Freezie KO
Banned
Sorry. Too lazy to search. But next time it happens and I get banned for pointing it out, I'll be glad to PM you once my ban ends.
Why does GAF lean so much to the left in politics?
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Sorry. Too lazy to search. But next time it happens and I get banned for pointing it out, I'll be glad to PM you once my ban ends.
I dunno. In the UK, all the major political parties have committed to austerity measures and aren't calling for any kind of Kensian style public works programs or other similar governmental intervention in the economy. The Conservative government was elected on a platform advocating austerity measures.
There's certainly no calls to seriously increase taxation or to reverse the massive privatisation that Thatcher brought in.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...al-than-Margaret-Thatcher-in-full-flight.html
i was going to say education and logic but that has been said already. it is kind of ironic that the right leaning side would then be assumed uneducated when the right leaning crowed are also assumed republican and thus should be going to the rich people colleges. i know this is full of generalizations but its pretty much whats running thru my head. im wondering if its the product of lower class society having to muscle their way thru ten years of college while upper class graduates quickly with less effort.
I wouldn't consider the Democrats socially left, more centrist, from a European standpoint.
Bigotted against bigotry yo. Do you not see the difference? Or do you feel oppressed by the fact that it is not acceptable to oppress people?
Fudgepuppy
Banned
It's funny how my left-wing is basically marxist-communists with an appetite for abortions compared to the American left, since I live in Sweden.
I lean left because I believe in less focus on money and more focus on thriving as a community where everyone are equals.
I lean left because I believe in less focus on money and more focus on thriving as a community where everyone are equals.
"Educated" (for this post considered to be people with at least one degree) is a much broader group than "wealthy". The vast majority of educated people are middle class. Maybe even lower-middle. Having an arts degree doesn't exactly help you get rich, and the more degrees you have (thus, the more educated you are), the more likely you are to stay in academia and not work in the private sector.
Also, just because educated people are more likely to be left-leaning in their politics (which is basically a fact, btw) does not mean that all educated people are. Nor does it mean it's somehow more correct to be left-leaning just because a lot of educated people are. There's a healthy dose of self-interest in anyone's political leanings, and frankly the middle class has benefited greatly from the rise of the left over the 20th century.
Sure, but in that post I'm talking about relative to the American centre. That said, they are pro-secular-government, pro-choice, and recently (lagging mainstream socially leftist parties the world over only by a few years) pro-gay-marriage.
Both parties in the US are quite anti-authoritarian, with most of that line of thinking taking place in the far right where social conservatism is a big deal (and is fracturing the Republican party bit by bit). So far-left ideologies that involve authoritarian bents (communism, the recent trend towards hard-line secularism -- banning of hijabs and such) just plain don't exist in the US. That's why its centre is further to the right.
The Jason
Member
Well, many republicans are not rich at all. This is why social conservatism is so prevalent in the republican party, as it gets people to vote against their own economic self-interest (as depending on only the rich--who directly benefit from economic policies--would not suffice to capture the votes needed to win elections.)
Sorry. Too lazy to search. But next time it happens and I get banned for pointing it out, I'll be glad to PM you once my ban ends.
Bring up an argument but fail to prove it, quite the strong proof you have here against left leaning GAF, rofl.
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Look, i am a part of left. Actually i am a socialist. Why would i and other left leaning vote against our own interest? Let me ask you, unless you are rich, why do you vote against your own interest?
The party has gotten really broad. The centrist output is just the average of opinions filtered by infighting. We need a third party pretty bad.
And they have been rewarded with a double dip recession. GDP growth has been negative for three straight quarters. You're absolutely right that they aren't calling for more stimulus themselves, but it's more stubbornness in a refusal to abandon austerity than sound economic policy.
Here's what the economists are saying
blame space
Banned
what are your favorite boards that lean right?
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/b/50/Political-Talk.aspx
http://www.tigerdroppings.com/rant/b/50/Political-Talk.aspx
QuiteWhittle
Member
Only Business academics slighty lean right. Academics in the Humanities, physical sciences, and social sciences lean left. Engineers are equally split, with a slight majority that leans left.
Raonak
Banned
this.
i mean, from an outsider's perspective, the republicans seem borderline extremists
Buddha Beam
Banned
I think this is pretty spot on, but I'd go a bit further and say that the types of people a place like GAF attracts are people who place a much greater emphasis on reasoning, measurable results, math, etc Nerds and geeks, in other words (but I mean that in a loving way!). All of those things tend to be more associated with and intellectually attractive to the "left" or "liberals" (which is partly why Democrats always lose elections). If that's a relatively accurate statement, that would account for much of why GAF tilts to the left.
Freezie KO
Banned
I brought up a personal anecdote of when I, myself, was banned for sticking up for a rightist (whom I disagreed with), rofl.
Personally, I don't need to prove it to myself since it happened to me. If you don't want to accept that as proof, that's fine. I just don't feel the need to spend an hour or two digging up the thread to prove it to anyone, when this topic will be buried on page five by tomorrow.
I certainly think my anecdote offers more to the conversation than a post (riddled with grammatical errors) proclaiming how educated GAF is over the general populace. Frankly, there's probably an identical post on a conservative forum saying how that forum is conservative because they're so educated.
As a left-ish type person who is none of these I'm not sure why GAF is more left but it is a welcome break from my work environment where I learn such insightful things like 'Obamacare is just so the president can give free insurance to the Blacks' and 'If you vote Democrat you are stuck on stupid.'
I also tire of the insinuation that God hating coastal children are the only ones that can be liberal. Even in my very red state over 40% voted for Obama last time and I doubt they were all college kids.
The Jason
Member
Yeah, I work for a bunch of corporate folk, and I can't believe how much shit they talk about obama. So much so that they have to preface it with things like "I'm not racist" or "nothing against him as a person" (total bullshit). And it I'm sure its anecdotal but they tend to make misogynistic comments all the time too, for which I have to hide my cringe.
Oh, I know! I'm certainly not advocating Thatcherism or neoliberalism. I support socialist policies.
But I think that the political climate (I realise that's a vague term) in the UK and world are generally advocates of the neoliberal ideas of Friedman, Thatcher and Reagan, i.e. that the economy works best when the government plays as small a role as possible, privatise as much as possible, leave private enterprise to its own devices so that it can 'flourish' and keep taxation of wealthy individuals and big business low.
In practice, the few times that governments went against these policies, and directly intervened in the economy, was to bail out big business and especially financial institutions. This meant that debt became nationalised. This debt is then used to justify austerity measures.
Interestingly, China is one of the few countries which has been using keynesian-style government intervention in the economy. Its economy continues to flourish. Unfortunately, much of this has been based on property speculation, which has created a massive bubble.
Enosh
Member
o.k., Canada it is
lets take a look, taken from wiki atm, but should be fairly accurate
first lets go to political parties in canada, the biggest one seems to be the Conservatives, i don't think those are supposed to be left, then we have New Democratic Party in the House of Commons as the second biggest and the Liberal Party of Canada in the senate, which is apparently unelected (at least the new democrat say so) so lets leave that party
lets look at the democratic party (US) position first:
-minimum wage: higher
-ending tax cuts for the wealthy, progressive taxation
-health care, kinda divided, mostly in favor in the Obama plan, some want full universal health care, others don't
-renewable every, reducing emission, better access to public transportation etc etc
-cheaper college education, more public colleges
-affirmative action, equal rights, dream act etc etc
-access to birth control, support of Roe v. wade
-support for Israel, support for the Afghanistan war, some supported the Iraq one others didn't
lets look at the Canadians now, shall we, even have a nice list with the New Democratic Party:
Gender equality and equal rights for LGBT citizens
Improving environmental protection through government regulations
National water safety standards
Increasing corporate taxes
Reducing poverty in Canada
Aggressive human rights protection
Expanding funding for public transportation
Expanding public health care, including dental and prescription drug coverage
Social assistance policies that reflects citizens' needs and assist their re-entry to the work force
Abolishing the unelected Senate of Canada and ensuring more proportional representation
Workers' rights including raising the minimum wage to pace the cost of living
Aboriginal peoples' treaty, land, and constitutional rights
A foreign policy that emphasizes diplomacy, peacekeeping, and humanitarian aid instead of offensive military action
Renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA)
One wing is focused on ending the Canadian War on Drugs and legalizing recreational drugs
Lowering taxes for small businesses
there, bolded the ones that are pretty much the same policy, italicized those that are very canada specific
that leaves us with:
- Aggressive human rights protection, which is pretty much meaningless and very unspecific, can't really compare with anything, don't think you would find a politician that would be against human right
- Social assistance policies that reflects citizens' needs and assist their re-entry to the work force, which the democrats do support too, maybe just not as much as the canadian party, again rather vague, the democrat party page does mention extension of medicare, substitutes for poor people, they also support not cutting stuff like social security, food stamps etc
-A foreign policy that emphasizes diplomacy, peacekeeping, and humanitarian aid instead of offensive military action, the big one, foreign policy does present a rather big difference between the two parties, but that is hardly surprising, one is a world power with multiple military assets all over the world, the other is well Canada
- Renegotiating the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA), this one is a bit strange apparently the democrats were for it and are now against it, the Canadians seem to be against it
edit:
well changed the
-Expanding public health care, including dental and prescription drug coverage, I guess the democrats are also for expanding it but they probably differ when it comes to just how far, which might be more based on "we can't push shit too far" than any real differences in views, but both are clearly for expanding it
To Far Away Times
Member
Generally speaking, the more educated you are, the more liberal you are.
Also: I'm 26.
I can't remember George H.W. Bush's presidency. But I can remember: Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama.
One of these presidents was really fucking bad and likely the only exposure that people in their mid 20's might have had of republicans.
Also: I'm 26.
I can't remember George H.W. Bush's presidency. But I can remember: Clinton, George W. Bush, and Obama.
One of these presidents was really fucking bad and likely the only exposure that people in their mid 20's might have had of republicans.
On the left vs right debate it's pointless to argue about a lot of stuff except this: if you are socially right wing you are just fucking wrong, sorry.
On the other hand, even though I believe we are always supposed to progress, it's not bad having a conservative antipole because the left can get out of hand too. I only get pissed off when these fucking idiots work against progress which would benefit everyone.
And jesus christ, I'm in my last year of grammar school and as expected people are left wing. My classmates are hyper left wing about everything, socially too. But as soon as women come up they spew out misogynist bullshit because of their insecurity with women.
On the other hand, even though I believe we are always supposed to progress, it's not bad having a conservative antipole because the left can get out of hand too. I only get pissed off when these fucking idiots work against progress which would benefit everyone.
And jesus christ, I'm in my last year of grammar school and as expected people are left wing. My classmates are hyper left wing about everything, socially too. But as soon as women come up they spew out misogynist bullshit because of their insecurity with women.
OriginofHysteria
Banned
I still don't understand why people say this. You can still be educated and form your own opinions, right or left. That comes with being educated.
It just is like that. We don't say it's supposed to be like that but it is.
And here in Switzerland it's forbidden for teachers to talk about their views on politics, if you overdo it you can get fired. And still most of the most educated people here end up middle left or left.
(And you are absolutely right)
Ah, ok, I was misinterpreting public opinion and what recent history suggests is the right policy. I'm not as informed when it comes to other world economies but I'd definitely agree that the US/UK are still ruled by free market thought
AstroNut325
Member
I don't think there is much more I can add. In general I don't necessarily disagree with conservatives I know in real life. They tend to be level headed people who do fundamentally care for the American people. It's just sad to see the party leadership was hijacked by right wing extremist.
Can't accept a 4% tax increase on people making 10-100 times more than you??? Really?
No health care unless you've earned it? Really??
Removing science from textbooks and replacing it with Creationism? REALLY?
Espousing austerity while inflating the military budget? REALLY?
Regression of womens rights? REALLY?
I've said this before and I'll say it again... a conservative/right wing/republican of the United States is an extremist to the rest of the world. THAT says something.
Can't accept a 4% tax increase on people making 10-100 times more than you??? Really?
No health care unless you've earned it? Really??
Removing science from textbooks and replacing it with Creationism? REALLY?
Espousing austerity while inflating the military budget? REALLY?
Regression of womens rights? REALLY?
I've said this before and I'll say it again... a conservative/right wing/republican of the United States is an extremist to the rest of the world. THAT says something.
speculawyer
Member
1) age
2) video game geeks often science & engineer types
2) video game geeks often science & engineer types
What? Proof? It's common knowledge. The most left in America isn't even the most right in Norway.
Freezie KO
Banned
Anders Breivik would be considered a hippie in America.
Red Blaster
Member
cause being right wing is for losers
It's not really about proof, it's about the fact that the only description we have of the event is the one you've provided. Even if someone else were to go through your post history, they couldn't be entirely certain that any specific post they've found is the subject of your anecdote. It may not be your intent to be disingenuous, but the result is largely indistinguishable from what we'd expect from someone who'd prefer not to give others the opportunity to examine the posting record and form their own opinions about the incident.
This is a total non sequitur. Okay, so your post isn't the worst one in the thread. That's something you can be proud of, I guess, but it's not at all germane to the comment you're replying to. Or anything else, really.
blame space
Banned
- Albert Einstein
TheChewyWaffles
Member
To question in OP: Demographic for a site like this is young people influenced by left-leaning academia.
Freezie KO
Banned
Someday you'll have to accept that you're posting on an internet forum, and you can't force someone to do your two-hour research for you.
If you give that much of a shit, go through my posting history. If you don't give that much of a shit, ignore the post. Tons of posts have been made in this thread regarding education/politics correlations, age/politics correlations, etc. and nobody has offered a citation.
The comment made against me was ridiculous anyway. As if I'm "against left-leaning GAF"... I'm an atheist for healthcare and gun-control, but my bigger political standing is against hypocrisy, which I see oozing from a whole lot of PoliGAF.
Are you Canadian? Do you live here?
NDP are as far left as you can get. Liberal is center left. and the PC is just coming into power. Now i dont think you can compare our right to the US right. You arent even in the same ballpark.
tekumseh
a mass of phermones, hormones and adrenaline just waiting to explode
I'm 48, and I lean pretty far to the left, aside from healthcare, where I would've favored a single payer socalist program. And I'm a nurse, so before anyone decides to point it out, I realize that my single-payer belief is cutting my own nose off to spite my face, but I guess that seems like a more worthwhile ideal than I can find in those in this country who continue to vote against their own interests because the party they support cares less about them than they do about unborn children...
TacticalFox88
Banned
There is no "Left" leaning on GAF. Why? Because most of GAF are realists. Most of our opinions are based on facts with reasonable evidence.
Most "right" wing opinions don't match up with objective reality and facts, so therefore it's mocked.
Most "right" wing opinions don't match up with objective reality and facts, so therefore it's mocked.
I consider myself centrist libertarian (even though that may be considered a bad word on GAF because tea partiers confuse themselves with the entire libertarian spectrum).
But honestly, how can you NOT vote against the Republicans? Any rational person should. If you're conservative, you should see through the GOP's word on fiscal conservatism instantly. Mad cognitive dissonance isn't something a rational person does. The GOP today is full of liars and cheats, even by political standards. Just look at how they're trying to make up bullshit excuses to stop unfavorable demographics from voting in Penn and Ohio right now.
So if by left you mean Democratic party consider that in the United States, you either vote Democrat or some 3rd party.
But honestly, how can you NOT vote against the Republicans? Any rational person should. If you're conservative, you should see through the GOP's word on fiscal conservatism instantly. Mad cognitive dissonance isn't something a rational person does. The GOP today is full of liars and cheats, even by political standards. Just look at how they're trying to make up bullshit excuses to stop unfavorable demographics from voting in Penn and Ohio right now.
So if by left you mean Democratic party consider that in the United States, you either vote Democrat or some 3rd party.
Huh? The CPC (there is no federal PC party and hasn't been for over a decade now) has been in power since 2006.
reggieandTFE
Member
The fact that your mind jumps to gang rape as a metaphor for people disagreeing with your viewpoint awesomely illustrates why conservatives constantly get their ass kicked in arguments here.
6 years ago in a predominantly Liberal country. Sorry i used PC. I know that's frowned upon now.
9 of 22 of our prime ministers have been conservative. You cant count pre laurier cause it was basically only one party. So 9 of 15. most of those were 1 terms. we had almost 12 years of liberal government before harper.
I'm really not sure what you're trying to say here, but this is getting pretty OT for the thread so I'll drop it.
However, the United States is quite liberal in comparison to the entire world outside of Europe and Canada. Same-sex marriage, for example, is only fully legal in a dozen countries, and the very concept of being a homosexual is grounds for arrest, imprisonment, or even execution in slightly left than half the world's countries. Abortion is only fully legal upon a woman's request in twenty-four nations, and the freedoms of religion and speech still are not universal rights.
While the country is quite far to the right of most of Europe, America as a nation is much more progressive than the world as a whole. Personally, I think that judging the politics of every country by the relatively small European standard is unrealistic and a bit small-minded.
However saying that the United States is behind other first-world nations in terms of civil liberties, certain human rights, and regulations isn't unfounded.
Im trying to say we are a liberal country.
Also if you are canadian, you should know that our vote system sucks. votes dont match seats. so while the Conservative won the most seats for a majority, it doesnt actually represent the popular vote. I hope they change this soon.
Freezie KO
Banned
Arguably, America is more liberal/classicallly liberal/free regarding speech than Europe.
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