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Windows Phone |OT3| Apollo has landed

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M

MCD

Junior Member
Universal binaries. Microsoft is currently pushing the notion of universal binaries that would let developers create a single app that can run both on Windows RT and Windows Phone. This is opt-in because of size issues, apparently, but could eventually become a requirement. Where Windows Phone 8 has 33 percent "API unity" with Windows RT, Windows Phone 8.1 will hit 77 percent.

Multitasking. Microsoft has supposedly flagged multitasking as Windows Phone's biggest technical issue. GDR3 will fix some issues—it will let users manually close apps, for example—but notifications and background processes are a mess and quite inefficient. These issues will apparently be addressed by 8.1.

Bigger screens. Where GDR3 is widely expected to support 5- to 6-inch screens, 8.1 will supposedly support 7- to 10-inch screens as well. This obviously infringes on Windows RT/8.x tablets, so it's not clear what the thinking is there.

No more Back button. Aping the iPhone navigation model, Microsoft will apparently remove the Back button from the Windows Phone hardware specification with 8.1. The Back button just doesn't make sense, I was told: Users navigate away from an app by pressing the Start button and then open a new app, just like they do on iPhone. And the "back stack" is ill-understood by users: Most don't realize what they're doing when they repeatedly hit the Back button.

Low-cost/volume vs. High-cost/luxury. With the Lumia 520 and 620, Windows Phone has found its niche in the low end of the market. This has helped sales, but Microsoft has always wanted to position Windows Phone as a high-end system like iPhone, which is where the money is. Obviously, they're not going to walk away from market share gains, but low-end phones have technical limitations that harm the platform's forward progress. And this is what sank Windows PC sales when the netbook arrived. The push to 1080p screens and bigger devices will determine whether Windows Phone can break out of this mold.
Click to expand...

http://winsupersite.com/windows-phone/windows-phone-81-rumors-emerge

NO BACK BUTTON JOE PLEASE
 
P

PG2G

Member
Pretty much every app would need to be redesigned if they remove the back button without adding a gesture to do the same thing.

I do agree that the whole back stack thing is probably the least intuitive part of WP though.
 
J

jagowar

Member
Seems stupid to remove the back button if they are keeping the other buttons there.... will just be wasted space. Hopefully they are going to mimick that functionality with gestures.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
PG2G said:
Pretty much every app would need to be redesigned if they remove the back button without adding a gesture to do the same thing.

I do agree that the whole back stack thing is probably the least intuitive part of WP though.
Click to expand...

They revised the multitask screen to include a 'X' so the user knows to hit it to close the app. Now they're going to remove a visible button that all the apps use and replace it with a gesture? That makes no sense at all. What UX design are they following because it seems to be all over the place.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
Razdek said:
They revised the multitask screen to include a 'X' so the user knows to hit it to close the app. Now they're going to remove a visible button that all the apps use and replace it with a gesture? That makes no sense at all. What UX design are they following because it seems to be all over the place.
Click to expand...

Metro and its design guidelines died a while ago.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I use the back button a ton, but my co worker, wife, and my mother don't. At all. I don't think either one has every used the multitasking screen either, even after I showed my wife how to access it.

I have no idea how apps would work without it, and then they'd have to get rid of the Bing button, which is even more useless right now. I'd hope that, instead of removing those buttons, they add functionality to them instead.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
More than 70% of smartphones use Android and they all have a back button. People know how to use a back button so why dumb it down for people? Microsoft is copying the wrong company and the more they try to be like Apple the more they're going to fail.
 
S

Speedy Blue Dude

Banned
Oh god please don't remove the Back Button Microsoft. It just feels so good actually having to touch it to go back in IE. I live the Back, Windows, and Search buttons. :(
 
O

Opus Angelorum

Member
The only thing I don't like about the back button is that when switching programs it will sometimes forget the 'history' and just close the app...rather than go backwards within. If that makes sense.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
They're actually just getting rid of the touchscreen and buttons. The FFC is a Kinect sensor and you can only use the device by voice and waving at it like you do currently on Xbox.

Opus Angelorum said:
The only thing I don't like about the back button is that when switching programs it will sometimes forget the 'history' and just close the app...rather than go backwards within. If that makes sense.
Click to expand...

^ is annoying, definitely
 
Z

zedge

Member
lastflowers said:
They're actually just getting rid of the touchscreen and buttons. The FFC is a Kinect sensor and you can only use the device by voice and waving at it like you do currently on Xbox.
Click to expand...
I think I was suppose to laugh at this..I'm not.. :/

Wouldnt surprise me.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
“We’re definitely here and paying attention to what you folks are asking for… keep in mind the trick for us is balancing things that make EXISTING devices better for you, our enthusiast users, versus things that create new devices to sell to a broader audience. A lot of the work in GDR3 was around enabling new devices— like the Lumia 1520, Lumia 1320, etc. so that we could keep growing the size of the WP ecosystem. We need to grow the number of people using WP so we get ISVs writing the apps, we get better/more accessories built, etc.

Of course this takes time and energy, but we still do intend to improve the user experience for you via new features. There’s some in GDR 3 (eg. Extra Row of Tiles, 1080p support) there’s more coming later next year, and still more after that.

Don’t worry – we are listening to you folks!"

- Joe Belfiore (WP Team)
Click to expand...

mj-laughing.gif
 
n64coder

n64coder

Member
Low-cost/volume vs. High-cost/luxury. With the Lumia 520 and 620, Windows Phone has found its niche in the low end of the market. This has helped sales, but Microsoft has always wanted to position Windows Phone as a high-end system like iPhone, which is where the money is. Obviously, they're not going to walk away from market share gains, but low-end phones have technical limitations that harm the platform's forward progress. And this is what sank Windows PC sales when the netbook arrived. The push to 1080p screens and bigger devices will determine whether Windows Phone can break out of this mold.
Click to expand...

The 620 was my only option in the shop at aiowireless.com. I could have spent another $100/$200 if there was a better phone option available.

One of the concerns I have about gmail/windows phone is the thing I keep hearing that Google will be turning off EAS (exchange active sync) but they keep postponing it. What does this mean for the gmail user using WP?
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
n64coder said:
The 620 was my only option in the shop at aiowireless.com. I could have spent another $100/$200 if there was a better phone option available.

One of the concerns I have about gmail/windows phone is the thing I keep hearing that Google will be turning off EAS (exchange active sync) but they keep postponing it. What does this mean for the gmail user using WP?
Click to expand...

it would just mean you can't get push email, the option 'sync as items arrive'. Instead email will sync after intervals. I think the lowest is 15 minutes?
 
P

PG2G

Member
Razdek said:
They revised the multitask screen to include a 'X' so the user knows to hit it to close the app. Now they're going to remove a visible button that all the apps use and replace it with a gesture? That makes no sense at all. What UX design are they following because it seems to be all over the place.
Click to expand...

Both of these changes put it closer in line with Windows RT. If they are planning to unify everything I guess we should expect this sort of thing to happen.

I just hope they know better than to expect every developer to update their app immediately (if ever)
 
M

MCD

Junior Member
I still don't know why a big X button instead of, you know, your Windows 8 swipe down to close gesture.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I prefer the x, less work.

Also surely a lot quicker to close multiple apps. It would be nice to have an x in w8 too in the side view.

Getting rid of the back button is a horrible, horrible idea. All apps would have to be redesigned. I foresee a future where 80 % of the apps I use won't properly work anymore for months.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
PG2G said:
Both of these changes put it closer in line with Windows RT. If they are planning to unify everything I guess we should expect this sort of thing to happen.

I just hope they know better than to expect every developer to update their app immediately (if ever)
Click to expand...

You close an app in Windows RT by dragging it from the top to the bottom. The GDR3 way is to hit the 'X' to close an app so not sure how they would be the same. Shouldn't a gesture to flick the app up or down be more inline with Windows RT? I agree with you that they better hope they know what they're doing because there's going to a lot of angry developers and users if not.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
It should be mentioned that Paul Thurrot is not always right. He's good sources and I'm not denying that, but he doesn't always get everything right (sometimes even because of his own misinterpretation). I know for a fact that at least on one occasion someone from MS fed with with nonsense just for fun.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
brotkasten said:
It should be mentioned that Paul Thurrot is not always right. He's good sources and I'm not denying that, but he doesn't always get everything right (sometimes even because of his own misinterpretation). I know for a fact that at least on one occasion someone from MS fed with with nonsense just for fun.
Click to expand...

This

However, ff there is a merger between RT and WP apps down the line, apps will most likely need a redesign anyways. No hardware back button on tablets.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
The fact that they won't require the back button alone, doesn't mean much. With the maximum screen size moving up to 10" that might only really affect tablets (which don't normally have back buttons). And I suspect the back buttons on the existing devices that will all get 8.1 will still work.
With Windows Phone and Windows moving closer together they could also work on assimilating some of the interactions and introduce e.g. edge swipes to Windows Phone.

Whatever they are doing, for now I still have faith that they won't fuck up 8.1.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I don't think that merging the two necessarily has to mean that everything becomes identical.

At least it shouldn't imo.
 
S

SCHUEY F1

Unconfirmed Member
Tom Warren was suggesting that the removal of the back button is not surprising considering the assets Nokia brings across (ie Meego swipe).
 
P

PG2G

Member
Razdek said:
You close an app in Windows RT by dragging it from the top to the bottom. The GDR3 way is to hit the 'X' to close an app so not sure how they would be the same. Shouldn't a gesture to flick the app up or down be more inline with Windows RT? I agree with you that they better hope they know what they're doing because there's going to a lot of angry developers and users if not.
Click to expand...

Windows RT has a multitasking Window similar to Windows Phone 8. You close apps there without a gesture.

Swipe down to close an app doesn't fit a device you hold one handed when the sizes keep growing. I would not be able to comfortably do a swipe down one handed on my Lumia 920 and I don't have small hands. I also don't know how well swiping apps in from the side would work. I think its best if they stick to the current card based menu.
 
P

PG2G

Member
maeh2k said:
The fact that they won't require the back button alone, doesn't mean much. With the maximum screen size moving up to 10" that might only really affect tablets (which don't normally have back buttons). And I suspect the back buttons on the existing devices that will all get 8.1 will still work.
Click to expand...

You make a good point
 
juliushandle

juliushandle

Member
SCHUEY F1 said:
Tom Warren was suggesting that the removal of the back button is not surprising considering the assets Nokia brings across (ie Meego swipe).
Click to expand...
Meego? WP will work more like W8.

I see nothing wrong with that. Other than it makes me not wanna buy a GDR3 device.

edit: I'll probably buy a Surface 2 or the Nokia tablet rather than upgrade my 920.
 
D

dLMN8R

Member
brotkasten said:
It should be mentioned that Paul Thurrot is not always right. He's good sources and I'm not denying that, but he doesn't always get everything right (sometimes even because of his own misinterpretation). I know for a fact that at least on one occasion someone from MS fed with with nonsense just for fun.
Click to expand...

My favorite part was when he and Mary Jo were absolutely, totally convinced that Windows Blue was in development by the Windows SE team, and that the "real" Windows team was working on "Windows 9". And in his usual over-confident way, Paul suggested this as incontrovertible fact that was "obvious", and anyone who didn't agree with it was basically an idiot.
 
L

lastflowers

Banned
dLMN8R said:
My favorite part was when he and Mary Jo were absolutely, totally convinced that Windows Blue was in development by the Windows SE team, and that the "real" Windows team was working on "Windows 9". And in his usual over-confident way, Paul suggested this as incontrovertible fact that was "obvious", and anyone who didn't agree with it was basically an idiot.
Click to expand...

:lol
 
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