and more.

 

[Darryl]

I understand that these leaks and speculation are fun but we literally have no official announcement that these consoles exist. The ps4 could very well be more powerful than the Xbox but it might not be. I think pronouncing doom and gloom on either console is a little silly at this point.

it is pretty funny how extensive these discussions go on with no proof at all that they even exist

(Meanwhile in the Wii U thread: "yeah, so we've seen the games, but we need to know the exact # of flops to judge !")

no, it's the same "let's see the games" attitude in just about any wii u thread as well

 

[Black_Stride]

No idea what it means but there is quite a difference in numbers there. Lets hope the next xbox is not lagging too far behind the ps4 in terms of graphics.

otherwise all my achievements will be for nothing! I will not be able to afford 2 machines from the start :-(

Do achievements not work if graphics arent as good?

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Now, this is something I can understand and get behind. 6x leap always sounded low-ish to me.
A rather disappointing generational difference.
I just don't understand why complain now: these specs are just confirming the previous leaks, nothing has changed since then (except maybe ps4 specs) so why is the system suddenly doomed ITT ?

because things can change and there were ton of rumors floating around of things changing.

I still down deep am hoping that these specs are for a lower tier console and in fact there is an enthusiast sku that has not leaked simply because Paul thurrot said there are multiple xbox machines coming. For me personally, Paul thurrot has a bit more credibility then most of the people here, so if he is saying there are multiple machines, there are multiple machines in my eyes.

Now the question is, will the other xbox branded machine(s) be for enthusiasts or are these leaked specs the enthusiast machine and whatever else is a apple tv competitor.

Only time will tell though adn more lilkey then not, i will be purchasing whatever microsoft launches simply because I am a microsoft fan and I enjoy playing video games with my brothers.

Doesn't mean I won't criticize and complain lol.

 

[Quasar]

After 7/8 years respectively, i personally expected more from both consoles, especially the xbox since Microsoft has the disposable income. 6x/8x jump just seems weak for a 8 year generation.

Isn't this mostly a chip design/architecture issue? I'm sure both Sony and MS want the most hey can get for a set of price and power limitations.

And they for the most part are stuck with the architectures developed by amd, nvidia, intel, etc.

 

[Xamdou]

Wondering if Achievements and current XBOX live gold balance carry over to the X720.

 

[Clay Davis]

Wondering if Achievements and current XBOX live gold balance carry over to the X720.

almost guaranteed I would have thought. games are still up in the air for both, but hopefully they'll offer a software solution if hardware is too costly / unworkable.

 

[Jack_AG]

I don't get your issue with the new consoles being more than game machines. Yes people have set top boxes but if you can get a new game machine and one that does everything the set top box does then it adds value. All that happens is they move the set top box to another TV in the house.

I hadn't realized it was an issue to me. I'm simply speaking as an observer. I already stated that I see how it can be a value to consumers. That doesn't change the fact that it's a saturated market nor does that mean I take issue with it.

I would, however, take issue if that everything box compromised and somehow... lessened the gaming experience because of the need to be an everything box.

See where I'm going with this? I just want to be clear here... I don't take issue with a box trying to do everything - I merely observe that the market is saturated so it will be harder to sell that value to people who already have a similar machine and aren't hindered by a paywall on those machines (provided MS still closes off access to apps via XBL Gold next gen).

 

[Doffen]

I don't see how Kinect 2.0 is even something that is a positive from a marketing perspective. How many decent Kinect 1.0 games came out? I know my sister bought a Kinect for her 3 kids, played a few dance games on it and got a few shitty kids games that controlled horribly and that was it. It seems to have moved a lot of hardware but they didn't support it at all with decent software afterwards. The Kinect release schedule since/including launch has been a poor attempt a humor. At this point it has to be a "fool me once" scenario for a lot of people. I would imagine that if it was improved and supported it might draw people back but there will be a hell of a lot of skeptical people.

You must be the first person I hear saying that Microsoft didn't push Kinect software enough.

But here's a few Kinect focused titles I enjoyed:

Dance Central 1-3
Kinectimals
Child of Eden
The Gunstringer
Kinect Sports 1-2
Kinect Party + Happy Action Theater
Sesame Street: Once Upon a Monster
Kinect Fun Labs
Fruit Ninja Kinect
Wreckateer

I believe that Kinect is quite bitter sweet for Microsoft when it comes to marketing, due to the fact that it throws off the core, but appeal to the casual.

 

[QaaQer]

That sounded pretty good back in the day...but now I usually have my iPod/iPad handy if I want to do any web searching.

yup, tablets have pretty much made console browsers worthless for me. Even the steam browser is more hassle than using my nexus.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

I don't see how Kinect 2.0 is even something that is a positive from a marketing perspective. How many decent Kinect 1.0 games came out? I know my sister bought a Kinect for her 3 kids, played a few dance games on it and got a few shitty kids games that controlled horribly and that was it. It seems to have moved a lot of hardware but they didn't support it at all with decent software afterwards. The Kinect release schedule since/including launch has been a poor attempt a humor. At this point it has to be a "fool me once" scenario for a lot of people. I would imagine that if it was improved and supported it might draw people back but there will be a hell of a lot of skeptical people.

this actually disgusts me a little.

The kinect is a brilliant piece of hardware, while i agree that it's use in games might be a little misguided, the tech, potential application, and other aspects are all amazing. To get a motion capture device that competes with the same accuracy would cost in the thousands. Personally i wished that everyone would buy one so microsoft would invest more in the product.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

this actually disgusts me a little.

The kinect is a brilliant piece of hardware, while i agree that it's use in games might be a little misguided, the tech, potential application, and other aspects are all amazing. To get a motion capture device that competes with the same accuracy would cost in the thousands. Personally i wished that everyone would buy one so microsoft would invest more in the product.

never.

 

[Zen]

I was simply making comparisons to the PS2 in terms of how some things may possibly be similar. You guys took it to a whole different "console war" level going in depth acting like I didn't know that there were differences.

I DO know that there are differences. My comparison was simply based on similarities and not on everything matching up 100%.

Alright.

Exclusivs online features and cheaper prices will probably matter a lot next gen when it comes to the consoles. I mean, if the consoles will be viewed as pretty similar in comparison to the Wii U, then the features that bring out differences between the two consoles are going to matter even more for people who can't afford to get both consoles.

Again, I never said it was going to be BIG, but it can definitely have an impact on one system becoming more popular than the other.

Fair enough.

 

[JohnnySasaki86]

Read this over on beyond3d and the post was pretty depressing. From what I can remember Acert93 is pretty well respected over there. I think hes wrong on a couple things, but mainly its higher resolution aspect nullifying a lot of the "power increases". I'm pretty sure there gonna stick with 720p for most games. Also I don't know where he got his bandwidth numbers, the ESRAM is supposed to be 102gb/s, and where is the 54 coming from?

People probably should stop using "PR metrics" from MS's marketing slides and "performance estimates" given to insiders as a baseline of Durango's performance.

From a pure numbers angle Durango is *not* 6-8x faster. Architecture aside: Fillrate is about 3x (4 vs. 12.8Gpixels), texturing is about 5x (8 vs. 38Gtexels), flops are about 5x (240 vs. 1200GFlops), about 3x triangles (500M vs. 1600M triangles/sec), aggregate bandwidth, counting only the bandwidth to the eDRAM and not the internal bandwidth is something less than 4x (54 vs. 170GB/s). Memory footprint is over 6-8x jump, once you count count the OS it is about 10x.

Durango is mostly in the 3x-5x range of raw peak performance improvement range.

Before the numbers are poo-poo'd with "efficiency of modern GPUs" I would note that Durango also has to perform at 1080p, counter diminishing returns, GPU performance doesn't necessarily increase linearly with raw specs (i.e. workflow issues), more expensive shaders to get better results, etc balance that out--especially the higher resolutions. So any appeal to "it will look 6-8x better" (whatever THAT means) is easily then cut in half but increasing resolution, which brings it back inline with 3x-5x or less in terms of "realized" potential.

The good news is Cape Verde seems quite capable of playing games like BF3, Batman AC, Dirt 3, etc at relatively high settings (minus AA) near 1080p at 30Hz so indeed Durango can play this generations worth of content the way mid-low range PCs currently do.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

This statement might not be applicable - seeing how close in architecture they both are. It's almost like comparing the same muscle car with the same cubes, suspension, etc - except one is super-charged and the other turbo, one has 400 ponies and the other 600. They are close enough in design to let the horsepower dictate the winner in the 1000ft without needing to plant rubber.

I could care less because both cars seem relatively fast and I'd be happy with either - but - there is a demographic that likes to know the clear winner in straight power and invest in that machine.

It then depends on the driver (3rd parties) and if he is willing to drive with the other car faster.

And it's hard to compare 1st parties as thats gonna be a thing of personal taste first. (except for games like Forza and GT)

 

[Devilgunman]

Remember the old day when we just looked at Bit and called the winner.

 

[Doffen]

Wondering if Achievements and current XBOX live gold balance carry over to the X720.

Xbox enabled titles on both Windows Store and Windows Phone Store feature achievements, so yes I would believe so.

 

[mrklaw]

MS doesn't want to get trapped again, like they were to some degree with their basic OS which was like 32 megs or something? How much of both memory pools (PS4 and 720) will be reserved for the OS?

Word on the street is that PS4 reserves 512 for the OS. How many concurrent programs/features can you fit in there running while you game? More importantly how many features can you get in there in 4 years, when you want features you haven't thought of today.

- Record from DVR in the background while playing games
- access horizontal media services like Hulu, Netflix, iplayer etc
- play blurays including 3D which wasn't even a spec when ps3 launched (so flexible and updatable)
- stream videos/pictures/music from DLNA media servers
- web browser
- messaging
- view photos
- play music
- voice chat in game
- upload game footage to YouTube (per game not OS level though)
- remote play ps3 games on PSP/vita (limited support)

On a 50MB OS isn't too shabby.

I'm sure you could do more with more, but 512MB should be plenty unless you're incredibly inefficient.

MS are going with a different tack which for some reason needs a lot of memory. But you don't need that much

 

[QaaQer]

So will these next gen consoles be comparable to current PC's? (sorry if this has been answered, I am still making my way through all the pages of this thread)

Timothy Lottes had a really cool blog post (fxaa creator) that talked about just how powerful the ability to program to the metal is. PC (and posibly durango if it is a win rt box) has 10 to 100 times the overhead as to the metal stuff. So, if these rumours are true, there is going to be some great stuff coming on Orbis and possibly Durango if MS don't PC-ify it. He said probably 2 years into the console's life, expect to see some stuff that cannot be done on any gaming PC today.

Edit: Lottes was careful to say several time "based on rumour specs" "if the rumoured specs are true" etc. despite that, console warriors stirred the shit and he deleted the post because nerd rage is rather unpleasant to deal with, so I cannot link to it.

 

[SapientWolf]

Timothy Lottes had a really cool blog post (fxaa creator) that talked about just how powerful the ability to program to the metal is. PC (and posibly durango if it is a win rt box) has 10 to 100 times the overhead as to the metal stuff. So, if these rumours are true, there is going to be some great stuff coming on Orbis and possibly Durango if MS don't PC-ify it. He said probably 2 years into the console's life, expect to see some stuff that cannot be done on any gaming PC today.

Edit: Lottes was careful to say several time "based on rumour specs" "if the rumoured specs are true" etc. despite that, console warriors stirred the shit and he deleted the post, so I cannot link to it.

No sane human being wants to code for a console in assembly. Fortunately, not everyone in the industry is sane.

 

[Jack_AG]

It then depends on the driver (3rd parties) and if he is willing to drive with the other car faster.

And it's hard to compare 1st parties as thats gonna be a thing of personal taste first. (except for games like Forza and GT)

If he doesn't drive the faster car faster - then he risks alienating his investors for poor performance You have a fast car - drive it like its fast or we stop giving you money.

As for 1st parties - I don't see how overall fidelity of a game is a matter of "personal taste". They either "do more" with the hardware or they don't. Pushing more of "everything" is actually measurable, not subjective. More polys is more polys. Higher fidelity lighting that is more taxing is... higher fidelity lighting that is more taxing. More stuff on screen is, well, more. Etc. DF still looks deep into 1st party titles for just this reason.

 

[ionicbluebird]

I think Microsoft is betting that DVR functionality will be to Durango as DVD movie playback was to PS2.

 

[phosphor112]

Read this over on beyond3d and the post was pretty depressing. From what I can remember Acert93 is pretty well respected over there. I think hes wrong on a couple things, but mainly its higher resolution aspect nullifying a lot of the "power increases". I'm pretty sure there gonna stick with 720p for most games. Also I don't know where he got his bandwidth numbers, the ESRAM is supposed to be 102gb/s, and where is the 54 coming from?

He sounds pretty wishful.

 

[Clay Davis]

- Record from DVR in the background while playing games
- access horizontal media services like Hulu, Netflix, iplayer etc
- play blurays including 3D which wasn't even a spec when ps3 launched (so flexible and updatable)
- stream videos/pictures/music from DLNA media servers
- web browser
- messaging
- view photos
- play music
- voice chat in game
- upload game footage to YouTube (per game not OS level though)
- remote play ps3 games on PSP/vita (limited support)

On a 50MB OS isn't too shabby.

I'm sure you could do more with more, but 512MB should be plenty unless you're incredibly inefficient.

MS are going with a different tack which for some reason needs a lot of memory. But you don't need that much

sony's os didn't start at 50mb did it? I thought it had a much bigger footprint.

regarding tyhe dvr functionality, you needed an accessory to get that to work, so I'm not sure if it really counts.

some of your other features are stretching the facts a little. very few games actually support uploading to youtube, and the web browser was and still is the worst pile of shit I've ever had the misfortune of using.

os footprint needs to be bigegr because the machines will be doing more natively. game recording at an os level, dvr functions at an os level (possibly), multi-tasking, video chat in game (god, I hope this is in for both) amongst other features we can't yet imagine.

 

[Mr.Wreckless]

I'm not saying it doesn't have a value for people, you're misinterpreting what I said. I'm saying it will be hard to compete in a market that is FILLED with boxes that already does everything this box will do and probably more for FREE and not hidden behind a paywall.

For consumers that already have an "everything box" - why would they buy another box that they have to feed money every year just to access functions that other boxes let you access for free?

Why do people pay extra for cars that have a GPS, Pandora, bluetooth connectivity, etc... when they are already paying for a phone that can do all that?

Its all about convenience. Never underestimate convenience.

 

[mrklaw]

Hopefully this means a shorter cycle, like 2018-2019 for new consoles. Makes sense. They couldn't wait until tech revolution in one or two years, so they are making reasonable machines that will be great for 4-5 years.

I like that a lot.

Also, i've said this earlier, it's not just the costs. Developers, right now, don't even have the tools or the man power to fully explore a console with 5-6 TF's, if Sony and Microsoft were targetting something like this.

There's is plenty of things to learn and wow us with those 2 TF or so machines.

In the meantime, let's all enjoy with the trolls the magnificent PC exclusives like Rfactor 2 and iRacing.

These games are pushing incredible visuals that can only be achieved on PCs with 5 or more TF's.

(please turn your sarcasm detector on).

I thnk it might happen (normal 5 year cycle)

If the tech jumps come along like predicted, then the consoles will age more rapidly, and both MS/Sony will see the potential jump in performance and the opportunity to leapfrog the other. Temptation may be too great.

Plus just because this gen was long doesn't mean anything. There is no consistency in this industry, no patterns you can define with accuracy.

 

[Joe White]

I just don't understand why complain now: these specs are just confirming the previous leaks, nothing has changed since then (except maybe ps4 specs) so why is the system suddenly doomed ITT ?

I think the cause for complaints comes mostly from comparison of Orbis and Durango. At this point it seems that both will have similar price tag and for that, Durango is offering lower spec hw with new user interface experience (Kinect2?) compared to better spec hw with just updated DS controller on Orbis. And before we see the actual games, features and that whole NUI, those higher specs sound like a better deal.

 

[eso76]

because things can change and there were ton of rumors floating around of things changing.

I still down deep am hoping that these specs are for a lower tier console and in fact there is an enthusiast sku that has not leaked simply because Paul thurrot said there are multiple xbox .

Doubt we're seeing two diff sku's in terms of GPU and whatnot.
Different games then ? Impossible.
Or same games with scalable graphics ?
Same games but 720p vs 1080p ?

None of this sounds practical for devs or auspicable for us tbh.

 

[EvB]

I don't think that could ever work for a home console. Development cycles take years. Devs would quickly be pissed not knowing final specs of the next iteration and whether they would have to down tools to up-spec their existing games.

The mobile sector is flooded with models, each trying to 1up the other. That's the nature of the business. Home console gaming has 3 major players. They don't need to refresh hardware every year to try and beat a competitor. I can see a subscription model, definitely, but year-on-year hardware revisions.....? Consumers would be absolutely lost with choice.

I don't think they would be any more pissed off than the current situation where they have to make games that work with and without HDDs.

If you had enough notice it wouldn't take much to make your game forward compatible , particularly if its a relatively simple change like an improvement in clock speed.
PC games work so I don't see why they couldn't design a console game like.

As for having too much choice, it's literally no different to when a slim model or new DS or iphone revision comes out. There is a short period where old stock is available but beyond that the only choice you have is the current model.

The other benefits for a console manufacturer would be that with each hardware cycle, which could be every 2 years you will end up with plenty of cheap second hand stock available to those casual gamers or for parents to get their young kids thus allowing to to sell more games without having to physically price cut your current hardware

 

[gofreak]

Read this over on beyond3d and the post was pretty depressing. From what I can remember Acert93 is pretty well respected over there. I think hes wrong on a couple things, but mainly its higher resolution aspect nullifying a lot of the "power increases". I'm pretty sure there gonna stick with 720p for most games. Also I don't know where he got his bandwidth numbers, the ESRAM is supposed to be 102gb/s, and where is the 54 coming from?

He's comparing bandwidth on 360 vs bandwidth on Durango.

360 = 22GB/s (main memory) + 32GB/s (from GPU parent die to daughter die) = 54GB/s

Durango = 68GB/s (main memory) + 102GB/s (from GPU to eSRAM) = 170GB/s

It's slightly different though. 360's ROPs were on the daughter die and had the run of 256GB/s of internal bandwidth (without compression). Durango's ROPs operate over the external bus to eSRAM and/or DDR3 (but with compression).

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

Doubt we're seeing two diff sku's in terms of GPU and whatnot.
Different games then ? Impossible.
Or same games with scalable graphics ?
Same games but 720p vs 1080p ?

None of this sounds practical for devs or auspicable for us tbh.

back in 2010 or even earlier, don't remember, Microsoft was talking about "forward" compatible games.

 

[MaulerX]

If you managed to read the paragraph in its entirety I addressed that. They must pay you PR fellows by the word.

See, this is the part I don't understand. What exactly makes me a "PR fellow"? That I pointed out and explained why the current Kinect is somewhat gimped by the limitations of the 360? And how said limitation would not be present with Kinect 2.0 thus you cannot judge it's performance based on what it's currently capable in it's current iteration? And your last highlighted sentence spoke of "IF it was improved". My post was more of "it WILL be improved". Surely, how improved remains to be seen. But I don't think anyone will argue that it won't, specially when leaked images pretty much confirm finger tracking.

 

[Jack_AG]

Why do people pay extra for cars that have a GPS, Pandora, bluetooth connectivity, etc... when they are already paying for a phone that can do all that?

Its all about convenience. Never underestimate convenience.

1.50 for a 20oz bottle of soda while the same brand's 2-liter is 99cents. I understand that. At the same time the economy isn't the greatest and people have been tightening their belts. I also don't see people making these purchases you speak of, you might be able to, but plenty of people can't afford to spend money on redundancy.

Edit: I'm off to bed now. I'm just observing bro. We will agree to disagree, fist-bump and carry on.

 

[chris0701]

- Record from DVR in the background while playing games
- access horizontal media services like Hulu, Netflix, iplayer etc
- play blurays including 3D which wasn't even a spec when ps3 launched (so flexible and updatable)
- stream videos/pictures/music from DLNA media servers
- web browser
- messaging
- view photos
- play music
- voice chat in game
- upload game footage to YouTube (per game not OS level though)
- remote play ps3 games on PSP/vita (limited support)

On a 50MB OS isn't too shabby.

I'm sure you could do more with more, but 512MB should be plenty unless you're incredibly inefficient.

MS are going with a different tack which for some reason needs a lot of memory. But you don't need that much

PS3 firmware weights around 190MB.
Most feature you listed are in application field.

 

[Kill Your Masters]

If he doesn't drive the faster car faster - then he risks alienating his investors for poor performance You have a fast car - drive it like its fast or we stop giving you money.

As for 1st parties - I don't see how overall fidelity of a game is a matter of "personal taste". They either "do more" with the hardware or they don't. Pushing more of "everything" is actually measurable, not subjective. More polys is more polys. Higher fidelity lighting that is more taxing is... higher fidelity lighting that is more taxing. More stuff on screen is, well, more. Etc. DF still looks deep into 1st party titles for just this reason.

Of course, but looking at this gen, 3rd parties did pretty good while releasing some shabby ports in the beginning for the PS3.

1st parties will push more, but the franchises need to be interesting for the players, if someone prefers Halo over Killzone or vice versa (I prefer neither btw) the poly coun't wont matter that much.

I'm mostly looking at 3rd parties and who will decide to push the more powerful system, that's at least where my money will be at, as I don't have a big need for any of the 1st parties that MS and Sony offer (which can change if they show me new IPs). But, I wouldn't be surprised if they go for parity (at least in the first year or so)