metareferential
Member
I know, I know.
But still, variable refresh rate has been a thing (or rather, a must-have) for pc gaming for quite some time now.
It's actually awesome that consoles now get to participate. It really is a game-changer.
VRR coming to PS5 via firmware update in Spring 2022
- Thread starter kyliethicc
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But still, variable refresh rate has been a thing (or rather, a must-have) for pc gaming for quite some time now.
It's actually awesome that consoles now get to participate. It really is a game-changer.
Mr Moose
Member
PS5: The Ultimate FAQ
Everything you want to know about PlayStation 5, all in one place.
blog.playstation.com
Does PS5 support VRR?
PS5 hardware supports Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) through HDMI 2.1. After a future system software update, PS5 owners will be able to use the VRR feature of compatible TVs when playing games that support VRR.
Riky
$MSFT
No doubt.
But when framerates drop I'd rather have the option of VRR than put up with screen tearing and judder.
I know it's hard for you to understand.
GHG
Member
I guarantee it won't even get a mention anymore by DF once it's enabled on the PS5.
One has to wonder why Alex even bothers to create and fine tune "optimised" settings in his PC specific videos when he could simply say "fuck it lads, VRR".
Sony do lock framerates for their games though, they actually take the time and effort to optimise, even if it's a 45hz mode.
They will also have the data on how many gamers have VRR capable displays, hence the priority level has evidently been low. The way that some people go on here you would think these consoles come with coupons for a free 4k VRR capable TV. They don't. The situation is even more dire if you have a high end sound system that you run your consoles through. That's not even mentioning the issues a lot of TV's have when running with VRR enabled.
It's good that it's coming considering it's something they advertised, so they are doing the right thing but anyone expecting this to be some game changing update is most likely going to be disappointed. Just my two cents.
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93xfan
Banned
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Lognor
Banned
Sony does locked framerate for their games. The couple of games they release a year. What about the hundreds of other games that release on the PS5 not published by Sony? Does Sony force those devs to frame lock? No? Okay then. Not sure why you are mentioning only Sony games when they make so few games. If that's all you play, cool. But look at the sales charts. Most PS5 games sold are not locked frame rates.
kyliethicc
Member
1. VRR has always been confirmed by Sony to be coming to PS5 via update. Its in the official specs and FAQs.
2. This news is coming from Sony themselves officially.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Riky
$MSFT
So would everyone.
But in the real world that's not the case, Sony obviously realise this so they are bringing VRR to the console.
Bernd Lauert
Banned
And I'd rather have Madison Beer suck me off on a daily basis, but it's simply not happening, so I'll take the next best thing.
imagine a "ur mom" joke or something similar
Mister Wolf
Member
I'll believe it when I see it. Not the new TVs, I'm sure they will be fine. Let's see if they make good with the old ones without issues.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
dotnotbot
Member
I'm pretty sure new TVs have the exact same processor as 2021 ones, not a single hint at anything new when it comes to the processing power and still only 2x 2.1 ports. So the software will be virtually the same, you'll probably even be able to install software from K series on J series like you could in the past with some other Sony TVs (X95H soft on X95G for example).
Unless you mean X90H, then that TV might be fucked.
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TheFawz
Member
Technically you can do 4K res at 120hz with 32GBps if you lower BitRate to 10 instead of 12 and use 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 instead of 4:4:4 (RGB) but that's a shitty concesion to have to make
No really. Sony doesn't want you going out and buying a Samsung TV with your PS5.
Image quality only degrades on sony TVs that do not really support 4k120 like the x9...h/j (xh/j90) series. When you set your console to 60hz + VRR on those TVs everything should be fine. But as 120 FPS games are not that great in image quality on current gen consoles, it might still be a good sacrifice.
saintjules
Member
I'd want to wait for the announcement from Sony themselves in some blog post or something.
I think that ship has sailed with many users now lol.
I think that ship has sailed with many users now lol.
twilo99
Member
They act like Apple sometimes..
Not always. There was a time during the PS2/PS3 era where Sony Corp and SIE worked well together. You had a PS2 DVD player and a PS3 Blu-Ray player at launch. That changed with the PS4 era where they weren't as well connected. SIE wanted to include a UHD BD drive in the PS4 Pro (because MS put one in the Xbox One S and X), but Sony Corp killed it in favor of trying to push their standalone UHD players. With physical media dying off, it wasn't such a huge deal to include it in the PS5.
kyliethicc
Member
Actually some recent Samsung TVs have significant gamma inaccuracies when VRR is enabled.
Dream-Knife
Banned
I don't think they're powerful enough to run many games beyond 4k60 though? Seems like a non-issue.
I love VRR, but I'm on the side of devs should optimize better on console. If you target 4k60, you should deliver 4k60. VRR is for really pushing high refresh rates on various hardware specs. In reality the problem is AAA game developers are releasing unfinished broken games. Gamers need to hold them accountable. They already have adaptive resolutions...
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Time to do a happy dance.
GG Sony! Looking forward to this and so is my TV.
on pc VRR and G Sync basically allows you to bump up your settings and still have a very smooth experience. Hopefully devs master this and maybe allow a vrr option for graphics where you get the highest res and settings possible with a. Fluctuating framerate for those with VRR enabled displays.
that would be the best for everyone, then those without the tv can be happy knowing they are getting a. Locked 30 or 60 fps with lower settings and can carry on going on about VRR not being a big deal.
we will probs get people complaining that it's not fair that the VRR option looks better but has fluctuating framerate and that the devs should develop their games better with no understanding that increasing settings and effects etc will affect performance.
GG Sony! Looking forward to this and so is my TV.
on pc VRR and G Sync basically allows you to bump up your settings and still have a very smooth experience. Hopefully devs master this and maybe allow a vrr option for graphics where you get the highest res and settings possible with a. Fluctuating framerate for those with VRR enabled displays.
that would be the best for everyone, then those without the tv can be happy knowing they are getting a. Locked 30 or 60 fps with lower settings and can carry on going on about VRR not being a big deal.
we will probs get people complaining that it's not fair that the VRR option looks better but has fluctuating framerate and that the devs should develop their games better with no understanding that increasing settings and effects etc will affect performance.
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ZywyPL
Banned
Better late than never. But hey, only here you'll read that V-sync with it's added input-lag is better than VRR! Unsurprisingly tho it comes from the same people who over the past 2 years desperately tried to convince us that the SSD renders the image, color me surprised.
Now, with both consoles having the feature, I really hope that an unlocked framerate option will slowly start becoming a norm in the console landscape aside the usual 4K30 and performance modes, really, give people who invested in good TVs a native 4K and whatever the game runs at already.
Now, with both consoles having the feature, I really hope that an unlocked framerate option will slowly start becoming a norm in the console landscape aside the usual 4K30 and performance modes, really, give people who invested in good TVs a native 4K and whatever the game runs at already.
kyliethicc
Member
Sony actually said it was to cut costs and avoid segmenting the PS4 user base. Had to make some cuts to fit PS4 Pro into the $400 price. They also had the DualSense ready since 2016, but chose not to release a new DS4 with haptics with the Pro. Same reason - didn't want to create haves and have nots within PS4 ecosystem. Held them back for PS5.
PS5 going to BDXLs and UHDBDD is necessary for fitting larger games on disc. And as Cerny said, part of what defines a new PlayStation generation is a new media format. CD, DVD, BD, and now BXDL.
Calverz
Member
Full RDNA2 featureset?Seems like it is coming…
I wonder what Ricky will be talking after
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dotnotbot
Member
X90J and X90H are not the same, X90J has no VRR yet.
rofif
Banned
Guys. That's not news. He is speculating. Lol watch the video.
I would much more hope for full always 120hz mode. Would benefit 30, 40 and 60 fps locked games more than pointless vrr for locked games…
Besides. Oled looks better at 120hz than 60hz. 60hz is tiny bit more washed out and fps spikes can look like flicker
I would much more hope for full always 120hz mode. Would benefit 30, 40 and 60 fps locked games more than pointless vrr for locked games…
Besides. Oled looks better at 120hz than 60hz. 60hz is tiny bit more washed out and fps spikes can look like flicker
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Fess
Member
Not everyone has gsync/freesync on PC. I only have it on one of my screens, when it's not there you want the framerate to be as locked as you can possibly get it, same as on consoles. The devs "never" optimize and lock the fps, the user can cap it if the minimum fps is always above the cap.
62-76fps, cap to 60 on 60hz screens.
75-89fps, cap to 72 on 144hz screens. Etc.
The "fun" thing with gsync/freesync/vrr is that you can never show someone how awesome it is. Can't show it with a video capture on the net or see it on a phone or film it or anything, the variable sync smoothness can only be seen on the actual gsync/freesync/vrr screen connected to the gsync/freesync/vrr capable device. So it's obviously difficult to sell to anyone who can't see it. You have to see it for yourself to believe it sounds like a corny thing to say, but that's exactly how it is.
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Kuranghi
Member
Can't wait to see how many zones the 65" X95K has. Please jesu christi finally make a 4K LCD thats better than the ZD9.
I hope for at least 792 like the QN94/95A, but I reckon it will be slightly less than that to keep the cost down unfortunately. I think ~500 with the modern algorithm will still match at least my 65" ZD9 with ~650 zones but I'm hoping for something to blow it out the water.
I hope for at least 792 like the QN94/95A, but I reckon it will be slightly less than that to keep the cost down unfortunately. I think ~500 with the modern algorithm will still match at least my 65" ZD9 with ~650 zones but I'm hoping for something to blow it out the water.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I've had g sync for like 6 or 7 years it's crazy to think people are still only getting to see it's benefits now. I honestly find it quite surprising that people aren't sold on it or have a hard time in seeing how genuinely game changing it is.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Fess
Member
Yup. But it's likely because they've still never seen it. Everything that is said now in discussions was said in this thread 7 years ago.
G-Sync is the god-level gaming upgrade.
It totally blows me away. With the way things currently run, almost every frame is either late or missed. It's taken my Q6600/750ti/4GB setup and made it feel relevant again. I'm not even really sure why I'm building a new system anymore. If Sony were smart, they'll have this or FreeSync...
ethomaz
Banned
I suppose you are on PC, no?
Why do you want variable framerate instead fixed framerate in a fixed hardware? I mean you won't have different performance dictated by the hardware your end-user has.
Every PS5 owner has the same PS5 hardware... you won't have different performance across PS5s... everybody has the same performance.
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Arioco
Member
On PS5 you can play at 4K@120 fps with HDR the same games you can play os Series X, can't you?
And full bandwidth for HDMI 2.1 is 48 GB/s, by the way.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
because games are not a definite when it comes to performance, there is always the chance that something random could happen that affects performance.
Take returnal for example, there are situations where a room may tank into the 40s due to the random nature of the game. This has happened to me numerous times. VRR would help massively here and allow the game to stay as hectic as the randomiser has intended and not need to reduce enemy count or variety to hit a solid 60fps. If it did it would actually affect the gameplay of the game as it wouldn't be as hectic.
it also covers the dev for any unintentional drops and also allows them to push the hardware to the absolute maximum.
imagine ratchet with a fluctuating 4k RT mode that could fluctuate from 60 to 40fps and still feel smooth, would be excellent.
ethomaz
Banned
Something random in a fixed hardware?
What are you even talking about?
If you have a stress part you just optimize/change to it run better on fixed hardware.
The hardware is fixed... the same for all... there is nothing random happening... everything the Developer tested is what the end-user will experience.
One of the advantages of fixed hardware development is not having any random variable.
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ethomaz
Banned
HDR is just 10bit color depth.
PS5 output 120fps at 4:2:2 if I'm not wrong.
So yes 32GB/s is indeed enough for 4k 120fps HDR.
BTW there are games that runs at 4k 120fps HDR on PS5.
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ethomaz
Banned
PS5 outputs 4k 120fps HDR... it just fine.
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Doctor Hades
Member
I have to say that I have enjoyed every second of using my PS5 since I got it at launch in November 2020. I think it is a great piece of hardware with some fantastic first-party exclusives such as Ratchet & Clank: Rift Apart which was my Game of 2021.
However, I will say that I was extremely disappointed to discover that the console didn't support VRR at launch (or the internal SSD expansion for that matter) as I cannot stand screen tearing. I find it so distracting and notice even mild tearing, more so since I bought a 55" TV for current gen gaming. Playing games such as Assassin's Creed: Valhalla at 60 fps was great on PS5 but sadly marred by ugly bouts of screen tearing on the PS5. Far Cry 6 released last month is perhaps the worst offender; the PS5 version is pretty much unplayable for me. Thankfully, most PS5 games are well-optimised and run at 60 fps with v-sync but there are some games such as Resident Evil Village with RT on that feel stuttery. VRR would help not only with tearing but also framerate dips below 60 fps.
The lack of VRR support is the main reason I bought an Xbox Series X in December. This will be my third-party platform of choice from now on (especially for UbiSoft games as they seem to have a thing for screen tearing!) as VRR works flawlessly on my LG B9 (from August 2019, Sony!!!). For the past few weeks I've been enjoyed tear-free, stutter-free gaming on what is arguably. in my humble opinion, the best console hardware this generation, not in terms of performance but basic features. VRR, ALLM and expandable SSD storage were there from launch on Xbox Series consoles and not added many months down the line like on PS5. Far Cry 6 and AC: Valhalla all run smoothly without tearing on Xbox Series X as does WRC 10 and other games I've tested which had screen tearing on PS5. For me, it's a transformative experience in the same way as it was on my PC back in 2017 when I bought my first G-SYNC display.
Sony have certainly been dragging their heels with VRR and I fear that by the time it is implemented on PS5 that many developers will not support it as a standard. Personally, I found the excuse that VRR is late because it isn't supported on Sony TVs and they didn't want their owners to have a lesser experience than owners of other TVs to be suspect at best and downright insulting at worst. I mean most people buying a PS5 will already own a TV so few people are going to rush out a buy an (in my opinion, overpriced) Sony TV just for VRR support.. If they own a 55"+ Samsung or LG (like I do) from the last two years then they will likely already have a TV capable of VRR. My Xbox One X has supported VRR for four years and I was using it with my LG B9 back in August 2019 (Wolfenstein 2 was fantastic with VRR)!
I certainly will not be holding my breath for VRR on PS5 as I suspect it'll be some weird variant that only works properly on Sony TVs. I honestly would not put that past Sony at this point. I guess we'll see. The 32 GB/sec of bandwidth for HDMI 2.1 that the PS5 has available is certainly a concern though; will VRR be limited to 40-60 Hz only? Sure, it'll be fine for most people but the Xbox Series X already supports 4K 120 Hz with HDR and VRR and it works seamlessly on my 2019 TV so being limited to 60 Hz would be a letdown, particularly as VRR is needed more for 120 Hz games as that framerate is much harder to lock at.
However, I will say that I was extremely disappointed to discover that the console didn't support VRR at launch (or the internal SSD expansion for that matter) as I cannot stand screen tearing. I find it so distracting and notice even mild tearing, more so since I bought a 55" TV for current gen gaming. Playing games such as Assassin's Creed: Valhalla at 60 fps was great on PS5 but sadly marred by ugly bouts of screen tearing on the PS5. Far Cry 6 released last month is perhaps the worst offender; the PS5 version is pretty much unplayable for me. Thankfully, most PS5 games are well-optimised and run at 60 fps with v-sync but there are some games such as Resident Evil Village with RT on that feel stuttery. VRR would help not only with tearing but also framerate dips below 60 fps.
The lack of VRR support is the main reason I bought an Xbox Series X in December. This will be my third-party platform of choice from now on (especially for UbiSoft games as they seem to have a thing for screen tearing!) as VRR works flawlessly on my LG B9 (from August 2019, Sony!!!). For the past few weeks I've been enjoyed tear-free, stutter-free gaming on what is arguably. in my humble opinion, the best console hardware this generation, not in terms of performance but basic features. VRR, ALLM and expandable SSD storage were there from launch on Xbox Series consoles and not added many months down the line like on PS5. Far Cry 6 and AC: Valhalla all run smoothly without tearing on Xbox Series X as does WRC 10 and other games I've tested which had screen tearing on PS5. For me, it's a transformative experience in the same way as it was on my PC back in 2017 when I bought my first G-SYNC display.
Sony have certainly been dragging their heels with VRR and I fear that by the time it is implemented on PS5 that many developers will not support it as a standard. Personally, I found the excuse that VRR is late because it isn't supported on Sony TVs and they didn't want their owners to have a lesser experience than owners of other TVs to be suspect at best and downright insulting at worst. I mean most people buying a PS5 will already own a TV so few people are going to rush out a buy an (in my opinion, overpriced) Sony TV just for VRR support.. If they own a 55"+ Samsung or LG (like I do) from the last two years then they will likely already have a TV capable of VRR. My Xbox One X has supported VRR for four years and I was using it with my LG B9 back in August 2019 (Wolfenstein 2 was fantastic with VRR)!
I certainly will not be holding my breath for VRR on PS5 as I suspect it'll be some weird variant that only works properly on Sony TVs. I honestly would not put that past Sony at this point. I guess we'll see. The 32 GB/sec of bandwidth for HDMI 2.1 that the PS5 has available is certainly a concern though; will VRR be limited to 40-60 Hz only? Sure, it'll be fine for most people but the Xbox Series X already supports 4K 120 Hz with HDR and VRR and it works seamlessly on my 2019 TV so being limited to 60 Hz would be a letdown, particularly as VRR is needed more for 120 Hz games as that framerate is much harder to lock at.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
So you are saying the returnal devs want the framerate to drop to 40fps?
you do know that there is obviously rendering going on and anomalies can happen in any game. It takes crazy work and skill for dev teams to guarantee an absolutely locked framerate, that's why we only see handfuls of devs nailing it. Naughty dog, playground games, insomniac. Etc
when I say random I'm not meaning the hardware, I mean the software having a random unintended situation happen. Too many grenades go off at once or something of that nature that tanks the performance. In returnal case this could be too many of a certain type of enemy in a graphically demanding room.
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ZywyPL
Banned
The "problem" with showing off VRR is actually not what you can see, but what you don't see t judder, tearing, input lag etc., because how are you going to show people all those drawback if the're not there anymore?
ethomaz
Banned
I'm saying yes Returnal devs shipped the game dropping to 40fps... it is a fixed hardware after all... they know it.
There is no anomalies that the dev didn't know in a fixed hardware rendering.
The hardware is fixed... it runs exactly the same in every single machine.
The framerate the dev shipped will be the same to everybody... so it in dev hands to ship a constant framerate game.
There is no random variable.
That is not random... that is a expected behavior that dev coded to happen.
You know the limit of how many grenades can be throw at the same time was set by the dev themselves.... including the animation, effects, physics, etc.
Same for the number of enemies... etc etc etc.
The developer has control from all of that.
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rofif
Banned
Yes that's correct.
I was surprised to see no difference on ps5 when playing 4k40fps120hz ratchet. People said that 4:2:2 looks worse but I couldn't detect anything wrong.
So full on always 120hz on ps5 would be welcome
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