Yeah, I guess, but the realization seemed to be that a host is a host so who gives a fuck, essentially agreeing with Logan's line of thinking, to the extreme.
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Westworld - Live in Your World, Play in Ours - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter RatskyWatsky
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Yeah, I guess, but the realization seemed to be that a host is a host so who gives a fuck, essentially agreeing with Logan's line of thinking, to the extreme.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Well you can't bring anything from the outside world into Westworld. Phones, tablets, etc. It might have been something William snuck in with him to remind him he has a life outside of WW.
Good point; I forgot about that restriction.
It's Logan that brought this photo in, no? Maybe his sister gave it to him as a reminder to not go too nuts on what is essentially a bachelor party visit to WW
right, but one has dragons and the power to make everyone join your side eventually and the other got the ability to command hosts around (and apparently brainless butchers, too), they both seem to follow a similar empowerment path. Just that Maeve is a little more morally ambigious
lol that's actually not a bad point, maybe we get the "Logan and William are really hosts, too" reveal after all. I mean, him caring around physical pictures of his sister is kind of weird
Zoe
Member
But under it all..I think one scene in this episode confirmed my most important theory - that Ford is a robot. The scene where "young" Ford goes out of the room and calls Arnold...his movement seems so robotic, especially while closing the first door...guess I'll have to wait for episode 10 for the reveal.
I thought at first it was a robot because of the movements, but it could also just be a consequence of the budget and trying to make the stand-in look like Hopkins.
So she specifically mentioned the town? Huh, I must have missed that.
When she's talking to Piss Writer, she says that Ford has dug up an old town at the fringes of the park for his new narrative. We know it's the same town because Ford was looking at scale models of that same town in his office before that.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Logan took out the picture, but I think it's a bit weird to sneak in a physical photo of your sister into Westworld. So I just assume that he got it off William's things.
Or hell, Maybe Logan is a swell family oriented man outside of Westworld and just becomes Trevor Phillips in GTAV inside Westworld.
I mean, Daenarys has the power to raise dragons and not get burned cause she's a Targaryan. That's just how the world works. It's not like she was some nobody who had no power and came from no royal blood. She was groomed from birth to become a ruler. She had a reasonable rise to power compared to Maeve who has a fairly unbelievable one. If they were gonna write about nobody becoming the leader of a robot revolution, they should have written her rise to power a lot better. Daenarys is a bad actress supported by good writing. Maeve is bad writing supported by a good actress.
Same question my partner had. Arnold must have been reasonably famous for building Westworld?
Angry Fork
Member
Maeve will encounter resistance when Ford catches wind of what she's doing, assuming the writers don't say he's controlling her which would be lame. Everything else is honestly pretty smooth in my opinion, like in terms of her progression. She's an angry A.I. who's incredibly smart and capable in a world where humans don't suspect she's as advanced as she is. I don't think she has plot armor at all so far.
The only thing I think that's iffy about Maeve's story is the motivation of the asian tech guy. We haven't been shown why he's helping her so much, which would be either 1. intellectual curiosity (which likely should've ended the moment shit hit the fan, his terrified expressions suggest he's not 100% on the side of "let's see where this goes"), or 2. because he thinks wiping her mind would be morally wrong at this point. But the 2nd one hasn't been established for him at all unless I'm forgetting some dialogue where he explains why but I don't think so.
That being said she's my 2nd favorite part of the show after the Ford/Arnold stuff, I like her actress a lot and it's just fun to watch Maeve go further and further.
The only thing I think that's iffy about Maeve's story is the motivation of the asian tech guy. We haven't been shown why he's helping her so much, which would be either 1. intellectual curiosity (which likely should've ended the moment shit hit the fan, his terrified expressions suggest he's not 100% on the side of "let's see where this goes"), or 2. because he thinks wiping her mind would be morally wrong at this point. But the 2nd one hasn't been established for him at all unless I'm forgetting some dialogue where he explains why but I don't think so.
That being said she's my 2nd favorite part of the show after the Ford/Arnold stuff, I like her actress a lot and it's just fun to watch Maeve go further and further.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Host version of Ford's dad that Arnold built for him.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
But nothing she has accomplished has been a result of her making smart calculated decisions. It's been nothing but convenience that has accommodated her progress so far.
I must have really missed something. How do we know that?
the MiB is currently stuck in the narrative created by Ford specifically for him - or so I presume, anyway - and he might already be in the outer bounderies of the park where they can't keep track of the guest anymore (then again, the board member found him). Or they would have just cut the rope if the MiB really had been in danger. Isn't it also rather strange that one guest can tie up another one and threaten them with violence? Maybe that's just how things are at the edge of the park
Blue Ninja
Member
I knew the whole Bernarnold thing was coming, but when Dolores walked into that room and sat down my face still went all
And then Dolores goes and says she killed him, goddamn. This fucking show.
And then Dolores goes and says she killed him, goddamn. This fucking show.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Because we see him in the cottage and Ford says that's his father that Arnold built as a gift to him.
Horses are hosts. The nice horse wouldn't have let the nice man die.
Oh ok. I had forgotten what his dad even looked like. Thank you.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I noticed he actually almost died from falling face first into his own knife after cutting himself down.
That's just in the present timeline that he's always been in. Teddy was told he would find "Wyatt" where their story started, and he replied "Escalante." So, MiB knows where to go when he frees himself from the horse noose.
EDIT: Just to clarify, there are three timelines:
Before the park opens (30 years ago and some change) - Arnold and Ford are living in the park while testing and refining the initial hosts in Escalante. Arnold and Dolores have talks, Ford and Arnold have a falling out, Dolores kills Arnold, Teddy shoots up Escalante, which is buried.
30 years ago, park is officially open - Logan and William visit the park, William falls for Dolores who is becoming self aware due to Arnold's conversations before his death.
Present - Ford introduces "reveries" into the hosts, allowing them to gain new phsycial behaviors based on past experiences. This triggers various malfuncitons among hosts, and Maeve and Dolores to becomes self aware, causing the former to plot her escape from the park and the latter to re-live her experience with William from 30 years ago. MiB (William) is trying to find a deeper level to the park that he believes has been left by Arnold, and is funneled into Ford's new storyline while accompanied by various hosts, namely Teddy. Delos is trying to wrest control of the host code from Ford, who still has the upper hand due to the code only being on site and Ford effectively being a god in total control in the park. Theresa is killed by Ford/Bernard after it's discovered she was attempting to send data outside of the park using satellites, Elsie is seemingly killed when she gets tangled up in things, Bernard becomes self aware due to Maeve's probing and is seemingly decommissioned by Ford.
Zoe
Member
It was said early on that practically all traces of him were wiped from the park/company.
Angry Fork
Member
What? She controls hosts to her advantage (the cowboy safe robber, clementine, maybe others I can't recall) in the park and uses fear/persuasion to intimidate the tech's in the lab to do what she needs. She created/took advantage of multiple scenario's to influence the cowboy dude as well as knowing when/how to return to the lab if she needs. Basically everything she's done has been a result of cunning.
The only convenience I can think of is 1. happening upon Dolores who tells her the "these violent delights" quote which seemed to trigger something in her, but them going past each other was part of the everyday loop anyway, and 2. being matched with Bernard for a check up, but it makes sense for the head of the department to take care of such an issue with Elsie gone who was probably the default person in charge of that (and we don't know any other main host-interviewing characters anyway, it would have to be Bernard).
Without using google or any other search engine/device - name the person that is credited as the creator of the World Wide Web and describe what he looks like...go...
I mean - that seems like someone who should be pretty famous and well-known...right?
I Think I have Heard Al Gore was somewhere in the process might be totally wrong
But, if I worked for a company, I would sooner or later see a pic of the creators.
Sure, the visitors wouldn't care but the employees.
ryutaro's mama
Member
Great catch right there.
Angry Fork
Member
Also like Zoe said Arnold's history was completely wiped out before the park even opened (maybe, I can't recall if they said they were still in testing phases during this period or if it was open to the public already). Ford likely covered up the real cause of his death as well.
The original few employees who were there are no longer at the company, only Ford knows who Arnold is, which is pretty sad when thinking about it that Arnold never got his due as co-creator but Ford must've had to do that to keep the park's chances alive.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
It's not her controlling the hosts, its how she got to the point where she does control them. I have no problem with her leaving "marks" to help her remember and jog her memory. That seems smart. But everything that happens outside the park grounds should be a lot more intelligent and better written than "I'm intimidating dawling." It's convenient that she happens upon the two most spineless techs in the company. It's convenient that Sylvester never reports her even after making her intentions clear about what she wants to do. It's convenient that they are intimidated at all despite having total control of her. It's convenient that no one ever notices her shit in a room full of glass walls. Just this latest episode, when Bernard was examining her, there was a tech looking at a fat naked cowboy man in the room behind her. When she freezes Bernard and he stays frozen for quite a while, the tech is magically gone and the whole floor is cleared. It's convenient that there is no security overlook with Bernard while examining Maeve even though she was brought in for unusual violent behavior. It's convenient that Ford is not there with him. Either fate is on Maeve's side or Ford is.
Personally I think Maeve's gonna get shut down by Ford. The person who will get the drop on Ford will be Papa Abernathy.
terrible anology
enthusiasts will know who their idol is that created the park. Scientists working in releated areas of research will know. The people who worked with Ford and Arnold would know. Unless the whole thing was kept super secret and Ford killed of the entire staff, knowledge of Arnold's existence would come to surface. Lots of people would probably be interested in finding who Arnold is/was, if they did some digging and discover that all traces of him have been erased there would be a lot of talk
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
I commented a few shows in how terribly wasted Jeffery Wright was in the show, and that he better damn well be a host and get to do something worthy of his talent later on. And so he has, in spades.
Angry Fork
Member
I think some of those criticisms are fair for sure in terms of the lab stuff. There are some scenes where the floor is full of tech's doing things with hosts and then other times all the rooms are empty with hosts just sitting there. I don't feel like that discounts everything Maeve has done with what she's given though. There's some luck but she's still doing a lot on her own, enough to justify where she's at imo.
Didn't this happen?
I assumed that was why there were a tonne of bodies in the hallway under the church when Dolores first (in the show) went in there.
Ignatz Mouse
Banned
Regarding Maeve, she lucked out to the point where the doofuses upper her intelligence, thinking that the could shut her down afterwards. They underestimated her, and she found leverage points.
Given that one of her basic maxed out stats was presumable persuasion/seduction in the first place, it's not that hard to wrap your head around. The show just doesn't do a very good job showing it.
Given that one of her basic maxed out stats was presumable persuasion/seduction in the first place, it's not that hard to wrap your head around. The show just doesn't do a very good job showing it.
andythinkpad
Member
Maeve's story line is 2 tiers dumber than the rest of the story lines.
It's like these parts were written by a person who doesn't understand how technology works (and how corporate system admin delegate rights and permissions) who write it as a Matrix fanfic.
edit: also, casually kick down lantern to start a fire while having passionic sex, I will let you tell me how terricamp it is.
Jack Scofield
Member
Kind of sick of Ford being in control of absolutely everything. I would like him to be thrown off his game for once.
Yeah, they know Robert Ford.
I mean the scenario presented by the show is that Ford worked with Arnold and a small team for 3 years before the park was ready to open. We don't know how public this is, so it's not impossible that the beta period was meant to be a secret project to attract investors. We don't know what the scientific community knows about the facts of Westworld's origins, we don't even know anything about the state of the world at large. If we keep going down the rabbit hole, then the biggest question I have would not be how they covered up Arnold's partnership, because that part is really easy. It would be how Westworld even got made as it is, without Delos outright owning them from the start. Where did the money come from? The land, the tech, the details, and 3 years of R&D and production without seeing a cent in return until the park opens? That's a shitload of money. What did Ford do before Westworld?!
I don't think it's right to conflate both techs as the same. Sylvester is an idiot who underestimated her and wanted to shut her down, but Felix is actually sympathetic to her plight. He's the one who changed her stats and "unlocked" her, against Sylvester's wishes. His attitude towards the hosts isn't unlike Arnold's (remember when he was working on the bird in his off time?).
Sylvester is the fool who thinks the hosts are just things that they have total control over. Felix wanted to help her.
Or it's like these parts are watched by people who think that this fictional robot theme park has the same IT setup as their mundane present-day office jobs.
That had to be present Deloris, because the one in the past was just knifed, and in those scenes she's fine.
Edit: I also need to get my hands on the old film that inspired the writers to make this series. Just to see the similarities. It also sounds cool as fuck with Medieval and Rome World.
DorkLord54
Member
It wasn't an accident, Ford's trying to kill him because he's the only member of the board who actually knows what's going on.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
I won't take credit away from her at all from what she did in the park grounds. Those are smart plays. But everything in the lab requires more than intimidation and faith in Felix, which is all she has been relying on for that aspect.
And it's convenient that she never runs into anyone who her charm and persuasion wouldn't effect, like Hemsworth. Bernard,for one, would never fall for her shit if she didn't happen to reencounter him after learning his secrets. Like I said, everything is so convenient. Fucking Hemsworth himself is the one who ordered her recall and doesn't even oversee her examination. The game is rigged in her favor and it's not because she set it up that way either. It has to be Ford or bad writing.
Present day Dolores has been shown multiple times. Cowboy outfit + alone is her in the present retracing her past trips. We saw her alone in: a field, the train, Pariah, outside of the church town, possibly other places I'm forgetting.
Her past trips (at least two of which we know):
1. Her first journey into the town church wearing a blue dress, heeding the voice in her head. 34 years ago.
2. Trip with William. Town was already destroyed and buried (we don't know why yet). William pulled her away from the location since she was acting haywire. 30 years ago.
There was no danger as has been explained. The horse is a robot and would have doubled back and given him slack. IF he was under any real threat, "dead" Teddy would have reactivated and saved him from harm.
No. If Ford wanted MIB dead, he already would be. A 100 chances for that to happen have already passed.
andythinkpad
Member
This is not how corporation works. We are talking about any corporation from any period, including the oldest one, the British Indian Company.
Um, are you talking about the East India Company? I'm pretty sure they didn't spend a lot of time on deciding who got admin privileges on their robot-controlling tablet computers, no.