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Windows Phone |OT3| Apollo has landed

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C

campfireweekend

Member
I just checked my old iPhone 4 and Ms. Splosion Man for iOS runs on iPad 2 and newer, iPhone 4 and newer, and iPad mini. And Microsoft couldn't get it to work on windows phone 8 or windows rt. It really is like the separate divisions of Microsoft never speak to one another. It really baffles my mind that rt doesn't get the age of empires HD port that they made, and that's it not even launching on the windows 8 store. Microsoft's new initiative is apparently services which manage to span a wide array of devices and different devices that manage to seamlessly speak with each other. Why should we pretend they're capable of such an initiative if even their own separate divisions are unable to.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
TTOOLL said:
2011 hardware...yeah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iDMpnvedwvs
Click to expand...
A dual-core CPU, a gig of ram and a 720p display is 2011 hardware, like it or not.

I still can't believe I even tried to have this discussion. It's the exact same problem WP had before. It was a great experience on a single-core phone with 512 mb RAM and I still prefer it over my Nexus, but it makes it harder to sell. That's all I was trying to say. Operators don't care about how fast and smooth the OS is, when they can push 1080p displays, 2 GB RAM and 4 cores.

WP8 was supposed to end this, but didn't.
 
TTOOLL

TTOOLL

Member
brotkasten said:
A dual-core CPU, a gig of ram and a 720p display is 2011 hardware, like it or not.

I still can't believe I even tried to have this discussion. It's the exact same problem WP had before. It was a great experience on a single-core phone with 512 mb RAM and I still prefer it over my Nexus, but it makes it harder to sell. That's all I was trying to say. Operators don't care about how fast and smooth the OS is, when they can push 1080p displays, 2 GB RAM and 4 cores.

WP8 was supposed to end this, but didn't.
Click to expand...


I know it may appeal to some people, but not for all. Another fact is that WP doesn't need to participate in this hardware run. Android is not in the lead because of this, it is mostly because of cheap phones with TERRIBLE user experience. WP will never focus on specs nor will Apple. MS needs to focus on apps. Also, if the rest of the hardware is 2011 the camera alone is 2015, 16? It has no been surpassed yet.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
brotkasten said:
A dual-core CPU, a gig of ram and a 720p display is 2011 hardware, like it or not.

I still can't believe I even tried to have this discussion. It's the exact same problem WP had before. It was a great experience on a single-core phone with 512 mb RAM and I still prefer it over my Nexus, but it makes it harder to sell. That's all I was trying to say. Operators don't care about how fast and smooth the OS is, when they can push 1080p displays, 2 GB RAM and 4 cores.

WP8 was supposed to end this, but didn't.
Click to expand...

No one else in this thread seems to understand this. Microsoft blow the fucking doors off. Tegra, Snapdragon, Exynos, Intel.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
TTOOLL said:
I know it may appeal to some people, but not for all. Another fact is that WP doesn't need to participate in this hardware run. Android is not in the lead because of this, it is mostly because of cheap phones with TERRIBLE user experience. WP will never focus on specs nor will Apple. MS needs to focus on apps. Also, if the rest of the hardware is 2011 the camera alone is 2015, 16? It has no been surpassed yet.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, but his point is more about what mobile operators are pushing, the flagship phones that they highlight. And for them, its all about the specs.
 
C

Cipherr

Member
Yaceka said:
So guys... Nexus 4 or Lumia 620? I only use my phone mainly for podcasts, web browsing, texting, music listening, youtube, and the occasional game.
Click to expand...

Everyone is saying N4 by default; But truth is, considering the tasks you mentioned, either phone will do them equally well. You aren't going to need a powerful or extremely new phone for any of those uses.

So buy whichever is cheaper IMO.

hwalker84 said:
No one else in this thread seems to understand this. Microsoft blow the fucking doors off. Tegra, Snapdragon, Exynos, Intel.
Click to expand...

And for the love of Christ, raise the max resolution to something several generations ahead so that manufacturers can put their bleeding edge screens on their WP8 phones. Its ridiculous that this is happening again with 1080p.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
TTOOLL said:
I know it may appeal to some people, but not for all. Another fact is that WP doesn't need to participate in this hardware run. Android is not in the lead because of this, it is mostly because of cheap phones with TERRIBLE user experience. WP will never focus on specs nor will Apple. MS needs to focus on apps. Also, if the rest of the hardware is 2011 the camera alone is 2015, 16? It has no been surpassed yet.
Click to expand...

WP will always be behind the curve and I don't see a time when they'll be on par or ahead of anyone. I still remember people on the forum saying that they don't need dual core and that WP was performing as good as dual core Android devices. However, when WP8 got dual cores as well you can see the performance boost in dual core and more RAM so imagine what quad core and 2 GB of RAM can do for WP. It's nice to say that the OS is optimized and all that but most modern Android and iPhone devices also don't have performance issues and are relatively smooth so that advantage is gone now.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Cipherr said:
And for the love of Christ, raise the max resolution to something several generations ahead so that manufacturers can put their bleeding edge screens on their WP8 phones. Its ridiculous that this is happening again with 1080p.
Click to expand...

4K nao!

Razdek said:
WP will always be behind the curve and I don't see a time when they'll be on par or ahead of anyone. I still remember people on the forum saying that they don't need dual core and that WP was performing as good as dual core Android devices. However, when WP8 got dual cores as well you can see the performance boost in dual core and more RAM so imagine what quad core and 2 GB of RAM can do for WP. It's nice to say that the OS is optimized and all that but most modern Android and iPhone devices also don't have performance issues and are relatively smooth so that advantage is gone now.
Click to expand...

Actually, its because an A9 is a looot faster than Cortex A8 at the same speed. But yeah, the 2nd core helps a lot.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
ugh, might be another long night here. Do you think I can get 3 hours of sleep (to make a total of) three nights in a row? #WhatIDoToFinishMyAppForBetaSubmission
 
B

bigtroyjon

Member
campfireweekend said:
I just checked my old iPhone 4 and Ms. Splosion Man for iOS runs on iPad 2 and newer, iPhone 4 and newer, and iPad mini. And Microsoft couldn't get it to work on windows phone 8 or windows rt. It really is like the separate divisions of Microsoft never speak to one another. It really baffles my mind that rt doesn't get the age of empires HD port that they made, and that's it not even launching on the windows 8 store. Microsoft's new initiative is apparently services which manage to span a wide array of devices and different devices that manage to seamlessly speak with each other. Why should we pretend they're capable of such an initiative if even their own separate divisions are unable to.
Click to expand...

Windows Phone and Xbox is in the same division.
 
T

Troll

Banned
lastflowers said:
ugh, might be another long night here. Do you think I can get 3 hours of sleep (to make a total of) three nights in a row? #WhatIDoToFinishMyAppForBetaSubmission
Click to expand...

Think about all of the money you can make when it hits the proper marketplace with ad revenue! You can quit your day job!
 
K

kharma45

Member
brotkasten said:
A dual-core CPU, a gig of ram and a 720p display is 2011 hardware, like it or not.

I still can't believe I even tried to have this discussion. It's the exact same problem WP had before. It was a great experience on a single-core phone with 512 mb RAM and I still prefer it over my Nexus, but it makes it harder to sell. That's all I was trying to say. Operators don't care about how fast and smooth the OS is, when they can push 1080p displays, 2 GB RAM and 4 cores.

WP8 was supposed to end this, but didn't.
Click to expand...

Apart from dual core what phones had 1GB of RAM and HD screens in 2011? I can't recall any. Edit - There was the Galaxy Note in October 2011 but that is all I can see.

Brot you're totally obsessed with specs and it's getting extremely tiring. Most people don't go out and buy a phone because it is some sort of quad core behemoth under the hood or it has 2GB of RAM, they buy them based on what their friends have, the apps and the user experience.

Maybe it's different where you live too but networks pushing those specs? I've not seen it bar be minor bullet points on a spec list. The camera and screen are usually the two that are touted in most advertising.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
The Galaxy Nexus also had those specs in December 2011. I personally don't care about any of the quad core, 1080p phones announced so far. Still, those are the flagships that the networks are going to be pushing, that the blogs are going to be pimping, and that the influential nerds will be buying. Those nerds are the ones that people come to when they have no clue which phone to buy, and if they have a top of the line android phone, they will likely recommend some sort of android device to their friends and family.

edit: brot has a galaxy nexus, so I don't think its about him personally being spec obsessed but rather making an observation on MS not moving fast enough to certify new chassis for WP and thus the platform being behind, at least in perception if not actual end user experience.
 
E

Easy_D

never left the stone age
What the fuck? Microsoft, why? Why are you such assholes? At least I got a Nokia phone so there are some nice extras to be had..
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
The specs were bleeding edge in late 2011, so he's technically right. WP adopted those specs in late 2012. Then quad core and 1080p debuted late last year as bleeding edge and will likely hit WP in late 2013, so the same gap despite a new kernel that was supposed to allow a faster tech transition in terms of the spec race and make the platform more competitive. I think that's his point.

And with that, I'm done defending brot, lol.

At least I got a Nokia phone so there are some nice extras to be had
Click to expand...

Nokia released two more exclusive games this week, the whole Ms. Splosion Man thing is dumb on MS' part but is being blown out of proportion here I think.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
VanMardigan said:
I know, it just rings hollow when we've had the best stretch of new game releases since I've been on the platform. Since the beginning.

I mean, MS already has and will continue to pour more resources into their phone unit than is commensurate with the market share. They make dumb mistakes, sure, but this is just a silly thing to point to in terms of leaving the platform. It doesn't have any less support than when he chose to leave, the phone he left behind has had more meaningful updates since its release than the bevy of security updates on the iPhone 5 because apple is too stupid to secure a lock screen. MS and Nokia are supporting the platform and there are more updates headed our way. Support is not the issue, we can point to speed and app acquisition, even if we laugh when they do something dumb like release a game for IOS and 7.5 only.
Click to expand...

He drop Windows Phone after the debacle with poor battery life, buggy blue-tooth and other issues after Windows Phone 8 launch. I don't blame him, there are just so many redo you can give.

Microsoft is just way behind the curve and if they keep playing catch up well, they will never catch up because everyone else is always moving and moving faster (especially Google). WP don't have the apps and we don't need to be dealing with things like unable to change contact setting, volume control for phone and media, along with a lot of things that should be fix since 7.5. Many things got worst like wireless sync (gone), Zune sync (gone) and crappy experience with replacement Xbox Music/Video.

Windows Phone 8 should not only have all these fix, but they should have move the mobile to next step, but what we got was Kid's corner and customizable Start screen.

Have you gone into Setting on Windows Phone recently? It is the most messy, headache inducing and confusing Setting of any smartphones. I though Android was horrible but Windows Phone 8 setting is the most un-intuitive.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
What's so hard about the settings? It's just plain ass white text.

Never had any issue with it since WP7 launched.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
MCD said:
What's so hard about the settings? It's just plain ass white text.

Never had any issue with it since WP7 launched.
Click to expand...

It's confusing list of text, just like you know Windows. This is why people hate Windows. List and list of menu. It was fine in 7.5 but now in 8 you get even more option especially with Nokia phone. The storage setting is in two separate places, the screen settings also in two section, one for touch one for brightness, there are volume control and then separate section for Dolby and equalizer. I understand they want it so OEM can customize some of the setting but they could do way better as lay out. Now when you get into setting you have to scroll and scroll to find what you want in the wall of text.

You are telling me that's a great design? Especially for Windows Phone that tout it's "modern" and "intuitive" interface.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
MCD said:
I read somewhere that it can support 64 cores or so.

But please understand.
Click to expand...

That's what I thought. I think it was in one of the slides from the announcement last summer.

So it's not a OS limitation and I haven't heard about the RAM being limited to 1 gb, either.

I doubt that it would be very difficult to implement support for higher resolution, since they already support multiple resolution.

The logical conclusion is that the reason we haven't seen phones with quad cores and 1080p so far is because the manufacturers haven't released any, not because of the OS.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
antiquegamer said:
It's confusing list of text, just like you know Windows. This is why people hate Windows. List and list of menu. It was fine in 7.5 but now in 8 you get even more option especially with Nokia phone. The storage setting is in two separate places, the screen settings also in two section, one for touch one for brightness, there are volume control and then separate section for Dolby and equalizer. I understand they want it so OEM can customize some of the setting but they could do way better as lay out. Now when you get into setting you have to scroll and scroll to find what you want in the wall of text.

You are telling me that's a great design? Especially for Windows Phone that tout it's "modern" and "intuitive" interface.
Click to expand...

They could tidy it up for sure and group the obvious ones as you suggested.

But at the end of the day, it will still be a list of text.

Personally, I want the ability to sort it and a widget of sort to quickly and instantly toggle settings from the tiles themselves and not enter-back app like situation.
 
B

Blackhead

Redarse
hadareud said:
That's what I thought. I think it was in one of the slides from the announcement last summer.

So it's not a OS limitation and I haven't heard about the RAM being limited to 1 gb, either.

I doubt that it would be very difficult to implement support for higher resolution, since they already support multiple resolution.

The logical conclusion is that the reason we haven't seen phones with quad cores and 1080p so far is because the manufacturers haven't released any, not because of the OS.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Microsoft have to explicitly support new resolutions though?
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
hadareud said:
That's what I thought. I think it was in one of the slides from the announcement last summer.

So it's not a OS limitation and I haven't heard about the RAM being limited to 1 gb, either.

I doubt that it would be very difficult to implement support for higher resolution, since they already support multiple resolution.

The logical conclusion is that the reason we haven't seen phones with quad cores and 1080p so far is because the manufacturers haven't released any, not because of the OS.
Click to expand...

It's just MS moving at a slow and safe pace.

Why go for the high end stuff now when you can get some Android leftovers this fall? Said Joe Belfiore, the man behind kids corner.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Greyface said:
Doesn't Microsoft have to explicitly support new resolutions though?
Click to expand...

Sure, but since they already support multiple resolutions (some of them the same aspect ratio), I'd be surprised if they couldn't do it if one of the manufacturers requested it.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
MCD said:
Why go for the high end stuff now when you can get some Android leftovers this fall? Said Joe Belfiore, the man behind kids corner.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to just sit here and let you insult the honor of Joe Belfiore. Have you seen his hair? Seriously, how can you hate a man with hair like that? *swoons*.

Also, kids corner is awesome and my daughter loves it and its one of the best new features introduced last fall on any platform and every competing OS will have some sort of version in time.
 
P

PG2G

Member
hadareud said:
The logical conclusion is that the reason we haven't seen phones with quad cores and 1080p so far is because the manufacturers haven't released any, not because of the OS.
Click to expand...

HTC has complained publicly about the lack of 1080p support in Windows Phone so it is definitely not a manufacturer thing.

And what good is increasing RAM if the OS has fixed limits to the amount of background tasks or tombstones apps you can have?
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
2tNhNGr.png


Took longer than I wanted...maybe no sleep at all for me tonight. Makes it 11 hours in 4 nights? Nice.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
PG2G said:
HTC has complained publicly about the lack of 1080p support in Windows Phone so it is definitely not a manufacturer thing.

And what good is increasing RAM if the OS has fixed limits to the amount of background tasks or tombstones apps you can have?
Click to expand...

Have they?

I thought that that was just a rumour. There were no quotes or anything in the articles that I read. So maybe they've complained privately, that's possible.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
kharma45 said:
Apart from dual core what phones had 1GB of RAM and HD screens in 2011? I can't recall any. Edit - There was the Galaxy Note in October 2011 but that is all I can see.

Brot you're totally obsessed with specs and it's getting extremely tiring. Most people don't go out and buy a phone because it is some sort of quad core behemoth under the hood or it has 2GB of RAM, they buy them based on what their friends have, the apps and the user experience.

Maybe it's different where you live too but networks pushing those specs? I've not seen it bar be minor bullet points on a spec list. The camera and screen are usually the two that are touted in most advertising.
Click to expand...

I joined the WP game in December 2010 and if my LG didn't crap out on me in June last year, I would've bought a 920 or 8X. Personally, I do not care about specs and I put the user experience above that, which is why I avoided Android like the plague in the past (and I was still more satisfied with WP) and still prefer the WP UX. Again, specs mean nothing to me, but cutting edge devices are important for the perception of the eco system and devices. It is exactly like Van said in the post I quoted. Why is that so hard to understand?

WP8 was supposed to change that, but the phones are once again lagging behind and there's nothing the OEMs can do about. At least OS 7 had a legitimate reason for the mid- to low-end hardware.

VanMardigan said:
The Galaxy Nexus also had those specs in December 2011. I personally don't care about any of the quad core, 1080p phones announced so far. Still, those are the flagships that the networks are going to be pushing, that the blogs are going to be pimping, and that the influential nerds will be buying. Those nerds are the ones that people come to when they have no clue which phone to buy, and if they have a top of the line android phone, they will likely recommend some sort of android device to their friends and family.

edit: brot has a galaxy nexus, so I don't think its about him personally being spec obsessed but rather making an observation on MS not moving fast enough to certify new chassis for WP and thus the platform being behind, at least in perception if not actual end user experience.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! At least someone who gets what I'm saying.


hadareud said:
Do we actually know for a fact that WP8 doesn't support more than 2 cores?
Click to expand...

The OS itself is not bound to any specific anymore. That was strictly a WP7 thing, because it was based on the CE6 R3 kernel that didn't support more than 512 MB RAM or SMT. But OEM are still not free to put the OS on any hardware they want, because Microsoft is doesn't allow it. They give out the specs, to ensure the best possible the user experience, including battery life and all that (they have pretty much the same process with Windows RT devices). The result? HTC scrapped their 5" 1080p Windows Phone (likely a One variant) for H1 2013.
 
K

kharma45

Member
brotkasten said:
I joined the WP game in December 2010 and if my LG didn't crap out on me in June last year, I would've bought a 920 or 8X. Personally, I do not care about specs and I put the user experience above that, which is why I avoided Android like the plague in the past (and I was still more satisfied with WP) and still prefer the WP UX. Again, specs mean nothing to me, but cutting edge devices are important for the perception of the eco system and devices. It is exactly like Van said in the post I quoted. Why is that so hard to understand?

WP8 was supposed to change that, but the phones are once again lagging behind and there's nothing the OEMs can do about. At least OS 7 had a legitimate reason for the mid- to low-end hardware.
Click to expand...

Whilst true perceptions vary massively. Whilst many interested in tech will lust after quad core Android phones with their 1080p screens etc. most lay people really don't give a shit and will just listen to the marketing. If they're told it has an HD screen, fancy camera and a powerful CPU (be it dual or quad core) it's enough for them. Windows Phone isn't exactly lagging behind, the S4 is still very potent, 1GB RAM services the OS plenty and we've no real need for anything above 720p bar for vanity reasons. Hell even with high specs like on the HTC One it can't beat the Lumia 920 with it's 2011 hardware in Sunspider.

The vast majority don't care about specs all that much, it's all about brand.
 
T

thirty

Banned
In that sense, you can also say Samsung is releasing old hardware in the S4 due to its outdated camera. Nokia and HTC managed to have OIS in their flagships while Samsung has a "2011" camera.
 
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