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[mrklaw]

I read a Halo 2 review on teletext yesterday that said the single player was poor (relatively speaking), but the multiplayer game makes up for it, and seems to have gotten the most attention spent on it (possibly to the detriment of the single player game)

That's what I was worried about. MS are *so* focussed on making Xbox live a success that they are blinded to the facts.

There are 15 million or so Xbox owners out there, but only 1 million live subscribers. Even with a built in ethernet cable, thats a poor uptake. But MS keep singing the praises of live.

Now, I like live a lot. Lots of gamers like it (well, a million of them anyway). But it clearly isn't the massmarket success MS would have us believe. And I do not like being shortchanged on single player/offline multiplayer because of it.

Anyone else feel the same?

 

[pilonv1]

People like to have fun.

 

[puck1337]

It builds goodwill with the hardcore. And the hardcore starts pushing it on their non-hardcore friends. Then everyone starts having fun, and system sales rise faster and faster.

 

[Jonnyram]

There are 15 million or so Xbox owners out there, but only 1 million live subscribers. Even with a built in ethernet cable, thats a poor uptake. But MS keep singing the praises of live.

Only? 1 in 15 is a pretty good ratio in the current industry. This is the start of online gaming being accepted by the general gaming public - you can't expect it to go from 0-50% overnight. I think MS are doing a damned good job at putting consoles online. Everyone should sing the praises of Live

 

[_Angelus_]

Because playing over Xbox Live is better than playing through a tv with 4 split screen boxes and having a barf bag around for the motion sickness that then proceeds.

 

[DCharlie]

XBL is one of the best pieces of software i've seen.

and just look at those Halo 2 usage stats! With no real issues yet.

 

[radioheadrule83]

You're missing the point. He feels its to the detriment of single player gaming. I agree with him that multiplayer shouldn't necessarily be the focus... but Halo 2 was always going to be used as a vehicle to sell more Live subscriptions.

I hate the way the Xbox mag in the UK deducts points for a game not supporting Live. In most cases, I honestly won't care if it does or doesn't. All I care about is: Is is a good game?

 

[Fixed2BeBroken]

from my understanding the majority find the single player very good, just shorter than expected with a love it or hate it ending.

 

[Sysgen]

I read a Halo 2 review on teletext yesterday that said the single player was poor (relatively speaking), but the multiplayer game makes up for it, and seems to have gotten the most attention spent on it (possibly to the detriment of the single player game)

No. It's obvious that a tremondous amout of resources went into the single player campaign. Music, animation, graphics, voice overs. Everything is top notch. Whoever said it was poor (relativly speaking) needs glasses. You can say that you weren't happy with it but it certainly isn't poor.

 

[Kiriku]

from my understanding the majority find the single player very good, just shorter than expected with a love it or hate it ending.

Whaa, there are people who LOVE the ending??

 

[Gahiggidy]

I don't think its by design.

 

[buck naked]

I read a Halo 2 review on teletext yesterday that said the single player was poor (relatively speaking), but the multiplayer game makes up for it, and seems to have gotten the most attention spent on it (possibly to the detriment of the single player game) And I do not like being shortchanged on single player/offline multiplayer because of it.

Anyone else feel the same?

It's ridiculous to say that Halo 2's single player is 'poor' and that the multiplayer is its redeeming feature.

While the two aspects of the game were developed side by side, development of the single player campaign claims the bulk of the resources. Story-boarding, scripting, directing and acting the cut scenes, designing all the environments, scoring the music, animating all the characters.

Some of those resources are shared with the multiplayer development (textures, sounds, characters and animations, possibly some level design), but development of the multiplayer pretty much boils down to level design, scenario design, stat tracking system, network code and testing.

It's the same engine and the same controls. It's just about which you enjoy more - and multiplayer provides a quicker, more satisfying game and better longevity.

Basically, if you are a fan of multiplayer, Halo 2 realises a lot of Halo 1's potential. If you don't play multiplayer, then you've got more of the same with better presentation.

 

[Tellaerin]

Now, I like live a lot. Lots of gamers like it (well, a million of them anyway). But it clearly isn't the massmarket success MS would have us believe. And I do not like being shortchanged on single player/offline multiplayer because of it.

Anyone else feel the same?

*raises hand*

I wasn't disappointed at all with the single-player portion of Halo 2--I had a great time with it, and I don't feel like any corners were cut in production, whether to spend more time improving multiplayer or for any other reason. On the other hand, I still suspect that the decision not to implement bots for multiplayer was 'suggested' from on high, motivated by MS' desire for people to subscribe to Live, rather than as a matter of design philosophy. As much as I love the game, being able to play the multiplayer modes offline against competent bots would have made it that much better in my eyes.

What's really disturbing is that I can easily see this becoming a trend. With all the time and effort involved in developing a game nowadays, not having to worry about coding more than perfunctory AI for your upcoming fighter/racer/FPS because 'it's going to be online anyway' could be seen as a boon by a lot of developers. Just bolt on some well-tested netcode, tweak and optimize for your particular project if necessary, and poof, done. Now you've got that much more time to spend coding important things, like impressive visuals--at least those can be used to sell games. How can you take pictures of 'good AI'? (Or so the reasoning goes in some quarters, I suspect.) I think this mentality has already taken root, at least to an extent. I just hope (vainly, perhaps) that it won't become the predominant mode of thinking in the industry. =/

 

[miyuru]

For sales. Halo was primarily popular for its multiplayer = word of mouth = more crazed Halo fans = better sales. Singleplayer is only replayable so long, though multiplayer gives a game really, really long legs.

MS doesn't give a shit about you, and neither does any other company. They want to make profit, and they want to ensure a sucessful future.

 

[Suerte]

For sales. Halo was primarily popular for its multiplayer = word of mouth = more crazed Halo fans = better sales. Singleplayer is only replayable so long, though multiplayer gives a game really, really long legs.

MS doesn't give a shit about you, and neither does any other company. They want to make profit, and they want to ensure a sucessful future.

But surely companies need to give a shit about their customers or they WON'T make a profit?

 

[Any1]

Most reviews i have read state that the single player is exceptional. The only real complaints i have heard are regarding the ending. Which has more to do with tastes than effort put into the single player.

Many haters are gonna talk about the sp sucking because, well because it's absolute fact that the mp is the best ever seen on a console. But they can always say that since they don't have broadband and or don't have interest in multiplayer type of games.

You see, it's a way for fanboys to slag off Halo 2 without sounding like fanboys. It's the exact same thing they did with the original Halo. But just read the reviews from sites you trust and they will give you a good idea of how good the single player is.

And remember just because some reviewers were disapointed with how the story ends doesn't mean they were disapointed in the single player. The fact is that the gameplay is so damn good and the story so engrossing that people are so upset at how it ends is more an indication of how well the story and gameplay grab you. But alas, the ending will disapoint... But not a second before!

 

[chespace]

I hate the way the Xbox mag in the UK deducts points for a game not supporting Live. In most cases, I honestly won't care if it does or doesn't. All I care about is: Is is a good game?

in the case of metal arms, i really did deduct points for lack of Live because the multiplayer was actually fun. it just sucked playing it 4 way splitscreen (since there wasn't even LAN support). some types of games almost require multiplayer/online, others -- not so much.

 

[miyuru]

But surely companies need to give a shit about their customers or they WON'T make a profit?

Yeah. To clarify, I meant, personally, any company doesn't care who you are really. Why do you think petitions almost never work?

Well, you know what I mean...right?

Edit: By "any company", I'm generalising. Just as a consumer yourself, you shouldn't be fooled by companies giving you the impression that "they care", or something to that effect. They care about your dollars, and that's the bottomline, and they will even deceive you to get those dollars, particularly by fooling you that yes, they actually do care about you.

They don't, they want money, so they'll focus on creating what will get you the money. This is the reason artistic vision is often not realised as much today as it used to be in the past.

I'm not pinpointing Bungie, because I'm sure they care about Halo. And I'm not saying MS pressured them into creating focussing on multiplayer. If you ask me, Bungie probably made most decisions regarding gameplay themselves. Honestly, I haven't even played Halo 2's singleplayer, nor it's multiplayer that much. But in general, what I said above is more or less true.

 

[etiolate]

PC gaming doesn't really rely on single player experiences. Don't expect MS to change that for their xbox, despite pissing off the true hardcore console gamers. I don't know where online = harcore came from. It's just another one of many things companies have tried to push down our throats, but this one has gotten positive PR instead of negative PR. If you play a lot of Xbox games, get use to dealing with assholes online.

 

[thorns]

So halo 2 single player is "poor" now? :lol

 

[Subitai]

Well, the multiplayer is what really made Halo popular. Everyone played through the campaign like 3 or 4 times and then it became about tearing it up on split screen, many times over system link. Most people have been playing Halo this way since they first got it.

So, really MS/Bungie are serving their fans what they want the most - another multiplayer FPS they can splitscreen or system link to death.

 

[AniHawk]

So halo 2 single player is "poor" now? :lol

Relatively speaking. I'm guessing to other FPSers. You know, GoldenEye, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Brute Force, etc.

 

[Sean]

As much as I love a great single player, I've only played a few single player games more than once, so I for one am glad that multiplayer is getting more attention devoted to it by developers then it has in the past. After all, a great multiplayer mode is the thing that will keep you playing the title for years (until the sequel comes out anyway).

 

[mrklaw]

I did say 'relatively speaking'. They compared it to Halo 1, and didn't think it moved things on enough. They said it had great dialog, but a poor story, and repetitive level design, elements from the first one that could have been improved, but weren't.

It still got a 9/10, so they aren't slagging it off, just pointing out that single player isn't much better than Halo 1.

They also had a nice article about hype. Pointing out that for the likes of GTA and Halo2, the PR has already got people deciding the games are great. It almost makes the job of a reviewer irrelevant, as people have already made up their minds (or had them made up for them)

 

[miyuru]

Relatively speaking. I'm guessing to other FPSers. You know, GoldenEye, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Brute Force, etc.

What.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Relatively speaking. I'm guessing to other FPSers. You know, GoldenEye, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Brute Force, etc.

Perfect Dark had really poor 1 player mode. i mean after the first level its if a diffent company made teh game. Play Goldeneye again 1 player was definately not the reason it was so popular. Metroid prime you is a toos up some ppl love the back tracking and respawning and other ppl dont.

Brute force a FPS WTF?

 

[Kabuki Waq]

The Firefights in Halo1 were godly especially on legendary. The AI was and still is some of the best.

 

[AniHawk]

Perfect Dark had really poor 1 player mode. i mean after the first level its if a diffent company made teh game. Play Goldeneye again 1 player was definately not the reason it was so popular. Metroid prime you is a toos up some ppl love the back tracking and respawning and other ppl dont.

Yeah. I guess that must speak volumes about Halo 2's single player then.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Yeah. I guess that must speak volumes about Halo 2's single player then.

no i think it speaks volumes for your lack of taste in First person shooters.


To compare Halo single player to the likes of Brute Froce?!?! I mean WTF?
The AI is amazing in the Halo series the firefights are always intense with various ways to deal with battles, how can anyone say halo has poor single player?

 

[AniHawk]

how can anyone say halo has poor single player?

No one said it was poor in general.

 

[buck naked]

AniHawk comes in and confuses everyone...

I did say 'relatively speaking'. They compared it to Halo 1, and didn't think it moved things on enough. They said it had great dialog, but a poor story, and repetitive level design, elements from the first one that could have been improved, but weren't... Pointing out that single player isn't much better than Halo 1.

So... what we're boiling down to now is criticism of the story arc and opinions from people who know nothing about first person shooters...

 

[mumu]

I'm waiting for the Halo2 did not live up to the hype threads now.

 

[mrklaw]

So... what we're boiling down to now is criticism of the story arc and opinions from people who know nothing about first person shooters...

no, we are boiling down to criticism of the story arc and opinions from people that review and play lots of games...

 

[buck naked]

Then someone has a case of nostalgia with Halo's scope, copy/paste level design, and presentation.

 

[Kabuki Waq]

Relatively speaking. I'm guessing to other FPSers. You know, GoldenEye, Half-Life, Half-Life 2, Perfect Dark, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Brute Force, etc.

I love the way he states that he is guessing for FPSers and then lists Goldeneye, perfect dark, metroid prime 1 -1 and even fucking brute force!!!!!

Cause we know how many "FPSers" loves those games :lol

 

[Kabuki Waq]

no, we are boiling down to criticism of the story arc and opinions from people that review and play lots of games...

who would that be again ??? other than Greg K ?

 

[drohne]

er, maybe you should actually try halo 2's single player campaign before you criticize bungie's priorities. it's far better than the first game's, and while i can understand the story complaints, the level designs certainly aren't repetitive. it's by some distance the best single player fps i've played.

and i think bungie are on record as saying that the campaign was their focus and received the majority of their attention and resources. a lot of the hype centered on multiplayer, but i think that was just a product of the ridiculous secrecy around the campaign.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Whaa, there are people who LOVE the ending??

i did

 

[AniHawk]

i did

So did you bring the condom when it screwed you?

Spoiler

That means I'm kidding.

 

[mrklaw]

who would that be again ??? other than Greg K ?

The guys on Channel 4 teletext. They have a nice little gaming section run by people that play games. I trust their reviews (although they have just changed managment, so I haven't got used to their new guys yet)

I'm not saying I believe them, and I certainly don't let reviews make up my mind whether to buy a game or not. But I do use them and others to help provide some context, especially for games where the hype is fucking ridiculous.

 

[Blackace]

Live makes them money... people have to pay to use it... so after they sell a game (halo 2) and if you want to use all the functions.. then you have to pay for live.. that is why they are pushing it...

 

[The Faceless Master]

So did you bring the condom when it screwed you?

Spoiler

That means I'm kidding.

well, truthfully,

Spoiler

i love trilogies

 

[Gantz]

XBL is great but I don't like the demographic of people who play on it. Am I the only one who isn't too wild about the multiplayer in Halo 2? The multiplayer maps are too big. It takes forever to find people unless you're playing 16 players. No co-op link up wtf? Oh did I mention split-screen gaming sucks?

 

[StoOgE]

Umm.. I havent finished the single player of Halo 2 yet, but from where I am sitting, its the best single player FPS I've played. Half-life having that title before this, and I suspect Half-life 2 taking it away very quickly (unless it turns into the adventures on Xen :lol).

Halo 2 also has the best 'base' multiplayer of any FPS I have played (half-life still holds this honor with authority if you count all the mods). The thing is, I will likely replay the single player 3 or 4 times in the next year or so, while I will play the multiplayer constantly...

Begin RantI think what you are seeing is not single player being pushed aside for multiplayer, you are seeing multiplayer finaly getting the attention it deserves. In the past, a strong multiplayer portion of a game could actually be detrimental to a companies profit margins.. they dont want you to be addicted to one games multiplayer for 6 months or more.. they want you to play through the single player, beat it, and move on to the next thing. This is how you get very tacked on feeling multiplayer modes in alot of games in the past. This isnt the case allways, as many games have sold themselves based on multiplayer modes (Goldeneye, first halo, etc.).. but with Xbox Live Microsoft now has an incentive for their first and second party releases to have exceptional mutliplayer that warrants 50 dollars a year being spent on it. They still want good single player so that they can still sell the game to non-Xbox Live users.. but Xbox Live is really pushing multiplayer to the level it should have been at all along.

 

[Musashi Wins!]

I agree, the single player is superb. This is really a non-issue for the game so I guess that makes it a pretty dumb topic. What your really seeing is that it's getting attention for having one the best multiplayer modes on any console.

 

[cvxfreak]

Answer to the topic:

Same reason Nintendo does. It's a good tool for sales and quality.

 

[IJoel]

Halo 2 SP is incredible. I find it ridiculous some people here are making baseless assumptions on the game based on the ending. Of course, most are the usual suspects.