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[PixelatedBeast]

You're welcome to stop playing them and go back to jerking off to the next souls clone on your overpriced 5090 if mindless action is what you crave.

 

[viveks86]

These are absolutely tiny fractions of games that have several hours of varied and fun gameplay. I think it helps ground characters where they aren’t always adventuring, killing, shooting or solving puzzles. The boring down time elevates the exciting moments. But yeah, they should definitely have ways to speed through them for the second playthrough at least, if not the first. And of course, there is a lot of room for better writing. Like Ellie carrying the baby around, enjoying the views and herding sheep was phenomenal compared to the examples in the OP.

 

[MacReady13]

All depends on how it’s done.

For uncharted 4, it was important for their characters and development.

Wrong (IMO). There are plenty of other ways to develop characters. Sony think that slow, boring, talking sections are what gamers want. Wrong. I fail to see how cleaning up MJ’s apartment does anything for either character in the game, apart from boring the shit out of me.

 

[existensmaximum]

I understand what they're going for but what I can't understand is why they often make these kind of sections so uninteresting. If they at least told us something meaningful or interesting about the story or characters? Often it's just a complete waste of time that doesn't add to the mood, story, feeling, character development or whatever.

 

[kevboard]

I decided to give Spider-Man 2 another shot. I figured maybe it gets better later on. In comes the part where I have to meet up with MJ at Peter's house. I'm forced into doing house chores like picking up trash I need to throw away while they reminisce about stuff I don't care about. It goes on and on and on. Next, I have to go upstairs and find some hidey-hole behind a frame on Peter's wall. This excruciating section finally ends after a bit more vapid dialogue. Fine, I'm ready to play as Spider-Man again. Nope. Enter Harry and he has me bike with him to their old school to find a USB thumb drive. I'm forced into a terrible "stealth" section where all I do is avoid some stupid security guard. It once again drags on and I have to repeat the exercise several times. Is it done? Nope. I gotta shoot hoops with Harry in the gymnasium

and then you get into regular missions and all you do is press button prompts that the game tells you to press.

it's such a deeply flawed game. it's legitimately insane how badly designed it is. it's the most lazily designed video game you could ever make.
barely any systemic interactions, everything is context sensitive so that the devs can just script everything (less actual level design needed), and not for even 1 second are you allowed to have a unique thought while playing. it's all laid out to you. Press X, Press L2/R2, Press Triangle, Press Circle... it's insane... it is IN...SANE... how bad it is.

 

[Yoboman]

The problem lies within the second playthrough.

First playthrough matters far more

 

[Killjoy-NL]

Don't buy those games then. Pretty simple.

I don't necessarily mind them and it's often part of character building while keeping the player engaged.

Unless people prefer everything to be skippable cut-scenes (or when you can fast-forward through conversations) like Monster Hunter Wilds and then complain about shit stories.
Or games with unskippable cut-scenes and then have people complain about that.

Devs should just stick to whatever they think is best, because there will always be people crying over whatever decision has been made.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Certain games are more egregious than others, but honestly Spiderman 2 has pretty awesome pacing. Yeah, there’s mundane sections there but they’re minutes long, not nearly an hour like in some games.

Surprised you have this nit picky of a view because there are far worse offenders like metaphor and persona …like the entire game has massive hours long sections of you doing nothing but repetitive mundane things

 

[March Climber]

First playthrough matters far more

Never said it didn't.

The problem lies with devs not adding a simple 'skip moment' button for the second time around. It's why I prefer full-on cutscenes, like my two examples above. I'd rather people whine and make jokes like 'is this a movie or a game' over the alternative which is what OP is describing.

Edit:

In Resident Evil 3 Remake and Resident Evil 4 Remake, two games that encourage and reward speed running and multiple playthroughs with rewards and bonuses, they both decide to leave in the small sections of the game that slow it to an absolute crawl.

Edit:

Generic read above.

 

[Senua]

You're welcome to stop playing them and go back to jerking off to the next souls clone on your overpriced 5090 if mindless action is what you crave.

 

[Banjo64]

You're welcome to stop playing them and go back to jerking off to the next souls clone on your overpriced 5090 if mindless action is what you crave.

Hmm mindless action or brainless dialogue. Tough choice. Not.

 

[Raven117]

Wrong (IMO). There are plenty of other ways to develop characters. Sony think that slow, boring, talking sections are what gamers want. Wrong. I fail to see how cleaning up MJ’s apartment does anything for either character in the game, apart from boring the shit out of me.

Did I say anything about that?

I said it depends how it’s done. That one sucked. As did all of GoW:R.

I liked the U4 one.

 

[Soodanim]

It's not limited to Sony.

Resident Evil 8 starts you downstairs in a home with the objective of putting the baby to bed. And you do this sloooowly. Slowly walk round to and then up the stairs, then watch the baby be put in the cot and the baby monitor turned on, then slowly walk back downstairs.

This is all fine one time if you're into the story, but Capcom seem to completely ignore repeat play-throughs when they design their games despite encouraging it.

3 Remake was bad for a different reason. You start in a room in first person doing slow things, but they make that very quick to get through. The boring bit is when you just want to get past the scripted stuff that follows and you're jumping between <10s (often less than 5s) segments of running forward "gameplay" between cutscenes. After the first time it turns into a combination of boring and annoying. Let me skip the whole thing.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

It's miscalculated dynamism. They want their action scenes to pop and wow, but if it's all action all the time, it gets boring. So they make sections that are intended to reset the energy and go overboard making jt mind-numbingly boring.

Go play Doom Eternal.

The game is pure fun from beginning to end.

Most games are fucking boring.

Useless dialogue.

Forced walking.

Pointless open world travel.

 

[GymWolf]

People shitting on gow ragnarock for the angrboring section and liking the absolute bore fest that is 80% of unchy4 never failed to make me chuckle.

I'm usually ok with slow moments for some character introspection or to break out from combat for a moment, but they had to be well written and writing in sony games has been very hit and miss in the past years.

It's also a matter of how long the game is, i don't crucify 50-100 hours games if they have 2-3 hours of slow moments, my attention span is not that limited like people who need action ever 30 sec.

But in a 10-20 hours game wasting 1\4 of the game time on boring shit is no bueno.

Btw, it's hardly a sony thing only.

 

[Gaiff]

Certain games are more egregious than others, but honestly Spiderman 2 has pretty awesome pacing. Yeah, there’s mundane sections there but they’re minutes long, not nearly an hour like in some games.

Surprised you have this nit picky of a view because there are far worse offenders like metaphor and persona …like the entire game has massive hours long sections of you doing nothing but repetitive mundane things

Persona games are basically visual novels/video games. That’d be like complaining about a puzzle game having too many puzzles. However, one could complain there are too many puzzles in Zelda games (and I’ve seen that complaint). Same way I wouldn’t complain about cutscenes in Life is Strange or Until Dawn.

Also, they sometimes do go overboard with the incessant dialogue and repetition. That they explain the metaverse every single time to every new party member is incredibly annoying.

 

[Xtib81]

It's not like those sequences last half an hour. I don't mind them if they're short.

 

[GymWolf]

Persona games are basically visual novels/video games. That’d be like complaining about a puzzle game having too many puzzles. However, one could complain there are too many puzzles in Zelda games (and I’ve seen that complaint). Same way I wouldn’t complain about cutscenes in Life is Strange or Until Dawn.

persona 5 many times go overboard with being too talkative, characters repeat concepts at nauseum, they are hardly perfect or excusable just because of the genre.

The yakuza games sometimes suffer from this aswell.

Japanese devs don't have any summarizing skill, just look at fucking death stranding where characters repeat the same cringe shit 10x times more than it is needed.

 

[TrebleShot]

They are increasingly boring, because they are just there and dont offer up anything new or exciting anymore.
I remember when we got these originally in some games and they were impressive often showing big set pieces and had strong story moments that were well acted.

Now its mostly a few lines with terrible voice acting and often are self indulgent. For example anything in Horizon FW is so trite and boring, I almost always switch off on my phone.

Its not just the typical ones either, KCD2 is full of extended dialogue sequences and never ending quests that it becomes a chore to play.

I want a handful of well crafted and obvious side quests and then you can have a few basic "go here go there" quests that are QUICK and focus on gameplay and reward you well.

I am sick of hundreds of side content quests that give you nothing and have the worst voice lines known to man. In fact dont even voice them, just have subtitles I can skip through and get to the point.

There are only a few creatives who can get away with it, Kojima and Naughty Dog as they generally have something either interesting to experience or decent acting.

I dont need this shit in my monster hunting game or open world sandboxes.

 

[GymWolf]

and then you get into regular missions and all you do is press button prompts that the game tells you to press.

it's such a deeply flawed game. it's legitimately insane how badly designed it is. it's the most lazily designed video game you could ever make.
barely any systemic interactions, everything is context sensitive so that the devs can just script everything (less actual level design needed), and not for even 1 second are you allowed to have a unique thought while playing. it's all laid out to you. Press X, Press L2/R2, Press Triangle, Press Circle... it's insane... it is IN...SANE... how bad it is.

Can't tell if this is sarcasm or if you agree with him

BRAVO!

 

[Gaiff]

persona 5 many times go overboard with being too talkative, characters repeat concepts at nauseum, they are hardly perfect or excusable just because of the genre.

The yakuza games sometimes suffer from this aswell.

Japanese devs don't have any summarizing skill, just look at fucking death stranding where characters repeat the same cringe shit 10x times more than it is needed.

That’s true for Persona. Sometimes it does drag on for a lot longer than it should. Actually, not just sometimes, a lot of the time.

 

[GymWolf]

That’s true for Persona. Sometimes it does drag on for a lot longer than it should. Actually, not just sometimes, a lot of the time.

Same for yakuza, i love these games but sometimes the characters talk and talk and talk without actually saying much

 

[GymWolf]

Go play Doom Eternal.

The game is pure fun from beginning to end.

Most games are fucking boring.

Useless dialogue.

Forced walking.

Pointless open world travel.

I mean that game is a pure fps and has forced platforming sections that a lot of people hate, no game is perfect, eternal especially is very controversial because it introduced stuff that goes in the way of just pure mindless shooting of doom2016 or older games.

We had multiple topics on gaf about that.

 

[CompleteGlobalSaturation]

I mean that game is a pure fps and has forced platforming sections that a lot of people hate, no game is perfect.

The platforming lasts 10 seconds at most.

The endless monologuing in most games goes on for eternity.

 

[Gaiff]

Go play Doom Eternal.

The game is pure fun from beginning to end.

Most games are fucking boring.

Useless dialogue.

Forced walking.

Pointless open world travel.

Already played through it and 2016 3 times.

 

[TintoConCasera]

Yeah that shit is terrible, specially when it fucks up with the pacing or when the writters don't have a clue of how to write interesting dialog.

People have mentioned Yakuza but at least in those games you are the one in control of the pacing, being able to choose between story, side missions, minigames and what not. In more linear games, those long walk + talk sequences can really be a problem. It's a videogame, not a movie.

 

[RetroGamingUK]

 

[GymWolf]

The platforming lasts 10 seconds at most.

The endless monologuing in most games goes on for eternity.

Maybe they were not annoying to you but they were annoying to many other people, i heard way too many times people shitting on eternal platforming to really assest if it was a real problem or not.

Exactly like you have people liking the pace of unchy4 and people shitting on it in this very topic.

 

[GymWolf]

Yeah that shit is terrible, specially when it fucks up with the pacing or when the writters don't have a clue of how to write interesting dialog.

People have mentioned Yakuza but at least in those games you are the one in control of the pacing, being able to choose between story, side missions, minigames and what not. In more linear games, those long walk + talk sequences can really be a problem. It's a videogame, not a movie.

Yeah no, there is no control of pace when during the main mission characters speak for 30 min to say stuff that could be said in 5 min.

Ragnarock is big and sandboxy, sp2 is an open world, you can roam the map and fight enemies for 50 hours straight so almost every game that is not super linear make you control the pace somehow, but when you are locked into main missions you have no decisional power, you skip cutscene or endure the talking.

Unless you skip cutscene you have to listen to all of that and they are not always THAT interesting.

 

[MacReady13]

I mean that game is a pure fps and has forced platforming sections that a lot of people hate, no game is perfect, eternal especially is very controversial because it introduced stuff that goes in the way of just pure mindless shooting of doom2016 or older games.

We had multiple topics on gaf about that.

I’m not as big a fan of Eternal as some are BUT, he’s right in that the game is just pure fucking gameplay. No bullshit stopping and wasting time. It’s what video games should be. We are PLAYING games, not watching films. A game, if it’s smart, is able to develop characters on the run during gameplay instead of slowing down and stopping shit.

 

[GymWolf]

I’m not as big a fan of Eternal as some are BUT, he’s right in that the game is just pure fucking gameplay. No bullshit stopping and wasting time. It’s what video games should be. We are PLAYING games, not watching films. A game, if it’s smart, is able to develop characters on the run during gameplay instead of slowing down and stopping shit.

Like i said in another post, any sandboxy\open world let you roam the map and kill enemies for 50 hours straight if you want to do that, even stuff like sp2 can be non-stop action for as much as you want it to be.

If there is a thing i love about open worlds is the ability to precisely pace the game as you want, mmm now i want some combat, let's just roam the map and clear camps of enemies or just kill enemies in the open world, mmm now i want to hear some bullshit from maryjane, let's do some story mission etc.

The problem the op is speaking of is way more severe in short, stricted 10-20 hours games that don't let you roam around, for sandboxy and open worlds the problem is way less severe because you decide when you want story or combat or exploration, it is not forced on you.

 

[Mephisto40]

Rather have some mundane sections in a video game rather than a video game that is completely mundane from start to finish

 

[Pedro Motta]

I kinda like em, because I have a brain.

 

[Spiral1407]

The only walkie talkie games I can stomach are RDR2 and Uncharted 4. The rest absolutely bore me to death, especially new GoW and TLOU.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Personally, I find somber moments between crazy action sequences to be a better part of Sony games in general.

 

[Generic]

I consider this an issue that stemmed from too many people complaining about extremely long cutscenes during the PS360 generation. Kojipro and Square Enix were most guilty of this.

Both of your examples would simply be shown through nice camera work and cinematography. Now devs try to make you 'play' through cutscenes as much as possible to make a game feel more interactive and less like you're watching a movie, which in turn also helps the developer save on budget.

But these cutscenes were skippables. Make the longest cutscenes ever, just make sure players can skip them

 

[Three]

You remember them, absolutely sleep-inducing parts such as the diving section in Uncharted 4 or the one where you're in the house and have to fetch dinner for Elena after Drake exposes his midlife crisis.

I think you kind of missed the point of those sections. The entire point was to give you that feeling of being stuck doing a job and the boring home life and him yearning for adventure again in his loft. Its a pretty short section in the grand scheme of things and was actually interesting in letting you live out his now mundane life and knowing why he betrayed Elena for that life again.

 

[Senua]

The entire point was to give you that feeling of being stuck doing a job and the boring home life

Based Druckmann.

 

[Ogbert]

Just stop buying AAA games.

They're almost all shit.

Stick to roguelikes, indie games and Souls.

 

[justiceiro]

I kinda get it, but this is just developers trying to come up for a solution for exposure in games. Astro bot don't need it because there is no dialogue on that game.

Besides, cutscenes were worse because there used to be loading for cutscenes too. Also, if the dialogue happens while you are playing a tense gameplay moment, you will simply miss what they talked about.

Nobody needs to get fired over it. Maybe let's remove the op power of creating new threads based on this blunder.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I kinda like em, because I have a brain.

The same dumbasses that laugh at this, say they love Hellblade 2. What a joke.

 

[xenosys]

i was like "i have the motivation to play some videogames" i fire up Persona 5, then i was reading dialog for 2 Hours....
2 HOURS!!!!

This is why the Persona games are niche titles that won't appeal to a lot of different demographics, but if you're going into an Atlus game thinking your experience is going to consist of mostly bombastic gameplay, you're playing the wrong games. Like 99% of JRPG's out there, they are VERY story and character heavy.

I kinda get it, but this is just developers trying to come up for a solution for exposure in games. Astro bot don't need it because there is no dialogue on that game.

Besides, cutscenes were worse because there used to be loading for cutscenes too. Also, if the dialogue happens while you are playing a tense gameplay moment, you will simply miss what they talked about.

It's a fine balance for sure, but yes, Astro Bot in this case is a poor example for others in this thread to use because it's gameplay-heavy and the story and dialogue isn't pertinent to the quality of the overall experience. A bit like playing a Souls game.

Combining story-related dialogue into gameplay segments is usually the way to go but in those sections, you need to be able to make the gameplay elements not so mundane that you're snoozing and losing interest, but just exciting enough that you're still able to pay attention to what's been said between characters without your attention being drawn elsewhere.

 

[Esppiral]

I do like those sections, come at me.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

It's probably not one person but a group of idiots who feel that people actually enjoy those sections. You remember them, absolutely sleep-inducing parts such as the diving section in Uncharted 4 or the one where you're in the house and have to fetch dinner for Elena after Drake exposes his midlife crisis.

I decided to give Spider-Man 2 another shot. I figured maybe it gets better later on. In comes the part where I have to meet up with MJ at Peter's house. I'm forced into doing house chores like picking up trash I need to throw away while they reminisce about stuff I don't care about. It goes on and on and on. Next, I have to go upstairs and find some hidey-hole behind a frame on Peter's wall. This excruciating section finally ends after a bit more vapid dialogue. Fine, I'm ready to play as Spider-Man again. Nope. Enter Harry and he has me bike with him to their old school to find a USB thumb drive. I'm forced into a terrible "stealth" section where all I do is avoid some stupid security guard. It once again drags on and I have to repeat the exercise several times. Is it done? Nope. I gotta shoot hoops with Harry in the gymnasium.

Got fed up, turned that shit off. I probably spent 30 minutes between cutscenes, picking up trash, and listening to characters rambling.

Why do they keep doing this? It's not just Spider-Man either. In God of War Ragnarok, you're often forced into long walking sections and the first two hours of the game move at a glacial pace. The Atreus sections in Asgard, the dreaded Ironwood, and more. Why am I in Asgard and listening to Odin going on about his daily routine? Am I not playing God of War? In TLOU Part I, same shit at the start of the game. You walk with Tess and almost nothing happens for the first hour. You just go from place to place listening to boring shit. Just put this in a cutscene I can skip. It's like someone realized gamers hate long cutscenes, so what's their solution? Make them interactive! Except it's the same thing but worse because you cannot just skip them. You have to relive them every time. You push the stick to walk at a snail's pace. Instead of Drake just opening the fridge himself to get the food, you have to do it and actually look at what's inside and pick this up yourself. Why interrupt me shooting and fighting to do that?

They really need to stop this.

On the plus side, I finished Astro Bot which has none of that nonsense and is a million times better.

In The last of us part 2, where you are in the religious site.... It's the biggest stupidity of the game...

I hate that part.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

It's miscalculated dynamism. They want their action scenes to pop and wow, but if it's all action all the time, it gets boring. So they make sections that are intended to reset the energy and go overboard making jt mind-numbingly boring.

Vanquish, Ninja Gaiden, FEAR, It's action all the time and they're great.

 

[Heimdall_Xtreme]

Why aren't all action moves not just two hours of car explosions, over the top fist fights and crashing buildings?

Mad máx Fury Road had that and was nominated for an Oscar because it's great.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Slow walk and chats are the absolute worst modern gaming trope.

I dont see how its worse than standing still and talking to an NPC

 

[64gigabyteram]

They are much better than Puzzles. Puzzles should be skippable in every single game. Fuck them.

<50iq?

 

[RoboFu]

It's because there are metrics that all games need to pass to make them more " marketable " according to the bs consultants everyone uses and one of those metrics is " length ". And a lot of you guys are cry babies it's about length.. sooo

 

[Three]

Vanquish, Ninja Gaiden, FEAR, It's action all the time and they're great.

In fear you turn into a PTZ camera through sections of the game where you have to listen to people babbling. It's the same thing but with even less interactivity.