Support NeoGAF

[Mario]

Screw an origin story. I want to see an aging Superman, in his "50s", growing tired abd cynical of his soft allegiance with the US and an increasingly oppressive/manipulative government, conflicted on who and what he is fighting for, second guessing his actions. Lois is dead. Relationship with a paranoid, almost delusional, Batman on the brink. Up and coming superheroes creating tension and tipping an unstable society over the edge towards a military state. Perhaps some softening of his powers and emergence of relative weakness due to "age" helps intensify and heighten the choices he must make. Black and red costume, no cape.

I never read the Kingdom Come series but I imagine from what I've seen it explored similar themes. A smidgeon of The Samaritan (and other heroes) from Astro City in there too.

 

[bigboss370]

just make a live action version of the Superman vs. Doomsday animated movie, that stuff was epic We get to see everything in that movie, how Superman fights for humanity even when he doesn't have to, how he struggles against Doomsday till the last breath, evil Superman, etc.

I don't want any of the 'oh make him weaker' or 'make it realistic' crap. He's a superhero, the fucking original epitome. He's an icon, larger than life. Physical opponents are easily found in Doomsday, Darkseid, and Zod. In fact Zod is such a threat i believe in one story line Lex Luthor wanted to even rescue Superman so he could defeat Zod.


The movie needs to enforce that humanity looks up to him as an inspiration to be/do good, not a figure to fear. And Supes has a strong mental backbone of doing what is good. If an alien gives so much to protect them(humanity), then perhaps they can be inspired to protect each other.

Superman is not supposed to be a flawed hero.

 

[Boss Doggie]

IMO the best movie adaptation is the one that defies the typical popular view on Superman.

All-Star Superman is one of the good titles to adapt - it gives a different topic on him, and see what sort of person Supes really is.

 

[Hamfam]

I want to see a Superman film, which represents what the World would be like if a super human who lived / was indoctrinated within USA culture existed.

The stories would resolve around human conflict, and how despite be incredibly powerful and able to influence events, also is very powerless himself. How is manipulated / controlled by the establishment, has his own moral dilemmas of whether to do good or not. Also the idea of humanity finding ways to destroy him, and seeing us strip him of his power and make him weak like us would be interesting.

Batman could play an excellent role in a film like this, a he does in the comics, of showing up Superman's choir boy mentality and how he is sometimes essentially weaker than other humans sometimes because of it.

 

[Laughing Banana]

I'll do something about the stupid "wear glasses, you're Clark Kent!, take off glasses, you're Superman!" thing.

I don't know what yet, but whatever I can come up with will definitely be better and a lot less stupid than that mind-dumbingly idiotic logic of the Superman universe.

 

[shaowebb]

just make a live action version of the Superman vs. Doomsday animated movie, that stuff was epic We get to see everything in that movie, how Superman fights for humanity even when he doesn't have to, how he struggles against Doomsday till the last breath, evil Superman, etc.

I don't want any of the 'oh make him weaker' or 'make it realistic' crap. He's a superhero, the fucking original epitome. He's an icon, larger than life. Physical opponents are easily found in Doomsday, Darkseid, and Zod. In fact Zod is such a threat i believe in one story line Lex Luthor wanted to even rescue Superman so he could defeat Zod.


The movie needs to enforce that humanity looks up to him as an inspiration to be/do good, not a figure to fear. And Supes has a strong mental backbone of doing what is good. If an alien gives so much to protect them(humanity), then perhaps they can be inspired to protect each other.

Superman is not supposed to be a flawed hero.

Not in the comics but for cinema its rather hard to make someone sit for an hour and stay entertained by someone too perfect. They grow to resent him. He's fictional and they didn't come here to be told to worship a fictional man. They came to be moved by someone. Thats FILM. What you described is perfect for comic books, but you literally have to make it so audiences are afraid to leave for fear something won't get answered. You can punch a million tanks to pieces, arm wrestler Darkseid, and suplex Doomsday into the Sun but it won't make him more than over glorified and irritating to an audience forced to watch him be perfect for 2 hours if you don't handle the public's reaction to him realistically. People wouldn't treat Superman in real life like they do in comics and to sell a live action movie that looks like real life you have to account for this. It comes with the territory...everything else feels out of place and campy.

Sorry but quite literally thats why comic books and cartoons are different than movies. It comes with a different way the audience perceives it and you have to account for that. You have to give them something more compelling than an ideal.

I imagined Braniac as being a creature with many names and ultimately nameless. Braniac would be the nickname that the people on Earth gave to him. The God Machine is another cool name.

Right now you're trying hard to make Brainiac fill a role, but before that you need to remember to ask one thing...why? You have the beginnings of a character but how do you within the span of film work him, the hero, and the conflict in together and leave time for the action and all the needed scenes of strategy. Like I said Brainiac can work, but he takes a LOT of work to get there. You need a really good plot of Superman dealing with things the audience can't believe he can beat and thats generally with Superman either an idea, the public, or his own limitations given how unbeatable he is in a fight. Brainiac is tough because he doesn't leave much room for a fight scene and he is very very subtle...he'd likely have to be staging disasters and organizing circumstances to make Superman more obstructive to victims than helpful. Its all rather forced to even do this.

What you need is an idea of something that could be difficult for Superman to deal with and then come up with a way to build that up into a physical form to label the villain. Doomsday is a monster that destroys and represents public perception of Superman at his worst so I went with him. Brainiac representing de-ifying is good like you're leaning toward, but you can't come on to strong. Audiences hate to be preached to. This is a tough TOUGH character to shove into a theater. You may want to pick another villain. Luthor, Parasite, Darkseid, Doomsday...like I said its hard to push superheroes. You have to second guess the functionality of everything vs them in the setting, conflict, and cast. Its a rough ride dealing with all those little problems.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Meh, that story is always played a lot involving Supes - on how "well he's super but he's also vulnerable crap, compared to Batman Sue!"

What I want is to show how much of an amazing character he is. That despite being Superman, his real self is Clark Kent raised by moral values of a simple farming family and inspired by his now-gone parents. That despite being pushed away by the scrutiny of people, he is able to stand up and show that he has unrivaled compassion that even Batman admits he is unable to match.

I'll do something about the stupid "wear glasses, you're Clark Kent!, take off glasses, you're Superman!" thing.

I don't know what yet, but whatever I can come up with will definitely be better and a lot less stupid than that mind-dumbingly idiotic logic of the Superman universe.

It's answered a lot - it's not the glasses, but the mannerisms, postures, etc. Not to mention the idea that "this country bumpkin can't personally be Superman!"

 

[Log4Girlz]

I'll do something about the stupid "wear glasses, you're Clark Kent!, take off glasses, you're Superman!" thing.

I don't know what yet, but whatever I can come up with will definitely be better and a lot less stupid than that mind-dumbingly idiotic logic of the Superman universe.

I always figured that Superman just did his shit real fast, and no one could take a good picture of the guy. Whenever he needed to "pause" he would vibrate just enough to blur himself out. Eventually, when a clear picture is taken, he has to deal with the fall out. In my version of Superman he inevitably finds himself in a situation where he must rescue Louis. Well, that's a prime opportunity for her to get a good look at his face and recognize him.

 

[akira28]

Never liked the boring, existential 'what do we do in a world with a Superman' navel gazing type stories. Or 'how does Superman fit into the big picture, and still leave enough room for us?' Those always annoyed me, because it injected to much human neuroses that you would hope Superman would be above, and that a real world would be much too busy for. People are constantly dying, disasters and crime everywhere, where does Superman fit into all of it? Saving people. How does a world deal with a Superman? By being fucking grateful that he's there. The whole coming to terms with him being an alien thing, you have a dude who flies and shoots lasers from his eyes. Frankly I'd be comforted that he was an alien, otherwise the explanations would probably be hopelessly complicated.

The old Supes kept things simple, and then at some point in time people figured simple wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough that he stood for truth and Justice, he had to worry about humanity relying on him too much, or whether or not he was the cause of all the troubles instead of a cure for some of them. Too many college grads with philosophy course credits, or writers bored with supervillain of the week or Lex Luthor stories, I guess. "Let the world turn against Superman", like that would ever happen. Don't make him as strong as God, allow for him to not be fast enough or to struggle with his duties and the "man" will make due with the Super. No need to worry about "how to cope with my inhumanity as a perfect being among such imperfect people" stories, or how does a Superman deal with a world of cynics.

Best Superman is simple. A man with great power who feels a great responsibility to help those who need him. Make him powerful, but not overpowered so he fixes everything effortlessly. He can't be everywhere at once, but he tries to be where he's needed, and he sometimes fails and has to deal with it by always doing his best. And let his greatest power be the human heart and soul underneath all of that that never gives up and never stops believing in doing what's right. All the agonizing and stuff can seem way too forced after a while.


tldr: screw how the world reacts to Superman, the world doesn't know shit, so why would they have an 'answer' for a Superman? It's not all that important, and meanwhile that Jumbo Jet is about to crash into the middle of Metropolis. Let the man do pure good and let the world be grateful for that goodness. There's too much evil in the world to wait for 'the world' to come to grips with its own humanity in the face of an 'inhuman super weapon'. Leave that stuff to Hyperion.

 

[bigboss370]

Not in the comics but for cinema its rather hard to make someone sit for an hour and stay entertained by someone too perfect. They grow to resent him. He's fictional and they didn't come here to be told to worship a fictional man. They came to be moved by someone. Thats FILM. What you described is perfect for comic books, but you literally have to make it so audiences are afraid to leave for fear something won't get answered. You can punch a million tanks to pieces, arm wrestler Darkseid, and suplex Doomsday into the Sun but it won't make him more than over glorified and irritating to an audience forced to watch him be perfect for 2 hours if you don't handle the public's reaction to him realistically. People wouldn't treat Superman in real life like they do in comics and to sell a live action movie that looks like real life you have to account for this. It comes with the territory...everything else feels out of place and campy.

Sorry but quite literally thats why comic books and cartoons are different than movies. It comes with a different way the audience perceives it and you have to account for that. You have to give them something more compelling than an ideal.

did you watch the animated Superman vs. Doomsday? He dies. Lois practically begs Superman not to go fight and he says "its why i'm here". He then proceeds to give his life to fighting Doomsday to save everyone, even falling breathless multiple times after landing his own punches because he's exhausted.

So obviously i'm not saying to make him all powerful physically, but i'm saying his mental strength and fortitude is what sets him above and apart from other heroes.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Never liked the boring, existential 'what do we do in a world with a Superman' navel gazing type stories. Or 'how does Superman fit into the big picture, and still leave enough room for us?' Those always annoyed me, because it injected to much human neuroses that you would hope Superman would be above, and that a real world would be much too busy for. People are constantly dying, disasters and crime everywhere, where does Superman fit into all of it? Saving people. How does a world deal with a Superman? By being fucking grateful that he's there. The whole coming to terms with him being an alien thing, you have a dude who flies and shoots lasers from his eyes. Frankly I'd be comforted that he was an alien, otherwise the explanations would probably be hopelessly complicated.

The old Supes kept things simple, and then at some point in time people figured simple wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough that he stood for truth and Justice, he had to worry about humanity relying on him too much, or whether or not he was the cause of all the troubles instead of a cure for some of them. Too many college grads with philosophy course credits, or writers bored with supervillain of the week or Lex Luthor stories, I guess. "Let the world turn against Superman", like that would ever happen. Don't make him as strong as God, allow for him to not be fast enough or to struggle with his duties and the "man" will make due with the Super. No need to worry about "how to cope with my inhumanity as a perfect being among such imperfect people" stories, or how does a Superman deal with a world of cynics.

Best Superman is simple. A man with great power who feels a great responsibility to help those who need him. Make him powerful, but not overpowered so he fixes everything effortlessly. He can't be everywhere at once, but he tries to be where he's needed, and he sometimes fails and has to deal with it by always doing his best. And let his greatest power be the human heart and soul underneath all of that that never gives up and never stops believing in doing what's right. All the agonizing and stuff can seem way too forced after a while.


tldr: screw how the world reacts to Superman, the world doesn't know shit, so why would they have an 'answer' for a Superman? It's not all that important, and meanwhile that Jumbo Jet is about to crash into the middle of Metropolis. Let the man do pure good and let the world be grateful for that goodness. There's too much evil in the world to wait for 'the world' to come to grips with its own humanity in the face of an 'inhuman super weapon'. Leave that stuff to Hyperion.

That's why I love All Star Superman. It explores him doing a lot of stuff as Superman... but with some very deep thoughts in them because he is dying. The ending really made me teary-eyed and that one scene with a suicidal kid really clenched my heart.

 

[Sadsic]

The Iron Giant in every way, except that it's literally Superman

 

[Log4Girlz]

Never liked the boring, existential 'what do we do in a world with a Superman' navel gazing type stories. Or 'how does Superman fit into the big picture, and still leave enough room for us?' Those always annoyed me, because it injected to much human neuroses that you would hope Superman would be above, and that a real world would be much too busy for. People are constantly dying, disasters and crime everywhere, where does Superman fit into all of it? Saving people. How does a world deal with a Superman? By being fucking grateful that he's there. The whole coming to terms with him being an alien thing, you have a dude who flies and shoots lasers from his eyes. Frankly I'd be comforted that he was an alien, otherwise the explanations would probably be hopelessly complicated.

The old Supes kept things simple, and then at some point in time people figured simple wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough that he stood for truth and Justice, he had to worry about humanity relying on him too much, or whether or not he was the cause of all the troubles instead of a cure for some of them. Too many college grads with philosophy course credits, or writers bored with supervillain of the week or Lex Luthor stories, I guess. "Let the world turn against Superman", like that would ever happen. Don't make him as strong as God, allow for him to not be fast enough or to struggle with his duties and the "man" will make due with the Super. No need to worry about "how to cope with my inhumanity as a perfect being among such imperfect people" stories, or how does a Superman deal with a world of cynics.

Best Superman is simple. A man with great power who feels a great responsibility to help those who need him. Make him powerful, but not overpowered so he fixes everything effortlessly. He can't be everywhere at once, but he tries to be where he's needed, and he sometimes fails and has to deal with it by always doing his best. And let his greatest power be the human heart and soul underneath all of that that never gives up and never stops believing in doing what's right. All the agonizing and stuff can seem way too forced after a while.


tldr: screw how the world reacts to Superman, the world doesn't know shit, so why would they have an 'answer' for a Superman? It's not all that important, and meanwhile that Jumbo Jet is about to crash into the middle of Metropolis. Let the man do pure good and let the world be grateful for that goodness. There's too much evil in the world to wait for 'the world' to come to grips with its own humanity in the face of an 'inhuman super weapon'. Leave that stuff to Hyperion.

There is something wrong with a Super hero who can destroy the entire population of a planet with absolutely no resistance.

 

[Vice]

Basically, "Superman: Secret Identity" in movie form.

Clark Kent lives in a world where super heroes are only in comic books and movies. His parents just decided to give him a horrible name; Clark Kent. He gets bullied a lot because of his name but nothing to severe.

One day he discovers he has super powers. He saves some lives during a disaster and figures he may as well toss on a Superman T-Shirt while he does. Cue a heroic montage and now he's an adult. He meets a woman named Lois, who hates Lois and Clark jokes as much as he does, and the two start dating. While this happens the government wants to get information on a man flying around claiming to be Superman.

Clark has a few run-ins with the government but eventually manages to show that he isn't a threat to them in anyway and just wants to help. He reveals his powers to Lois and they fly off. Fade to black.

 

[shaowebb]

Meh, that story is always played a lot involving Supes - on how "well he's super but he's also vulnerable crap, compared to Batman Sue!"

What I want is to show how much of an amazing character he is. That despite being Superman, his real self is Clark Kent raised by moral values of a simple farming family and inspired by his now-gone parents. That despite being pushed away by the scrutiny of people, he is able to stand up and show that he has unrivaled compassion that even Batman admits he is unable to match.



It's answered a lot - it's not the glasses, but the mannerisms, postures, etc. Not to mention the idea that "this country bumpkin can't personally be Superman!"

You can be compassionate and still have self doubt. His compassion in my eyes could fuel worries that he might do something and it goes wrong like the building thing I threw out just as an example. Having power doesn't mean you know how to fix problems. Mine rescues are delicate because pressure relief in the wrong area brings a mine down onto the heads of trapped crew. Would Superman know where to impact and how hard? No.

His compassion should be why in spite of public worry he would always be driven to keep trying. He'd win over a lot, but he'd still face all the problems I mentioned. The world wouldn't stand for an uncontrolled power that large. It would react and he would have to deal with this while still trying to be a good guy looking out for them. Thats drama. You can't just praise and glorify your hero all day and expect an Academy Award worthy story that compells audiences to care, and you can't just throw Special Effects at a film and expect it to make it have a good plot. Heroes have to struggle and heroes have to suffer. Its what makes them a hero to audiences when they overcome these things.

 

[bigboss370]

There is something wrong with a Super hero who can destroy the entire population of a planet with absolutely no resistance.

why?

 

[Log4Girlz]

I sincerely hope that at least in movies, kryptonite ceases to exist.

why?

It kinda pegs someone as overpowered, and that is bad mmmkay.

 

[akira28]

There is something wrong with a Super hero who can destroy the entire population of a planet with absolutely no resistance.

I agree, but to say that they'd have to create some Anti-Superman hit squad to ultimately fail and also show how fucking douchey we are is one assumption too many. Let Lex Luthor corrupt some govermental project with his irrational hatred of aliens. But let the rest of us be grateful that someone that powerful is so good. Let them realize how lucky they are, not be totally oblivious to it.


Also I don't believe he should have "Super-Intelligence" but he should be pretty damned smart. Certainly not a dumb brute with super powers. He can read entire books in seconds. He can remember everything he's ever seen. He just wouldn't become a douche with a British affectation because he memorized the entire University of Oxford library.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

That's why I love All Star Superman. It explores him doing a lot of stuff as Superman... but with some very deep thoughts in them because he is dying. The ending really made me teary-eyed and that one scene with a suicidal kid really clenched my heart.

Ditto.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

There is something wrong with a Super hero who can destroy the entire population of a planet with absolutely no resistance.

he's got plenty of resistance, the last time Superman was "god" level was the 1950s. quit bringing the nigh invincible crap up, it doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Boss Doggie]

You can be compassionate and still have self doubt. His compassion in my eyes could fuel worries that he might do something and it goes wrong like the building thing I threw out just as an example. Having power doesn't mean you know how to fix problems. Mine rescues are delicate because pressure relief in the wrong area brings a mine down onto the heads of trapped crew. Would Superman know where to impact and how hard? No.

His compassion should be why in spite of public worry he would always be driven to keep trying. He'd win over a lot, but he'd still face all the problems I mentioned. The world wouldn't stand for an uncontrolled power that large. It would react and he would have to deal with this while still trying to be a good guy looking out for them. Thats drama. You can't just praise and glorify your hero all day and expect an Academy Award worthy story that compells audiences to care, and you can't just throw Special Effects at a film and expect it to make it have a good plot. Heroes have to struggle and heroes have to suffer. Its what makes them a hero to audiences when they overcome these things.

And that's why I always scoff at the idea that Supes never have those problems followed by Batman circlejerk. Besides, Supes being unable to save everyone/viewed as a threat have been done a lot.

That's why up to now, I still follow the idea that there is NO Batman book better than All Star Superman.

Ditto.

<3

 

[Log4Girlz]

Ditto.

If I were Superman, I would totally push him off...then catch him just before he went splat.

he's got plenty of resistance, the last time Superman was "god" level was the 1950s. quit bringing the nigh invincible crap up, it doesn't exist anymore.

Umm, dude, all Superman has to do is like, at total random fly up a few thousand miles, then come back down at full speed. Do that a few times within the span of a few seconds and all normal humans are done.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

You can be compassionate and still have self doubt. His compassion in my eyes could fuel worries that he might do something and it goes wrong like the building thing I threw out just as an example. Having power doesn't mean you know how to fix problems. Mine rescues are delicate because pressure relief in the wrong area brings a mine down onto the heads of trapped crew. Would Superman know where to impact and how hard? No.

His compassion should be why in spite of public worry he would always be driven to keep trying. He'd win over a lot, but he'd still face all the problems I mentioned. The world wouldn't stand for an uncontrolled power that large. It would react and he would have to deal with this while still trying to be a good guy looking out for them. Thats drama. You can't just praise and glorify your hero all day and expect an Academy Award worthy story that compells audiences to care, and you can't just throw Special Effects at a film and expect it to make it have a good plot. Heroes have to struggle and heroes have to suffer. Its what makes them a hero to audiences when they overcome these things.

if there was a man who on 9/11 could catch two planes out of the sky, people would be falling over themselves for him. they'd love him unconditionally without question. he'd be the Beatles mixed with a soldier mixed with the pope.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

If I were Superman, I would totally push him off...then catch him just before he went splat.



Umm, dude, all Superman has to do is like, at total random fly up a few thousand miles, then come back down at full speed. Do that a few times within the span of a few seconds and all normal humans are done.

again, not listening or you don't feel like listening. within his world of the comic books, plenty of people who will stop him. that creates conflict which wouldn't have to nerf any of his abilities.
now you want to say that movies are a different audience, well it's a greater audience which still includes the hardcore fans and I think up until now because of technology or budgets or what have you, they obviously have to limit what one can show on screen. but i'm fairly confident that showing all that crazy shit that he can do on screen, people would be well entertained.

 

[Log4Girlz]

again, not listening or you don't feel like listening. within his world of the comic books, plenty of people who will stop him. that creates conflict which wouldn't have to nerf any of his abilities.
now you want to say that movies are a different audience, well it's a greater audience which still includes the hardcore fans and I think up until now because of technology or budgets or what have you, they obviously have to limit what one can show on screen. but i'm fairly confident that showing all that crazy shit that he can do on screen, people would be well entertained.

In the movies, Superman tends to be the only Superhero.

Anyhoo, if anyone is going to throw some crazy shit on screen, it'll be Zack Snyder. So let's see how it goes.

 

[Boss Doggie]

By the way, to those still not buying Clark Kent "disguise" (quotations because I don't consider Clark Kent his disguise), go read All Star Superman. It explains a lot of things as to why people never caught him.

 

[speedpop]

I'm still not sure where this "superman a flawed character" comes from. We've had one recent so so movie and 2 cheesy 80s cash ins with two solid movies 30 years ago. Suddenly he's boring?

I remember when Batman was boring, somewhere in between Kilmer and Clooney.

 

[shaowebb]

he's got plenty of resistance, the last time Superman was "god" level was the 1950s. quit bringing the nigh invincible crap up, it doesn't exist anymore.

He survived a nuclear onslaught to no ill effects in Kingdom Come. Plus he yanked Darkseid from the Source Wall. No weapon on Earth could effect that unless you go the whole kryptonite route which we all hate as its such a pathetic plot device to reign him in. Superman is that powerful and the public would see that. Anything that powerful would invoke various worries. Yes people respect what hes done, but lets count up some things.

He fights someone and generally throws them through a building or rips up a street or does some other stunt that shows off how strong he is in every fight.
-property damage sky rockets in the city. He does this constantly within the city too so its got to be seriously in debt and that effects its people. Bad property values, scary to live there, businesses can crumple in an environment decaying like that. He's worse than Hancock is to a city cost-wise at least

How would you feel if there was a Socialist Superman in China spouting about their way of life? Would it scare you if you weren't from China? Superman, while doing good, still unnerves the rest of the world for being a patriot. He's an unspoken gun aimed at the head of anyone elses way of life. Whoever we side with is right by those standards. Who would oppose a nation like that? Eventually you'd have to try to pacify every country on Earth to keep this cold war from going too far.


Superman can work in comic books that take 10 minutes per issue to read but if you make an audience have to sit with him in a world for 2 hours you have to deal with the world he lives in and how they interact. If you don't tackle this theres no real drama or character there. All you have is a cape and an action sequence.

if there was a man who on 9/11 could catch two planes out of the sky, people would be falling over themselves for him. they'd love him unconditionally without question. he'd be the Beatles mixed with a soldier mixed with the pope.

And I'm not arguing that, but how would you make a story out of watching everyone celebrate his every move? You mention us having the technology to really show what he can do on screen. I'm for that. I even mentioned I'd want it because I want to incorporate the fight scenes and the disaster scenes and him flying around and such in some of the ideas I threw out. However, thats not enough to call it a story. Thats just an action sequence. If we do a non stop praise and action film then its going to hit casuals for a few films and fans to a varying degree based on how strong an emphasis each comic book fan of Superman puts on story in their comics. However, if you incorporate the real world faults of those having to deal with a world with Superman and his struggles trying to please them during all of this then you have the drama to really push a story with all this tragedy and selfless attempts to do the right thing in spite of how flawed somethings may have turned out to become a story that really sticks with people.

Superman directly dealt with the emotions of the public and how everyone perceived both him and the world around them in All Star Superman. Im only asking him to do the same in a film that doesn't have to hang the idea of him being sick on the audience from the onset. The public is never unified in its perception of a person or their deeds. You show that and his attempts to just try and meet everyones standards and do the right thing and struggle to do it...well you'll have a film.

 

[Boss Doggie]

^That's why you do untypical Superman movies like Red Son or All Star.

Also read this up on Superman Disguise: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ClarkKenting

Love this quip:

Green Lantern: Clark hides behind a pair of glasses and you're worrying about me?
Flash: Clark slouches, wears clothes two sizes too big, and raises his voice an octave.

 

[Log4Girlz]

By the way, to those still not buying Clark Kent "disguise" (quotations because I don't consider Clark Kent his disguise), go read All Star Superman. It explains a lot of things as to why people never caught him.

I'm reading the wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Star_Superman

Umm, is the plot described accurate to the comic?

 

[Boss Doggie]

I'm reading the wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Star_Superman

Umm, is the plot described accurate to the comic?

Well it's kinda hard to tell - I suggest reading the comic or at least looking up on other sites, but it gets the gist that Superman is dying by "overloading".

 

[Laughing Banana]

It's answered a lot - it's not the glasses, but the mannerisms, postures, etc. Not to mention the idea that "this country bumpkin can't personally be Superman!"

Aw come on. Wear a glasses, then take off your glasses. Does your friends/work colleagues will think of you who wear glasses and you who don't as two completely different person altogether even if you change your posture/mannerism or whatever? Especially iconsidering that you meet your friends/colleagues every day and lots of times. That is ridiculous.

I always figured that Superman just did his shit real fast, and no one could take a good picture of the guy. Whenever he needed to "pause" he would vibrate just enough to blur himself out. Eventually, when a clear picture is taken, he has to deal with the fall out. In my version of Superman he inevitably finds himself in a situation where he must rescue Louis. Well, that's a prime opportunity for her to get a good look at his face and recognize him.

That is silly, but I suppose it's not out of the "superhero silly" I guess..... Waay a stretch of an explanation, though.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

He survived a nuclear onslaught to no ill effects in Kingdom Come. Plus he yanked Darkseid from the Source Wall. No weapon on Earth could effect that unless you go the whole kryptonite route which we all hate as its such a pathetic plot device to reign him in. Superman is that powerful and the public would see that. Anything that powerful would invoke various worries. Yes people respect what hes done, but lets count up some things.

He fights someone and generally throws them through a building or rips up a street or does some other stunt that shows off how strong he is in every fight.
-property damage sky rockets in the city. He does this constantly within the city too so its got to be seriously in debt and that effects its people. Bad property values, scary to live there, businesses can crumple in an environment decaying like that. He's worse than Hancock is to a city cost-wise at least

How would you feel if there was a Socialist Superman in China spouting about their way of life? Would it scare you if you weren't from China? Superman, while doing good, still unnerves the rest of the world for being a patriot. He's an unspoken gun aimed at the head of anyone elses way of life. Whoever we side with is right by those standards. Who would oppose a nation like that? Eventually you'd have to try to pacify every country on Earth to keep this cold war from going too far.

Superman can work in comic books that take 10 minutes per issue to read but if you make an audience have to sit with him in a world for 2 hours you have to deal with the world he lives in and how they interact. If you don't tackle this theres no real drama or character there. All you have is a cape and an action sequence.

but they've never put in the silver screen the plenty of threats he has faced that can kill him. Superman is the strongest hero out there, but the idea that he can't be beat has not existed for a good 40 years (in the 70s they did a major re-boot) superman isn't about pushing his beliefs on anyone, he's about helping everyone equally. he's a savior. I think it would make for a more interesting film if he fights his equal (Zod, Darkseid, Brainiac, etc) and Superman gets to glimpse what happens to someone who uses those powers to corrupt and hurt. that way everyone gets something out fo the film, story and action. i

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Aw come on. Wear a glasses, then take off your glasses. Does your friends/work colleagues will think of you who wear glasses and you who don't as two completely different person altogether even when you change your posture/mannerism or whatever? That is ridiculous.



That is silly, but I suppose it's not out of the "superhero silly" I guess.....

but you only think of who Superman is because you are standing from the outside reading the story, if you were a person living in that world, would you really give two shits who superman was? no. and nobody would ever think that a powerful man would be "hiding" like he does. a lot people all over the world look alike, it doesn't mean anything.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I would definitely be interested in seeing Superman being treated as a god. Something along the lines of Dr. Manhattan, only with a greater sense of curiosity/empathy toward the human race.

 

[shaowebb]

but they've never put in the silver screen the plenty of threats he has faced that can kill him. Superman is the strongest hero out there, but the idea that he can't be beat has not existed for a good 40 years (in the 70s they did a major re-boot) superman isn't about pushing his beliefs on anyone, he's about helping everyone equally. he's a savior. I think it would make for a more interesting film if he fights his equal (Zod, Darkseid, Brainiac, etc) and Superman gets to glimpse what happens to someone who uses those powers to corrupt and hurt. that way everyone gets something out fo the film, story and action. i

I already said both story and action can be done this way NUMEROUS TIMES, and mentioned that he doesn't push himself on anyone. But he does say he stands for truth justice and the American way. He doesn't have to explain that. Heck you could even take out the classic quote and he doesn't have to say anything. The thing is perception is 9/10ths of belief and everyone sees things differently. He doesn't have to say a word for people to fear him. He simply has to exist. No need to push beliefs on anyone at all, but they'll worry all the same.

 

[akira28]

I think it would make for a more interesting film if he fights his equal (Zod, Darkseid, Brainiac, etc) and Superman gets to glimpse what happens to someone who uses those powers to corrupt and hurt. that way everyone gets something out fo the film, story and action. i

^this

don't waste a whole movie demonstrating how lame humanity gets when they can't hang. People in China would love Superman because he saves them from broken dams and nuclear meltdowns. Only the government would call him a capitalist pig, and of course the only fact supporting that would be that he hangs out in America a lot. He's still seen all over the world saving people, and if they did away with that 'and the American way' bit(which they did), few would miss it.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Aw come on. Wear a glasses, then take off your glasses. Does your friends/work colleagues will think of you who wear glasses and you who don't as two completely different person altogether even if you change your posture/mannerism or whatever? Especially iconsidering that you meet your friends/colleagues every day and lots of times. That is ridiculous.

That is silly, but I suppose it's not out of the "superhero silly" I guess..... Waay a stretch of an explanation, though.

But again, it's not JUST the glasses. It's the posture, the hairdo, the mannerisms, the tone. You'd be surprised how those factors do change a perception of another person. Also note of the human nature NOT to associate famous people to the ones near them.

I really suggest reading that TVTropes entry and All Star Superman. Sure, you might see that it "seems" stupid, but that's because you're the audience. In real life it's actually different when it happens to them.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I already said both story and action can be done this way NUMEROUS TIMES, and mentioned that he doesn't push himself on anyone. But he does say he stands for truth justice and the American way. He doesn't have to explain that. Heck you could even take out the classic quote and he doesn't have to say anything. The thing is perception is 9/10ths of belief and everyone sees things differently. He doesn't have to say a word for people to fear him. He simply has to exist. No need to push beliefs on anyone at all, but they'll worry all the same.

sorry, I don't see it. it makes for an interesting film... for a while. but I'm pretty sure that if someone is working their asses off trying to make the world a better place most normal will come around and like the guy. but I seriously do not want to see Superman get nerfed. there is no need for that. plenty of stories where we can have both the super and the man.

 

[shaowebb]

I'll pose a few questions to those of you who are down on the idea of showing how the world would see Superman in the light I propose which is very realistic.

In your ideas for Superman just how much of what you said has centered around him just fighting someone really powerful? How much of what you are actually proposing for a film has any natural progression of theme, characters, motive, plot, and such all leading into the rising action, climax and fall? How much of what you propose is just who he should fight and the how he should win?

You're all fans. So am I, and so are those people who would go to see a film. But they are also fans of seeing good films and not just action. We all deserve to be respected by the box office in their portrayal of the character, his villains, his world, and his struggles, but you have to know when to admit when you don't have something that fits the form of media you plan to release it in. Most of this needs more story added to it. I simply propose doing it in a manner that works and doesn't rob anyone of realism.

sorry, I don't see it. it makes for an interesting film... for a while. but I'm pretty sure that if someone is working their asses off trying to make the world a better place most normal will come around and like the guy. but I seriously do not want to see Superman get nerfed. there is no need for that. plenty of stories where we can have both the super and the man.

Again and again I'll say it. I am not proposing a nerf. He is just as powerful as ever, but I am proposing that the world be portrayed in a realistic manner. This is how things would be perceived with someone that powerful. Its not nerfing him in any way to admit something that powerful is unnerving no matter how it acts.

 

[Log4Girlz]

But again, it's not JUST the glasses. It's the posture, the hairdo, the mannerisms, the tone. You'd be surprised how those factors do change a perception of another person. Also note of the human nature NOT to associate famous people to the ones near them.

Its still hilariously bad man.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

A thread about Superman and no Krypt0nion? Failed thread.

 

[Pickles the Firecat]

Just his posture is a massive difference. You start talking about his mannerisms, habits, and general personality? Nobody would ever think Clark Kent was Superman. He's a large, dopish farm boy who trips over his own feet and stutters conducting interviews. Superman is the Man of Steel. Superman and Clark Kent are at events simultaneously. And even if they aren't, why would anyone--ever--think that Superman has a secret identity? Nobody would bother trying to find out who Superman is. He's Superman! He's not hiding an identity! Clark is the guy in your office that has Superman's picture posted over his employee of the month plaque as a joke.

 

[Boss Doggie]

Oh and All Star Superman pulls a very good one regarding to "what happens to other people when they gain Superman's powers".

Spoiler

Lex suddenly sees the world with Superman's view after being granted with Superman's powers. At first he was the typical madman, but then slowly he sees the molecules, the particles, and a lot of stuff that suddenly took his breath. The way he saw the world made him realize now why Superman acts like that.

Its still hilariously bad man.

What's so bad when it's believable and logical? Really, GAF sometimes amuses me on their lack of understanding.

Just his posture is a massive difference. You start talking about his mannerisms, habits, and general personality? Nobody would ever think Clark Kent was Superman. He's a large, dopish farm boy who trips over his own feet and stutters conducting interviews. Superman is the Man of Steel.

Exactly. A lot of people assume it's hard because they are the audience, but the same things happen in real life.

 

[akira28]

image integrity. I'm not interested in watching Superman in today's real world. Not one bit. Not unless he was trying to take it over and I was trying to help. But the world you create with a Superman in it, it can be realistic and gritty, and have more New York than Metropolis to it. But the world you're mentioning doesn't deserve a Superman.

Where's the crux between telling a good story and having a story that's good enough to tell? Superman trying to save a world that love/hates him isn't a movie I'd pay to see. I don't need to see him "winning over" ever person who ever fell off of a bridge.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

I'll pose a few questions to those of you who are down on the idea of showing how the world would see Superman in the light I propose which is very realistic.

In your ideas for Superman just how much of what you said has centered around him just fighting someone really powerful? How much of what you are actually proposing for a film has any natural progression of theme, characters, motive, plot, and such all leading into the rising action, climax and fall? How much of what you propose is just who he should fight and the how he should win?

You're all fans. So am I, and so are those people who would go to see a film. But they are also fans of seeing good films and not just action. We all deserve to be respected by the box office in their portrayal of the character, his villains, his world, and his struggles, but you have to know when to admit when you don't have something that fits the form of media you plan to release it in. Most of this needs more story added to it. I simply propose doing it in a manner that works and doesn't rob anyone of realism.


Again and again I'll say it. I am not proposing a nerf. He is just as powerful as ever, but I am proposing that the world be portrayed in a realistic manner. This is how things would be perceived with someone that powerful. Its not nerfing him in any way to admit something that powerful is unnerving no matter how it acts.

well I would like to see a film about a "false prophet".
we know superman can solve lots of our world's problems. a bit of kryptonian tech can fix the environment or world hunger or a bunch of other stuff.
not to mention all the conflicts superman can resolve by himself either through force or diplomacy.
Superman has always refused to outright do that because he wouldn;t want people too dependent on him and not do things themselves. what if someone like a brainiac or Zod or whoever came along that was just as smart and strong as superman and stated turning people against superman just by going for these quick solutions? maybe it makes superman doubt his mission? i'd have to think about this one, it's late and I am tired...

Its still hilariously bad man.

hush you.

A thread about Superman and Krypt0nion? Failed thread.

well it is late.....

 

[Log4Girlz]

Oh and All Star Superman pulls a very good one regarding to "what happens to other people when they gain Superman's powers".

Spoiler

Lex suddenly sees the world with Superman's view after being granted with Superman's powers. At first he was the typical madman, but then slowly he sees the molecules, the particles, and a lot of stuff that suddenly took his breath. The way he saw the world made him realize now why Superman acts like that.

What's so bad when it's believable and logical? Really, GAF sometimes amuses me on their lack of understanding.



Exactly. A lot of people assume it's hard because they are the audience, but the same things happen in real life.

I love how he's still like 350 pounds of muscle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYAFtpYhjyQ

This is Ronnie Coleman transforming into a totally different human being. Its shocking.

 

[shaowebb]

What's so bad when it's believable and logical? Really, GAF sometimes amuses me on their lack of understanding.

Yeah I'm actually for the whole Clark Kent disguise. Like I said perception is 9/10ths of reality or belief. Remember that guy who dressed as Marilyn Manson and ran around for awhile and the pappazi was all over him. He was a fake, but he looked a lot like the guy and was acting like him on purpose so they believed he was someone else. Folks look a lot alike all the time, but acting like a complete dope who jumps at his own shadow, always shows up after disaster nearly pissing his pants scared from under a desk, who stutters, stumbles, knocks over his pencils every time he reaches for his coffee and who slouches and looks a slob....well you get the point.

You can look like anyone. Everyone looks like someone. Its how you present yourself that determines who you are. My response to being the man of steel if I was him and someone said that, " Oh man I wish! " then act as horribly awkward as possible while talking to them. In their bubble too close. Show too much upper tooth and gumline when I small. Pick in my ear occasionally when I'm thinking about things. Drop stuff. I wouldn't overplay it to that degree, but I'd run through a couple of social dufus routines on them. No one would want to think such a person is their hero. It'd be the let down of a lifetime...thats why it would WORK.

well I would like to see a film about a "false prophet".
we know superman can solve lots of our world's problems. a bit of kryptonian tech can fix the environment or world hunger or a bunch of other stuff.
not to mention all the conflicts superman can resolve by himself either through force or diplomacy.
Superman has always refused to outright do that because he wouldn;t want people too dependent on him and not do things themselves. what if someone like a brainiac or Zod or whoever came along that was just as smart and strong as superman and stated turning people against superman just by going for these quick solutions? maybe it makes superman doubt his mission? i'd have to think about this one, it's late and I am tired...

Yeah it really is late. I've enjoyed the debate though with everyone. I'm gonna turn in, but at least we all got a feel for what the man of steel would have to be at the cinema to try and appeal to everyone. In short...a lot.

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Yeah I'm actually for the whole Clark Kent disguise. Like I said perception is 9/10ths of reality or belief. Remember that guy who dressed as Marilyn Manson and ran around for awhile and the pappazi was all over him. He was a fake, but he looked a lot like the guy and was acting like him on purpose so they believed he was someone else. Folks look a lot alike all the time, but acting like a complete dope who jumps at his own shadow, always shows up after disaster nearly pissing his pants scared from under a desk, who stutters, stumbles, knocks over his pencils every time he reaches for his coffee and who slouches and looks a slob....well you get the point.

You can look like anyone. Everyone looks like someone. Its how you present yourself that determines who you are. My response to being the man of steel if I was him and someone said that, " Oh man I wish! " then act as horribly awkward as possible while talking to them. In their bubble too close. Show too much upper tooth and gumline when I small. Pick in my ear occasionally when I'm thinking about things. Drop stuff. I wouldn't overplay it to that degree, but I'd run through a couple of social dufus routines on them. No one would want to think such a person is their hero. It'd be the let down of a lifetime...thats why it would WORK.

...................you just picked your nose and are trying to play it off like you didn't, that's gross. i'd rather die burning in this building, kthxbye.

 

[Boss Doggie]

I love how he's still like 350 pounds of muscle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYAFtpYhjyQ

This is Ronnie Coleman transforming into a totally different human being. Its shocking.

He wears loose clothes to offset his build, as stated before. Also technically speaking Supes is muscular but not bodybuilder style.