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Windows Phone |OT3| Apollo has landed

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J

jagowar

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Tom Warren was suggesting that the removal of the back button is not surprising considering the assets Nokia brings across (ie Meego swipe).
Click to expand...

As long as it is consistent between the phone and windows I see it as a good thing, otherwise what is the point to make them look the same if the way you interact does not also follow. There was going to be a learning curve regardless but forcing people to relearn things multiple times is not going to help the cause.

I do hope gestures take over on both.... imo long term they are better because they do not require screen real estate to be used but they will take much more education of consumers.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
Razdek said:
More than 70% of smartphones use Android and they all have a back button. People know how to use a back button so why dumb it down for people? Microsoft is copying the wrong company and the more they try to be like Apple the more they're going to fail.
Click to expand...

I was just thinking this while reading this rumor. I don't buy the excuse that there's confusion over the back button and it's hardly used. You can only have so many apps opened at the same time so these people couldn't keep hitting the home button indefinitely. At some point they would have to hit the back button to close some apps, right?
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
dLMN8R said:
My favorite part was when he and Mary Jo were absolutely, totally convinced that Windows Blue was in development by the Windows SE team, and that the "real" Windows team was working on "Windows 9". And in his usual over-confident way, Paul suggested this as incontrovertible fact that was "obvious", and anyone who didn't agree with it was basically an idiot.
Click to expand...

Then may be your company should do a better job at dealing with your pundits and journalists that cover your products. You guys want to be a devices and services so you need people to like you and love your products to be that company. However, you and other MS rep here keep making comments like this is pretty much the core of your company problems. All this WE KNOW BETTER than you guys yet constantly putting out fumbling messages and directionless roadmaps of your products. Just wait, you don't know anything we have great thing for you and then put out half-bake or bug ridden OS like Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

Of course you know more about Microsoft than the three journalists that cover your product as it should, but why make fun of them. Your last post about Tom Warren was idiotic at best. That is their jobs, what part of that you guys don't seems to understand? Their jobs is to report, speculate and talk about Microsoft plan and futures, I never see so much hostility from company to the people that actually like and enjoy using your products. And yet your PR firm still coddle to the like of Josh and Mariam even though they openly pretty much constantly bash your products and your company and often time misrepresent them to make the competitor products that they favor seems better.

I love Microsoft products, I have four Windows computers, three Xbox 360s, two original Xbox and numerous Windows Phone, but never before have I feel how much out of touch you guys are with your real customers - the end users. You guys are constantly catering and bake your product in the secret even when the whole world telling you that they are the wrong decisions yet you guys still went ahead and now have to do 180 on everything from Start button to always on-line.

You guys at Microsoft always crying that no one love you and how unfair the whole world is to you guys well may be you should look closely and see why that is the case. Many of the criticism are misguided and just the pure "fanboys/girls" hatred of your company but others are really from people that do care and really like what you guys are doing so why treat them us like some kind of pests? Treat people that like your products better and may be they will spread the words and evangelize your products instead of having this sitting on the high horse mentality.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
antiquegamer said:
Then may be your company should do a better job at dealing with your pundits and journalists that cover your products. You guys want to be a devices and services so you need people to like you and love your products to be that company. However, you and other MS rep here keep making comments like this is pretty much the core of your company problems. All this WE KNOW BETTER than you guys yet constantly putting out fumbling messages and directionless roadmaps of your products. Just wait, you don't know anything we have great thing for you and then put out half-bake, bug ridden OS like Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

Of course you know more about Microsoft than the three journalists that cover your product as it should, but why make fun of them. Your last post about Tom Warren was idiotic at best. That is their jobs, what part of that you guys don't seems to understand. Their jobs is to report, speculate and talk about Microsoft plan and futures, I never see so much hostility from company to the people that actually like and enjoy using your products. And yet your PR firm still coddle to the like of Josh and Mariam even though they openly pretty much constantly bash your products and your company and often time misrepresent them to make the competitor products that they favor seems better.

I love Microsoft products, I have four Windows computer, three Xbox 360s, two original Xbox and numerous Windows Phone, but never before have I feel how much out of touch you guys are with your real customers - the end users. You guys are constantly catering and bake your product in the secret even when the whole world telling you that it is the wrong decision you guys still went ahead and then now have to do 180 on everything from Start button to always on-line.

You guys at Microsoft always crying that no one love you and how unfair the whole world is to you guys well may be you should look closely and see why that is the case. Many of the criticism are misguided and just the pure "fanboys/girls" hatred of your company but others are really from people that do care and really like what you guys are doing so why treat them us like some kind of pests? Treat people that like your products better and may be they will spread the words and evangelize your products instead of having this sitting on the high horse mentality.
Click to expand...

We’re definitely here and paying attention to what you folks are asking for… keep in mind the trick for us is balancing things that make EXISTING devices better for you, our enthusiast users, versus things that create new devices to sell to a broader audience. A lot of the work in GDR3 was around enabling new devices— like the Lumia 1520, Lumia 1320, etc. so that we could keep growing the size of the WP ecosystem. We need to grow the number of people using WP so we get ISVs writing the apps, we get better/more accessories built, etc.

Of course this takes time and energy, but we still do intend to improve the user experience for you via new features. There’s some in GDR 3 (eg. Extra Row of Tiles, 1080p support) there’s more coming later next year, and still more after that.

Don’t worry – we are listening to you folks!






I'm sorry, I just had to!
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
kharma45 said:
Nonsense. You might not like the direction Microsoft has taken with W8 and the slowness of WP8 development but they are far from bug ridden OSs.
Click to expand...

Mmm...no. WP8 launched with tons of bugs.

Constant freezing with bluetooth, reboots when 3g signal is weak, wifi sleeps after locking the screen...etc.

Windows 8 is no different.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
KageMaru said:
I was just thinking this while reading this rumor. I don't buy the excuse that there's confusion over the back button and it's hardly used. You can only have so many apps opened at the same time so these people couldn't keep hitting the home button indefinitely. At some point they would have to hit the back button to close some apps, right?
Click to expand...

No, why would they? The OS closes apps automatically anyway. Closing apps only makes sense when there's a buggy app that is draining battery or something. Otherwise, closing apps is completely unnecessary.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Yeah, WP is anything but bug ridden. It's probably the most rock solid OS I've ever used on any device.

Actually, not probably. Definitely.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
kharma45 said:
Nonsense. You might not like the direction Microsoft has taken with W8 and the slowness of WP8 development but they are far from bug ridden OSs.
Click to expand...

Really? An OS that randomly reboot the phone, can't properly play music files without random glitches and can't even play your own video files is not consider poor and bug ridden? and after 2nd reboot of the OS still doesn't do things that people tell you they want in an OS is not consider half-bake?

Windows 8 desktop side is awesome and stable, the Start Metro side is one mess of a product. I don't even understand how they think put the product out in that state with shoddy implementation of simple things like Mail App or Music App is a wonderful idea and a great way to make people like what they all already have horrible pre-conception of. I pin Outlook to my Metro because they native mail part of metro was so horribly implemented. I stop using Xbox Music, well you should know why if you use it.
 
K

kharma45

Member
MCD said:
Mmm...no. WP8 launched with tons of bugs.

Constant freezing with bluetooth, reboots when 3g signal is weak, wifi sleeps after locking the screen...etc.

Windows 8 is no different.
Click to expand...

That wasn't a bug, that was a feature ;)

Reboots with regards to 3G I never had in my time with WP8 (although it is ringing a bit of a bell now), nor any issues with Bluetooth. I've actually never heard of either of those issues. I did have a problem with my 620 where the phone would refuse to come out of sleep at times but I think it was a hardware bug in the end as when it came back from Nokia after getting the GPS fixed it stopped doing it.

As for W8 I'm yet to encounter any issues.nor really hear of any major bugs bar some issues with WiFi on laptops, but that could also be driver related rather than OS related.

antiquegamer said:
Really? An OS that randomly reboot the phone, can't properly play music files without random glitches and can't even play your own video files is not consider poor and bug ridden? and after reboot still doesn't do things that people tell you they want in an OS is not consider half-bake?

Windows 8 desktop side is awesome and stable, the Start Metro side is one mess of a products. I don't even understand how they think put the product out in that state with shoddy implementation of simple things like Mail App or Music App is a wonderful idea and a great way to make people like what they all already have horrible pre-conception of. I pin Outlook to my Metro because they native mail part of metro was so horribly implemented. I stop using Xbox Music, well you should know why if you use it.
Click to expand...

Badly made apps doesn't mean the OS itself is bug ridden.

I do remember vaguely about the reboot now as I said above, it was something I had forgotten about so I hold my hands up there. As for video files, not having the right codec support isn't a bug.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
MCD said:
Mmm...no. WP8 launched with tons of bugs.

Constant freezing with bluetooth, reboots when 3g signal is weak, wifi sleeps after locking the screen...etc.

Windows 8 is no different.
Click to expand...

By this measure, there is no such thing as a non-bug ridden OS. iOS7 and every version of Android has shipped with similar bugs.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
antiquegamer said:
Then may be your company should do a better job at dealing with your pundits and journalists that cover your products. You guys want to be a devices and services so you need people to like you and love your products to be that company. However, you and other MS rep here keep making comments like this is pretty much the core of your company problems. All this WE KNOW BETTER than you guys yet constantly putting out fumbling messages and directionless roadmaps of your products. Just wait, you don't know anything we have great thing for you and then put out half-bake or bug ridden OS like Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8.

Of course you know more about Microsoft than the three journalists that cover your product as it should, but why make fun of them. Your last post about Tom Warren was idiotic at best. That is their jobs, what part of that you guys don't seems to understand? Their jobs is to report, speculate and talk about Microsoft plan and futures, I never see so much hostility from company to the people that actually like and enjoy using your products. And yet your PR firm still coddle to the like of Josh and Mariam even though they openly pretty much constantly bash your products and your company and often time misrepresent them to make the competitor products that they favor seems better.

I love Microsoft products, I have four Windows computer, three Xbox 360s, two original Xbox and numerous Windows Phone, but never before have I feel how much out of touch you guys are with your real customers - the end users. You guys are constantly catering and bake your product in the secret even when the whole world telling you that they are the wrong decisions yet you guys still went ahead and now have to do 180 on everything from Start button to always on-line.

You guys at Microsoft always crying that no one love you and how unfair the whole world is to you guys well may be you should look closely and see why that is the case. Many of the criticism are misguided and just the pure "fanboys/girls" hatred of your company but others are really from people that do care and really like what you guys are doing so why treat them us like some kind of pests? Treat people that like your products better and may be they will spread the words and evangelize your products instead of having this sitting on the high horse mentality.
Click to expand...

I'm allowed to be frustrated with my company's own public messaging at the same time as I laugh at pundits who mis-report on things. I know that since I work for Microsoft it's inevitable that some people will consider my opinions some official word, which is why I'm pretty careful to not say anything interesting at all. But the fact is that I'm simply a dude who's sharing my own opinions.

The jobs of pundits is to report on information that they hear, and reasonably speculate about things they don't hear. What Tom did, on the other hand, is completely make up stuff he didn't hear, and now that stuff has spread as "fact" to pretty much every other tech blog on earth. It's not my job to correct him, commend him, or anything else. I'm simply amused, and pointing out to other people what he did wrong that's easily observable without providing any inside information.

What Thurrott did was funny, I was never really frustrated or annoyed by it. Thurrott's entire personality is funny (and a little sad). He always takes things so personally, accusing people of stealing his stuff without sourcing him (even though they may have their own sources), getting indignant about people who don't believe his rumors (even though they might not be true), and when things are officially announced, he always needs to make sure to phrase things like "AS I REPORTED ON BACK IN BLAH.....".

He's just so dang insecure. It's really really funny.


I'm pissed off that the Xbox team destroyed every semblance of goodwill they had since their announcement, and I'm still pissed that they continue to mess it up with the whole Kinect advertising thing. Me sharing my opinions about tech bloggers won't change any of that. And I'm certainly not going to reach out to tech bloggers as a separate source to nullify what they heard from their first sources, to correct what they heard. The Microsoft employees sharing this information with them should already be fired. I'm not going to be just as stupid and become another source of their's.
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
kharma45 said:
That wasn't a bug, that was a feature ;)

Reboots with regards to 3G I never had in my time with WP8, nor any issues with Bluetooth. I've actually never heard of either of those issues. I did have a problem with my 620 where the phone would refuse to come out of sleep at times but I think it was a hardware bug in the end as when it came back from Nokia after getting the GPS fixed it stopped doing it.

As for W8 I'm yet to encounter any issues.nor really hear of any major bugs bar some issues with WiFi on laptops, but that could also be driver related rather than OS related.
Click to expand...

Rebooting and Bluetooth issues are real. Just take a lot at Nokia forums or WPCentral, heck even the folks here had them if you go back and read some of the old posts.

W8 side was mostly the Metro one ie useless apps, half assed functions.

The desktop had some bugs like Devices Center not loading for like 10 min but overall it was stable enough.

VanMardigan said:
By this measure, there is no such thing as a non-bug ridden OS. iOS7 and every version of Android has shipped with similar bugs.
Click to expand...

Sure but iOS users don't wait months for a simple bug fix nor do they get ignored due to LOL CARRIERS.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
VanMardigan said:
No, why would they? The OS closes apps automatically anyway. Closing apps only makes sense when there's a buggy app that is draining battery or something. Otherwise, closing apps is completely unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Hmmm I've had a windows phone for almost 2 years and never knew this. Nevermind on my previous point on the limit of open apps and thanks for teaching me something new. =) Might be OCD but I always make sure an app is closed when not in use.

I still don't believe most don't get the logic behind the back button. Doesn't seem to be an issue for the millions of Android users.

edit:

Looks like GDR2 and Amber will hit AT&T 820 and 920 phones tomorrow.

http://m.wpcentral.com/att-says-gdr2-and-amber-update-ready-tomorrow
 
K

kharma45

Member
MCD said:
Rebooting and Bluetooth issues are real. Just take a lot at Nokia forums or WPCentral, heck even the folks here had them if you go back and read some of the old posts.

W8 side was mostly the Metro one ie useless apps, half assed functions.

The desktop had some bugs like Devices Center not loading for like 10 min but overall it was stable enough.
Click to expand...

I'm not denying they are, I said I remembered about the reboot issues now but with Bluetooth I didn't really know much.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
The only thing that was buggy for me to start with was the music app. Which is an app. At least it should be.

In nearly a year my phone has not even once rebooted or frozen or done anything of the sort. Despite using it as heavily as I've ever used any device before. There's never been any slowdown, either. Not even for a second.

The OS is absolutely rock solid.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
MCD said:
Sure but IO users don't wait months for a simple bug fix nor do they get ignored due to LOL CARRIERS.
Click to expand...

Even on AT&T, which is notoriously bad, the 920 got Portico, a random bug fix update, and GDR1. Apple has a special, magical relationship with the carriers that nobody else has, not even Google, so to claim that MS doesn't care because a carrier blocks an update is stupid. Samsung sells more phones than anybody and they depend on carriers as well. The only Android phones that get all updates are Nexus phones that you buy at full price directly from Google. I expect MS to have a similar program with their ex-Nokia division phones by next year.


KageMaru said:
Looks like GDR2 and Amber will hit AT&T 820 and 920 phones tomorrow.

http://m.wpcentral.com/att-says-gdr2-and-amber-update-ready-tomorrow
Click to expand...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand suck it MCD. Lol
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
dLMN8R said:
I'm allowed to be frustrated with my company's own public messaging at the same time as I laugh at pundits who mis-report on things. I know that since I work for Microsoft it's inevitable that some people will consider my opinions some official word, which is why I'm pretty careful to not say anything interesting at all. But the fact is that I'm simply a dude who's sharing my own opinions.

The jobs of pundits is to report on information that they hear, and reasonably speculate about things they don't hear. What Tom did, on the other hand, is completely make up stuff he didn't hear, and now that stuff has spread as "fact" to pretty much every other tech blog on earth. It's not my job to correct him, commend him, or anything else. I'm simply amused, and pointing out to other people what he did wrong that's easily observable without providing any inside information.

What Thurrott did was funny, I was never really frustrated or annoyed by it. Thurrott's entire personality is funny (and a little sad). He always takes things so personally, accusing people of stealing his stuff without sourcing him (even though they may have their own sources), getting indignant about people who don't believe his rumors (even though they might not be true), and when things are officially announced, he always needs to make sure to phrase things like "AS I REPORTED ON BACK IN BLAH.....".

He's just so dang insecure. It's really really funny.


I'm pissed off that the Xbox team destroyed every semblance of goodwill they had since their announcement, and I'm still pissed that they continue to mess it up with the whole Kinect advertising thing. Me sharing my opinions about tech bloggers won't change any of that. And I'm certainly not going to reach out to tech bloggers as a separate source to nullify what they heard from their first sources, to correct what they heard. The Microsoft employees sharing this information with them should already be fired. I'm not going to be just as stupid and become another source of their's.
Click to expand...

I am sorry, I really didn't mean to direct all the frustration at you and I understand that you are not Microsoft PR and do not speak for Microsoft as a whole. I am happy for the few of you guys that post here on GAF but you guys really, really need to work on your company messages. And treat your "real" customers better, rather than constantly cave in to your enterprise partner. I understand you do need them to succeed but end users are the one that will ultimately make or break this One Microsoft vision.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
Definitely understood, and no worries on any unintended frustration leveled toward me. Microsoft's best critics tend to be Microsoft's employees ;-) You'd have fun if you had access to internal discussion lists.

And if you ask enterprise customers, they'd tell you we're focusing too much on consumer!
 
M

Milchjon

Member
Is there a note-taking/to do list app with a good live tile? One that works on 7.8? I'd really like to have a constant reminder on my home screen.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
Bullza2o said:
But I just flashed my 920 a couple of days ago!

Eh, it's fine. At least I get Data Sense and GDR3 day one. :p
Click to expand...

Heh, well at least you know it's now unbranded and is good thing considering how long At&t "tested" the update. Data Sense is great especially if you have two teens that are constantly on You Tubes and think that LTE is their birthright.

I have to sit my son down the other day when he was complaining about our (56mbs) Wi-Fi, and tell him the "When I was your age, we have to put a phone handset on top of a cradle using 1200 baud modem" and that we wait hour for the cassette tape to load a program into 64kb of memory or installing games from 10 floppy disks.

My daughter really miss the Amber update since switching to the 820 but she wants to have LTE so she would be glad to get this update and have her glance screen back.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
October gdr2 means no gdr3 this year for at&t customers, right?

If the change log is good enough, I'll just flash the 1020.
 
P

PG2G

Member
As someone that has been feeling the effect of what appears to be an AT&T specific MMS issue (at least based on the chatter on reddit), I am kinda glad to hear that they are finding and fixing stuff.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
Milchjon said:
Is there a note-taking/to do list app with a good live tile? One that works on 7.8? I'd really like to have a constant reminder on my home screen.
Click to expand...

7.8? Microsoft and developers abandoned it a long time ago and all you're going to get is the odd facebook app update. I don't even think WP 8 has a good one with a live tile.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
KageMaru said:
Looks like GDR2 and Amber will hit AT&T 820 and 920 phones tomorrow.

http://m.wpcentral.com/att-says-gdr2-and-amber-update-ready-tomorrow
Click to expand...

115242.gif
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Speaking of which, if AT&T delivering GDR2 is real which I still doubt, does it improve battery life on the 920? My battery life was always fine, but this new version of Facebook probably reduces by battery life by a solid 30% (it did the same thing when the 5.1 build string hit the beta, which lead me to uninstall the beta in favor of the normal one).
 
Z

zedge

Member
So the Bing sports app lets you pin your teams to the start screen.. However there is no live tile, no score or current game, nothing.. Does MS not get WP? smh
 
R

Razdek

Banned
zedge said:
So the Bing sports app lets you pin your teams to the start screen.. However there is no live tile, no score or current game, nothing.. Does MS not get WP? smh
Click to expand...

Good ideas, half ass implementation is the philosophy the WP team abides by. Wait till WP 8.1...
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
I remember couple of people here bought the Nokia wireless car charger and report that they break easily. My phone holder for my car broke and I was thinking about just go with the wireless charger one but unsure about the quality. Did you guys that have them are still happy with it?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I have one. It did break a bit very quickly (the cogwheels inside came apart or something, so you can't actually snap it in place anymore), but it's still working somewhat, even though the phone is a bit loose in there now. Not loose enough for it to actually fall out of it or anything.

I never bothered to send it back out of sheer laziness.
 
B

Bob Dobalina

Member
I saw the news about 8.1 removing the back button this morning, and I think its a good idea along with removing the search button and some work to get a consistent user interface on future phones and tablets.

We already know how HTC will approach the problem:
os5wDhQ.jpg
 
G

Goku

Banned
How would multitasking even work, holding back the back button brings up the cards right? They should have adressed the dedicated search button, it's useless. Maybe it has some use in the US but where I'm from a lot of Bing services aren't availible, rendering it actually useless. The seearch button should have the same functionality as the search charm in Windows 8, which is actually useful.
 
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