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[hwalker84]

Been a day or two since we had some doom and gloom..

This is all anecdotal maybe but I wanted to get this off my chest.

Anyway, I have a ever growing sinking feeling that RIM is going to swoop in and handily snatch 3rd place off Microsoft. In fact, I would wager it will grow at a much faster pace than Windows phone has. Quite a few recent articles I have read regarding the new Blackberry devices and BB10 have been very positive. The overall mood of the tech media has changed quite a bit recently regarding RIM. If this does happen the shift of developers over to BBM who may have been considering WP apps will be bad news for WP as a platform.

Watching some newer hands on with BB10 I have been nothing but impressed with what I have seen. Sure it looks like a mash up of Web OS and Android but its fast, smooth, and seems to offer a bevy of features out of the box.. Unlike WP8 which in many ways is far behind the leading mobile OS's right now. Even many of Windows native apps are a complete joke on WP.

If this does happen Microsoft has no one to blame but themselves. In a way I am kinda rooting for RIM, more competition is a good thing. My concern is it will be at the detriment of Windows phone for the most part.

Flame me if you want, its just my thoughts.

I <3 my 920.




Prime example of above.

I have the same feeling about RIM and I hope we're wrong. I absolutely love WP8 and what's painful is Microsoft's complacency. It doesn't make any sense. WP8 should be much further along than it is.

The Lumia 920 is the best phone I've ever owned yet it could be so much better. Microsoft could be innovating even further. The idea behind WP8 and its execution is top notch. The amount of features compared to the completion could be much improved.

I watched the videos of BB10 and said wow now there's a company that knew its back was against the wall and is coming out swinging.

So many app ecosystems and no synergy. With am I buying apps twice. Nothing universal. Absolutely ridiculous.

 

[killer rin]

Those will hopefully improve. Even though Xbox Music needs a lot of work it is still one of my favorite things about the platform. Also little things like taking am extra second to turn off or on WiFi every now and then doesn't bother. The core things I need to do with a phone, WP does it well.

Honestly, to be fair Microsoft has been doing an okay job with Windows Phone, Yes they could be doing much, much better; but they haven't completely fucked it up yet. I see the WP Division as a team that knows that there are problems, and they know that its not 100% perfect yet, but they are using the amount of people they have available to slowly work towards that. They really just need to hire more devs so they can speed up the process of new features, and they also need to get advertisers on track.

I'unno though, I feel as though we are just at the beginning of the long term goal. They laid the foundation with Windows Phone 8, and over the next year they will be working hard to fix all the small annoyances as well as add in new experiences as they work towards converging all of their products.

I do completely agree though that they need to be more transparent though. They shouldn't be quiet like this as it adds a bad image and makes us all think they have abandoned the platform. If they only spoke up and said "Hey guys, were working on Apollo Plus and it's going to have 20+ New fixes..." it would solve alot of problems. They need to be building up hype and keeping it all year round.

 

[antiquegamer]

Can I just say that not having a way to turn on Wifi without opening system settings is total bullshit?

It's like they were working on a notification center with the rest of the stuff, then ran out of time. But it's just not complete without this stuff, guys.

You can pin Wifi setting to the home screen. (There are bunch of free app that let you pin all the connection setting).

 

[zedge]

Those will hopefully improve. Even though Xbox Music needs a lot of work it is still one of my favorite things about the platform. Also little things like taking am extra second to turn off or on WiFi every now and then doesn't bother. The core things I need to do with a phone, WP does it well.

I hope so. Don't get me wrong I am sticking with WP for now. I don't think I can go back to Android now, still have my S3 but it feels dead to me now. It just seems some things are moving much slower than they should be.

On a side note its weird being the odd man out again. Back when I first got a Nexus one I was the only person I knew with an Android phone. Now that I have the 920, I don't know anyone else (other than my son) with a Windows phone. The amount of S3s and other Samsung phones is just ridiculous these days. In my dept at work alone 7 of 12 people have and S3 now.. few others have a version of the S2. Very few with iphones. How things have changed. Crazy.

 

[ElNino]

I watched the videos of BB10 and said wow now there's a company that knew its back was against the wall and is coming out swinging.

I don't know about that, RIM sent someone I know a dev phone to try and lure him to port is PlayBook game over to BB10 and he has very little positive to say about it. They tried to implement the PB bezel gestures (which are awesome), but since the phone the has such a small bezel it makes them difficult to trigger. Gestures that were natural and second nature on the PB become strained on the phone as you need to perfectly hit the bezel outside of the screen.

 

[antiquegamer]

Honestly, to be fair Microsoft has been doing an okay job with Windows Phone, Yes they could be doing much, much better; but they haven't completely fucked it up yet. I see the WP Division as a team that knows that there are problems, and they know that its not 100% perfect yet, but they are using the amount of people they have available to slowly work towards that. They really just need to hire more devs so they can speed up the process of new features, and they also need to get advertisers on track.

I'unno though, I feel as though we are just at the beginning of the long term goal. They laid the foundation with Windows Phone 8, and over the next year they will be working hard to fix all the small annoyances as well as add in new experiences as they work towards converging all of their products.

I totally disagree. Two years ago I would say definitely, they are on the right path, today not so much. After two years and watching them move in such snail pace yet at the same time proclaiming they are at the same point iOS I just know they do not realize how far back they are. The update are slow coming and Windows Phone 8 instead of adding features ... they removed them. Yeah, I don't think they get it, but at this point does it matter really if RIM or Windows Phone is in 3rd place. The market is dominated by iPhones and Android and that will not change until next disruption which is probably good 10 years or more.

Anyway, when Nokia move to Android I will go there with them. Or if Apple decided to put out a 4.5" phone.

 

[zedge]

I don't know about that, RIM sent someone I know a dev phone to try and lure him to port is PlayBook game over to BB10 and he has very little positive to say about it. They tried to implement the PB bezel gestures (which are awesome), but since the phone the has such a small bezel it makes them difficult to trigger. Gestures that were natural and second nature on the PB become strained on the phone as you need to perfectly hit the bezel outside of the screen.

To be fair that would be a Dev phone, maybe the actual consumer versions will not have that issue?

 

[hwalker84]

I totally disagree. Two years ago I would say definitely, they are on the right path, today not so much. After two years and watching them move in such snail pace yet at the same time proclaiming they are at the same point iOS I just know they do not realize how far back they are. The update are slow coming and Windows Phone 8 instead of adding features ... they removed them. Yeah, I don't think they get it, but at this point does it matter really if RIM or Windows Phone is in 3rd place. The market is dominated by iPhones and Android and that will not change until next disruption which is probably good 10 years or more.

Anyway, when Nokia move to Android I will go there with them. Or if Apple decided to put out a 4.5" phone.

I could never go back to IOS. I so done with that company and all of there products. I can't stand the holier than thou attitude that there owners have. Let alone I just don't enjoy there products anymore. I've never been a fan of Android but that would be the defacto OS if Microsoft doesn't get it together in another 2yrs.

 

[lastflowers]

Trust me, the whole team takes into account all of the feedback. A lot of the times the team stays silent because of previous experience with talking. The 'loose lips sinks ships' is a good thing. Part of the reason there aren't a lot of public statements is because things like that could be heavily misquoted or imprinted into unrealistic expectation. Take ME3 ending for example. Now, I didn't hate the ending or anything...but their handling of backlash was horrible.

People/Tech Enthusiasts are both the best and the worst. They have a critical eye, yet sometimes hold unrealistic expectations about the ease or speed of things. The i5 chip in the Surface for example. People saying 'Why don't the surface pro have 7watt chip with 10hr batter...EASY!' .....it's not easy.

Not that I'm making excuses or trying to deflect anything. I enjoy the critique, because it helps drive choices. The more the public complain about something, I imagine the better the product will be for it.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Doesn't matter when nothing will take advantage of that.

everything previously made already takes advantage of it!

 

[antiquegamer]

Trust me, the whole team takes into account all of the feedback. A lot of the times the team stays silent because of previous experience with talking. The 'loose lips sinks ships' is a good thing. Part of the reason there aren't a lot of public statements is because things like that could be heavily misquoted or imprinted into unrealistic expectation. Take ME3 ending for example. Now, I didn't hate the ending or anything...but their handling of backlash was horrible.

People/Tech Enthusiasts are both the best and the worst. They have a critical eye, yet sometimes hold unrealistic expectations about the ease or speed of things. The i5 chip in the Surface for example. People saying 'Why don't the surface pro have 7watt chip with 10hr batter...EASY!' .....it's not easy.

Not that I'm making excuses or trying to deflect anything. I enjoy the critique, because it helps drive choices. The more the public complain about something, I imagine the better the product will be for it.

They could have fool me ... unless there are more features to Windows Phone 8 they are not "talking about". The new OS is essentially a port of Windows Phone 7.5 to the new kernel but instead of getting more features we get some features remove (like wifi sync, Zune) and even less apps. Things that people ask for since 7.1 like better notification, better customization of ringtone, better wifi support, were still not met. Then you have the horrendous sync because of Xbox Music degrade ...Xbox Video no longer work, Zune support is gone. (I still can't believe my option is to go back to Windows Media Player or using competitor product) I really don't know which customers they were listening to. It took this long just to get screen shot and always on wifi and those are easy things. How long before they step up and give the OS better integration. You guys have such great products and eco system yet the entire company seems to be mire in inter-department cock blocking instead of working to deliver better customer overall experience.

I am sorry to be such a downer, I did love this OS and to see Microsoft essentially throwing away all the initial good will is just plain disappointing. Surface was half-baked with apps that are terrible to use. (I can't believe they launch RT with that Mail app ...yet Courrier got canned because it doesn't support email) Windows RT should have been Windows Phone OS but instead we got the RT because Windows Team just can't let the phone team doing mobile OS. May be I am expecting too much... but this fall was suppose to be Microsoft come back but they just seems to regress in stead of progress.

 

[thirty]

"beta test is over"
"WP8 will catch up to ..."
"WP7 apps/games will run on WP8"

then there's the killing of Zune rather than relabeling it. these are thing that make you say WTF Microsoft.

if it wasn't for Nokia and their Pureview tech, the platform would be dead. when apple and samsung's imaging catches up to nokia's, what then? i wont stick around for Xbox Music or Xbox Games; Microsoft will have nothing.

 

[Talon]

It's still absurd that they used the Lumia 900 of all devices for the "Beat Test is Over" moniker. That would've been clever with the 920/8X gen with WP8 launching.

Using a Windows 7 device with a low res screen that's running on software that you'll abandon under a year later for it? Microsoft.

 

[brotkasten]

It's still absurd that they used the Lumia 900 of all devices for the "Beat Test is Over" moniker. That would've been clever with the 920/8X gen with WP8 launching.

Using a Windows 7 device with a low res screen that's running on software that you'll abandon under a year later for it? Microsoft.

That was Nokia's campagin, not Microsoft's.

 

[Label]

Where the hell is Jetpack Joyride!

Also what happened to MS releasing a new Xbox game every Wednesday? Luckily Nokia are picking up the slack I guess.

 

[jgkspsx]

You can pin Wifi setting to the home screen. (There are bunch of free app that let you pin all the connection setting).

Yeah, I'm using several, but it's a bullshit workaround.

 

[MCD]

Phill Harrison is shifting employees at MS.

Apprently, we now have two studios for cloud/digital gaming (WP/Surface): Lift London and Press Play.

Both from ex Rareworks guys. Are you guys excited? Hope we will get some Banjo and Kazooie mobile stuff.

 

[brotkasten]

Phill Harrison is shifting employees at MS.

Apprently, we now have two studios for cloud/digital gaming (WP/Surface): Lift London and Press Play.

Both from ex Rareworks guys. Are you guys excited? Hope we will get some Banjo and Kazooie mobile stuff.

No.

 

[MCD]

I was trying to get excited goddammit.

back to bitter mode.

 

[Razdek]

They could have fool me ... unless there are more features to Windows Phone 8 they are not "talking about". The new OS is essentially a port of Windows Phone 7.5 to the new kernel but instead of getting more features we get some features remove (like wifi sync, Zune) and even less apps. Things that people ask it's since 7.1 like better notification, better customization of ringtone, better wifi support, were still not met. Then you have the horrendous sync because of Xbox Music degrade ...Xbox Video no longer work, Zune support is gone. (I still can't believe my option is to go back to Windows Media Player or using competitor product) I really don't know which customers they were listening to. It took this long just to get screen shot and always on wifi and those are easy things. How long before they step up and give the OS better integration. You guys have such great products and eco system yet the entire company seems to be mire in inter-department cock blocking instead of working to deliver better customer overall experience.

I am sorry to be such a downer, I did love this OS and to see Microsoft essentially throwing away all the initial good will is just plain disappointing. Surface was half-baked with apps that are terrible to use. (I can't believe they launch RT with that Mail app ...yet Courrier got canned because it doesn't support email) Windows RT should have been Windows Phone OS but instead we got the RT because Windows Team just can't let the phone team doing mobile OS. May be I am expecting too much... but this fall was suppose to be Microsoft come back but they just seems to regress in stead of progress.

I still like playing with my Windows Phone 7.5 device but I don't think I can use it as my main driver. With what I've seen of BB10 so far I think it'll be competitive with WP and I think they'll have the features that WP users have been waiting for since release like a notification center, different volime controls, Syncing, podcasts.

If it's able to launch with the big key apps that WP doesn't even have like instagram and such they can realistically become the third ecosystem if it works out.

 

[ralexand]

I still like playing with my Windows Phone 7.5 device but I don't think I can use it as my main driver. With what I've seen of BB10 so far I think it'll be competitive with WP and I think they'll have the features that WP users have been waiting for since release like a notification center, different volime controls, Syncing, podcasts.

If it's able to launch with the big key apps that WP doesn't even have like instagram and such they can realistically become the third ecosystem if it works out.

I don't really care about many of those things. What MS has really come up short is having a compelling alternative to Siri/Google voice thingie.

 

[Tomcat]

I still like playing with my Windows Phone 7.5 device but I don't think I can use it as my main driver. With what I've seen of BB10 so far I think it'll be competitive with WP and I think they'll have the features that WP users have been waiting for since release like a notification center, different volime controls, Syncing, podcasts.

If it's able to launch with the big key apps that WP doesn't even have like instagram and such they can realistically become the third ecosystem if it works out.

what are these videos that have impressed you so much about bb10?

from what I have seen android looks better. And for the money it will cost I would be better with a high end android phone than betting again on a new platform.

 

[brotkasten]

Shame about the ugly OS.

 

[Cute Dragon Here]

Shame about the ugly OS.

That depends - consistency and performance is key. There's a reason why I ditched Android...

 

[Talon]

That was Nokia's campagin, not Microsoft's.

Just as silly of them when WP8 was fast approaching. I'd imagine they of all manufacturers knew about the spec requirements.

Also, that's what BB10 looks like. :/

 

[killer rin]

I don't really care about many of those things. What MS has really come up short is having a compelling alternative to Siri/Google voice thingie.

I have always said they should hire the developer of Ask Ziggy. Just put that right in the OS... or at the very least install it by default.

Anyhow, I find TellMe to be usefull for somethings, such as opening an app or "Find X in Toronto"... I even got text voice to work. But other than that there is really no point to it.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Shame about the ugly OS.

Yeah, it doesn't look good.

 

[clav]

Shame about the ugly OS.

A grid of icons

 

[SCHUEY F1]

A grid of icons

It also a page live something or others.

 

[clav]

It also a page live something or others.

Looks like a wannabe Android.

Phill Harrison is shifting employees at MS.

Apprently, we now have two studios for cloud/digital gaming (WP/Surface): Lift London and Press Play.

Both from ex Rareworks guys. Are you guys excited? Hope we will get some Banjo and Kazooie mobile stuff.

Until I see Banjo Kazooie 3 on the Xbox, no.

 

[Talon]

What it really looks like is a Smart TV interface.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

The unique thing is the gestures, but how good will that work in practice? Is it any faster than any of the other phone at getting to your mail? Will the QWERTY form factors be any good?

 

[ElNino]

That depends - consistency and performance is key. There's a reason why I ditched Android...

If every BB phone (and current Playbook) are any indication... then expect wildly inconsistent performance with both native and 3rd party apps. The OS might be great when not in an app (like the Playbook is) but until I see otherwise from RIM I will assume the app performance will still be terrible.

 

[hadareud]

Shame about the ugly OS.

The iPhone gets uglier with each new release.

Oh.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Three UK will be getting the 920 next month with the exclusivity ending. Wonder if this will be the case in other countries?

 

[Miles X]

Apparantly 7.8 is now rolling out to some mobiles?!

 

[brotkasten]

Three UK will be getting the 920 next month with the exclusivity ending. Wonder if this will be the case in other countries?

You know what else is at the end of next month? Mobile World Congress.

Wouldn't it be a great time to announce something for other carriers?

 

[Sordid]

Three UK will be getting the 920 next month with the exclusivity ending. Wonder if this will be the case in other countries?

Finally! Hope I can get it cheap sim free somewhere, it was £329 on EE at one point.

 

[Blue Ninja]

Apparantly 7.8 is now rolling out to some mobiles?!

It is? I must investigate.

Damn, still nothing.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

You know what else is at the end of next month? Mobile World Congress.

Wouldn't it be a great time to announce something for other carriers?

Ah yeah, that's right.

 

[Razdek]

what are these videos that have impressed you so much about bb10?

from what I have seen android looks better. And for the money it will cost I would be better with a high end android phone than betting again on a new platform.

Oh I was comparing it to WP and not Android in terms of functionality. Just off the top of my head would be browser (it has flash) and email over WP. Plus I think it has LED notifications, something small I know but I really like having one on my phone. Of course different features matter more to users but I'd rather have functionality than looks but I enjoy using my WP.

 

[SCHUEY F1]

For Mac WP8 users, the sync app was updated.

 

[antiquegamer]

Shame about the ugly OS.

You are using Android ... it's like pot and kettle thing.

 

[ElNino]

Oh I was comparing it to WP and not Android in terms of functionality. Just off the top of my head would be browser (it has flash) and email over WP. Plus I think it has LED notifications, something small I know but I really like having one on my phone. Of course different features matter more to users but I'd rather have functionality than looks but I enjoy using my WP.

As a long time BlackBerry user, I can easily say the only thing I miss is the notification LED. I had an app to give custom LED alerts which was very convenient.

Other than that I can't think of anything it does better than WP, and that includes the browser.

 

[Tomcat]

yeah led notifications are a must. HTC uses them I think but MS should make them mandatory and expand them.

 

[Complex Shadow]

You are using Android ... it's like pot and kettle thing.

Contrary to popular beliefs, sometimes you don't really have a choice.

 

[hadareud]

LED notifications are easily one of the most annoying things.

I absolutely hated them on my HTC phones. What I hated even more is that there wasn't away to switch them off. Particularly the flashing red one for the low battery. Still makes me angry just thinking about it.

 

[Label]

Finally! Hope I can get it cheap sim free somewhere, it was £329 on EE at one point.

I feel like a fool paying £460 for it and then there being a sale so soon after. But you know what, I do not really regret it. I bloody love my 920 and it was just Christmas bonus money anyway.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

To the windows phone vs BB10 discussion. I think it's worrying about for Microsoft. Although I think there is no real interest in blackberry in north america overall, the fact that they're releasing on what looks like every single carrier, the fact that carriers will probably push it at least a bit, and the fact that blackberry does have a loyal base which windows phone didn't have when WP launched. There is a decent chance BB could swoop in and take 3rd and that...wouldn't be good for MS.

 

[clav]

To the windows phone vs BB10 discussion. I think it's worrying about for Microsoft. Although I think there is no real interest in blackberry in north america overall, the fact that they're releasing on what looks like every single carrier, the fact that carriers will probably push it at least a bit, and the fact that blackberry does have a loyal base which windows phone didn't have when WP launched. There is a decent chance BB could swoop in and take 3rd and that...wouldn't be good for MS.

What does BB have over Windows Phone?

The keyboard is gone.