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[gabbo]

Fanmade title screen:

Something about this image doesn't seem right to me.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Astrolad's still got it.



I think he was being sarcastic. :]



Hah.

Such a lame joke though.

 

[mescalineeyes]

Fanmade title screen:

Oh hey, look, someone stopped paying attention to typography 5 years ago.

Also, holy shit at 700k.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

Told ya so:

We are leaning towards isometric but we want to show some screens in our forum for fan feedback. You guys are my new boss after all.

 

[Vlodril]

Well i added my 15. First kickstart project and i didn't even know the first game. Like what i am hearing though and he has made some of my favorite games (stonekeep).

This is a great idea for gaming. Also waiting for avellone i'll put more than 50 for him. DO IT!

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Dang, this is crazy. They're gonna blow past their target dates.

Looks like I'm going to have to read up on Wasteland, but I've always been a sucker for post-apocalyptic settings so I'll likely end up chipping in.

 

[Sentenza]

Told ya so:

There are two ways to play a tactical RPG: the one where you play with an isometric view and the wrong one.

 

[Sinatar]

I hope he doesn't concern himself with listening to the community too much. Design by a commitee of thousands is guaranteed to be terribad.

 

[Zeliard]

I don't think anyone will have a problem with isometric. And whoever does will be shouted down.

 

[Clydefrog]

Yeah, isometric would be my #1 choice as well. So far, so good.

 

[WorstUsernameEver]

I hope he doesn't concern himself with listening to the community too much. Design by a commitee of thousands is guaranteed to be terribad.

There's a fineline. It's not like he's asking the community on the minutiae, he's asking the people who want the game what type of game they want. At least that's the vibe I'm getting from how they've interacted so far and his RPS interview.

 

[Sentenza]

I don't think anyone will have a problem with isometric. And whoever does will be shouted down.

Well, I've spotted at leas t a couple of very vocal guys ranting cause "isometric would be too Fallout" and "Wasteland used a top down view". Luckily their opinion doesn't seem to be very popular, cause I find it shockingly naive.

I hope he doesn't concern himself with listening to the community too much. Design by a commitee of thousands is guaranteed to be terribad.

Generally speaking I agree. Especially considering how there are a lot of awful suggestions flying around.
There's even people asking for pixelated graphics just for the sake of nostalgia.

 

[Pachterballs]

You will be able to go with an existing group of Desert Rangers or make your own customized mix. And of course NPCs will join along the way.

You will most definitely get to create your entire party like Wasteland 1 or like Icewind Dale did (as an example).

It's possible to make the initial funding in the first 48 hours at this rate! There are sure smiling faces at work today.

Extra money will be balanced with extra content and other platforms but making the game better is priority #1.

And don't worry the game will be violent....edgier the better.


We are leaning towards isometric but we want to show some screens in our forum for fan feedback. You guys are my new boss after all.

I do think that he's trying to allow fans dialogue but the last point; I'm a bit worried about.

 

[duckroll]

I do think that he's trying to allow fans dialogue but the last point; I'm a bit worried about.

What exactly is there to be worried about? Wasteland and Fallout are very violent games.

 

[Power Glove]

What exactly is there to be worried about? Wasteland and Fallout are very violent games.

You could kill children for fucks sake! How much edgier can it get?

 

[MightyHedgehog]

As long as they balance random battles with the wonkiness of hex pathing... If they ditch random battles in locations to make it fit, it will suck so fucking bad because that element of ever-possible danger, even in a 'safe' area with friendlies, is what makes the experience fun and pressures you to think before acting more often.

 

[duckroll]

As long as they balance random battles with the wonkiness of hex pathing... If they ditch random battles in locations to make it fit, it will suck so fucking bad because that element of ever-possible danger, even in a 'safe' area with friendlies, is what makes the experience fun and pressures you to think before acting more often.

Or they could do what Fallout does, since they're already planning on making the game Fallout-style, and have a world map with random encounters, and area maps with fixed (possible) enemies.

 

[Falxix]

A little apprehensive based on his inXile history, but tossed in 50 anyway based on his Interplay history. Starved for games like this and I love feelies, so 50 bucks well spent. Live the dream, Brian.

 

[Pachterballs]

um, I added a point and forgot to move it up. I was referring to the design by committee thing.

sweet delicious violence I have no issues with.



being project of the day on KS isn't hurting the KS movement for W2.

 

[Sentenza]

As long as they balance random battles with the wonkiness of hex pathing.

Better yet, they should just ditch grid based combat and use a vector based system like ToEE/Silent Storm.

Actually, I've also open a public suggestion about this. If by any chance you agree you can vote it here:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=1f7176

 

[Ignis Fatuus]

Oh damn, he was involved in Freespace?

Alright, take my money.

 

[duckroll]

um, I added a point and forgot to move it up. I was referring to the design by committee thing.

sweet delicious violence I have no issues with.

Oh, lol. Yeah that makes much more sense.

Well, I'm against design by committee, and I would be much more concerned if they're getting fans to submit character suggestions or map ideas, etc. But that doesn't look to be the case. Instead, fans here simply take the role that a publisher normally would, and get to comment and give feedback on more general ideas and direction they're planning on taking.

Not completely ideal, and I definitely would rather have a very talented developer I have total faith in to say "we know what we're doing, fund us and you will get kickass shit", but inXile is kinda an iffy dev, but Fargo seems very passionate about this, so I don't think it's all bad.

 

[Emitan]

Better yet, they should just ditch grid based combat and use a vector based system like ToEE/Silent Storm.

Actually, I've also open a public suggestion about this. If by any chance you agree you can vote it here:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=1f7176

By coincidence I played ToEE for the first time yesterday and really liked it's vector system.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Or they could do what Fallout does, since they're already planning on making the game Fallout-style, and have a world map with random encounters, and area maps with fixed (possible) enemies.

Kinda hoping they go with this style versus random battles. There's a cohesiveness to towns and dungeons when you can see the enemy and engage them on the same map. But I'm thinking, reading about splitting parties, is that they'll be going with windowed random encounters if they want to stay faithful to Wasteland.

 

[Pachterballs]

Better yet, they should just ditch grid based combat and use a vector based system like ToEE/Silent Storm.

Actually, I've also open a public suggestion about this. If by any chance you agree you can vote it here:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=1f7176

He's set up a forum on inxile somewhere. I don't have a link handy.

 

[Emitan]

Better yet, they should just ditch grid based combat and use a vector based system like ToEE/Silent Storm.

Actually, I've also open a public suggestion about this. If by any chance you agree you can vote it here:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=1f7176

He's set up a forum on inxile somewhere. I don't have a link handy.

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/index.php

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Or they could do what Fallout does, since they're already planning on making the game Fallout-style, and have a world map with random encounters, and area maps with fixed (possible) enemies.

Man, I hope not. Random battles and fixed enemies (as well as potential ones) in the same locations were already part of Wasteland's offerings, but I really don't want to lose the constant sense of pressure which makes 'safe' areas feel different and, of course, safe. If they dilute essential elements of Wasteland's formula, it will cease to be Wasteland. I'm sure a balance can be found, but it seems very easy to fuck up and rationalize shit to accommodate accessibility in a sequel that only compromises the experience unique to the original.

 

[Polk]

Oh damn, he was involved in Freespace?

Was he? Other then Interplay was publisher of Freespace, and Fargo founded Interplay.

 

[Fjordson]

Wow. Another morning waking up to a huge jump. Crazy!

Or they could do what Fallout does, since they're already planning on making the game Fallout-style, and have a world map with random encounters, and area maps with fixed (possible) enemies.

Yeah, that sounds good to me.

At the end of the day, I'll play whatever Fargo and co. end up doing. His passion is giving me a lot of faith in this.

 

[duckroll]

Man, I hope not. Random battles and fixed enemies (as well as potential ones) in the same locations were already part of Wasteland's offerings, but I really don't want to lose the constant sense of pressure which makes 'safe' areas feel different and, of course, safe. If they dilute essential elements of Wasteland's formula, it will cease to be Wasteland. I'm sure a balance can be found, but it seems very easy to fuck up and rationalize shit to accommodate accessibility in a sequel that only compromises the experience unique to the original.

I actually agree with your points a lot. I was talking to Minsc about this way before we had fixed details, and I argued that Wasteland is not Fallout, and should remain unique in its own way instead of just being a Fallout 1/2 clone with Wasteland 2 as the title. Unfortunately, the more Fargo talks about the game, the more it seems likely that he intends to borrow heavily from Fallout 1/2 in terms of presentation and formula.

I'm glad they're still keeping the creation of an entire party, and it being a party based system. That is one element that definitely keeps it Wasteland. Hopefully they retain a lot more.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Better yet, they should just ditch grid based combat and use a vector based system like ToEE/Silent Storm.

Actually, I've also open a public suggestion about this. If by any chance you agree you can vote it here:
http://www.google.com/moderator/#8/e=1f7176

I like that system, but the entire existing setup would have to be overhauled to fit in as a sequel. I wonder if it doesn't seem too fine-grained to produce a more clearly-delineated sense of tactical options, at least, to me. Besides, that system would automatically disqualify itself as an old school RPG, in my mind.

 

[Zeliard]

Isometric is likely going to be their way of "modernizing" it in the 90s style. They keep name-dropping Fallout because it's a much bigger name and it helps bring in the monies but I think they'll keep a lot of what made Wasteland what it was.

 

[Sentenza]

He's set up a forum on inxile somewhere. I don't have a link handy.

Well, that's actually *their* official Google Moderator to keep popularity of suggestions in check, by the way:

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=67

Wow, we've had these forums up for less than a day and the responses are incredible! We are afraid so many great ideas might get lost among the posts and discussions, so we've setup a Google Moderator site to allow you to offer up your suggestions. The great thing about Google Moderator, if you aren't familiar with it, is it allows the community to submit ideas and vote them up or down so we know which ones are the most important to you.

We'll still use these forums to float ideas and build a dialog, of course. We've setup Google Moderator to duplicate the topics here, please place your ideas in the proper sections. By all means, when you have an idea and discuss it, link to it in your posts so people can go to Google Moderator and vote on it if they like it.

Please add in your ideas for Wasteland 2 and vote on them here:

http://www.google.com/moderator/#16/e=1f7176

Thanks for being a part of Wasteland 2 development!

Besides, that system would automatically disqualify itself as an old school RPG, in my mind.

Uhm, what? Why?
What I miss about old school RPGs are the mechanics and the depth, not the archaic tech they used.

 

[DaBuddaDa]

It's been argued into the ground in other places, but I'm on the side that says pure overhead camera was a result of technical limitations, and that isometric is better in every conceivable way.

 

[bengraven]

I'm not really sure of the legality of it. EviLore already deleted one post that was linking to the game, so I wouldn't really encourage people to go download it.

Ah, ouch, okay that deleted post may have been where I got the idea from.

Disregard what I said then.

 

[duckroll]

I really wish Fargo gives better updates to the project, especially since it looks like it's going to get funded for sure. I think his pitch is pretty shit to honest. Since Wasteland 2 is something that he has already worked on before with Jason Anderson in the past, even though it didn't get accepted by any publisher, there should be design elements he can share and talk about to give us a better idea of what to expect - and to give feedback on.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

I actually agree with your points a lot. I was talking to Minsc about this way before we had fixed details, and I argued that Wasteland is not Fallout, and should remain unique in its own way instead of just being a Fallout 1/2 clone with Wasteland 2 as the title. Unfortunately, the more Fargo talks about the game, the more it seems likely that he intends to borrow heavily from Fallout 1/2 in terms of presentation and formula.

I'm glad they're still keeping the creation of an entire party, and it being a party based system. That is one element that definitely keeps it Wasteland. Hopefully they retain a lot more.

Yeah, I seriously worry that this may just turn out to be chance to resurrect Van Buren in Wasteland's skin.

 

[bengraven]

I actually agree with your points a lot. I was talking to Minsc about this way before we had fixed details, and I argued that Wasteland is not Fallout, and should remain unique in its own way instead of just being a Fallout 1/2 clone with Wasteland 2 as the title. Unfortunately, the more Fargo talks about the game, the more it seems likely that he intends to borrow heavily from Fallout 1/2 in terms of presentation and formula.

I'm glad they're still keeping the creation of an entire party, and it being a party based system. That is one element that definitely keeps it Wasteland. Hopefully they retain a lot more.

You don't get this nearly enough, period, these days. It will be interesting if modern gamers who didn't grow up on those old school RPGs (admittingly, like myself) will like a system like this.

I really wish Fargo gives better updates to the project, especially since it looks like it's going to get funded for sure. I think his pitch is pretty shit to honest. Since Wasteland 2 is something that he has already worked on before with Jason Anderson in the past, even though it didn't get accepted by any publisher, there should be design elements he can share and talk about to give us a better idea of what to expect - and to give feedback on.

Agreed and that's one reason I'm hesitating paying right away. Someone said earlier that this game has been in preproduction for a year. You'd think Fargo would have released some concept art or stills or video to help sell this, especially to classic gamers.

 

[Emitan]

http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1550#p1550

A post discussing WL2 vs Fallout 4

I agree with you in that Wasteland 2 needs to distinguish itself from the Fallout series. I believe that the most important way to do this is thematically, not by game mechanics, but at the same time, it's been 30 years, and there have been a lot of developments in gaming since then that just make gaming more fun, and I'm hoping that InXile will be able to make a game that "feels" like Wasteland, but isn't shackled to the original where the original had poor design, or design that was just limited by what was possible at the time.

As examples, there's no way that I would want to play a new game with Wasteland's combat system, where you select from a limited number of actions and read scrolling text to see what happens. It isn't particularly engaging when your main strategic decision is "do I go burst, or full auto?" I think isometric is a good idea because that seems to be the best way to do team-based tactical combat (a la Baldur's Gate or Fallout Tactics), but I also would like to see animated character portraits. On a different thread, someone suggested using animated portraits to show whose turn it was in combat, which I think is a great way to update the original.

There's a at least one thread, maybe more, urging the developers to use a lot of text, both for dialogue and description of the environment, which is great, but I don't see any reason to go back to using a paragraph book (which was just a combination of an attempt at early DRM and a way to limit the size of games as much as possible). I think that pushing for antiquated mechanics like a paragraph book is a problem because while it'd have kitsch value for players who played games 25 years ago, it doesn't add anything else to the experience, and I think it'd be a turn-off to a huge chunk of potential players. Just because WL2 is going to be a somewhat niche game doesn't mean that it can't also aim to be relatively popular and successful (and I hope is relatively popular and successful so that more companies see that making things like it is still viable).

I think maybe if you do more than skim the forum, and if you go in with the expectation that everyone who is writing here really wants to see WL2 developed into a game that they'll enjoy, as opposed to just being bent out of shape about the way one game was handled, or as opposed to just hoping to see a retread of one game or another, you'll see that there's a lot of debate, and a lot of give-and-take over what might make WL2 the best possible old school RPG.

 

[Decado]

Yeah, I seriously worry that this may just turn out to be chance to resurrect Van Buren in Wasteland's skin.

I can't say I mind that, particularly since it will be a turn-based Van Buren

 

[i-Lo]

I just saw the video and the parody was very well done. More than that I found it inspiring. If it turns out to be a success perhaps we can be looking for more future projects partially or fully funded by consumers. That'll be one hell of a paradigm shift.

Learning about the history, it's surprising to learn that the side project gained such traction over the years to become a huge franchise, while Wasteland lay quiet.

Does anyone know whether the final product would end up looking more like Fallout 2 or Fallout Tactics with regards to art style, gameplay style and camera angle (isometric)?

 

[Zeliard]

I just saw the video and the parody was very well done. More than that I found it inspiring. If it turns out to be a success perhaps we can be looking for more future projects partially or fully funded by consumers. That'll be one hell of a paradigm shift.

Learning about the history, it's surprising to learn that the side project gained such traction over the years to become a huge franchise, while Wasteland lay quiet.

Does anyone know whether the final product would end up looking more like Fallout 2 or Fallout Tactics with regards to art style, gameplay style and camera angle (isometric)?

They seem to be leaning iso but beyond that we don't have any concrete info yet.

 

[i-Lo]

They seem to be leaning iso but beyond that we don't have any concrete info yet.

Thanks.

 

[Joseph Merrick]

There's even people asking for pixelated graphics just for the sake of nostalgia.

hehe. I definitely want a proper high resolution modern art style. but I get the point behind this and I agree with it, it's not simply nostalgia. in my version the map view should definitely be a rough overview. while the text window will always be the detail view. just have to put the camera further away than it is in games like fallout or baldur's gate etc. so the lack of details in the graphics comes naturally. )

 

[Bill Murray]

I hope they don't make it too Fallout-ey. We already had Fallout 1+2. I want Wasteland 2.

 

[Pachterballs]

I really wish Fargo gives better updates to the project, especially since it looks like it's going to get funded for sure. I think his pitch is pretty shit to honest. Since Wasteland 2 is something that he has already worked on before with Jason Anderson in the past, even though it didn't get accepted by any publisher, there should be design elements he can share and talk about to give us a better idea of what to expect - and to give feedback on.

I agree with this. But then how much do you really want them to ply in its infancy. DFA doesn't really even show very much.

All we can say is WOW! We are overwhelmed and humbled by the support for this project, and we can't believe how fast we were able to get to 13,000 backers.

First of all, we wanted to say thank you for getting involved in the project. Your support has been faster and bigger than we ever expected.

Secondly, we wanted to let you know that we really appreciate the efforts you have made to help expand the support by helping to spread the word. All of our backers come from either the press we generate or through social media from all your enthusiastic posts to Facebook and Twitter about this project. With your continued help, we know we can extend the reach of this project and get thousands more people to become backers. Remember, every single nickel we raise through Kickstarter goes into building the product.

We have made some announcements about what we will do if we reach a couple of benchmarks above our funding goal, but that is just the beginning. We wanted to tell all our backers that if we make it to goals even higher, that every single person who plays the game will see the benefits. Without big-publisher marketing and PR budgets, the best chance we have for success is by getting our 13,000 backers to do everything they can to help spread the word. The more this project goes viral, the bigger and better the final product will be. Post it! Tweet it! Email it! We need your continued help to reach our goals!

Lastly, I wanted to invite all of you to follow Brian Fargo on Twitter @BrianFargo. Brian posts daily about Wasteland 2 as well as re-tweeting interesting articles that are being written about us during this process. It is a great way to stay up on the latest and greatest in the world of inXile, and it makes it easy for us to share information with you.

Thanks for your continued support, remember to keep checking the Kickstarter page for updates, and long live Wasteland!

 

[duckroll]

I agree with this. But then how much do you really want them to ply in its infancy. DFA doesn't really even show very much.

DFA is a loose concept though. It has no title, no theme, no characters, etc, because the game concept doesn't exist until it is funded. You're buying into a new 2D adventure game developed by Double Fine.

This is different. This is Wasteland 2 by inXile, which already had pre-production work done when they tried to pitch it to publishers in the past. I think the least they could do would be to show that pitch in a detailed form. Maybe not right now or today, but as the month goes by, I really hope they at least share what they have planned with us so we get a better idea of what they want to make. That could also help motivate people to put more money into the project if it is convincing enough and seems like something worth putting more funding into.

 

[Zeliard]

DFA is a loose concept though. It has no title, no theme, no characters, etc, because the game concept doesn't exist until it is funded. You're buying into a new 2D adventure game developed by Double Fine.

This is different. This is Wasteland 2 by inXile, which already had pre-production work done when they tried to pitch it to publishers in the past. I think the least they could do would be to show that pitch in a detailed form. Maybe not right now or today, but as the month goes by, I really hope they at least share what they have planned with us so we get a better idea of what they want to make. That could also help motivate people to put more money into the project if it is convincing enough and seems like something worth putting more funding into.

I feel like they're taking a huge amount of influence from Double Fine. Understandable since DF basically pioneered Kickstarter funding, but I feel like inXile is also taking influence by playing things close to the vest, since DFA still remains largely a mystery. I think they want to keep that same allure of mystery, though I agree in this case when they have stuff to reveal, they probably should.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Uhm, what? Why?
What I miss about old school RPGs are the mechanics and the depth, not the archaic tech they used.

I wouldn't call grid-based maps and movement archaic tech, just a design choice. After all, there were plenty of hex games before and after WL1 on the same platforms. A vector system, while awesome for CQC/shorter-range fights (IMO) where its flexibility is felt most strongly, never existed in old school RPGs and cannot replicate some important effects that those more rigid systems brought to the experience, one of which is the strengthening of options by limiting the possibilities to produce more usable and reliable outcomes that the player can better feel out and master. A hex system would be fine, I think, with some alterations and special rules.

hehe. I definitely want a proper high resolution modern art style. but I get the point behind this and I agree with it, it's not simply nostalgia. in my version the map view should definitely be a rough overview. while the text window will always be the detail view. just have to put the camera further away than it is in games like fallout or baldur's gate etc. so the lack of details in the graphics comes naturally. )

Absolutely right on about the choice in what and how detail is shared with the player. Purposely putting a ceiling on certain kinds of feedback puts more emphasis and importance on others, which leads a different experience. With WL1, it was definitely the text that outlined the world for your imagination to finish.

 

[superdeluxe]

Fargo also tweeted that Liz danforth, another member of original team is also back