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[Forth]

As much as my Series X does disappoint me, it still has games like Ori and Starfield. I know that's divisive but those games matter to me and they're not on PlayStation.
I'll agree that I would love games like Ghost of Tsushima but for that I'd need a PS5 and I can't because I restrict myself to one console each generation because I don't have the time to play two.
My biggest concern with Xbox is their recent acquisition of Activ, Blizz and King, personally I have zero interest in any of the franchise's from those three yet MS thought eighty billion was worth it.
I just don't know where MS wants to take Xbox going forward and I've more confidence that PlayStation know what they are doing. I just wish Bethesda were still third party.

 

[ADiTAR]

The gamepass strategy isn't to sign up 1-2 million users per month that dig those niche games though, is my point.

The only way GP grows is with AAAA titles on the regular, not niche titles on the regular. I think GamePass as an idea is getting way too much focus from Microsoft and is a failed concept. It's great for indie and smaller titles like you say, but it should in no way be a substitute for full priced titles on day 1.

They went for it, and they would need to revert back hard which will cause a big clap back.

I think they can still have 1-2 big AAAAAAAAAA titles, but fresh experiences in experimental titles in between is what made Steam huge. It was the indie titles that carried it to bigness.

 

[NeverYouMind]

They sure do. Remember the original Xbox with games like Kung-Fu Chaos, Fusion Frenzy, Mechassault, Phantasy Star Online, Morrowind… there were many reasons to choose Xbox back in 2002.

Is there even a single reason to choose Xbox over PlayStation or PC? I mean, the Wii U was more compelling than the current Xbox lineup.

There is no reason to choose any brand of console over PC nowadays. They are complementary in terms of what else they can offer.

Wii U had pretty poor ports of last gen titles and bad remasters. The Series consoles at least have the best versions of last gen titles and all the modern third party releases in addition to all the Microsoft published titles.

I think they can still have 1-2 big AAAAAAAAAA titles, but fresh experiences in experimental titles in between is what made Steam huge. It was the indie titles that carried it to bigness.

There is no point in having the biggest budget release game no matter the genre as most games that sell nowadays belong to an established franchise with existing fans and modern indies are mediocrity given fanfare. It is the AA studios releasing the quality stuff. Baldur's Gate III, Lies of P, etc.

 

[adamsapple]

Why are the Sony warriors so concerned about Microsoft? And also I can play most of the games you mentioned on PC

Xbox fans on GAF love to talk about Xbox and Game Pass.

Playstation fans on GAF love to talk about Xbox and Game Pass.

Phil was onto something when he said that Playstation owners are also part of the Xbox community a few days back.

 

[Phase]

I honestly think Sony is heading down the same route as MS, just lagging behind. Their big franchises are stagnating and becoming less appealing by the year. They're also taking too much time to release their games (like the rest of the AAA industry). You can almost see the slow crash starting to happen.

I think big developers need to start having smaller projects alongside if they wish the keep their offerings fresh and players interested.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

I honestly think Sony is heading down the same route as MS, just lagging behind. Their big franchises are stagnating and becoming less appealing by the year. They're also taking too much time to release their games (like the rest of the AAA industry). You can almost see the slow crash starting to happen.

I think big developers need to start having smaller projects alongside if they wish the keep their offerings fresh and players interested.

Ragnarok was the fastest selling exclusive of all time for them. That's not stagnation.

Anyway, even if they were stagnating, stagnating at sales of 20+M each is not a bad place to be. Big difference between that and stagnating at irrelevance.

 

[Phase]

And most of those, if not all, are old tired IP's.

 

[Punished Miku]

The problem is that while hardcore gamers like you and me love the HFR type titles, HFR would not have sold well at retail and probably didn't cause many GP subs in general.

You can't fix bad taste.

If the thesis is that they will never win unless they make mainstream crap, then I hope they never win. And honestly, even if they did do that, I don't think they would win then either. It's okay to find a loyal niche as long as you're profitable.

 

[ADiTAR]

There is no point in having the biggest budget release game no matter the genre as most games that sell nowadays belong to an established franchise with existing fans and modern indies are mediocrity given fanfare. It is the AA studios releasing the quality stuff. Baldur's Gate III, Lies of P, etc.

Larian are indie and had an established IP to work off. Also don't think BG3 is AA, unless we talking about budgets.

Anyways, those are my thoughts.

 

[Phase]

Ragnarok was the fastest selling exclusive of all time for them. That's not stagnation.

Anyway, even if they were stagnating, stagnating at sales of 20+M each is not a bad place to be. Big difference between that and stagnating at irrelevance.

Yes, ragnarok did fine. That's one IP. Also, are they going to just release another similar game yet again next? My point was the stagnation is beginning to set in for Sony. For MS it's already been there.

 

[bitbydeath]

They’re probably paid bots.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Yes, ragnarok did fine. That's one IP. Also, are they going to just release another similar game yet again next? My point was the stagnation is beginning to set in for Sony. For MS it's already been there.

MS didn't see stagnation, they saw a massive decline in popularity for their biggest titles.

Like I said, stagnation when you have games selling tons of units is fine. Nintendo has also "stagnated" if that's a metric. The only way to hypergrowth seems to be with GaaS type titles. but GaaS is a crapshoot, and traditional SP games are guaranteed sellers.

You can't fix bad taste.

If the thesis is that they will never win unless they make mainstream crap, then I hope they never win. And honestly, even if they did do that, I don't think they would win then either. It's okay to find a loyal niche as long as you're profitable.

I don't think "games that sell" is synonymous with mainstream crap. That seems to be a false narrative. Certainly, SOME games that are mainstream fit that description, but there's a large contingent that don't.

You don't consider Halo, Gears, etc. to be "mainstream?" At some point they certainly were. Arguably still are in a lesser capacity.

 

[NeverYouMind]

Ragnarok was the fastest selling exclusive of all time for them. That's not stagnation.

Anyway, even if they were stagnating, stagnating at sales of 20+M each is not a bad place to be. Big difference between that and stagnating at irrelevance.

How many people actually enjoyed Ragnarok relative to the preceding installment?

And most of those, if not all, are old tired IP's.

That goes for all the big game publishers.

Larian are indie and had an established IP to work off. Also don't think BG3 is AA, unless we talking about budgets.

Anyways, those are my thoughts.

They stopped being an indie developer when they could fund the project. Before they needed kickstarter to fund Divinity: Original Sin 2.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

How many people actually enjoyed Ragnarok relative to the preceding installment?

Certainly far more than agree with you on this, I would imagine.

Also, what about Starfield? Sci-fi fans are still blown away by its scope and quality.

Objectively Ragnarok is the far better playing game, from a gameplay standpoint. There's more diversify of areas to explore, and tons more side content. Some don't like the pacing as much, which I don't disagree with.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

Really simple, for whatever reason, their games are not appealing to most people.
It's not necessarily because the games are bad like others say. Is it because of bad marketing? does people automatically lose interest when they see the Xbox brand at the beginning of the trailers? who knows, but people just don't rush to play those games.

But yeah it's just that, for most people their games are not interesting enough to get into the ecosystem.

 

[Punished Miku]

I don't think "games that sell" is synonymous with mainstream crap. That seems to be a false narrative. Certainly, SOME games that are mainstream fit that description, but there's a large contingent that don't.

You don't consider Halo, Gears, etc. to be "mainstream?" At some point they certainly were. Arguably still are in a lesser capacity.

It's not a 1 to 1 overlap. Lots of popular games are awesome. But there are simply games that we know in advance are never going to be popular, so they are never going to get made at all if that is the criteria. Stuff like Pentiment, Psychonauts, Hi-Fi Rush. And it turns out those are some of my favorite games out there. It just shows that even if they make fantastic games, that isn't enough.

Halo and Gears are totally mainstream. I've never been into those series honestly. Halo Infinite is the first one I played since part 1, and only because it was on GP. I was surprised how enjoyable it was. Gears I just played part 1 and that's it. Haven't tried the others. They seem fine, but I don't see much of any gameplay innovation for any of the sequels based on brief stuff I've barely seen. I may try them out for fun since its on GP but neither of these are system sellers for me or the reason I'm satisfied with Xbox stuff this gen.

 

[midnightAI]

Wait..... Riky is Klobrite? That explains a lot.

 

[rofif]

I hate those self masturbatory pics. Look at all the studios we've bought and will ruin more like
The wall of casuals.

What I don't like about xbox is they make fools out of gamers and customers. "we all play we all win" and all that shit is just disgusting crap that makes no sense and is a lie. They use the cheapest tricks and everyone can see it.
And they invented paid online first to ruin that part... and then sub service gaming to ruin that part.
And yeah - of course they dont have exclusives. I had 360 because it had amazing games. a ton in first part of 360 life. Blades dashboard was amazing. NXE was ok... everything after was terrible

 

[Topher]

Certainly far more than agree with you on this, I would imagine.



Objectively Ragnarok is the far better playing game, from a gameplay standpoint. There's more diversify of areas to explore, and tons more side content. Some don't like the pacing as much, which I don't disagree with.

Not so sure GoW:R has more side content. How are you measuring that? And I think the general consensus is that God of War:R is the better game/better gameplay, but that's not objectively true at all. Just the predominant opinion.

 

[Krieger]

Why the fuck is Call of Duty listed 7 times?

 

[Topher]

Why the fuck is Call of Duty listed 7 times?

It is a list of studios.

 

[NeverYouMind]

What I don't like about xbox is they make fools out of gamers and customers. "we all play we all win" and all that shit is just disgusting crap that makes no sense and is a lie. They use the cheapest tricks and everyone can see it.
And they invented paid online first to ruin that part... and then sub service gaming to ruin that part.
And yeah - of course they dont have exclusives. I had 360 because it had amazing games. a ton in first part of 360 life. Blades dashboard was amazing. NXE was ok... everything after was terrible

All the platform publishers are full of shit:

Microsoft: "We all play , we all win..." while money is flowing out of your wallet for GaaS content and recurring subscriptions.

PlayStation: "For the players..." they increased sub prices and lowered quality of free subscriber games.

Nintendo: "Innovation drives Nintendo..." to have the worst online service, hardware, and backwards compatibility.

 

[kiphalfton]

After playing however many PS exclusives, that all feel the same, if Xbox can release a 2-3 really good games that would gain a lot of traction imo.

 

[Topher]

After playing however many PS exclusives, that all feel the same, if Xbox can release a 2-3 really good games that would gain a lot of traction imo.

Consistently releasing good games has been the big problem for Xbox games so I don't think you are alone in that assessment.

 

[Clintizzle]

I think GamePass as an idea is getting way too much focus from Microsoft and is a failed concept.

 

[tusharngf]

I enjoyed forza horizon 5 on gamepass and then I got the game on Steam immediately. Later halo collection dropped on steam with a discount i got that as well. I have been playing FH5 for the past year and I am still not bored with it. Meanwhile, I dropped the first Spiderman game because of the controlled campaign missions. The only exclusive I enjoyed is Bloodborne from playstation after that last of us first but thats it. I think Xbox has good RPG and racing games even FPS. With Game Pass I can play all of them for a fraction of the money. Last gen I decided to go with ps4 and later ps pro but this gen I went with only PC. I can play all xbox and ps titles on it.

 

[Aguero9320]

Xbox has had a pretty good year this year IMO. Last year was dogshit, but the year before was also pretty good. And we have the covid excuse for the off year… Not sure anyone can deny the future looks brighter, regardless of whether you agree with my assessment or not… So not sure what the problem is… Seems to be at least as much if not more to look forward to than the competition…

Hi Fi Rush wasn’t for me, but Starfield is one of the games of the year and Forza is really harshly treated in terms of its reception - great game.

 

[Phase]

I think the big question is: How long can these AAA studios continue to milk franchises that were created 15-25 years ago? The milk is clearly starting to run dry but they're still trying their hardest to squeeze every last drop. Personally, I don't think these big studios have the talent and/or skill to create great new IP's with their current workforce.

IMO a (necessary) crash is approaching.

 

[Kumomeme]

games not matter

exclusives not matter

gamers? pfft unless it is for corporate PR talk.

what most matter is whatever friendly neighborhood uncle phil is saying and must be defended at all cost.
the rest out there is evil that must be vanquished.

 

[Danjin44]

How exciting.....

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I currently do not own an xbox but loved the original OG Xbox and Xbox 360. It is not a complicated formula on why the Xbox brand has been failing. At the end of the day, what really matters are the games. The PS5 has so many more exclusive games it wipes it's ass with the Xbox brand.

On PS5 I am playing: God of War, Spiderman Series, , Ratchet and Clank, Ghost of Tsushima, Returnal, The Last of us series, Demon Souls, Astro's playroom, etc. There is a great library of games developed for the PS platform:

On Xbox you have: A pretty good Forza series, A shell of bungie Halo, Gears of War still going?, I know Xbox fanboys are creaming their pants for Starfield but the consensus says it's pretty average, Ori is cool, and Flight Simulator if that is your thing. The Xbox brand has failed to establish IP's that get the masses excited.

It's simple, GAMES MATTER!

If microsoft stays in this console race and flexes their muscles using their new Developer acquisitions to keep games exclusively on xbox it could become interesting down the road. I admit that I am rooting for Xbox and sad to see it's much worse than I thought at this point in time. Bottom line is the games I can play on said platform matter much more than Teraflops or marketing. You have to be a complete blind fool to not admit thate Sony has many more exclusive better games than the Xbox brand right now. That could change but time will tell.

*The point of this thread is not some fanboy flame war. I am giving my opinion on the way I see things. It is clear when you look at sales comparison the xbox brand is falling way behind. There are factors to that but IMO the core reason is software.

Microsoft executives and management are the biggest problems. They're not only out of touch with what gamers want, they're dishonest and have interests that step all over gamers needs.

-Parity with Series S
-Forced Crossplay
-Making Halo "free to play" while forcing Crossplay
-Pushing Gamepass at the EXPENSE of promises they made at the beginning of the generation.
-Can't get their Microsoft Store or ui to work well
-Inundation us with ads on the ui
-Trying to push the entirety of the gaming market into services at the expense of delivering polished exclusives.
-debacles like Redfall and Starfield 30 fps only
-history of false advertising and downgrades as seen with Redfall and recently Forza Motorsport
-acting like the Series X is supposed to be their "mid gen upgrade"
-mismanagement of studios resulting in Halo Infinite and situations where games are in development limbo
-cancelling the Back Comat Program which was one of the best aspects of owning an Xbox
-not updating games like Forza Horizon 3, Gears 1 ultimate, Ryse, Dead Rising 3, Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break for 4k/60 ..some of the big games from Xbox One generation..despite people asking for them for years

They only care about Subscription services, cloud gaming, and buying out big publishers to try to strong-arm the industry. That's Phil Spencer's legacy ..that and being one of the most phony actors in gaming history.

If you only care about GamePass and are happy with the service and don't mind being jerked around by the whims of this mega company who now feels justified to do whatever they please in order to suit the GP model, then I can see that section of Xbox users being fine with the current direction.

People who value exclusives, backwards compatibility, and traditional gaming-things promised by Phil when thr Series X was announced, may want to jump ship.

 

[Lillie]

I'd love for Microsoft to embrace its PC nature in the Xbox by somehow partnering with Valve to get a Steam app to play your steam PC game library in 'big picture mode' on the xbox. Would love that as an easy way to play PC titles on the TV

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

How exciting.....

High Moon helped Bungie develop The Taken King and Forsaken expansions which resulted in some of the best moments I had in Destiny and Destiny 2 so they're good in my book.

 

[iamvin22]

Oh look, another concerned gamer with only good Intentions opening a thread.

You hurt?!?

Wouldn't you want Xbox to drop bangers? It only benefits all of us gamers if all 3 are dropping bangers.

 

[Danjin44]

High Moon helped Bungie develop The Taken King and Forsaken expansions which resulted in some of the best moments I had in Destiny and Destiny 2 so they're good in my book.

I personally want to see more interesting and exciting AA games like Hi-Fi Rush from both Microsoft and Sony.

 

[iHaunter]

#thanksKlobrille

How many of those did you beat?

 

[Topher]

I personally want to see more interesting and exciting AA games like Hi-Fi Rush from both Microsoft and Sony.

HFR didn't click for me but definitely would love to see more effort in the AA space especially since the AAA games are probably going to take more time. Sony did really well previously with games like Gravity Rush and The Last Guardian in critical response, if not financially, but Sony seems to have lost interest in the AA space and that is a real shame.

 

[Elder Legend]

And most of those, if not all, are old tired IP's.

And Ratchet Clank, Uncharted, God of War, Gran Turismo are not tired old ips? They all been around since the early to mid 2000s. Lol.

 

[semiconscious]

I honestly think Sony is heading down the same route as MS, just lagging behind. Their big franchises are stagnating and becoming less appealing by the year. They're also taking too much time to release their games (like the rest of the AAA industry). You can almost see the slow crash starting to happen.

I think big developers need to start having smaller projects alongside if they wish the keep their offerings fresh and players interested.

what's been weird to experience is the way that all the sony heavy hitter 'sequels' (tlou2, gow:r, horizon: fw, & spider-man 2) feel much more like 'new episodes'. i support asset reuse, but there's a thin line between something that feels like a fresh, new adventure & something that feels like a walk through the same familiar neighborhood. not that this's exclusively a sony issue (take tears of the kingdom - please!). but it's something that's become quite consistent the last few years...

 

[Efren is G.O.A.T.]

Of course exclusives matter! I don't own an Xbox because all the games I like release on pc the same day so I don't have a reason to own one.

 

[FalconPunch]

The next person that tries to blame Matrick again is getting sucker punched lol. What a lazy excuse. If there’s one persons picture you should be putting up there, it’s spencer. What an absolute clown he is always falling upwards. During the Mattick era, Spencer was the head of Xbox game’s studio and he’s the reason Xbox had no games. That’s Spencer’s doing.

Matrick made two mistakes. The first was not firing Spencer for failing to manage Xbox game studios properly. The second was trying to force an always online console down everyone’s throat. Then after Matrick got canned, Spencer came here with this revisionist history about how it was Matricks fault. As if he wasn’t sucking him off when being a yes man about the Xbox one always online nonsense. You know Spencer was all about it too because he became the first ceo to release a digital only console with the Xbox one sad. This guy has been in power for two console generations and under his watch, Xbox has been absolutely abysmal. If anyone else but Satya was the leader of Microsoft, Xbox as a console is probably done and Spencer is gone. Satya just saw that he could use $1 gamepass sign ups to spam his corporate bonuses. Dude is out here busy wasting Microsoft’s money and mismanaging my stocks.

 

[Beechos]

Between Playstation and Xbox the hardware is even more similar. On a rational basis it's the software that's going to be the main factor for your purchase.

And yes in proportion what you're saying is true. It's a few games but not just any games. First party games have never been more impactful than today, when most third party games are trying to milk you as much as possible, the only thing that remains is killer app, the games that exist to grow the number of users.

Ms bought bethesda and activsion so by default they should dominate right, with all those so called exclusives?
Sony and Nintendo are so entrenched in the mindset of people no amount of exclusives will get ms back on track which is why they are desperately trying to be the defacto source for cloud gaming. No cod on playstation, their users will just play some other fps and someone will take advantage of that.

Right now only colossal fuck ups by Sony will give ms a chance to come back.
ms fucked up the xbox one launch with their always online and gamesharing strategy which caused ppl to jumpship and never come back.
If ms launched xbox one with their current gamepass/for the gamers identity things wouldve been more even last gen even with the shitty exclusives.

 

[Pelta88]

OP is advocating for better games but you've got a certain segment, the usual suspects, out here in full on defence mode.

 

[bender]

It doesn't feel like Microsoft's focus is on Xbox anymore but rather Gamepass.

 

[killatopak]

In my case, they have very little presence in my country. The store shelves are tiny compared to Nintendo and Playstation. It’s extremely hard to find local communities and even 2nd hand sellers here. I have to look elsewhere like here on GAF or international communities to actually talk about Xbox otherwise it never gets brought up at all.

Sometimes you just have to ride the wave to have easier time.

 

[Gavon West]

I currently do not own an xbox but loved the original OG Xbox and Xbox 360. It is not a complicated formula on why the Xbox brand has been failing. At the end of the day, what really matters are the games. The PS5 has so many more exclusive games it wipes it's ass with the Xbox brand.

On PS5 I am playing: God of War, Spiderman Series, , Ratchet and Clank, Ghost of Tsushima, Returnal, The Last of us series, Demon Souls, Astro's playroom, etc. There is a great library of games developed for the PS platform:

On Xbox you have: A pretty good Forza series, A shell of bungie Halo, Gears of War still going?, I know Xbox fanboys are creaming their pants for Starfield but the consensus says it's pretty average, Ori is cool, and Flight Simulator if that is your thing. The Xbox brand has failed to establish IP's that get the masses excited.

It's simple, GAMES MATTER!

If microsoft stays in this console race and flexes their muscles using their new Developer acquisitions to keep games exclusively on xbox it could become interesting down the road. I admit that I am rooting for Xbox and sad to see it's much worse than I thought at this point in time. Bottom line is the games I can play on said platform matter much more than Teraflops or marketing. You have to be a complete blind fool to not admit thate Sony has many more exclusive better games than the Xbox brand right now. That could change but time will tell.

*The point of this thread is not some fanboy flame war. I am giving my opinion on the way I see things. It is clear when you look at sales comparison the xbox brand is falling way behind. There are factors to that but IMO the core reason is software.

Your opinion I guess but, I much prefer the Xbox1st party and ecosystem to Sonys. Sony has been doing copy/paste games for over a decade now. I like variety and being able to play my games where i want.

Gamepass is a tian subscription service in this arena and with the amount of studios on the roster, I'm personally happy with where I play as a gamer. Respect though, my guy. Like what you like. Play what you play.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Exclusives do matter, and that's why Nintendo has 20 first-party games which are 10 million+ sellers on Switch and the Switch itself has outsold both PS4 + XBone combined the previous gen and is easily going to outsell the PS5 + XSeX combined this gen.

The reality is Nintendo is the ruler of gaming because they have all the exclusives that matter. Sony and Microsoft are out there fighting for the scraps.

 

[adamsapple]

How exciting.....

Just 6 out of 40

Not bad, TBH

All the platform publishers are full of shit:

Microsoft: "We all play , we all win..." while money is flowing out of your wallet for GaaS content and recurring subscriptions.
P
ayStation: "For the players..." they increased sub prices and lowered quality of free subscriber games.

Nintendo: "Innovation drives Nintendo..." to have the worst online service, hardware, and backwards compatibility.

My corpo is better than our corpo

 

[Gavon West]

I’m guessing folk don’t understand some people just like the Xbox exclusives/IPs and prefer them over Sony’s offerings? Id rather play ANY Halo than ANY game in that Sony list. Seriously.

I’m all about the MP, whether that be Forza, Halo, Gears, Sea of Thieves, COD (I guess it’s MS’s baby going forward). Sony doesn’t have anything that touches them for me. There isn’t one Sony exclusive I have ever genuinely wanted to play other than the Uncharted series (and one day I will).

Spider-Man? Been there with Batman Arkham Asylum 15 years ago - didn’t even touch the Batman sequels as I’d had my fill. Ratchet and Clank? Pass. Left baby stuff like that behind when i stopped sucking my thumb.

And folk can say what they want about the quality/success of Microsoft’s recent offerings - hi fi rush, redfall and starfield. They have so many studios that will be churning out so many games, there is bound to be something for everyone going forward. Some of that stuff will stick.

I think MS are in a good place software wise. Definitely too late to turn the hardware tide (folk are locked into their ecosystems now), but they will recover somewhat and always be a major player.

No hard feelings, we all like what we like.

Great post! I'm trying to figure out how we got back to posts ripped straight out of the Xbox One era? HiFi Rush, Forza, Forza Horizon 5, Starfield, not to mention completing a $70 billion dollar acquisition of ABK, Zenimax/Bethesda and the whole of XGS studios. The brand has never been stronger. Not to mention Gamepass.

If OP is talking about console sales from software, Xbox isn't trying to beat Sony in the console games. But software they have with an entire shit load in the pipeline. This isn't the Xbox One era anymore. The whole gaming landscape has changed and Xbox is firmly the cause of that. Sony is the market leader. No doubt there. But that could very well change in the next few years.

 

[FIREKNIGHT2029]

MS is all about PC, GamePass and the cloud these days. It's clear they are abandoning Xbox.


If they don't care about their console why should consumers care?


That Phil interview we had a few months ago should tell you guys all you need to know about Xbox as a brand.