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Windows Phone |OT3| Apollo has landed

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B

brotkasten

Member
The Faceless Master said:
in both cases, a company is holding back their proprietary technology from the other in certain ways. the difference is Youtube works on WP8 devices without any contractual agreements or money changing hands, while in the other case, MS wants to assert control on a filesystem. and why wouldn't any forward thinking consumer be upset at the debacle of the ridiculous situation on filesystem support for their 64GB SDXC cards?should we just wash our hands of this situation and put the soap back in a box? why doesn't Microsoft just build their own Youtube? Apple did that with Maps when they couldn't come to terms with Google! Hell, lets talk about Microsoft... look at their recent launch for Outlook on Android... SHIT RENAMED OLD APP. SmartGlass.... SHIT BLOATED APP that has device restrictions that don't even make sense. and it's not a recent trend or even Android exclusive, some of their relaunched iOS apps didn't support the iPhone 5! Why should Google give special support and access to a company that puts out substandard apps of their own IP on other platforms?

tldr; Google doesn't block Youtube on WP8, why do they have to give MS special API access to make an app for it?
Click to expand...

They tried. It was called MSN Soapbox.

Soapbox on MSN Video was a service from Microsoft via its MSN portal. It is similar to YouTube in that it is an internet video-sharing service. As of December 17, 2006, it was an invitation-only beta. In February 2007 it entered public beta.

...

MSN Soapbox has been compared to YouTube. A major difference between YouTube and MSN Soapbox is that Soapbox states in its privacy policy that use of copyrighted material is not allowed and will be deleted. YouTube has that policy, but copyrighted material is still present on the site, because YouTube leaves the responsibility of finding copyrighted material in the hands of the copyright holder.

...

On July 21, 2009, it was announced that Microsoft will be closing the service to uploads at the end of July. The service closed entirely at the end of August 2009
Click to expand...

Never heard of it? Don't worry, nobody did.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
Damon Bennet said:
and tbh "ooooh they destroyed netscape ermergerd" is such an 80s hate thing. Back then that might have been a scandal, today it is the norm. times change
Click to expand...
I still remember when Apple denied apps that were "too similar" to Apple apps, like a web browser or the Wi-Fi sync app.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
NeOak said:
Great, so lets punish Nintendo for their years of oppressive developer relationships, or SCEA for their shitty politics towards 2D games, or Apple for their years of iTunes DRM that no one could license and made the iPod so successful.

Stop the selective and hypocritical BS.

You don't like their products? Fine, don't use them. But don't come here and tell us that we have to do a penance for whatever MS did 15 years ago by being treated like a pariah by a company that has a damn "Do no evil" motto.
Click to expand...

While I have no love for Microsoft monopoly bulshit back then, it is amazing how both Apple and Google get a pass from the government. Microsoft have to operate under all the bullshit restriction while both Google and Apple go free to do whatever they want with their monopoly in their respective market.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
antiquegamer said:
While I have no love for Microsoft monopoly bulshit back then, it is amazing how both Apple and Google get a pass from the government. Microsoft have to operate under all the bullshit restriction while both Google and Apple go free to do whatever they want with their monopoly in their respective market.
Click to expand...

Gotta love Google's open tax evasion.
 
tfur

tfur

Member
HollovVpo1nt said:
We might as well stop import of German products because of WWI an II.

What happened in the past is irrelevant.
Click to expand...

NeOak said:
Great, so lets punish Nintendo for their years of oppressive developer relationships, or SCEA for their shitty politics towards 2D games, or Apple for their years of iTunes DRM that no one could license and made the iPod so successful.

Stop the selective and hypocritical BS.

You don't like their products? Fine, don't use them. But don't come here and tell us that we have to do a penance for whatever MS did 15 years ago by being treated like a pariah by a company that has a damn "Do no evil" motto.
Click to expand...

Past? The past being this last year as well. Go check the legal sites for details about their Barnes & Noble strong arming, or any of their other open cases. Or how they force people into licensing. Just because you don't follow it, doesn't mean it still is not happening. Also, the terms of their settlement from the DoJ cases just ended in 2011; a period where they were forced to play nice in certain areas. Fuck, just a few years ago they said they owned part of Linux, and that there was copywritten code in the Linux kernel. Of course, they never would tell anyone where, when asked...

Nobody mentioned penance... Just a possible reason for just and deserved payback.

This is probably not the thread to rehash MS history.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
tfur said:
Past? The past being this last year as well. Go check the legal sites for details about their Barnes & Noble strong arming, or any of their other open cases. Or how they force people into licensing. Just because you don't follow it, doesn't mean it still is not happening. Also, the terms of their settlement from the DoJ cases just ended in 2011; a period where they were forced to play nice in certain areas. Fuck, just a few years ago they said they owned part of Linux, and that there was copywritten code in the Linux kernel. Of course, they never would tell anyone where, when asked...
Click to expand...

In Major Victory, Google Dodges Federal Antitrust Lawsuit with FTC Deal

Google settles FTC lawsuit over use of Motorola patents

Should I link more?

And aren't you thinking of SCO? Because i searched for it and what i found was:

Pigs do fly: Microsoft unleashes 20,000 lines of Linux code

tfur said:
Nobody mentioned penance... Just a possible reason for just and deserved payback.

This is probably not the thread to rehash MS history.
Click to expand...

WTF? GTFO and stop the in-your-mind "just and deserved payback". We, the goddamned costumers, are the ones paying for it.
 
tfur

tfur

Member
NeOak said:
In Major Victory, Google Dodges Federal Antitrust Lawsuit with FTC Deal

Google settles FTC lawsuit over use of Motorola patents

Should I link more?

And aren't you thinking of SCO? Because i searched for it and what i found was:

Pigs do fly: Microsoft unleashes 20,000 lines of Linux code




WTF? GTFO and stop the in-your-mind "just and deserved payback". We, the goddamned costumers, are the ones paying for it.
Click to expand...

Yeah man, this is not the thread. Those links about Google settling because of ad placement, pale in comparison to actual cases and judgements. Go do a search on Microsoft litigation. I guess most people don't know.

No, the sco shit was disgusting, but this is what I was referring to:
http://www.google.com/search?q=microsoft+linux+235+patents&oq=microsoft+linux+235+patents&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

I don't know why the payback notion bothers you. Do you not believe there are people at Google and other companies that feel this way? Also, you the customer, can use the free and functional website.
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
tfur said:
I don't know why the payback notion bothers you. Do you not believe there are people at Google and other companies that feel this way? Also, you the customer, can use the free and functional website.
Click to expand...

Linus: Microsoft Hatred is a Disease

Linus Torvalds said:
I'm a big believer in "technology over politics". I don't care who it comes from, as long as there are solid reasons for the code, and as long as we don't have to worry about licensing etc issues.

I may make jokes about Microsoft at times, but at the same time, I think the Microsoft hatred is a disease. I believe in open development, and that very much involves not just making the source open, but also not shutting other people and companies out.

There are 'extremists' in the free software world, but that's one major reason why I don't call what I do 'free software' any more. I don't want to be associated with the people for whom it's about exclusion and hatred."
Click to expand...

You just come how its "fair" for us, costumers, to be excluded for no technical reason (Apple has access to an API that MS has been asking to get access to for building a native WP Youtube app).

You believe that shutting us out is "justified", but your reasons are basically what Linus calls "hatred".
 
tfur

tfur

Member
NeOak said:
Linus: Microsoft Hatred is a Disease



You just come how its "fair" for us, costumers, to be excluded for no technical reason (Apple has access to an API that MS has been asking to get access to for building a native WP Youtube app).

You believe that shutting us out is "justified", but your reasons are basically what Linus calls "hatred".
Click to expand...

Who said hate? Treating a company or a person the same way they treat others is not hate.

Also, I thought you or anyone else could create a YouTube application right now. Is this not the case? I thought someone mentioned a great and superior app. Why does Google have to help in any way create a first party app with a competitor?
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
NeOak said:
Linus: Microsoft Hatred is a Disease



You just come how its "fair" for us, costumers, to be excluded for no technical reason (Apple has access to an API that MS has been asking to get access to for building a native WP Youtube app).

You believe that shutting us out is "justified", but your reasons are basically what Linus calls "hatred".
Click to expand...

Google is merely engaging in competition with a competitor. You are free to use an iOS or Android device. I don't understand how Microsoft of all companies is actually portraying themselves as being bullied by Google, it's Microsoft for God's sakes. Microsoft still controls 95%+ of the world PC market last I checked with Windows and have an unspecified but equally dominant position in PC workspace software with Office. I find any argument that Google is unfairly excluding anyone to be downright offensive when Microsoft are the ones pulling crap like Scroogled, #droidrage, Smoked by Windows Phone, and other equally inane anti-Google attacks.

In fact Microsoft's obsession with Google is what should be questioned here. Microsoft created an entire search engine and poured billions of dollars into it just to try and crush Google and nobody even knows why. It's not as if Google Search is somehow a threat to Microsoft's monopoly positions in Windows and Office, but how much money have they spent on Bing and for what useful purpose? If I were a Microsoft shareholder I would be leading a riot at the annual meeting against Ballmer, who has spent billions chasing other companies for no apparent reason with things like Bing, and Zune, and Kin, and now Windows Phone. They keep pouring money down the toilet and flushing it pursuing some kind of pointless vendetta against Google and then they have the temerity to cry and whine when Google doesn't support their competing platform with an app that they don't owe anybody. It's fucking ludicrous, I feel like I'm watching Fox News when I see people defending Microsoft on the Internet. Google is the aggrieved party here and Microsoft is the aggressor. If Microsoft wants Google to cooperate with them, they can start by admitting that Bing exists solely to try and crush Google and shut it down. Negotiations can start from there.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
PG2G said:
Decades of strong arming following by decades of playing as fair and open as possible. As strange as it sounds, Microsoft is doing a far better job of being open than most of the other companies at the moment.
Click to expand...
like the open way they banned some dude's xbox 360 and gamertag/live/passport account for playing a legitimate game early?
or the open way they browse people's private Skydrive files for porn?



NeOak said:
Microsoft has been trying for 2 years to build their own Youtube app but Google doesn't allow them to get access to the same API Apple has access to.

That is what we are complaining about.
Click to expand...
i didn't say "app"



NeOak said:
Great, so lets punish Nintendo for their years of oppressive developer relationships, or SCEA for their shitty politics towards 2D games, or Apple for their years of iTunes DRM that no one could license and made the iPod so successful.

Stop the selective and hypocritical BS.

You don't like their products? Fine, don't use them. But don't come here and tell us that we have to do a penance for whatever MS did 15 years ago by being treated like a pariah by a company that has a damn "Do no evil" motto.
Click to expand...
call up the EU and get the sanctions rolling... Apple is dealing with their price collusion fiasco and Google is dealing with their Books and Streetview/Wifi data/blabla fiasco.




brotkasten said:
They tried. It was called MSN Soapbox.

Never heard of it? Don't worry, nobody did.
Click to expand...
did you miss the last bit of the line before the one you bolded? :p
 
NeOak

NeOak

Member
tfur said:
Who said hate? Treating a company or a person the same way they treat others is not hate.

Also, I thought you or anyone else could create a YouTube application right now. Is this not the case? I thought someone mentioned a great and superior app. Why does Google have to help in any way create a first party app with a competitor?
Click to expand...

Metrotube, and any other app in WP for youtube, has to use tricks to enable HD playback and access to other stuff from our youtube accounts. Google allows Apple access to a private API for that.

That is why everytime Google changes something, those applications break and they gotta update them.

Unknown Soldier said:
Google is merely engaging in competition with a competitor. You are free to use an iOS or Android device. I don't understand how Microsoft of all companies is actually portraying themselves as being bullied by Google, it's Microsoft for God's sakes. Microsoft still controls 95%+ of the world PC market last I checked with Windows and have an unspecified but equally dominant position in PC workspace software with Office. I find any argument that Google is unfairly excluding anyone to be downright offensive when Microsoft are the ones pulling crap like Scroogled, #droidrage, Smoked by Windows Phone, and other equally inane anti-Google attacks.

In fact Microsoft's obsession with Google is what should be questioned here. Microsoft created an entire search engine and poured billions of dollars into it just to try and crush Google and nobody even knows why. It's not as if Google Search is somehow a threat to Microsoft's monopoly positions in Windows and Office, but how much money have they spent on Bing and for what useful purpose? If I were a Microsoft shareholder I would be leading a riot at the annual meeting against Ballmer, who has spent billions chasing other companies for no apparent reason with things like Bing, and Zune, and Kin, and now Windows Phone. They keep pouring money down the toilet and flushing it pursuing some kind of pointless vendetta against Google and then they have the temerity to cry and whine when Google doesn't support their competing platform with an app that they don't owe anybody. It's fucking ludicrous, I feel like I'm watching Fox News when I see people defending Microsoft on the Internet. Google is the aggrieved party here and Microsoft is the aggressor. If Microsoft wants Google to cooperate with them, they can start by admitting that Bing exists solely to try and crush Google and shut it down. Negotiations can start from there.
Click to expand...

What? How is asking Google to give access to an API that already exists related to Bing?

The Faceless Master said:
like the open way they banned some dude's xbox 360 and gamertag/live/passport account for playing a legitimate game early?
or the open way they browse people's private Skydrive files for porn?
Click to expand...

I guess you missed the thread where someone from the XBL team said it was a mistake and everyone who played a legitimate copy was unbanned.

The same way Google scans your emails in Gmail. Every cloud provider scans files for shit. Just ask Amazon.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
NeOak said:
Linus: Microsoft Hatred is a Disease



You just come how its "fair" for us, costumers, to be excluded for no technical reason (Apple has access to an API that MS has been asking to get access to for building a native WP Youtube app).

You believe that shutting us out is "justified", but your reasons are basically what Linus calls "hatred".
Click to expand...

had.

Apple dropped Youtube remember?



NeOak said:
I guess you missed the thread where someone from the XBL team said it was a mistake and everyone who played a legitimate copy was unbanned.

The same way Google scans your emails in Gmail. Every cloud provider scans files for shit. Just ask Amazon.
Click to expand...
yep, i missed that thread. the last i read, "legitimate copy" meant 'played the game on release day or after' and not 'legitimate copy', but i'd like to see that update. link?
 
P

PG2G

Member
Apple dropped Youtube because they didn't want to pay, not because Google revoked their access. Microsoft would likely have no problem paying, but Google won'e take their money. There is a HUGE difference.

I think the government really needs to start taking a look at this sort of thing and the potential ecosystem wars and try to put things in place to protect consumers. What we really need is the equivalent of FRAND when it comes to web based services. The difficulty would be determining which services apply.

Honestly, suggesting that the current situation is fine is like suggesting that the days we couldn't port our phone numbers from one carrier to another were fine too.
 
B

buhdeh

Member
PG2G said:
Apple dropped Youtube because they didn't want to pay, not because Google revoked their access. Microsoft would likely have no problem paying, but Google won'e take their money. There is a HUGE difference.

I think the government really needs to start taking a look at this sort of thing and the potential ecosystem wars and try to put things in place to protect consumers. What we really need is the equivalent of FRAND when it comes to web based services. The difficulty would be determining which services apply.

Honestly, suggesting that the current situation is fine is like suggesting that the days we couldn't port our phone numbers from one carrier to another were fine too.
Click to expand...

How's that going to work if youtube is still fully accessible via their mobile site? It's not like they're withholding the entire service from people.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
PG2G said:
Apple dropped Youtube because they didn't want to pay, not because Google revoked their access. Microsoft would likely have no problem paying, but Google won'e take their money. There is a HUGE difference.
Click to expand...

I'm sure Google will get right on it as soon as Microsoft ceases their attacks on Google.

I think the government really needs to start taking a look at this sort of thing and the potential ecosystem wars and try to put things in place to protect consumers. What we really need is the equivalent of FRAND when it comes to web based services. The difficulty would be determining which services apply.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand what FRAND is or why it exists. FRAND exists because essential technology required to make technology required for human society to function today is often patented. For example, most of the basic radio technology that makes a cellular phone possible is patented. The company which invented the modern mobile phone (Motorola) holds many of these patents, and if Motorola couldn't be forced to license these patents to anybody who wants them on fair and equal terms, the modern cellular telephone network literally could not exist.

To even equate FRAND with something trivial and stupid like having an official YouTube app for your smartphone or not is pretty insulting to the intelligence of the GAF reader.

Honestly, suggesting that the current situation is fine is like suggesting that the days we couldn't port our phone numbers from one carrier to another were fine too.
Click to expand...

One has absolutely not a single thing to do with the other.
 
P

PG2G

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
I don't think you understand what FRAND is or why it exists. FRAND exists because essential technology required to make technology required for human society to function today is often patented. For example, most of the basic radio technology that makes a cellular phone possible is patented. The company which invented the modern mobile phone (Motorola) holds many of these patents, and if Motorola couldn't be forced to license these patents to anybody who wants them on fair and equal terms, the modern cellular telephone network literally could not exist.

To even equate FRAND with something trivial and stupid like having an official YouTube app for your smartphone or not is pretty insulting to the intelligence of the GAF reader.
Click to expand...

I didn't mean that it was completely similar to FRAND. I'm just suggesting that services are becoming more and more important in people's lives and allowing companies to control these to harm competition is going to prevent the smartphone market from going where it could go.

And I'm not talking about them being forced to create an official app. I'm talking about them providing access so that a third party can.

Unknown Soldier said:
One has absolutely not a single thing to do with the other.
Click to expand...

There is plenty in common. When you couldn't port numbers you were, for all intents and purposes, locked into a provider. Now that you can, people can switch freely and there is more competition in devices and pricing. Now we have ecosystem lock in, where you could potentially lose access to Skype, Youtube, Facebook, Yelp, or Instagram because you decide to change ecosystems.
 
K

killer rin

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Google is merely engaging in competition with a competitor. You are free to use an iOS or Android device. I don't understand how Microsoft of all companies is actually portraying themselves as being bullied by Google, it's Microsoft for God's sakes. Microsoft still controls 95%+ of the world PC market last I checked with Windows and have an unspecified but equally dominant position in PC workspace software with Office. I find any argument that Google is unfairly excluding anyone to be downright offensive when Microsoft are the ones pulling crap like Scroogled, #droidrage, Smoked by Windows Phone, and other equally inane anti-Google attacks.
Click to expand...

Hey, keep Smoked by Windows Phone out of this, it's a legitimate advertising series. It is aimed at showing the differences from Android and Iphone and even Blackberry alike. if they can't do that without being criticized, then whats the point of trying to advertise the damned thing.
 
D

Damon Bennet

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Google is merely engaging in competition with a competitor. You are free to use an iOS or Android device. I don't understand how Microsoft of all companies is actually portraying themselves as being bullied by Google, it's Microsoft for God's sakes. Microsoft still controls 95%+ of the world PC market last I checked with Windows and have an unspecified but equally dominant position in PC workspace software with Office. I find any argument that Google is unfairly excluding anyone to be downright offensive when Microsoft are the ones pulling crap like Scroogled, #droidrage, Smoked by Windows Phone, and other equally inane anti-Google attacks.

In fact Microsoft's obsession with Google is what should be questioned here. Microsoft created an entire search engine and poured billions of dollars into it just to try and crush Google and nobody even knows why. It's not as if Google Search is somehow a threat to Microsoft's monopoly positions in Windows and Office, but how much money have they spent on Bing and for what useful purpose? If I were a Microsoft shareholder I would be leading a riot at the annual meeting against Ballmer, who has spent billions chasing other companies for no apparent reason with things like Bing, and Zune, and Kin, and now Windows Phone. They keep pouring money down the toilet and flushing it pursuing some kind of pointless vendetta against Google and then they have the temerity to cry and whine when Google doesn't support their competing platform with an app that they don't owe anybody. It's fucking ludicrous, I feel like I'm watching Fox News when I see people defending Microsoft on the Internet. Google is the aggrieved party here and Microsoft is the aggressor. If Microsoft wants Google to cooperate with them, they can start by admitting that Bing exists solely to try and crush Google and shut it down. Negotiations can start from there.
Click to expand...

wowowow at this post. you suggest that microsoft started bing to crush google? I would say they started bing, because they realized there was a market there which they could use to broaden their line up.
Has google only developed android, because they wanted to crush nokia? according to this logic: yes.

what has a comparing ad-campaign (which i dislike, but that does not matter) to do with randomly excluding microsoft from APIs, which are happily given to the biggest competitor - apple? say whaaaat.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I love Windows Phone, but I like and use Google services. I'm the one being hurt by these stands by Google. By refusing to even license the metadata/resources that MS would need to build a YouTube app, I think Google is wrong. I don't buy the argument that its justified because of MS' prior behavior.

faceless was posting about how crappy MS apps are on Android, but Google flat out refuses to make apps for Windows Phone and Windows 8. Which is worse? And if you think the market is too small to spend resources on it, why block MS from using THEIR resources to put YOUR product on a different platform?
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Damon Bennet said:
wowowow at this post. you suggest that microsoft started bing to crush google? I would say they started bing, because they realized there was a market there which they could use to broaden their line up.
Click to expand...

This is the most hilarious handwaving I've seen in this thread. I would like you to make a business case for Bing, because no one at MS ever successfully has. Even Ballmer can't explain why Bing exists in a way that makes any kind of business sense. Because such an explanation doesn't exist.

what has a comparing ad-campaign (which i dislike, but that does not matter) to do with randomly excluding microsoft from APIs, which are happily given to the biggest competitor - apple? say whaaaat.
Click to expand...

You must have missed the part where Apple dropped YouTube. It's available as an app from Google now which you download from the App Store.

VanMardigan said:
I love Windows Phone, but I like and use Google services. I'm the one being hurt by these stands by Google. By refusing to even license the metadata/resources that MS would need to build a YouTube app, I think Google is wrong. I don't buy the argument that its justified because of MS' prior behavior.
Click to expand...

It's not justified because of MS's past behavior, it's justified because of MS's current behavior. MS is currently trying attacking Google on every front they can find, for reasons nobody understands.

faceless was posting about how crappy MS apps are on Android, but Google flat out refuses to make apps for Windows Phone and Windows 8. Which is worse? And if you think the market is too small to spend resources on it, why block MS from using THEIR resources to put YOUR product on a different platform?
Click to expand...

Why should Google support a competitor which is openly trying to destroy them?
 
tfur

tfur

Member
VanMardigan said:
I love Windows Phone, but I like and use Google services. I'm the one being hurt by these stands by Google. By refusing to even license the metadata/resources that MS would need to build a YouTube app, I think Google is wrong. I don't buy the argument that its justified because of MS' prior behavior.

faceless was posting about how crappy MS apps are on Android, but Google flat out refuses to make apps for Windows Phone and Windows 8. Which is worse? And if you think the market is too small to spend resources on it, why block MS from using THEIR resources to put YOUR product on a different platform?
Click to expand...

Well, we know it's not MIcrosot prior behavior, but also their current and planned future behavior. You are being hurt by the results of Microsofts' behavior.

Why should Google help a competitor in anyway, if it does not see a technical or business benefit? They would be supporting MS, whom is guarenteed to continue in their behavior.
 
P

PG2G

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
So that means Google isn't giving Apple anything. They aren't giving Apple any special treatment as people here are claiming.
Click to expand...

Apple stopped paying the licenses fees associated with having access to Youtube. Microsoft is not even given the opportunity to pay license fees. There is a huge difference
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
PG2G said:
Apple stopped paying the licenses fees associated with having access to Youtube. Microsoft is not even given the opportunity to pay license fees. There is a huge difference
Click to expand...

Really? Microsoft is not allowed to pay license fees to access YouTube? So what's going on with that YouTube app for Xbox 360 then? How is it possible?

Damon Bennet said:
Just because apple does not want it, does not mean, that google would not keep giving it. sheesh
Click to expand...

Really? Apple does not want YouTube? So why are they allowing Google to publish their official YouTube app on the App Store then?

I'm still waiting on your convincing business case for Bing.
 
D

Damon Bennet

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
This is the most hilarious handwaving I've seen in this thread. I would like you to make a business case for Bing, because no one at MS ever successfully has. Even Ballmer can't explain why Bing exists in a way that makes any kind of business sense. Because such an explanation doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Ok I'll give you some reasons why a huge company has its own search engine:

1) Using the search engines results as integrated solutions for their OS. Why link to a competitor, when you have your own. The same reason why Apple now has their own maps, they dont want to support their competitor, if they can support themselves.

2) There is money to be made. People like to make money. Microsofts Internet services are not as succesful as they were, but bing has a quarter of all searches according to the first link I just googled (heh), which is not too bad in a market that is perceived as a google monopoly.

Even if it is not profitable at this point, it adds value to microsoft products and keeps growing, so the potential is there. Suggesting that it solely exists to destroy google or something is incredibly far fetched and biased. blinded by rage against microsoft. relax, bru
 
P

PG2G

Member
JaggedSac said:
Was MS forced to release their Office file format specifications so that 3rd party applications could read and create them?
Click to expand...

I don't know if they were forced to or did it voluntarily, but I know they switched to publicly documented formats in Office 2007, where they went with XML based formats.

Wikipedia said:
In 2008, Microsoft made the entire documentation for the binary Office formats freely available for download and granted any possible patents rights for use or implementations of those binary format for free under the Open Specification Promise.[14] Previously, Microsoft had supplied such documentation freely but only on request.
Click to expand...
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Damon Bennet said:
Ok I'll give you some reasons why a huge company has its own search engine:

1) Using the search engines results as integrated solutions for their OS. Why link to a competitor, when you have your own. The same reason why Apple now has their own maps, they dont want to support their competitor, if they can support themselves.
Click to expand...

Well, unless you're equating Apple's petulance, arrogance, and hubris with MS's, you're not proving any point here. Apple has inarguably diminished the value of their own product by dropping Google Maps over some perceived feud that Google doesn't even seem to know exists. MS inarguably diminishes the value of their product by trying to supplant the generally excellent Google Search with their own search which is not as good and has been found to be blatantly stealing search results.

2) There is money to be made. People like to make money. Microsofts Internet services are not as succesful as they were, but bing has a quarter of all searches according to the first link I just googled (heh), which is not too bad in a market that is perceived as a google monopoly.
Click to expand...

Microsoft has spent billions on Bing with no clear explanation of how they will ever make money off of it. Google's main profit driver isn't even Search, it's Ads. Microsoft has never demonstrated to anybody how they will ever make a profit from Bing, especially since they used to pay people to use Bing Search because there wasn't any other way to get people to use it.

Even if it is not profitable at this point, it adds value to microsoft products and keeps growing, so the potential is there. Suggesting that it solely exists to destroy google or something is incredibly far fetched and biased. blinded by rage against microsoft. relax, bru
Click to expand...

Here's where we get to prior behavior. If you actually believe MS wasn't trying to crush competitors in the 90's, then you are going against the decisions of the US Government and the European Union. Between you and the US and EU, I trust the judgments of the US and EU over you. Most of the same people who were at MS during those days are there today, including the current CEO. Nobody on Earth believe MS has really changed as a company, they are just hamstrung from anti-competitive behavior by the previous antitrust judgments against them.
 
J

jgkspsx

Member
Wow, where's the thread where we discuss the Windows Phone platform instead of whether conniving, sinking Microsoft is more or less evil than tax-dodging, personal-information-selling Google and fascist, brainwashing Apple?

EDIT: Yeah, actually, Bing still pays me in Microsoft Points to use it.
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
Anyways, I think I've more than proven my case at this point. So I'll leave it to Chris Ziegler to mop up:

http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/2/3829690/microsoft-google-exchange-activesync-debacle

It's a shame that Google seems to think it's okay to conscript Windows Phone users as pawns in a multibillion-dollar game of chess, yes — but when Microsoft says that it was "surprised" by the move, it's either lying or tremendously incompetent. I know a lot of really bright and wonderful people up in Redmond, so I'm betting on the former.
Click to expand...

And to be clear, nothing has prevented Microsoft from implementing DAV support in Windows Phone, just as Apple did to iOS in 2010. Google's move was merely a speed bump, not a dead end. Android doesn't natively support DAV, but there's a big difference: Android already enjoys overwhelming support and market penetration globally. Windows Phone has no such luxury. It can't afford to alienate users, nor ignore any segment of the potential market. If born-and-bred Google users with no intention of shucking their workflow want to sample a Nokia Lumia 920 or an HTC 8X, they need to be able to do so without trouble and without compromise.

Instead, Microsoft says "...now is a perfect time to join the millions who have already made the choice to upgrade to Outlook.com." That's not helpful, it's tone-deaf. It's a middle finger aimed at Mountain View, not a sympathetic and encouraging note of reassurance to users.
Click to expand...

And I'm done here.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Unknown Soldier said:
Microsoft has spent billions on Bing with no clear explanation of how they will ever make money off of it. Google's main profit driver isn't even Search, it's Ads. Microsoft has never demonstrated to anybody how they will ever make a profit from Bing, especially since they used to pay people to use Bing Search because there wasn't any other way to get people to use it.
Click to expand...

It's not that uncommon in the tech industry to develop a new service without a revenue model in place, and then integrate one at some point down the road.

And yes, I obviously collect the free MS points for using Bing.
 
M

Monumental

Banned
Some people will rather let Google bukkake them than admit that Microsoft might have a point. Pathetic really, but whatever, I have Metrotube.
 
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