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Windows Phone |OT3 Update 3| Please be excited

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A

antiquegamer

Member
Razdek said:
Yea they need to give developers more incentives like more money or taking less cut for app sales. Money talks and they should show developers the money.
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure they did all these, I remember there was an article and devs were saying even with "incentive", they do not find that it is worthwhile to do Windows Phone app because they don't want to have to keep supporting it due to low volume.
 
S

Speedy Blue Dude

Banned
How much of an upgrade is the 1520 over the 1020? I love my 1020... but I want a 1520 now. Gonna keep both phones around, but I'm gonna just make the 1020 into a camera, it seems. Is it worth it to upgrade to a 1520, from a 1020?
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
I don't know why you and Van find that 1520 so enticing. The phone is one ugly giant slap of glass and plastic. The size is comical, and totally ungainly to use as phone but too small to be a tablet. Windows Phone UI scale horribly with it and the OS doesn't make the larger real estate a big benefit beside the fact that everything is bigger.

I show my wife that ugly beast yesterday when we were at the mall and she told me she would never carry that hideous giant phone around and she love the 1020 I got her and glad that I didn't get her the 1520 or should would have make me return it.

I really don't see any benefit at all in upgrading to the 1520 ... you get giant screen that pretty much useless on Windows Phone OS until may be they put in thing like Snap that are on Windows 8 and Xbox One, the camera is definitely a downgrade from 1020, there are no wireless charging ... it doesn't matter if the phone has big giant battery that last for days, eventually you are going to need to charge the darn thing and then fumbling around for a cord while holding the giant slap doesn't sound all that appealing.

Also why would you want to get 1520 when the next phones are around the corner.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
camajise said:
I don't believe the android rumors either. The WP has the major apps now, giving up and allowing android apps on board would mean mot only the death of the platform but the death of mobility for MS all together. They'd be an enterprise only company in the not so distant future if that happened. No way MS allows that.

They just need to dig deeper into their war chest and buy developers and make many WP apps as lead platform. Don't make them exclusive to WP but timed exclusive features on WP maybe.
Click to expand...

With sub-5% market share for both phones and tablets where neither actually makes money, mobile is Microsoft's the next Bing. There's always a chance it'll turn a profit some day and Microsoft is going to sink money into it for a decade.
It's not really a successful platform when you have to pay for the development of all important apps. Trying something different may not be such a bad idea. There may be other ways to 'win'.

Maybe Microsoft could mount a completely open-source, Google-independent Android-'Alliance' and get all the Chinese OEMs on board. Since a significant portion of Android-devices come without Google, maybe there's sufficient demand for that. If there was a free, non-Google Android almost as big as Google-Android, then maybe control over mobile could be slowly wrestled away from Google.
 
S

Speedy Blue Dude

Banned
antiquegamer said:
I don't know why you and Van find that 1520 so enticing. The phone is one ugly giant slap of glass and plastic. The size is comical, and totally ungainly to use as phone but too small to be a tablet. Windows Phone UI scale horribly with it and the OS doesn't make the larger real estate a big benefit beside the fact that everything is bigger.

I show my wife that ugly beast yesterday when we were at the mall and she told me she would never carry that hideous giant phone around and she love the 1020 I got her and glad that I didn't get her the 1520 or should would have make me return it.

I really don't see any benefit at all in upgrading to the 1520 ... you get giant screen that pretty much useless on Windows Phone OS until may be they put in thing like Snap that are on Windows 8 and Xbox One, the camera is definitely a downgrade from 1020, there are no wireless charging ... it doesn't matter if the phone has big giant battery that last for days, eventually you are going to need to charge the darn thing and then fumbling around for a cord while holding the giant slap doesn't sound all that appealing.

Also why would you want to get 1520 when the next phones are around the corner.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what about the 1520 excites me... I hate large phones, so that would potentially kill my purchase, since I haven't held the actual thing yet. If I finally get it in my hands and it's too big for me, I'll just hold off. Honestly... the 1020 falls out of my hands every now and then because it's borderline to big, thank god for the strap.

Are the new phones coming out? I saw the Nokia Icon, which looks beautiful, but wasn't aware anything else was coming out. Might just hold off then.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
Well WMC is around the corner and so is Windows Phone 8.1, I am sure there will be plenty of new phones coming out in a few months. If you find the 1020 too big, then you will be shock at how large the 1520 is.
 
juliushandle

juliushandle

Member
maeh2k said:
Maybe Microsoft could mount a completely open-source, Google-independent Android-'Alliance' and get all the Chinese OEMs on board. Since a significant portion of Android-devices come without Google, maybe there's sufficient demand for that. If there was a free, non-Google Android almost as big as Google-Android, then maybe control over mobile could be slowly wrestled away from Google.
Click to expand...
but couldn't MS give the OS for free to these Chinese OEMs too? seriously, MS can make money from the marketplace, ads in the browser, and their various services like Skype, onedrive, etc.
Speedy Blue Dude said:
I'm not sure what about the 1520 excites me... I hate large phones, so that would potentially kill my purchase, since I haven't held the actual thing yet. If I finally get it in my hands and it's too big for me, I'll just hold off. Honestly... the 1020 falls out of my hands every now and then because it's borderline to big, thank god for the strap.

Are the new phones coming out? I saw the Nokia Icon, which looks beautiful, but wasn't aware anything else was coming out. Might just hold off then.
Click to expand...
when you see the galaxy note handle multitasking using all that screen real estate and stylus support you'll see why some of us don't find the 1520 appealing. Now if the 1520 had a 41mp camera, I'd probably be typing on it now rather then my 920.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
camajise said:
but couldn't MS give the OS for free to these Chinese OEMs too? seriously, MS can make money from the marketplace, ads in the browser, and their various services like Skype, onedrive, etc.

when you see the galaxy note handle multitasking using all that screen real estate and stylus support you'll see why some of us don't find the 1520 appealing. Now if the 1520 had a 41mp camera, I'd probably be typing on it now rather then my 920.
Click to expand...

Sure they could give it away (and they'll probably have to), but would anyone take it? Trying to prop up the losing system at all costs isn't going to help anyone.
If Microsoft really want to make money in mobile they'll have to make it on Android (and iOS). I don't have high hopes for their own platforms and devices.
 
K

killer rin

Member
maeh2k said:
Sure they could give it away (and they'll probably have to), but would anyone take it? Trying to prop up the losing system at all costs isn't going to help anyone.
If Microsoft really want to make money in mobile they'll have to make it on Android (and iOS). I don't have high hopes for their own platforms and devices.
Click to expand...

If Microsoft made the Windows Phone OS free, I could see a situation where quite a few low-end Chinese OEMs end up picking it up. If only because they would get access to the full OS instead of a subset like with Android where they would need to purchase a licence from Google to get access to the Google Play Store and the other parts of the Android OS which is locked up.
 
C

catmincer

Member
antiquegamer said:
I don't know why you and Van find that 1520 so enticing. The phone is one ugly giant slap of glass and plastic. The size is comical, and totally ungainly to use as phone but too small to be a tablet. Windows Phone UI scale horribly with it and the OS doesn't make the larger real estate a big benefit beside the fact that everything is bigger.

I show my wife that ugly beast yesterday when we were at the mall and she told me she would never carry that hideous giant phone around and she love the 1020 I got her and glad that I didn't get her the 1520 or should would have make me return it.

I really don't see any benefit at all in upgrading to the 1520 ... you get giant screen that pretty much useless on Windows Phone OS until may be they put in thing like Snap that are on Windows 8 and Xbox One, the camera is definitely a downgrade from 1020, there are no wireless charging ... it doesn't matter if the phone has big giant battery that last for days, eventually you are going to need to charge the darn thing and then fumbling around for a cord while holding the giant slap doesn't sound all that appealing.

Also why would you want to get 1520 when the next phones are around the corner.
Click to expand...

For me I use my phone as

- mp3 player
- facebook
- camera
- Ebook reader

So long battery life is great for facebook and mp3s. The camera is better than nearly any other phone on the market and 6" is great for reading books. So it has a niche and after having a 5" screen it'd be hard to go to anything smaller. As for the size, my other half as a Z Ultra, that thing is huge. The 1520 is slightly smaller at least,
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
maeh2k said:
With sub-5% market share for both phones and tablets where neither actually makes money, mobile is Microsoft's the next Bing. There's always a chance it'll turn a profit some day and Microsoft is going to sink money into it for a decade.
It's not really a successful platform when you have to pay for the development of all important apps. Trying something different may not be such a bad idea. There may be other ways to 'win'.

Maybe Microsoft could mount a completely open-source, Google-independent Android-'Alliance' and get all the Chinese OEMs on board. Since a significant portion of Android-devices come without Google, maybe there's sufficient demand for that. If there was a free, non-Google Android almost as big as Google-Android, then maybe control over mobile could be slowly wrestled away from Google.
Click to expand...

why would the Chinese OEMs use MS-Android instead of AOSP?
 
M

maeh2k

Member
The Faceless Master said:
why would the Chinese OEMs use MS-Android instead of AOSP?
Click to expand...

In that case I wasn't thinking of MS-Android, but of a more concerted effort to develop AOSP Android into something more Google's leftovers. A true open-source system that any entity can develop further. Microsoft doesn't have to own anything, they could just try to make sure Google doesn't, either. And since Google is focusing on Google-Android, there'd be some room for Microsoft to establish themselves on a fork.
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
maeh2k said:
In that case I wasn't thinking of MS-Android, but of a more concerted effort to develop AOSP Android into something more Google's leftovers. A true open-source system that any entity can develop further. Microsoft doesn't have to own anything, they could just try to make sure Google doesn't, either. And since Google is focusing on Google-Android, there'd be some room for Microsoft to establish themselves on a fork.
Click to expand...

what you're describing sounds like AOSP...

still not seeing any benefit for those OEMs or MS in that deal.

it'll just mean even more kernel source requests falling on deaf ears...
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
The whole Android thing has got to be bollocks.

I'm sure that there's people at MS that would like that, but it doesn't mean that it's going to happen.

If they do that, they might as well pull out of mobile altogether and concentrate on Enterprise and apps.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
The Faceless Master said:
what you're describing sounds like AOSP...

still not seeing any benefit for those OEMs or MS in that deal.

it'll just mean even more kernel source requests falling on deaf ears...
Click to expand...

What I'm not seeing (admittedly, that may be because I'm not looking), is a concerted effort to make AOSP awesome. Any time I read about AOSP vs Google-Android, it's about stuff that Google is improving over AOSP and keeping Google-exclusive. It always seems like AOSP is falling behind and is objectively worse than Google-Android. That could never compete outside of China.
I'd like a credible Google-Android competitor to come out of AOSP.
 
B

brotkasten

Member
maeh2k said:
What I'm not seeing (admittedly, that may be because I'm not looking), is a concerted effort to make AOSP awesome. Any time I read about AOSP vs Google-Android, it's about stuff that Google is improving over AOSP and keeping Google-exclusive. It always seems like AOSP is falling behind and is objectively worse than Google-Android. That could never compete outside of China.
I'd like a credible Google-Android competitor to come out of AOSP.
Click to expand...

But you're also talking about breaking away from Google's APIs in Android and creating new ones. You're essentially saying that Microsoft should come up with a new OS with its own APIs and that being loosely based on ASOP is supposed to be an advantage, because ISVs could resubmit their Android apps to the Microsoft not-Android store. But they could also improve their apps with these new Microsoft not-Android APIs and create a new branch of their apps, which they'd also have to maintain.

I really don't see the point.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
My thinking is that they could just continue to work on their own OS, which has a large number of apps that they worked hard on getting and that is also gaining traction on the market.

The OS that is getting a significant upgrade in a month and a bit and that has increased its market share in Europe to over 10 % (in sales). The one that they just bought their own hardware division for.

Sounds mental, I know.
 
M

maeh2k

Member
brotkasten said:
But you're also talking about breaking away from Google's APIs in Android and creating new ones. You're essentially saying that Microsoft should come up with a new OS with its own APIs and that being loosely based on ASOP is supposed to be an advantage, because ISVs could resubmit their Android apps to the Microsoft not-Android store. But they could also improve their apps with these new Microsoft not-Android APIs and create a new branch of their apps, which they'd also have to maintain.

I really don't see the point.
Click to expand...

I'm just talking about various options for Microsoft to focus more on Android. What it comes down to is that at some point I think Microsoft might have to focus on Android somehow. No idea how exactly. Otherwise focusing on their own platforms would be a lot like focusing on Linux on the desktop and hoping that maybe next year will finally be the year of Linux on the desktop.
Should they choose to incorporate it into their own system, they'd have to do it without Google services, so they would need to provide alternatives to make the experience competitive and to not end up with a Blackberry situation. If it didn't take that much effort to get Android apps to run on Windows it would probably see a lot more support than WinRT/WinPRT.
I don't think there are any clear and easy choices on what they should do. Focusing on providing their services to Google-Android devices is also hard since Google gets to bundle all their services and gets to control everything. So I thought maybe backing an open-source non-Google-Android in a big way might also be an option (a different option from doing their own fork) just to lessen Google's stranglehold on Android.
Or maybe they should just become the next IBM. Who knows... :)
 
D

Doffen

Member
I really hope that WP 8.1 will introduce games with Xbox achievements ands stuff like that. Would be really cool if Microsoft brought their devices closer with their services.

Maybe even Games with Gold could be introduced.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Doffen said:
I really hope that WP 8.1 will introduce games with Xbox achievements ands stuff like that. Would be really cool if Microsoft brought their devices closer with their services.

Maybe even Games with Gold could be introduced.
Click to expand...

There are already lots of games with achievements on WP.
 
derExperte

derExperte

Member
hadareud said:
My thinking is that they could just continue to work on their own OS, which has a large number of apps that they worked hard on getting and that is also gaining traction on the market.

The OS that is getting a significant upgrade in a month and a bit and that has increased its market share in Europe to over 10 % (in sales). The one that they just bought their own hardware division for.

Sounds mental, I know.
Click to expand...

Exactly, WP's growth is accelerating and you now certainly can consider it a small success in Europe. While US is lagging behind and they're still far away from 2nd place I see no reason why they should give up or dial down their efforts now. Some in here are strangely pessimistic, I don't quite get it. At least wait until 8.1 and the new devices are out, if despite that the growth stops things would look different.
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
catmincer said:
For me I use my phone as

- mp3 player
- facebook
- camera
- Ebook reader

So long battery life is great for facebook and mp3s. The camera is better than nearly any other phone on the market and 6" is great for reading books. So it has a niche and after having a 5" screen it'd be hard to go to anything smaller. As for the size, my other half as a Z Ultra, that thing is huge. The 1520 is slightly smaller at least,
Click to expand...

You bough the 1520 for what it is, but people with 1020 want to "upgrade" to 1520 now is what mind boggling to me. Especially with WMC around the corner and 8.1, you know new phones are coming.
 
H

hwalker84

Member
BTW since letting my Lumia 520 completely die and turning off WIFI along with all the other stuff I turned off I'm getting ridiculous battery life. When I left the house this morning it had been up for almost 4 days with 89% battery left.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
antiquegamer said:
I am pretty sure they did all these, I remember there was an article and devs were saying even with "incentive", they do not find that it is worthwhile to do Windows Phone app because they don't want to have to keep supporting it due to low volume.
Click to expand...

You're right, maybe they need to increase it more substantially. Must be hard for developers to make a version of WP when they can devote their resources to making their Android and IOS apps better. If they can't motivate developers with money then they are kinda screwed as they don't have much else to offer. Especially with the low user base compared to the other guys.
 
M

Magni

Member
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205382

Sooo Newegg has the T-Mo 925 for $280 today instead of $500. I just bought a 521 not even three weeks ago as a stop gap phone until the 925's replacement came out for T-Mo. I've been loving it (got it for $75, amazing value) but I do wish the camera were better and had a flash, and I miss the FFC from my iPod. Should I bite or should I wait?

vvv I think I've said it before, but just in case: A (US-only so it makes even less sense to them) well-known app that I interviewed with last month was offered 100k by MS to develop a WP client. They turned it down since 100k is not even one developer for one year, and they didn't want to deal with ongoing support for such a limited market. :/
 
A

antiquegamer

Member
Razdek said:
You're right, maybe they need to increase it more substantially. Must be hard for developers to make a version of WP when they can devote their resources to making their Android and IOS apps better. If they can't motivate developers with money then they are kinda screwed as they don't have much else to offer. Especially with the low user base compared to the other guys.
Click to expand...

It is not just put out an app, there are features that need to be add later, bug fixes and then there are new devices, new API etc that they will have to have on going support and test for. Even if Microsoft willing to put out initial cost of app development, it is still up the app platform holder to support it long term. I understand why they would not want sub-par support for their app and rather put all their resource into one or two platforms that they know have substantial user base. Also one of the reason app like Check (formerly Pageonce) and many others drop Windows Phone.
 
J

JaggedSac

Member
Magni said:
vvv I think I've said it before, but just in case: A (US-only so it makes even less sense to them) well-known app that I interviewed with last month was offered 100k by MS to develop a WP client. They turned it down since 100k is not even one developer for one year, and they didn't want to deal with ongoing support for such a limited market. :/
Click to expand...

Yep, the company I work for was offered money to make an app and we cited support and maintenance costs as why we did not take the deal. We took a deal for W8 however, and MS is even deving that one for us, lol.
 
R

Razdek

Banned
Magni said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205382

Sooo Newegg has the T-Mo 925 for $280 today instead of $500. I just bought a 521 not even three weeks ago as a stop gap phone until the 925's replacement came out for T-Mo. I've been loving it (got it for $75, amazing value) but I do wish the camera were better and had a flash, and I miss the FFC from my iPod. Should I bite or should I wait?

vvv I think I've said it before, but just in case: A (US-only so it makes even less sense to them) well-known app that I interviewed with last month was offered 100k by MS to develop a WP client. They turned it down since 100k is not even one developer for one year, and they didn't want to deal with ongoing support for such a limited market. :/
Click to expand...

Only 100k to develop apps? I thought they were offering a million or more. No wonder the more popular devs aren't doing it as that wouldn't justify the maintenance costs for them. Not sure how this is going to change or even if it can.
 
M

Magni

Member
Razdek said:
Only 100k to develop apps? I thought they were offering a million or more. No wonder the more popular devs aren't doing it as that wouldn't justify the maintenance costs for them. Not sure how this is going to change or even if it can.
Click to expand...

It depends on the app I'm sure. Snapchat probably received a much bigger offer than this app I'm talking about.
 
S

Speedy Blue Dude

Banned
Magni said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16875205382

Sooo Newegg has the T-Mo 925 for $280 today instead of $500. I just bought a 521 not even three weeks ago as a stop gap phone until the 925's replacement came out for T-Mo. I've been loving it (got it for $75, amazing value) but I do wish the camera were better and had a flash, and I miss the FFC from my iPod. Should I bite or should I wait?

vvv I think I've said it before, but just in case: A (US-only so it makes even less sense to them) well-known app that I interviewed with last month was offered 100k by MS to develop a WP client. They turned it down since 100k is not even one developer for one year, and they didn't want to deal with ongoing support for such a limited market. :/
Click to expand...
If I was on T-Mobile I would jump on this. The 925 is such a pretty phone. :)
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
antiquegamer said:
You bough the 1520 for what it is, but people with 1020 want to "upgrade" to 1520 now is what mind boggling to me. Especially with WMC around the corner and 8.1, you know new phones are coming.
Click to expand...

-bigger, better screen
-crazy good battery life
-SD card support
-better internals
-allows me to sell off my Nexus 7 2013
-I'm still buying a flagship phone this fall
 
The Faceless Master

The Faceless Master

Member
maeh2k said:
What I'm not seeing (admittedly, that may be because I'm not looking), is a concerted effort to make AOSP awesome. Any time I read about AOSP vs Google-Android, it's about stuff that Google is improving over AOSP and keeping Google-exclusive. It always seems like AOSP is falling behind and is objectively worse than Google-Android. That could never compete outside of China.
I'd like a credible Google-Android competitor to come out of AOSP.
Click to expand...

but what's awesome about Google Android? Google Search provided by Google? Google Location Services API using data provided by Google? YouTube provided by Google? Google Play Store and its associated APIs provided by Google?

the main services talked about as being 'missing' from AOSP all seem to rely on Google in the backend. they open sourced the Android OS, not Google, inc.
 
K

Kinky John

Member
Kinky John said:
4U7.png
Click to expand...

Downloading now. About time Nokia!
 
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