I think the singular thing that makes me want to leave America is the health care costs. Granted, I'm not ill and I'm insured under my dad, but goddamn the system we have seems painfully corrupt, and I'd rather not be a victim to this system. I've considered leaving the country when I'm 30 and this sort of stuff isn't fixed.
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Why an MRI costs $1,080 in America and $280 in France
- Thread starter ronito
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pffft. Try being self employed in 'merica!
I get to pay higher taxes and get fucked buying insurance as a small group!
Republicans want to keep the system as it is.
Democrats want to just change who pays.
Neither is a solution. Actually half-assing it like the dems want might be worse.
I'll admit I'm not the biggest fan of the PPACA, but at least it'll subsidise nearly half the population in some form. Sadly it doesn't do anything to control costs, but the increased spending that'll become necessary as a result of this subsidisation will hopefully speed the demise of the system.
hockeypuck
Member
A CT scan is not part of the work-up to evaluate a heart attack. You got ripped off.
...
Unless you went to the same hospital that John Ritter went to.
What is the reason?
To someone who works in medicine, your statement doesn't tell me what's wrong with Canada. It tells me that Pittsburgh radiology groups are fucked up.
Actually, with all the attention of Canada's health coverage criticisms focusing on MRI machines, the way I see it is, if I had to pick one major medical test to be "deficient" in, it would be in the number of MRI scanners. There's nothing magical about this multimillion dollar machine that would justify a typical American hospital to pay for even overnight in-house technologist coverage like they do for CT technologists, midwives, etc. I'd say good for whichever health economist who convinced Canada's health ministry not to waste money on more MRI machines. Certainly hasn't made a dent in health outcomes on a large scale.
murderofMonkey
Banned
i'm still bitching, because i have to wait 1-3 weeks for an appointment with a dermatologist and to pay 10 once in a quarter.
Puts things into perpective when I come out of the pharmacy seething at the £7 prescription charge which the Scots and the Welsh get for free.
I actually worry about the subsidization.
I mean just look at what happened to education. Make it easy for people to borrow money for college suddenly college costs a ton more! It's like magic!
You don't even have to look at education. I mean look at the HD antenna dealio. Before the government got involved with the free market the basic antenna cost $25. Then the government started sending out $25 coupons to help subsidize the cost of the upgrade. Suddenly the price for a basic antenna was magically $50! After the program was over it was magically $25 again.
The issue is as long as you keep the free market involved they'll charge what they can. If the government gives you a subsidy for 2.5k it'll magically cost 3k more for insurance. Subsidies and changing who pays never works. You need to change the system. Issue is that when (if?) this fails people will say, "See? Government healthcare just doesn't work!" When really it's a mixing the two elements of free market and government that doesn't work.
sparky2112
Member
I weep for my country. Somehow, we need like the Pearl Harbor or 9/11 of healthcare. That's what it takes to get this bloated bitch moving.
Greatest country on Earth? Um no.
Greatest country on Earth? Um no.
methane47
Member
Here's my little health care story:
My mom had pancreatic cancer and was visiting me in the states. i told her she can probably do a CT scan here or something.
We went down to the CT scan place after a referral from my doctor. After some discussion. They told is the price was $4000 i was like WUUTTTTT i dont have that kinda money. Especially since it had to be paid up front + we dont have insurance for my mom since she doesn't live here.
Lady was like... "oh you don't have insurance?? In that case its $2000."
So there you go. The clinic cut the price in HALF just so they wouldn't have to deal with the insurance company. Ridiculous.
My mom had pancreatic cancer and was visiting me in the states. i told her she can probably do a CT scan here or something.
We went down to the CT scan place after a referral from my doctor. After some discussion. They told is the price was $4000 i was like WUUTTTTT i dont have that kinda money. Especially since it had to be paid up front + we dont have insurance for my mom since she doesn't live here.
Lady was like... "oh you don't have insurance?? In that case its $2000."
So there you go. The clinic cut the price in HALF just so they wouldn't have to deal with the insurance company. Ridiculous.
ThisWreckage
Banned
America: where having health insurance still guarantees you're getting fucked when the bills start rolling in.
Ronald_mcd
Member
Last May I got an MRI by walking into Emergency with a Doctor's note. I was getting exertion heaaches (got a pounding headache when I "released". It was scary).
Within 2 hours of being in there I was in the machine, and within 3, they had given me a spinal tap. Fuckers.
Err edit - It was a CAT Scan actually. Nevermind.
Within 2 hours of being in there I was in the machine, and within 3, they had given me a spinal tap. Fuckers.
Err edit - It was a CAT Scan actually. Nevermind.
well that's why you have to have government regulation as well. If the government is setting prices then subsidisation won't (shouldn't) cause prices to go up. Japan et al. have far less expensive healthcare because they both pay and set prices (they also have simpler system so less overhead too). Ultimately I think we need single payer.
ThisWreckage
Banned
It amazes me how opinions on the U.S. have changed in just a decade. Ten years ago people would routinely tell you that America was one of the greatest countries on Earth, if not the greatest. It didn't matter if the person was a patriot or not. Nowadays, even patriots will admit that we are lagging behind in several key areas and we are slipping as a country. Talk about decay.
Yeah but so long as you keep a strong free market presence regulation wont really help much.
I mean let's look at a recent example. Government getting tired of the same $5 part costing $250 when the DoD bought them for fighter planes or whatever passed a law saying that if you were going to be selling something to the DoD you had to charge whatever the market price for that part was. The reaction? Companies changed their parts to have different names when they were selling to the government. It is essentially the exact same part but they just put a new name on it to keep their higher prices. That way they could continue to charge the huge amounts they do.
Joe Shlabotnik
Banned
Well I've never had to pay up front (except for a $20 copay or whatever). I did get the $2500 bill mentioned earlier six months after the MRI, though.
Because... Freedom! And Socialism is bad!
Basically we have a lot of older people who are really fucking scared of socialism, and we have a political party and media machine that pushes fear as a medium. Many people have been pushed to absolutely distrust anything from government to an unhealthy degree, and those who get anything from the government have been almost villainized and dehumanized. We have a culture that actively believes if you're successful you got there absolutely by yourself, and if you aren't there you did that by yourself. There's no thankfulness for the society and its structures around us. We're a pioneer spirit to an ignorant degree, and now it's coming around to bite us in the ass.
el retorno
Member
Its not government "involvement" that fixes it its government "action". The government can and should say screw that were not paying that much for you to have these outragous profits. It works in medicare but if someone brings it up about Universities or Healthcare its the end of the world socialism crap.
The problem is the government can fix that. It can tell the companies to lower the prices. I believe they did things like that during WWII. The problem is now fox news will screm and yell since their rich friends wouldn't be as rich. That and lobbiest throw in all these loop holes.
Its freaking maddening watching the UK get pissed over people paying to talk to their PM and that crap isn't even controversial over here.
Joel Was Right
Member
Of all the things our taxes go to, free healthcare for all should be one of the things that doesn't draw complaints. In my opinion of course
well we'll see... I don't think the PPACA will solve the healthcare problem by any means. My hope is it'll make more apparent the problems with our system and bring about faster change. Only time will tell.
Just to make it clear, even though it has already been pointed out:
Even in countries where healthcare is 'free', it is paid by taxes. What the article is saying is that the cost of the MRI in France charged to the Government is only $280, while an MRI is $1800 in the States. The gulf in price has something to do with the negotiating power of the Government and saves everyone money. So in France, the patient doesn't pay even that $280 for the MRI. (Well, not directly. Everyone pays indirectly.)
To me, this suggests that healthcare is one of those markets that are more efficient in public than privately.
Even in countries where healthcare is 'free', it is paid by taxes. What the article is saying is that the cost of the MRI in France charged to the Government is only $280, while an MRI is $1800 in the States. The gulf in price has something to do with the negotiating power of the Government and saves everyone money. So in France, the patient doesn't pay even that $280 for the MRI. (Well, not directly. Everyone pays indirectly.)
To me, this suggests that healthcare is one of those markets that are more efficient in public than privately.
el retorno
Member
My hope is some states do single payer and show the rest of the country it isn't bad.
Thats the thing a private health insurance market could work (its what the Swiss have I think) Its just the prices and negociating power is usually lower spread accross thousands of companies. If everyone is beholden to the state like the UK they have to charge what the state says.
Though there is a problem with this because I think its Japan is paying too little and doctors and whatnot are having to shut down or something. There does need to be some balence. Even public health care has to deal with private companies
COMMIE!
Free healthcare or free aircraft carriers? I know what I would pick!
i rememer when i used to be passionate about this. like it actually angered me how insulting it was that america doesn't have some kind of one payer plan health care system, and how unfair and stupid it was. but then i realized that the system is set and the answer is already decided, and no matter how much you protest people like us will never actually change anything.
Perhaps there is more to his history or at the time the clinical presentation was possibly suggestive of a PE?
UnluckyKate
Member
Is your treatment costly ? Mine is so cheap. Something like 3 euros every month. But whenever I need to go to hospital (every 3 month) it would cost me an arm and a leg.
Some people say that I'm ruining the system. I don't think so. I'm not abusing it. I'm doing my part (taking the subway for appointment, not asking for taxi + coverage, etc...)
It's never a handout when it's your hand that's out.
I've thought about this, but it won't be possible without government price negotiation as well. Because this is an "interstate commerce" issue, I don't feel States would be able to effectively control costs.
There's this cool thing called Triage. Having gone through the system I can say it works. Way to feed the propaganda machine though.
The U.S. healthcare system is great until you turn 19. The CHIP program covers basically anyone making less than 50k a year. When I had it, my parents never had to pay a copay or a prescription deductible. I got totally fucked when I couldn't use it anymore. My dad's work said it would cost $400 a month to put me on his policy. I've been uninsured for the last year or so. This country has done a lot of great things, but the healthcare system is simply criminal.
el retorno
Member
Im just hoping it will lead to some changes. I think the health care law will lead to more tinkering and and eventual turn towards single payer or more government control.
I really don't care what kind of system we have just as long as its priced so nobody is harmed by being sick. I don't care if bill gates pays 4,000 for an MRI but I can't pay that.
Truth,
Its funny when people cite the wait times in the Canadian system yet don't realize it is a small price to pay (along with our exuberant taxes) for universal heathcare. My father had open heart surgery a few years back. Just the patient care at the hospital alone would have bankrupted us if we were in the States (medical insurance would probably only cover a portion of his several month stay). Now he is on diaysis 3 times a week, would I know would be 10k pop across the boarder.
This post isn't trying to stir up the Canada is better schtick, it is just that America can provide these kinds of services to people.
In terms of waiting to see a specialist in the US, it's still damn hard to get appointments with them. I have to go see a dermatologist once ever few months for my eczema. I remember on several points I called and the next available was six+ weeks out.
Needless to say, I learned to keep calling just in case there was a cancellation.
Needless to say, I learned to keep calling just in case there was a cancellation.
mclaren777
Member
Fixed.
lolz only Americuh has teh fatties.
Dude, let me tell you a story about an American.
This American felt a lump on his left testicle and scheduled an appointment online. A secretary from his primary care physician called him and told him the next opening was in six weeks.
The American then attempted to contact the Urology clinic. Again, they tried to schedule him in 4 weeks.
The American demanded talking to a nurse immediately, and, after explaining the situation, the nurse was able to get him an appointment at 11 AM that Friday.
This American is me. And it happened today. I was told twice by staff to wait a month to get a lump on my testicle examined. In any other 1st world country, I'd have gotten an appointment either today or tomorrow, not 5 days from now.
The wait times you worry about belong to AMERICA.
Amen, brother.
As with the story I posted above, I had to be literally in pain, broken out horribly to be able to get an appointment ASAP. Regular check up? Nope. SIX WEEKS, BITCH.
Guerrillas in the Mist
Member
I'm not an economist, but the main issue I see with a for-profit healthcare system is that there is no incentive for preventative approaches, because there is money to be made off of expensive scans, procedures and practices. That, and there doesn't seem to be any force moderating the cost of healthcare.
How do the "free market makes everything cheaper and better" types explain the US healthcare system and it's immense cost and waste?
How do the "free market makes everything cheaper and better" types explain the US healthcare system and it's immense cost and waste?
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I think a lot of people mistake wait times we have here. If you have a medical emergency you will be seen right away, there isn't people dying of bullet wounds on account of an overworked healthcare system. The problem is that non-emergency waits cant be quite long.
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