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[tonysidaway]

It's okay to like trash just as long as you know it's trash.

What's wrong with not "knowing" what you love is trash? For any popular TV show there are critics who will wave away the massive and growing audience figures and insist that they know better than the show runners. Yet most of us pay no heed to these nitpickers and go our merry way enjoying the TV shows we like on our own terms. We don't need somebody else's permission to enjoy the best television we can find.

 

[Yabberwocky]

I'm still astonished that GoT has gone from a show I annoyed the shit out of friends and family to watch in S1 & S2 (the dialogue! the characters! the genuinely morally gray characters!), to something that's pretty much ended up like TWD in my guilty pleasure category. It's not like GoT hasn't done great show only scenes in the past, especially in S1 - like Jaime and Tywin as Tywin skins the boar, or Robert and Cersei talking about their marriage - but I feel like so much of that nuance was lost, and now everything feels more black and white. I also feel like the book version of Tyrion would have given so much material for the wonderful Peter Dinklage to sink his teeth into, instead both he and Tyrion feel wasted. I feel like the only character who hasn't gotten the short end of the writing stick is Cersei, and Lena Headey is magnificent, as always.

Black Sails Season Four aired this year

...OK, yeah, I forgot about Black Sails. Yeah, that was really good. I really love me some GOT, but Black Sails was excellent. It's a tie, I'd say.

GOT wasn't bad but it is becoming pretty stale and predictable.

Black Sails was better.

The writing, acting, action sequences (not as big of a budget but better directing) and characters.

BLACK SAILS BUDDIES! The sword fighting choreography in 4x09/4x10 alone was phenomenal, plus the cinematography! I love Black Sails' use of shadow, contrasts, and color, it's such a stunning show. And the characters, and the dialogue - Flint's speeches in the last two episodes of the series alone, goddamn, and that's not even considering some rich and poignant moments from Silver, Madi, Rogers, Jack, etc. Plus all that delicious character foreshadowing and pay-off for S4 in general, so much of which was set-up all the way back in S1. I'm still so pleased that every single character in the main cast (and the supporting cast) was dense and complex and morally gray from beginning to end, and yet you knew exactly where each character is coming from, and why they made the choices that they did.

TL;DR: Black Sails scratched my S1/S2 GoT itch, basically.

 

[ProfessorLobo]

I'll truly fascinating how quick people turned on GoT.. People are fickle as fuck.

Yeah it only took three years of bad writing.

 

[old manatee]

Counter Point: Game of Thrones is, and always will be, the wind beneath our wings.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I'll truly fascinating how quick people turned on GoT.. People are fickle as fuck.

How quick? It's been 7 years.

I started questioning writing choices in Season 4 and Season 5 almost made me drop the show.

This has not been a quick turn around, I still think Seasons 1-3 are strong. The criticism is coming from a clear decline in quality.

Refute it if you want but you're in denial.

Season 7 has definitely been the weakest of the series so far. The show needed at least 3-4 more seasons to keep up with the pace of the past 6 seasons. Also the shows has been famous for incredible plot twists where everything crumbles faster than you can blink. Season 7 has been predictable, and the intense last two episodes of the each last season are gone. We now just have a dumbed down Lord of the Wrong mini series. And at the neck breaking pace they are going through I agree with Vox's opinion on the matter.

I agree, though 5 was bad. Season 7 rushes through so many plotlines and payoffs. The most bungled IMO is the Jon x Dany relationship, it just feels very rushed along from the point where they meet for something that seems to have been intended as an epic romance.

Then you have Euron, who is a shitty replacement for Ramsay, who was a decent replacement for Geoffrey.

 

[OG_Original Gamer]

The twist will be, it has all ways been a six year old kid playing with action figures, that unintentionally discovered porn on the Internet and watched to many episodes of Maury Povich with his babysitter.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

GoT used to be good because it didn't feel like it was trying to satisfy everyone. Season 7 in particular (and even before that) feels like it's trying way too hard to have moments that satisfy your stereotypical casual fan without the writing making much or any sense.

 

[HotHamBoy]

GoT used to be good because it didn't feel like it was trying to satisfy everyone. Season 7 in particular feels like it's trying way too hard to have moments that satisfy your stereotypical casual fan without the writing making much or any sense.

Because it's purely fanfiction now.

There are a lot of people who seem pleased with it, regardless, so I guess those people got what they were looking for.

 

[Discotheque]

Writing has been pretty bad for a while now. What made this last season fun despite that tho was that that were just throwing a bunch of long awaited events on screen. But the characterization and dialogue stinks. It's huge though. Only show I can really talk about with all my friends and family

 

[HotHamBoy]

Writing has been pretty bad for a while now. What made this last season fun despite that tho was that that were just throwing a bunch of long awaited events on screen. But the characterization and dialogue stinks. It's huge though. Only show I can really talk about with all my friends and family

A lot of people in this thread taking these observations too personally.

Even characters I like like Tyrion and Cersei have more and more bad scenes and weak characterization.
The scene between the two of them was excruciating. Very hammy.

 

[ConfirmationBiased]

To all those leaving cynical replies because they are already disappointed in Game of Thrones: this article presents what is probably the best analysis on Game of Thrones I have read so far. It points out what made the show great and what went wrong since season 5 with incredible accuracy, and also predicts what type of ending we're going to get in the end.

And though it saddens me greatly, the evidence for the worst possible ending is very convincing at this point.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

In the end? Did they see season 1-7?

Ftfy

 

[Surfinn]

Ahaha

Oh my.

Whatever you guys say.

I'm never gonna be one to argue that GoT is the best show on TV or God-tier or anything like that, but calling it "trash-tier soap opera" is hysterical amounts of hyperbole.

Wow

Imagine not reading my fucking posts

And totally misunderstanding my point

And missing the fact that we're actually in agreement

 

[andythinkpad]

S5 was the most offensive(Dorne, Sansa) but it wasn't as flimsy, disjointed and rushed as S7. It is the year D&D started clearly breaking under the weight of an increasingly bloated story.

Nah the Arya vs Waif will always be the most offensive.

Personally I have no problem with Littlefinger/show writer selling Sansa to Ramsay. It fits the series's gray morality better than GRRM's fake Sansa story.

 

[Kinglypuff]

A lot of people in this thread taking these observations too personally.

Even characters I like like Tyrion and Cersei have more and more bad scenes and weak characterization.
The scene between the two of them was excruciating. Very hammy.

Really ? I thought that was easily the best scene of the episode. Gave Cersei something else to do except acting evil, which is most of what she's been doing this year apart from a few interesting scenes.
Tyrion really has gone nowhere interesting since his escape though. A damn shame.

 

[Surfinn]

A lot of people in this thread taking these observations too personally.

Even characters I like like Tyrion and Cersei have more and more bad scenes and weak characterization.
The scene between the two of them was excruciating. Very hammy.

Excruciating. Hammy.

Lol Jesus. Hyperbole and mischaracterization have reached new heights

 

[andythinkpad]

Because it's purely fanfiction now.

There are a lot of people who seem pleased with it, regardless, so I guess those people got what they were looking for.

I agreed s7 is full of fanfic moments. But the fan services are so good! Gendry showing up with a war hammer! The Hound chatting up with Tormund. I ate it up!

 

[iamblades]

Nah the Arya vs Waif will always be the most offensive.

Personally I have no problem with Littlefinger/show writer selling Sansa to Ramsay. It fits the series's gray morality better than GRRM's fake Sansa story.

It's not a matter of the morality of the situation, it's about how stupid it requires the characters to be to do such a thing.

The swap of fake arya for Sansa made no sense from basically any of the characters involved POV. It instantly makes everyone involved look like an imbecile.

Why would Littlefinger put his most important piece in the game under the control of a total psychopath? Even assuming his creepy professions of love are bullshit, its a moronic plan.

Why would Sansa agree to such a thing after her experiences and what LF had been teaching her?

Why would the Boltons do such a thing when they are allied with the Lannisters? When such a marriage will never be legally valid?

The book plot made logical sense for all involved, the show plot makes sense for no one involved. You can't just take a side plot and swap in a main character and expect it to work without doing any of the work to actually have it make sense. It was lazy, hackish writing, and the first clear sign that the writers had no idea what they were doing with the story.

 

[jett]

LOL @ everyone in this thread acting as if GOT S7 was bad or the worst thing on TV,

So much hyperbole

yeah...

 

[HarryKS]

Don't know about you, but I love the actual fantasy stuff. Monsters and shit.

 

[jett]

It's not a matter of the morality of the situation, it's about how stupid it requires the characters to be to do such a thing.

The swap of fake arya for Sansa made no sense from basically any of the characters involved POV. It instantly makes everyone involved look like an imbecile.

Why would Littlefinger put his most important piece in the game under the control of a total psychopath? Even assuming his creepy professions of love are bullshit, its a moronic plan.

Why would Sansa agree to such a thing after her experiences and what LF had been teaching her?

Why would the Boltons do such a thing when they are allied with the Lannisters? When such a marriage will never be legally valid?

The book plot made logical sense for all involved, the show plot makes sense for no one involved. You can't just take a side plot and swap in a main character and expect it to work without doing any of the work to actually have it make sense. It was lazy, hackish writing, and the first clear sign that the writers had no idea what they were doing with the story.

I think D&D have shown they don't really the capability to carry on from GRRM left off, although to be fair that would a hard task for anyone, even more so people that have never written a fantasy novel in their lives. You could even make the case GRRM doesn't have capability to carry on from where he left off lol. Yeah the Sansa stuff was pretty dreadful all around, but It's probably better they re-appropriated elements from the books rather than create new stuff. Who knows to which further depths Season 5 could've sunk to.

 

[hoos30]

Funny to me that people complain that the show has gone down hill since they passed the books, but Hardhome, Battle of the Bastards, and Winds of Winter which are 3 of the best episodes of television ever are not from the books. Also the 4th and 5th book are pretty bad and meandering.

People discount these episodes, and the seasons which contain them. Don't know why.

 

[andythinkpad]

It's not a matter of the morality of the situation, it's about how stupid it requires the characters to be to do such a thing.

The swap of fake arya for Sansa made no sense from basically any of the characters involved POV. It instantly makes everyone involved look like an imbecile.

Why would Littlefinger put his most important piece in the game under the control of a total psychopath? Even assuming his creepy professions of love are bullshit, its a moronic plan.

Well show littlefinger didn't have a lot of feeling for Sansa, despite what he claimed

Why would Sansa agree to such a thing after her experiences and what LF had been teaching her?

Show Sansa is pretty stupid. Plus it was not up to her to say no. She could run away, or try to kill Ramsay, but its not up to her to say no.

Why would the Boltons do such a thing when they are allied with the Lannisters? When such a marriage will never be legally valid?


The book plot made logical sense for all involved, the show plot makes sense for no one involved. You can't just take a side plot and swap in a main character and expect it to work without doing any of the work to actually have it make sense. It was lazy, hackish writing, and the first clear sign that the writers had no idea what they were doing with the story.

My main issue of this subplot is that it runs too far away from the main overarching story. This is a real problem with book 4 and 5.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Its going to end like Warcraft...

 

[Acerac]

I'll truly fascinating how quick people turned on GoT.. People are fickle as fuck.

Crazy, it's almost like poor storytelling is enough to hurt opinions on a story!

How fickle people are, they are worse flip floppers than John Kerry, they don't know what they want!

 

[Turin]

Nah the Arya vs Waif will always be the most offensive.

lol. Not gonna argue with that.

 

[hoos30]

NeoGAF has a culture that encourages nitpicking, and this can often give a false impression. The idea that Game of Thrones is unpopular is not borne out by the audience figures, which show a steady, monotonic and substantial increase in average audience from each season to the next. The increase from Season 6 to Season 7, 7.69 million to 10.26 million, is by far the largest. The final episode of Season 7, which has been fiercely criticised on this very thread, was the most popular episode of the show ever broadcast.

This is the main problem, imo. Nerds do not like it when their culture get appropriated by the masses. Too popular? It's gotta be "dumbed down" or terrible. Some posters mentioned Black Sails as an example of a better show. I like it as well, but I have yet to meet another person irl who knows what it is.

I've never seen a wider gap between popular reception and "internet" reception for an ip.

 

[Sean C]

Well show littlefinger didn't have a lot of feeling for Sansa, despite what he claimed

No, he did. Everyone from the writers to the actor have said so.

Show Sansa is pretty stupid.

No, she's supposed to be very smart, according to the writers and the actress.

 

[PixelatedBookake]

lol. Not gonna argue with that.

lmaoooo I can't believe that fucking happened. Everything in Bravvos sucked so much ass.

 

[Rixxan]

Yikes dude

People comparing game of thrones to McDonalds like it's a basic cable sitcom - my heart can't take it

I'll truly fascinating how quick people turned on GoT.. People are fickle as fuck.

You won't find a vocal minority as loud as GAF many places on be net - westeros.org is similar but they've hated the show since season 1

It's cool to hate the show now - too many people watch it, no way it can still provide value beyond "spectacle"

 

[jond76]

I'm hoping for a twist ending.
The snow melts and holy shit, the Statue of Liberty.

Yes. The Walking Dead and Reign of Fire are cannon here. Just way in the future.

 

[iamblades]

Well show littlefinger didn't have a lot of feeling for Sansa, despite what he claimed



Show Sansa is pretty stupid. Plus it was not up to her to say no. She could run away, or try to kill Ramsay, but its not up to her to say no.



My main issue of this subplot is that it runs too far away from the main overarching story. This is a real problem with book 4 and 5.

I was not defending the existence of the subplot, other that that it is logically consistent in the books as opposed to the show. I think even George would admit the subplots got completely out of control in books 4 and 5.

But if you are going to cut it, then cut it, you can't just hack another character into a place built for someone else without fundamentally altering their characterization.

It's fine to cut fake arya/the grand northern conspiracy and lady stoneheart, but when you keep all the substantive plot beats in place and just shift them all onto Sansa and Arya, you make Sansa a complete moron and Arya a sociopathic monster, which was never the point of those characters.

 

[tonysidaway]

This is the main problem, imo. Nerds do not like it when their culture get appropriated by the masses. Too popular? It's gotta be "dumbed down" or terrible.

I don't think it's a problem, really. It's just important to recognise that this cultural echo chamber exists, and that it tends to blind unwary gaffers to how highly the rest of the world values shows that they hate.

I just noticed that Season 5, which has been described here in very unflattering terms, was a big winner of awards. The Dornish subplot and the horrific rape scene of episode 6 were widely disliked, though, so some of the criticism here is fairly well grounded.

 

[AntraxSuicide]

Martin is also unable to end the series, that much should be obvious considering how much he struggles to wrap up Winter. The series' writers receive too much hate: there's some questionable to bad writing, but when trying to wrap up a complex game of 3D chess you'll end up with a mediocre plot line or another. Relative to the task they've to achieve, they are handling GoT really well.

That being said, the ending will obviously be a disappointment to a lot of people. There will be unanswered plot holes, there will be characters making questionable decisions for the sake of continueing the story, and - obviously - after a years and years of wishes and theories, lots of fans will be disappointed because it won't have the ending they envisioned for the series.

Martin's trouble is for the opposite reason. He doesn't want to need an eighth book but he keeps writing more stuff.

The show on the other hand is giving itself 6 episodes to wrap up. A better metaphor would be if Martin only had a novella to finish the books. It's not a crazy idea that such a rushed ending will be disappointing. I'm noticing that taking its toll on people who watch the show. A lot of people were posting about the teleportation in the last season. And that's probably going to get much worse.

 

[Surfinn]

Vox's next article: why every possible GoT spin-off will SUCK

 

[UrbanRats]

There is a narrative being pushed and the narrative is that Season 5 is terrible. Now whether people are saying it is terrible compared to other seasons are terrible compared to tv in general is not usually specified. Even in this case, after Season 7, Season 5 is definitely not the worst the show has to offer. Also opinions can be wrong, so I'm not entirely sure why it matters if it is just someone's opinion.

Hey, you're free to go ahead and list all the reasons why people are wrong to say they didn't like Season 5.
I suspect you're gonna just end up in a semantics argument about how terrible is "terrible" as a definition, and what other synonyms would be more appropriate (bad; not great; pick your favorite one), but that's just my guess.

 

[CloudWolf]

It's not a matter of the morality of the situation, it's about how stupid it requires the characters to be to do such a thing.

The swap of fake arya for Sansa made no sense from basically any of the characters involved POV. It instantly makes everyone involved look like an imbecile.

Why would Littlefinger put his most important piece in the game under the control of a total psychopath? Even assuming his creepy professions of love are bullshit, its a moronic plan.

Why would Sansa agree to such a thing after her experiences and what LF had been teaching her?

Why would the Boltons do such a thing when they are allied with the Lannisters? When such a marriage will never be legally valid?

The book plot made logical sense for all involved, the show plot makes sense for no one involved. You can't just take a side plot and swap in a main character and expect it to work without doing any of the work to actually have it make sense. It was lazy, hackish writing, and the first clear sign that the writers had no idea what they were doing with the story.

Agreed on all of this. Aside from this, that plot line, the widespread criticism of that one scene and the way D&D reacted to it also created a downward spiral that brought almost every other plot line down with it. This Reddit thread is a great analysis as to why that plotline was terrible and the effects it had on the writing of the show.

 

[Razmos]

Every ending has a chance to disappoint people, especially for a popular show like this.

What a bullshit pointless article.

 

[DeathyBoy]

Irrespective of GOT quality, if LOTR books first came out in this day and age you'd have people online calling them trash and criticising the ending for being "a letdown."

 

[barit]

Funny thing is I started reading the books after seeing S1/S2. I was blown away what I saw and needed immediately more of that world. After I read every book and the S3 final was aired I already saw the decline between the original material and the TV show. Like I understood why so many side characters and smaller families were cut from the show. It was just too much but when D&D started to cut very important characters just because of budget reason I knew the show was fucked up.

At least I'm thankful that D&D introduced me to ASOIAF. Without them I would've never found the books. Too bad that even GRRM let me down thanks to not finishing his damn own saga.

 

[UberLevi]

I'll probably enjoy it regardless, I try to keep a positive mindset when I watch shows and play games because I've already got too many real life struggles to start getting let down by the media I consume.

 

[rambis]

LOL, reading these articles or some forums it looks like a show as GOT is some terrible shit.

Internet is dark and full of terror.

Everybody's a critic.

Its funny that you hear and read all the bitching and whining just knowing that the person is still undoubtedly going to watch every episode and is gonna be livid if they get spoiled.

People's commentary is mostly toothless and meaningless. I usually don't pay attention.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

I think I have come to a point now where I really have no interest in reading any OT for stuff on here now and the GOT and Rick and Morty ones were what tipped me over.

Reading OTs now just leaves me feeling so shitty these days, I watched the season seven finale and thought 'damn, what a fantastic episode. Let's see how much others liked it there must be a lot of buzx' only to find some of the most hyperbolic reviews and opinions I have probably ever seen.

'worst season ever', 'writing is so dumb', 'no laughs at all (r&m).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but what exactly do you get from going into OTs if you like a show? Comments about how terrible and stupid the show is and how it should be killed off.

It's just not fun to even bother discussing it because most people seem to have no ability to appreciate anything good anymore. I know good is subjective but when you see time and time again that a community all turns on a show yet your sitting there thinking 'I'm still loving this' it just makes me want to not bother engaging with anyone about it which is really sad.

 

[N7.Angel]

Irrespective of GOT quality, if LOTR books first came out in this day and age you'd have people online calling them trash and criticising the ending for being "a letdown."

Of course, I mean, it's the internet.

 

[Hrothgar]

I think I have come to a point now where I really have no interest in reading any OT for stuff on here now and the GOT and Rick and Morty ones were what tipped me over.

Reading OTs now just leaves me feeling so shitty these days, I watched the season seven finale and thought 'damn, what a fantastic episode. Let's see how much others liked it there must be a lot of buzx' only to find some of the most hyperbolic reviews and opinions I have probably ever seen.

'worst season ever', 'writing is so dumb', 'no laughs at all (r&m).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but what exactly do you get from going into OTs if you like a show? Comments about how terrible and stupid the show is and how it should be killed off.

It's just not fun to even bother discussing it because most people seem to have no ability to appreciate anything good anymore. I know good is subjective but when you see time and time again that a community all turns on a show yet your sitting there thinking 'I'm still loving this' it just makes me want to not bother engaging with anyone about it which is really sad.

I feel the same. Sure I have my own nitpicks, but I don't go totally overboard with them. Reading the OT is like feeding on a downward spiral of 'hate'.

Luckily almost everyone of my friends and acquaintances are very excited about next season, so there are still people I can talk with about GoT.

 

[SgtCobra]

I'm pretty satisfied to be honest, the pacing could've been better and the writing is not what it used to be but it still is by far my favorite show on TV at the moment.
At least it's not the monumental failure some make it out to be.

 

[theignoramus]

It's okay to like trash just as long as you know it's trash.

Sometimes I choose to eat at McDonald's. So do a billion other people. The problem is when McDonald's is mistaken for fine dining.

The shows plotting may have taken a dip, but I enjoy the lack of trashy sex scenes and gleeful torture that was present in the show the first 5 seasons.

 

[theignoramus]

I think I have come to a point now where I really have no interest in reading any OT for stuff on here now and the GOT and Rick and Morty ones were what tipped me over.

Reading OTs now just leaves me feeling so shitty these days, I watched the season seven finale and thought 'damn, what a fantastic episode. Let's see how much others liked it there must be a lot of buzx' only to find some of the most hyperbolic reviews and opinions I have probably ever seen.

'worst season ever', 'writing is so dumb', 'no laughs at all (r&m).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but what exactly do you get from going into OTs if you like a show? Comments about how terrible and stupid the show is and how it should be killed off.

It's just not fun to even bother discussing it because most people seem to have no ability to appreciate anything good anymore. I know good is subjective but when you see time and time again that a community all turns on a show yet your sitting there thinking 'I'm still loving this' it just makes me want to not bother engaging with anyone about it which is really sad.

I agree. I also remember back when S5 was airing, people were threatening to quit the show because the sexual violence and torture was excessive and disgusting. Thank God they've dialed that back.

 

[tonysidaway]

At least it's not the monumental failure some make it out to be.

A massive understatement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_awards_and_nominations_received_by_Game_of_Thrones

 

[rambis]

I think I have come to a point now where I really have no interest in reading any OT for stuff on here now and the GOT and Rick and Morty ones were what tipped me over.

Reading OTs now just leaves me feeling so shitty these days, I watched the season seven finale and thought 'damn, what a fantastic episode. Let's see how much others liked it there must be a lot of buzx' only to find some of the most hyperbolic reviews and opinions I have probably ever seen.

'worst season ever', 'writing is so dumb', 'no laughs at all (r&m).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions of course but what exactly do you get from going into OTs if you like a show? Comments about how terrible and stupid the show is and how it should be killed off.

It's just not fun to even bother discussing it because most people seem to have no ability to appreciate anything good anymore. I know good is subjective but when you see time and time again that a community all turns on a show yet your sitting there thinking 'I'm still loving this' it just makes me want to not bother engaging with anyone about it which is really sad.

Basically this. Its almost nonsensical to me that people threaten to "quit the show" and wish it were dead, yet they never ever follow thru and are right back in the threads next week whining again about how it should be killed. I dont mind negative opinions, but they are never just that, they are hyperbolic to the nth degree. At some point it becomes thread shitting and whining just to be able to read yourself whine.