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[PeteBull]

I mean... anyone who bought a GTX1080ti in 2017 still has a mostly more powerful GPU than either console...

MSRP in 2017 $699

It has 11 gigs of vram even back then, huge advantage vs similary fast cards u can buy now but who only got 8gigs, in terms of power i think many multiplatform games will look bit better on ps5/xsx tho, especially as the generation progress, early on tho, especially with crossgen games, gtx 1080ti was on pair or sometimes even above current gen consoles.
https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/geforce-gtx-1080-ti.c2877 thats 1080ti specs btw.

Edit: As u can see biggest culprit of too lil vram is 42% faster recently launched rtx 4060ti, at 400$ msrp, its terrible value, ofc soon we gonna get 16gigs variant launched, but thats 500$ msrp so again- terrible value for new product =/

 

[Ivory Samoan]

Royals don't wait for games.

This was well played, good sir.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I was watching my boy stream FF16 because I was trying to make a decision whether to go out and get a PS5 now. Man I really wanna play, but I don't know if I wanna play it at this quality. I'm hoping the itch just goes away and I can forget about this. The motion blur is INTENSE and I hate motion blur. The 30 FPS is tolerable, but man...resolution drops in performance mode seem pretty significant from what I saw on the stream. It could have been more the fact that I was watching a Stream as opposed to seeing it in person, but man I don't think it could be just that.

FF16 feels BAD to play right now on Ps5. The motion blur + camera (it auto zooms in and out) in Fidelity mode makes me feel queasy every time I play.

The performance mode looks like crap its so low res and the fps isn't solid

It's pretty disappointing. I'm on an oled. On an LCD I think I could tolerate it better.

 

[ergem]

Final Fantasy has to have started development as a PS4 title. (I think in fact it was).

There’s still haven’t been any game being developed from the ground up for PS5 (or Series X).

I hate that people think that 60fps 4K is everything in gaming. It is not! You are the minority. The 98% rest of us don’t need a pro console.

Also, just look around! Console prices went up (a first ever), stock is barely recovering, games are still cross-gen three years in! Why would there be a PRO console?

This is the worst generation ever because it hasn’t had any evolution. It’s like it’s stuck in its first year (blame covid, development times and live service game fixation for that).

What do you lose if there is a pro console? You don’t care for ray tracing or solid 60fps? That’s fine, as probably 90% of gamers are. But why oppose the idea of Sony or MS releasing a pro console when it’s not for you. How are you affected by this?

 

[ergem]

When you see something like Ryse and The Order: 1886 working on 2013 hardware (that was already old) you know we don't need pro consoles. We need more competent devs.

Why not both gif

 

[Kataploom]

We have like 6 years begging for Pro Switch, seems like pro consoles beggers family grew up.

I just opted to stay PC though, whenever I think on getting a console reality hits me with the compromises I'd be getting with them. I'll still eventually get PS5 for generations of PS exclusives I haven't played, but for everything else PC is just on its own league.

 

[IAmRei]

based on the games i often play, i don't need new pro.
because, i think the gap between next gen and old gen graphic, i think it's still not too far. maybe one or two years later on.

 

[RCU005]

What do you lose if there is a pro console? You don’t care for ray tracing or solid 60fps? That’s fine, as probably 90% of gamers are. But why oppose the idea of Sony or MS releasing a pro console when it’s not for you. How are you affected by this?

We all lose right now. The least we need is devs focusing on optimizing for more consoles. Like I said, there hasn’t even been ONE game developed for this gen for the ground up, so that basically makes a Pro version unnecessary in the first place.

Do you really believe that a Pro console will have good Ray Tracing? That’s not for this gen at all. It might get solid 60fps and that’s it, and you are willing to buy a whole console just for that?

Also, how much would it cost? Consoles right now are $500-$550.

Let’s be real! Whether it’s good or bad or people agree or not, it just doesn’t make sense this gen and people asking for 60fps need to understand that it’s a tiny minority. We all like that our games are optimized and have good performance, but only a tiny fraction actually care about frames and specific things like that.

 

[ergem]

Do you really believe that a Pro console will have good Ray Tracing? That’s not for this gen at all. It might get solid 60fps and that’s it, and you are willing to buy a whole console just for that?

Why do you care if I’m willing to pay for a pro console for a proper 60fps with higher resolution? What do you lose in return?

 

[Klosshufvud]

We all lose right now. The least we need is devs focusing on optimizing for more consoles. Like I said, there hasn’t even been ONE game developed for this gen for the ground up, so that basically makes a Pro version unnecessary in the first place.

Do you really believe that a Pro console will have good Ray Tracing? That’s not for this gen at all. It might get solid 60fps and that’s it, and you are willing to buy a whole console just for that?

Also, how much would it cost? Consoles right now are $500-$550.

Let’s be real! Whether it’s good or bad or people agree or not, it just doesn’t make sense this gen and people asking for 60fps need to understand that it’s a tiny minority. We all like that our games are optimized and have good performance, but only a tiny fraction actually care about frames and specific things like that.

The world's top selling games are 60 fps. Every poll ever shows people favoring performance modes. Devs themselves generally brag about 60 fps whenever they can. Devs are just falling back to old habits. And now it's even worse since they just let checkerboard upscaling carry their asses. There is no sense of design based on limitation anymore.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I think the industry has a lot of gamers chasing a never-ending pursuit over specs instead of talent, artistry, and game design. Sure, specs are important, but 4K60FPS won't save a bad game.

Honestly just get a PC if you need the latest and greatest. If you are patient enough, you have access to both PS and Xbox libraries.

I won't tell people how to spend their money, but I think there are more important things to fix with the current gen games we have now like interactivity and just having new experiences in general. 30 FPS has mostly been a thing with "next gen" games. PS4/Xbox One only games last generation also had games sub-1080P and ran at 30 FPS. Next it will be 120 FPS or best and then 8K or bust. Graphic cards are getting more and more expensive. Just feels like a waste.

The whole idea of a Pro is to avoid having to go to 1080p/30 fps

These are miserable specs to run a game today on a modern tv particularly Oled

Ff16 is a great example. It looks amazing but playing at 30 fps with this amount of motion blur sucks

I don't think it's a justification saying "well last gen games ran at 1080p/30 so thats something we should be ready to accept"

 

[Panajev2001a]

We all lose right now. The least we need is devs focusing on optimizing for more consoles. Like I said, there hasn’t even been ONE game developed for this gen for the ground up, so that basically makes a Pro version unnecessary in the first place.

Do you really believe that a Pro console will have good Ray Tracing? That’s not for this gen at all. It might get solid 60fps and that’s it, and you are willing to buy a whole console just for that?

Also, how much would it cost? Consoles right now are $500-$550.

Let’s be real! Whether it’s good or bad or people agree or not, it just doesn’t make sense this gen and people asking for 60fps need to understand that it’s a tiny minority. We all like that our games are optimized and have good performance, but only a tiny fraction actually care about frames and specific things like that.

People do not know what they want and this is clear that the reality is that Pro consoles are less and less practical and yet people wish for them more and more (not accepting it would make a bad problem worse…).
There is literally nothing supporting how releasing HW more frequently is a good thing for the consoles market and yet…

 

[chromatic9]

The whole idea of a Pro is to avoid having to go to 1080p/30 fps

These are miserable specs to run a game today on a modern tv particularly Oled

Ff16 is a great example. It looks amazing but playing at 30 fps with this amount of motion blur sucks

I don't think it's a justification saying "well last gen games ran at 1080p/30 so thats something we should be ready to accept"

What is it about oled that makes 30fps particularly bad? I've seen this posted a lot now. Is it how it handles motion resolution?

I have a Sony X900F, I mean LED are not know for good motion either but is there some other aspect about oled that is really off-putting?

 

[Elysium44]

Why do you care if I’m willing to pay for a pro console for a proper 60fps with higher resolution? What do you lose in return?

We'll lose performance on our older consoles versus what we would have got. I mean to say, a lot of games with performance issues is down to developers not doing the work to optimise it better or whatever. The moment the 'Pro' console comes out, these developers will be given an easy out to continue being lazy. We should be demanding they do better now, not make excuses for them (oh 30fps is fine, 40fps in performance mode is fine, the hardware is just too weak guys, poor developers, have sympathy for them!)

This whole gen especially on Xbox is terrible, in three years the needle has hardly moved past what the last gen did. Even though the consoles are dramatically more powerful. The existing hardware is not being exploited. The idea we should let developers brute force their lazy programming with an even faster console already is absurd imo.

 

[custardbun01]

We’ve barely had a “next gen”, or this gen, game. Everything has been a 4k 60 ps4 game. There is no way, 3 years in, either the PS5 or X is juiced out. Sony’s first parties haven’t even made a dedicated PS5 game except Ratchet which nobody really wants to play.

 

[hlm666]

What is it about oled that makes 30fps particularly bad? I've seen this posted a lot now. Is it how it handles motion resolution?

I have a Sony X900F, I mean LED are not know for good motion either but is there some other aspect about oled that is really off-putting?

oleds don't suffer from the inherit motion blur lcds do, so turning the games motion blur off on an lcd wont result in the jarring judder you see on an oled at 30fps without motion blur. Also shit motion blur on an oled is easier to see because it's not being covered by the lcd motion blur ontop.

 

[Celcius]

We’ve barely had a “next gen”, or this gen, game. Everything has been a 4k 60 ps4 game. There is no way, 3 years in, either the PS5 or X is juiced out. Sony’s first parties haven’t even made a dedicated PS5 game except Ratchet which nobody really wants to play.

I feel like it’s a bit immature to say nobody wants to play rachet. They’re porting it to PC next so it must be selling well. I say this as someone who has never even played the franchise.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

People do not know what they want and this is clear that the reality is that Pro consoles are less and less practical and yet people wish for them more and more (not accepting it would make a bad problem worse…).
There is literally nothing supporting how releasing HW more frequently is a good thing for the consoles market and yet…

People do not know what they want and this is clear that the reality is that Pro consoles are less and less practical and yet people wish for them more and more (not accepting it would make a bad problem worse…).
There is literally nothing supporting how releasing HW more frequently is a good thing for the consoles market and yet…

 

[jufonuk]

I’m a switch owner so

just make a sequel, for the switch I mean.

 

[SScorpio]

The world's top selling games are 60 fps. Every poll ever shows people favoring performance modes. Devs themselves generally brag about 60 fps whenever they can. Devs are just falling back to old habits. And now it's even worse since they just let checkerboard upscaling carry their asses. There is no sense of design based on limitation anymore.

Maybe polls asked in fan forums, that consist of die-hard players.

Back in the PS3 days, Insomniac polled people on 30fps with better visuals vs 60fps which was toned down. People overwhelmingly choose 30fps with better-looking graphics.

It's odd seeing the frame-rate obsessed people now on consoles complaining for more power. While on PC, the Steam Deck is the latest hotness with people sharing how to get locked 30/40 at lower detail settings.

 

[cart00nero]

No.

 

[Jigsaah]

There's some good news to come out of this though. The need for Pro console means we finally are hitting "next gen" games in stride. FF16, Cyberpunk, Ratchet and Clank, Demon's Souls, Starfield...all seem to be pushing the boundaries.

 

[DryvBy]

No we don't. There's hardly anything on our current systems.

 

[HTK]

Of course the Pro consoles are needed if the projections of PS6 are 2028 are true.

Even in the current state of affairs: Most single player open world games can't run with all of quality at 60FPS, hell there are games that struggle to hit 60FPS consistently that are not open world. Majority of the 4k (Upscaled) / 120FPS games cannot maintain solid 120FPS constantly dipping into 90FPS - 120FPS range along with sacrificing quality settings. You can't get descent ray tracing on the modern consoles, something always has to be sacrificed.

Pro consoles are planned well ahead, you may talk about the current state of affairs but the Pro consoles are meant to drive the platform from 2024 through 2028 which will be well needed. Even though there haven't been a ton of games to push the current hardware the ones that have could have benefited from a Pro console easily.

Also, this whole argument we don't want a pro because of optimization blah blah blah, this is nonsense. Bad devs will always be bad devs for starters. Additionally, Pro consoles will account for 20% of the population if not less. So its still in the best interest to build/optimized games for the base PS5 and then enhance them additionally for the Pro. PS5 base will always have the bigger pool of the population because of it's install base and going forward it's price point vs. the Pro.

• I want single player games to run natively at 4K at 60FPS with all the quality and ray tracing.
• I want multiplayer games to run natively at 4k (not upscaled) at 120FPS with high quality settings no ray tracing.

Neither of these 2 points above can be accomplished with current hardware.

 

[hyperbertha]

I'm just wondering where we'd be without fsr.

 

[hyperbertha]

That doesnt mean an rtx 3070 paired with a 5700x doesnt perform way better than a ps5

Rtx 3070 in 2023 is something of a joke. It's better than a ps5, but the horrible state of pc ports means you won't see much gains anyway. Not to mention far stronger gpus are already available in the market.

 

[MMaRsu]

Rtx 3070 in 2023 is something of a joke. It's better than a ps5, but the horrible state of pc ports means you won't see much gains anyway. Not to mention far stronger gpus are already available in the market.

My 3070 is running all games I throw at it better than PS5 so im not too worried.

 

[Madserb2023]

We don't need a pro console and Nintendo has shown this with recent releases. I was playing Metroid Prime Remaster and couldn't believe that something like this was possible on mobile hardware from 2015 and it's an underclocked version at that. This is what happens when a developer gets really good at understanding fixed hardware. However that doesn't seem to be happening anymore with most developers. Tears of the Kingdom is running on a system that in handheld mode is not even 250gf. These next gen systems are close to 60 times the power. An equivalent game on theses system would make the Matrix demo look poor. I think we need a pro console because the only way we will get better graphics is to throw more power at it because that's the state of the industry.

 

[grfunkulus]

Rtx 3070 in 2023 is something of a joke. It's better than a ps5, but the horrible state of pc ports means you won't see much gains anyway. Not to mention far stronger gpus are already available in the market.

What does that have to do with anything? A couple of bad PC ports doesn't all of a sudden devalue a mid-high end GPU...until recently, the most common GPU on Steam was the 1060. You think the majority of PC devs are disregarding all cards that are roughly ps4 pro/xbox one x power level and below because a few insanely overpriced cards exist?

 

[ProtoByte]

You’re saying that Square Enix has never shown to be technically proficient?
What about Capcom and others as well?

No, I'm saying that Creative Business Unit 3 has never shown out to be technically proficient, just like Luminous Studios. Square Enix is not a monolith.

 

[ProtoByte]

Runs and looks perfect in 30fps mode. Absolutely no complaints here.

You have no complaints about that piss poor dynamic resolution?

Of course the performance 60 mode runs bad because it’s half cooked shit. If they really cared about performance mode, I am sure they could do solid 60 on current ps5 with enough optimisation.
They just half assed 60 to shut up 60fps warriors from not buying the game.

The why doesn't really matter. This game has had more than enough time in the oven, and is not blowing anything out of the water graphically. It should not be releasing in a state where the frame rate mode is as bizarre as it is.

 

[rofif]

You have no complaints about that piss poor dynamic resolution?


The why doesn't really matter. This game has had more than enough time in the oven, and is not blowing anything out of the water graphically. It should not be releasing in a state where the frame rate mode is as bizarre as it is.

Dynamic resolution is not noticeable in quality mode. I am going to continue praise the graphics of this game and how quality mode is worthy of 30fps. I complained about poor performance mode is too.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 30fps mode in ff16. Neither fps or resolution. The game is not keeping the prologue quality all the time of course. It often falls in flat and stiff mmo talking heads quality. But in 80% of main story quests, it delivers some of best graphics we’ve ever seen. Shame it feels like ff14 other times.

But play titan boss fight and come back complaining it’s not amazing looking.

 

[ProtoByte]

Dynamic resolution is not noticeable in quality mode. I am going to continue praise the graphics of this game and how quality mode is worthy of 30fps. I complained about poor performance mode is too.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 30fps mode in ff16. Neither fps or resolution. The game is not keeping the prologue quality all the time of course. It often falls in flat and stiff mmo talking heads quality. But in 80% of main story quests, it delivers some of best graphics we’ve ever seen. Shame it feels like ff14 other times.

But play titan boss fight and come back complaining it’s not amazing looking.

It's not groundbreaking compared to other games that run at way higher resolutions, including native and locked 4K, no.

 

[lh032]

Imagine PS5 PRO is alot more powerful than PS5, dev either will make games run at 60fps with slightly higher settings, or they just implement RT + even higher settings and games still runs at 30fps.

Have to depend on their vision.

 

[squidilix]

Final Fantasy 16 just came out and it can run as low as 720p or 1080p

aaaa... STFU

 

[Celcius]

aaaa... STFU

Care to contribute anything meaningful to the discussion?

 

[OverHeat]

aaaa... STFU

GTFO

 

[squidilix]

Yes,

Wich pictures is 720p native, 720p FSR 2.2 (upscaled to 1440p) and 1440p native

People crying about resolution and dont knowing what and how about reconstruction works is very very tire to read.

FF16 don't fking run at 720p/1080p native.

 

[Mr Reasonable]

Yes,

Wich pictures is 720p native, 720p FSR 2.2 (upscaled to 1440p) and 1440p native

People crying about resolution and dont knowing what and how about reconstruction works is very very tire to read.

FF16 don't fking run at 720p/1080p native.

I don't care but is it

Best
Worst
Mid

?

I assume

1440p
720p
Upscale

?

 

[diunxx]

Or just make games that can run at at least 1080p, 60 fps on consoles?

 

[damidu]

yeah get them ready for end of 2024
they say new gen starts at 2028
doesn’t seem possible to get there comfortably with these rdns2 weaklings.

also never not funny to read “gen hasn’t started” folks while we are already down to “30fps only” first party territory.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

 

[Jimmy_liv]

I'd buy one...or two.

 

[Wooxsvan]

i mean at this point if we dont my PC will be getting all future purchases. i just dont want to play at 30 in most titles anymore. ps5 has been great the last few years and iv no interest in going back to 30.

 

[JimRyanGOAT]

Sony needs to drop two Pro Models,

One slightly stronger than the PS5 for 699 USD

Then a 999 USD Pro Elite model stronger than any 3000 dollar PC so I can shit-talk PC gamers for the rest of my life for losing the Only W they ever had.

On a serious note though, I wouldn't mind a Pro Console. Its just an extra option, it does nothing. You say it gives developers leeway as if they aren't already trying to brute force their way through optimization because of poor management and unrealistic deadlines.

Might as well give us that option

 

[OverHeat]

Sony needs to drop two Pro Models,

One slightly stronger than the PS5 for 699 USD

Then a 999 USD Pro Console Stronger than Any 5K PC so I can shit-talk PC gamers for the rest of my life for losing the Only W they ever had

On a serious note though, I wouldn't mind a Pro Console. Its just an extra option, it does nothing. You say it gives developers leeway as if they aren't already trying to brute force their way through optimization because of poor management and unrealistic deadlines.

Might as well give us that option

Keep dreaming bud.

 

[SScorpio]

i mean at this point if we dont my PC will be getting all future purchases. i just dont want to play at 30 in most titles anymore. ps5 has been great the last few years and iv no interest in going back to 30.

You've been playing games targeting the PS4 for the past few years. Just catch up on anything you missed, and play PS5 games on the PS6 in the future for the same experience.

 

[TheAmazingSpiderMan]

What happened? I’ve been told about superior architecture, magical SSD powers, secret sauce and eating monsters for breakfast?

The usual armchair experts who pretend like they know what they’re talking about. 2020 next gen console thread we were hearing praise about these consoles etc. Clearly the folks talk out their rear most the time.

 

[ergem]

We'll lose performance on our older consoles versus what we would have got. I mean to say, a lot of games with performance issues is down to developers not doing the work to optimise it better or whatever. The moment the 'Pro' console comes out, these developers will be given an easy out to continue being lazy. We should be demanding they do better now, not make excuses for them (oh 30fps is fine, 40fps in performance mode is fine, the hardware is just too weak guys, poor developers, have sympathy for them!)

Do you honestly believe this? Do you honestly think that developers will not optimize for the 90% of users? Can you give me an example last gen where a game was unoptimized for the PS4 because of the PS4 pro? The pro console will be the one unoptimized. We have seen this with the PS4 and PS4 pro.

What I remember is that the PS4 is always the basis of development, and they just increase the resolution and fps for the pro without really optimizing. Optimization can only do so much. It cannot make up for the lack of power in the base model. What's wrong with having a performance mode as an option that is as good as the fidelity mode of the base model?

 

[JayK47]

What we need are slim versions which are cheaper to make and priced accordingly. We need a $250 PS5 slim that would sell like hot cakes.