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[cdyhybrid]

I get that balancing is hard, but it's a really bad look when people were telling them these exact things for months in alpha and beta.

Balance is top-down. They don't need to listen to Johnny Casual's balance opinion because nothing he does is difficult enough to have class balance tip the scales for anything.

Not to mention the fact that a lot of people just end up copying the elite players/theorycrafters anyway.

Blizzard isn't dumb, it's not hard to tell who knows what they're talking about and who doesn't. There's no harm in listening to those people.

 

[Tacitus_]

But then youd react like this

So no

Like what, pissed?

Yes, I'd pissed if they said that they wouldn't listen to any feedback. But less pissed than now, when they don't listen to any feedback but claim that they do. Honesty would be refreshing.

They know who the top tier players are, they can check their maths. But they won't believe them until reality beats it to their skulls that they were right. It's repeated itself for a couple expansions now. It's the same in Hearthstone and was the same for the majority of SC2s life. HotS started the same but they seem to more or less listen now.

 

[Lanrutcon]

I was amazed because I never thought I'd hear Blizzard admit that stuff

That's where I am as a Warlock. Just having Blizzard acknowledge specific issues like, blows my mind and causes me to post excitedly.

 

[Einchy]

In their position, its a minority telling them that they got it completely wrong on fury and warlocks. If they changed everything on the whims of a minority, they would probably be worse for it.

I can't speak about Warlocks but for Warriors the changes the community is asking for are completely logical and wouldn't be too hard to change. Every Fury Warrior sees these issues after playing the spec for a few days, so it amazes me that Blizzard does not and it's actually really disheartening that they are incapable of seeing something see goddamn obvious.

It makes them look incompetent.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Like what, pissed?

Yes, I'd pissed if they said that they wouldn't listen to any feedback. But less pissed than now, when they don't listen to any feedback but claim that they do. Honesty would be refreshing.

They know who the top tier players are, they can check their maths. But they won't believe them until reality beats it to their skulls that they were right. It's repeated itself for a couple expansions now. It's the same in Hearthstone and was the same for the majority of SC2s life. HotS started the same but they seem to more or less listen now.

Thats the thing, they cant just listen to the pro players.

Trust me I know what youre going through. Riot does the same thing where they have to balance for everyone. In that case, you have champions who are complete shit in pro play, but decent in casual play. If Riot listened to just pro players and changed these champions/balanced around high level play, chances are the game would be better off for people who play it seriously, but suck for everyone else who doesnt.

Trust me, I know where youre coming from. Ive had the same umbridge with Riot over their balancing act of catering to the lowest common denominator, but you have to make the assumption that only a minority is being vocal about warlocks compared to the actual playerbase who might think theyre fine.

 

[Shahadan]

I was playing FFXV and in a dungeon that was rather stressful to begin with, an NPC has the good idea to say "Something's not quite right..."

I immediately started running away from where I was :lol:

Damn you Suramar, this phrase is forever ruined in my head.

 

[Einchy]

Thats the thing, they cant just listen to the pro players.

Trust me I know what youre going through. Riot does the same thing where they have to balance for everyone. In that case, you have champions who are complete shit in pro play, but decent in casual play. If Riot listened to just pro players and changed these champions/balanced around high level play, chances are the game would be better off for people who play it seriously, but suck for everyone else who doesnt.

Trust me, I know where youre coming from. Ive had the same umbridge with Riot over their balancing act of catering to the lowest common denominator, but you have to make the assumption that only a minority is being vocal about warlocks compared to the actual playerbase who might think theyre fine.

I get the idea that you don't balance high play for millions of people but this is about basic rotational things in a class, something that everyone from the guy doing normal dungeons to the guy fighting mythic Helya have to deal with and when extremely knowledgeable people that have played the class for years tell you "this doesn't feel good" and most of them are saying the same thing, assuming they're wrong is completely ass-backwards.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I get the idea that you don't balance high play for millions of people but this is about basic rotational things in a class, something that everyone from the guy doing normal dungeons to the guy fighting mythic Helya have to deal with and when extremely knowledgeable people that have played the class for years tell you "this doesn't feel good" and most of them are saying the same thing, assuming they're wrong is completely ass-backwards.

It doesnt feel good because they have had previous iterations to deal with.

Like, I think fire doesnt feel good because of the combustion changes, it feels dumbed down compared to getting a good ignite roll, but I understand what they were going for. Destro warlocks also feel ok to me, not the best, but not unplayable. Demo is a mess but thats because theres so much upkeep on the pets as well as resource management. And I dislike that they removed metamorphosis.

But that doesnt mean that our word is law. That is, people who think the class should play 1 way. Maybe joe casual thinks warlocks feel fine or that fire is better than before. Erring on the side of the minority playerbase could go horribly wrong if theyre not careful.

 

[spootime]

So I started playing this game back in August, and I created a heroic raiding guild with my experienced mythic raiding friend. He's our raidleader, and we have a small group of 8 IRL friends who are pretty good at the game so far. We generally pug 2-3 players every night and we dont take it too seriously. We've cleared HC EN but we fuck around a lot, let people die in raid, etc.

Last night, our friends old mythic guild needed players so we all jumped into their raid for the night. We didnt expect to do anything since we all had zero mythic experience but we ended up killing nythendra, elerethe, and got ursoc to 10% (this guild is only 4/7 i think?). We were all shocked. Not only did we kill bosses, but some of our DPS were topping the charts on a few occasions.

We also thought it was about 1000% more fun than raiding heroic. I honestly don't know if I can go back to fucking around in heroic EN while I know I could be raiding mythic instead. The downside is that if we decided to end our guild and do mythic raiding, we'd have to do so without a few people we've been carrying so far.

Either way, I'm glad I got the chance to try it out. I was getting pretty bored of HC EN. I've heard from people that heroic Nighthold will be roughly equal with mythic EN so I'm definitely looking forward to that.

 

[Tacitus_]

Thats the thing, they cant just listen to the pro players.

Trust me I know what youre going through. Riot does the same thing where they have to balance for everyone. In that case, you have champions who are complete shit in pro play, but decent in casual play. If Riot listened to just pro players and changed these champions/balanced around high level play, chances are the game would be better off for people who play it seriously, but suck for everyone else who doesnt.

Trust me, I know where youre coming from. Ive had the same umbridge with Riot over their balancing act of catering to the lowest common denominator, but you have to make the assumption that only a minority is being vocal about warlocks compared to the actual playerbase who might think theyre fine.

Numbers are one thing, but they fucked up with the class design so badly that they made playing warlock unfun. And for 2/3 of the specs there were more or less good versions already, but they changed them for the worse for "class fantasy". At least with Fury you can compensate in casual stuff, but the +dmg taken is still a boneheaded design decision.

 

[Einchy]

It doesnt feel good because they have had previous iterations to deal with.

Like, I think fire doesnt feel good because of the combustion changes, it feels dumbed down compared to getting a good ignite roll, but I understand what they were going for. Destro warlocks also feel ok to me, not the best, but not unplayable. Demo is a mess but thats because theres so much upkeep on the pets as well as resource management. And I dislike that they removed metamorphosis.

But that doesnt mean that our word is law. That is, people who think the class should play 1 way. Maybe joe casual thinks warlocks feel fine or that fire is better than before. Erring on the side of the minority playerbase could go horribly wrong if theyre not careful.

Again, I can't speak about Warlocks because I don't play one, but that's not anywhere near what is happening with Fury Warriors. The community isn't saying, "this doesn't feel good because it's different than what it was before", they're saying it feels bad but it's just a downright bad designs and they've been giving a ton of well thought out advice on how you can improve upon it.

Is our word law? No but I would hope logic would be and that's what the Warrior community has shown while the same cannot be said about Blizzard.

Being Fury in Legion, and Arms in WoD, has made me feel like a real life version of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UFQWKjy_I

For fucking once, Blizzard, listen to your players.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Numbers are one thing, but they fucked up with the class design so badly that they made playing warlock unfun. And for 2/3 of the specs there were more or less good versions already, but they changed them for the worse for "class fantasy". At least with Fury you can compensate in casual stuff, but the +dmg taken is still a boneheaded design decision.

Trust me I know, I want my fire horse galloping across the ocean back too. But we live in an era where changes have to keep being made for the sake of differing a class from last expansion. I imagine people who play locms would complain if they didnt change anything for warlocks while every other spec got huge tune ups to make them unique within their class.

Edit: Einchy I dont play warr so I cant comment on their changes as much as warlock. The whirlwind animations are cool tho

 

[Lomax]

I feel like a few fairly minor changes to demo would make a huge difference in flow of play, especially solo and small group, but it sounds like they'll just try to keep the numbers competitive and then scrap it again next expansion, which disappoints me. After all, if they are dumping the artifacts they basically have to redo the entire system yet again anyway.

 

[Einchy]

Edit: Einchy I dont play warr so I cant comment on their changes as much as warlock. The whirlwind animations are cool tho

That's the thing, Fury is actually fun and people like it, however, it has some REALLY dumb things that could be fixed fairly easily and Blizzard won't do it and hasn't commented on it.

Archimintriros wrote a bit about some of the things that need to change to make the class play better.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...Discussion?p=43533943&viewfull=1#post43533943

 

[Moff]

got my second legendary today, the firemage bracers with the 300% hardcast pyroblast proc

I feel a bit meh about it, I do like the idea of legendaries changing up your rotation, but I can't imagine the dps increase being significantly big

still, I could have gotten sephuz I guess

if you want o know my unique story of how I got them, they dropped from the suramar emissary chest after doing world quests every day for 2 months simply for that thiny chance for a legendary

 

[spootime]

got my second legendary today, the firemage bracers with the 300% hardcast pyroblast proc

I feel a bit meh about it, I do like the idea of legendaries changing up your rotation, but I can't imagine the dps increase being significantly big

still, I could have gotten sephuz I guess

if you want o know my unique story of how I got them, they dropped from the suramar emissary chest

dude those are BIS for your class, they add like 15% damage or something crazy like that.

 

[vocab]

got my second legendary today, the firemage bracers with the 300% hardcast pyroblast proc

I feel a bit meh about it, I do like the idea of legendaries changing up your rotation, but I can't imagine the dps increase being significantly big

still, I could have gotten sephuz I guess

if you want o know my unique story of how I got them, they dropped from the suramar emissary chest after doing world quests every day for 2 months simply for that thiny chance for a legendary

They are overpowered on live.

 

[cartographer]

got my second legendary today, the firemage bracers with the 300% hardcast pyroblast proc

I feel a bit meh about it, I do like the idea of legendaries changing up your rotation, but I can't imagine the dps increase being significantly big

still, I could have gotten sephuz I guess

if you want o know my unique story of how I got them, they dropped from the suramar emissary chest after doing world quests every day for 2 months simply for that thiny chance for a legendary

One of the best legendary items in the game, full stop.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

got my second legendary today, the firemage bracers with the 300% hardcast pyroblast proc

I feel a bit meh about it, I do like the idea of legendaries changing up your rotation, but I can't imagine the dps increase being significantly big

still, I could have gotten sephuz I guess

if you want o know my unique story of how I got them, they dropped from the suramar emissary chest after doing world quests every day for 2 months simply for that thiny chance for a legendary

Those bracers make hardcasting Pyroblast worth it. Its the equivalent of firing 3 pyroblasts but with one cast.

If you combustion it(cast Pyroblast and then activate Combustion near the end of the cast) the ignite and damage will be fucking insane. Im talking 3 million damage from the pyroblast alone.

 

[Sölf]

"Oh yeah, managed to get 2 Chests on Darkheart +8, what did we get?"

Sees Court of Stars +10 with Tyrannical Affix.

 

[Moff]

Those bracers make hardcasting Pyroblast worth it. Its the equivalent of firing 3 pyroblasts but with one cast.

If you combustion it(cast Pyroblast and then activate Combustion near the end of the cast) the ignite and damage will be fucking insane. Im talking 3 million damage from the pyroblast alone.

Yeah I am still wondering how to use rune of power and combustion now.

I only got a 2.2M crit so far though

 

[Tacitus_]

Trust me I know, I want my fire horse galloping across the ocean back too. But we live in an era where changes have to keep being made for the sake of differing a class from last expansion. I imagine people who play locms would complain if they didnt change anything for warlocks while every other spec got huge tune ups to make them unique within their class.

Edit: Einchy I dont play warr so I cant comment on their changes as much as warlock. The whirlwind animations are cool tho

More evidence that change for the sake of change isn't worth it. And really ironic when Blizz spouts about "class fantasy" and "diversifying specs" and then make warlocks all use the same resource to unify the specs.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

More evidence that change for the sake of change isn't worth it. And really ironic when Blizz spouts about "class fantasy" and "diversifying specs" and then make warlocks all use the same resource to unify the specs.

That I can agree with. Change for the sake of change sucks.

 

[Einchy]

Their attempt to force spec fantasies was one of the worst things they've done for classes.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Their attempt to force spec fantasies was one of the worst things they've done for classes.

I disagree. I can agree that they messed up with Warlocks class fantasies, but for mages and deathknights it feels great. Ele shammies feel good too.

 

[cdyhybrid]

Fantasy and gameplay are separate things. They put fantasy over gameplay and that was a mistake.

 

[Anoregon]

Fantasy and gameplay are separate things. They put fantasy over gameplay and that was a mistake.

It's not just that, I think there is also in some cases a pretty big disconnect between player class fantasy and what Blizzard thinks the spec is supposed to be.

I mean, take Demo as an example. Who, exactly, thought the pinnacle of "Demonologist fantasy" boiled down to constantly re-summoning the weakest demons Warlocks have access to and immediately casting a mandatory buff to make them worthwhile? In an expansion that has a bunch of new, imposing demon models, that is what they decided to go with?

 

[v1perz53]

I disagree. I can agree that they messed up with Warlocks class fantasies, but for mages and deathknights it feels great. Ele shammies feel good too.

I mean, what about mages changed that made them more in tune with their "spec fantasy" in terms of actual gameplay changes? All of the changes just make the specs play slightly differently than they did in WoD, but I don't feel like more of a FIRE mage this expansion than last, because some random things were removed. Honestly, for the specs you listed, the "spec fantasy" comes 90% from the artifacts and order campaign, as opposed to any pruning or class changes that were done in order to differentiate the classes and specs. Fire/Frost/Arcane mage, Frost DK and Ele sham were some of the least changed specs mechanically as well, so it seems to align with your feelings that the classes they changed the least ended up better off.

 

[Lomax]

It's not just that, I think there is also in some cases a pretty big disconnect between player class fantasy and what Blizzard thinks the spec is supposed to be.

I mean, take Demo as an example. Who, exactly, thought the pinnacle of "Demonologist fantasy" boiled down to constantly re-summoning the weakest demons Warlocks have access to and immediately casting a mandatory buff to make them worthwhile? In an expansion that has a bunch of new, imposing demon models, that is what they decided to go with?

Yeah, I completely agree. I felt more like I was traveling around with a demon hoard during WoD since my imps lasted 2 minutes than I do now. I never really see any of them now. And the floating demon head is cool, but it basically does nothing otherwise, and the artifact ability is more annoying to use than anything else. On paper in theory it sounded like interesting ideas, but it was poorly executed both thematically and in terms of in game execution. Though honestly the execution is the one I want them to fix first.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I mean, what about mages changed that made them more in tune with their "spec fantasy" in terms of actual gameplay changes? All of the changes just make the specs play slightly differently than they did in WoD, but I don't feel like more of a FIRE mage this expansion than last, because some random things were removed. Honestly, for the specs you listed, the "spec fantasy" comes 90% from the artifacts and order campaign, as opposed to any pruning or class changes that were done in order to differentiate the classes and specs. Fire/Frost/Arcane mage, Frost DK and Ele sham were some of the least changed specs mechanically as well, so it seems to align with your feelings that the classes they changed the least ended up better off.

I think the artifacts had to do alot with how Blizzard changed the classes to be honest.

Take Felomelorn. The Phoenix Flames by themselves are underwhelming. Bur in conjunction with the rest of the class and proccing hot streak, they have amazing utility and are necessary in its rotation. Or Frost DKs and the fact that they have an awesome CD in Sindragosa, and how their artifact just amplifies their auto attacking.

And I think thats whats happened this expansion. They cornered themselves into making gameplay changes that took into account of these artifacts. Take Demo Locks, they got a bunch of different demon summoning spells. Most of their changes were to amplify these demons. Their artifacts power is dependent on all these new demon pets.

So if they change anything for demo locks, they have to change the artifact to go along with it. Thats the corner theyve dug themselves into, that for this expansion, its not as simple as just changing the class itself withiut ruining the artifact.

 

[Napalm_Frank]

An ally is an ally, no matter how small!

 

[Anoregon]

.

So if they change anything for demo locks, they have to change the artifact to go along with it. Thats the corner theyve dug themselves into, that for this expansion, its not as simple as just changing the class itself withiut ruining the artifact.

I don't think it would require many changes on the Demo artifact if they were going to seriously address the specs big issues. The bigger issue is how multiple talents are designed around the current version of constantly re-cast Demonic Empowerment. If they are to bite the bullet and make a significant change to DE's place in the spec/rotation, at least 2 talents will need total reworks, whereas only one artifact trait interacts with it, and in such a way that it may not even need a change.

 

[Einchy]

 

[Robin64]

Bite the bullet and buy the book. Got mine for 10k a while back, and that was a bargain to not have to do AV.

 

[Fularu]

"Oh yeah, managed to get 2 Chests on Darkheart +8, what did we get?"

Sees Court of Stars +10 with Tyrannical Affix.

Court of stars is fine. I like it a lot actually

 

[Einchy]

YEAH BABI, I GOTS ME A NAT PAGLE THINGER

Goddamn, AV is the worst as Horde.

Court of stars is fine. I like it a lot actually

Court is only bad because of the last boss requiring a shit ton of DPS on Tyrannical, so if you don't have decent gear, you're kinda fucked.

 

[Fularu]

YEAH BABI, I GOTS ME A NAT PAGLE THINGER

Goddamn, AV is the worst as Horde.


Court is only bad because of the last boss requiring a shit ton of DPS on Tyrannical, so if you don't have decent gear, you're kinda fucked.

That's kinda the point of high level M+. You need the gear.

Also the last boss is easier on tyrannical than the second one

 

[Einchy]

That's kinda the point of high level M+. You need the gear.

Also the last boss is easier on tyrannical than the second one

My point is that you need much more gear for that boss compared to other bosses in mythic plus. And I completely disagree that the last boss is easier than the second on Tyrannical, as long as you don't fuck up on the second boss, you can continue doing the fight. The last boss gets harder and harder as it goes on and at some point your healer will not be able to keep you up. That fight has a very short soft enrage, something that isn't much of an issue with other bosses on ten Tyrannical.

 

[TheYanger]

That's kinda the point of high level M+. You need the gear.

Also the last boss is easier on tyrannical than the second one

The last boss is not easier on tyrannical than the second one. Not even close. The last boss will literally just end your run if you can't outdps the race against too many clones for your healer to handle. The second boss doesn't increase damage NEARLY as quickly. Court Tyrannical is completely binary in terms of required dps vs your ability to finish it. It's totally doable, but it's heavily gear dependant or you rely on luck with the activatable items, which is actually the key to beating CoS at high levels. You just reset if you don't get the items you want. I've gone in on...11? with a full 7/7M group and gotten 0 dps clickies and had an AWFUL time killing him. like over an hour of attempts. Similarly you can go in and get 10% crit 10% damage 10% haste and just breeze through, but suffice to say we outgear the shit out of M10.

There are other bosses that are as bad or worse with tyrannical, don't get me wrong, but to say it's an easy one or the second boss is harder? laughable.

 

[mclem]

Bite the bullet and buy the book. Got mine for 10k a while back, and that was a bargain to not have to do AV.

I did a random battleground to complete the quest I got from my mission board, rolled AV, completed it, got the book. Only battleground I've done this entire expansion.

Spoiler

I'm prot

 

[Einchy]

This Ashbringer questline is pretty insane, now I have to camp a mob that can take up to 31 hours to spawn, haven't done this shit since Poundfist.

 

[1.09]

xd

ToV

 

[Haly]

Xddddddd

 

[Fularu]

The last boss is not easier on tyrannical than the second one. Not even close. The last boss will literally just end your run if you can't outdps the race against too many clones for your healer to handle. The second boss doesn't increase damage NEARLY as quickly. Court Tyrannical is completely binary in terms of required dps vs your ability to finish it. It's totally doable, but it's heavily gear dependant or you rely on luck with the activatable items, which is actually the key to beating CoS at high levels. You just reset if you don't get the items you want. I've gone in on...11? with a full 7/7M group and gotten 0 dps clickies and had an AWFUL time killing him. like over an hour of attempts. Similarly you can go in and get 10% crit 10% damage 10% haste and just breeze through, but suffice to say we outgear the shit out of M10.

There are other bosses that are as bad or worse with tyrannical, don't get me wrong, but to say it's an easy one or the second boss is harder? laughable.

We have an easier time on him than on the second boss as a melee heavy group.

Your experience is just that, yours, now kindly stop believing that everything you say is the gospel and our experiences are "laughable"

 

[1.09]

Rare occasion, but yanger's actually right here.

on higher tyrannical CoS, the 3rd boss is considered the 'show-stopper'. Even in a melee comp, you're most likely going to have a combination of aoe silences, aoe stuns, burst aoe, and that's all you need to take care of the imps. Simply walking along the circle makes the imps trivial.

The last boss on the other hand there is no more 'easy way' (RIP bugged charges). It's a cruel, hard, dps check for most groups.

 

[Einchy]

Yay, Cenarius down.

 

[Faiz]

Maybe dialing back my desire to go back and level my mage for now. Considering going back to my Warlock which sits at 85 - there would be a lot less to do to get it to Legion, and leveling would involve content I've never played at all.

But sounds like locks are pretty dissatisfied in general. And looking at the current Demo rotation kinda makes my head spin.

Not really sure what to do just tired of rolling 10 straight 1's with RtB on my Oulaw. Having a hard time judging what to switch to. Seems every class has loudly dissatisfied players trying to convince me their class is nothing but heartache.

 

[MetroidPrimeRib]

:re Warlocks and Warlock issues as a lock main since Wrath who does Heroic raids but not Mythic

Warlocks have always been weird but now we're in an even weirder situation with Demon Hunters stealing one of our specs. The idea of being a tanky caster that can absorb and self heal was cool, but since we lost Metamorphosis we also lost the possibility of Demo becoming a Tank spec which would have been cool and unique. I also don't know why things like Burning Rush and Demonic Portal (our only movement options besides Gateway) aren't baseline. Doesn't help that Demonic Pact is no longer baseline either, so our only defensive CD is Demonic Resolve. Oh and we have no real interrupt unless you want to use Felhunter or Grimoire: Felhunter (you don't.)

I think the real issue is that the current Warlock specs are good/decent in one area and one area only and you have to completely spec into that. You can't have good single target, multi-target and AoE damage all in one. You have to put all your chips into one spot.

Aff - Oh boy. Affliction. First off - Affliction's artifact ability and 2/3 gold traits rely on a feature that Ulthalesh no longer has. Ulthalesh used to spawn souls on its own for you to kill and reap which would trigger gold traits and artifact abilities but that doesn't happen anymore. On a fight with little to no adds? Fuck off then because your uptime on Reap Souls will be downright pathetic. And you wouldn't use Affliction in a raid anyway because the single target damage is shit even with Soul Effigy, Write in Agony and Siphon Life.

Where Aff does have an advantage is AoE if you spec into Sow the Seeds and Phantom Singularity (PS I like but it tends to pull stuff so it can be hard to use in some dungeons.) Now Aff's version of AoE really only takes effect when the tank can pull a big group. 3-4 anyone can do AoE on, but double or triple that Aff starts to downright shit damage. Sow the Seeds and then make it pop once and you are in business, even without Absolute Corruption. Continue sowing the seeds and using PS as needed and once mobs start to die, Soul Flame will trigger and can cause a chain reaction where everyone just explodes if they are all around 10-15% HP. In Nightbane runs, I usually outdps everything but Death Knights as Aff and its my preferred choice for Mythic +. I also have Unstable Horrorslime and Aran's Relaxing Ruby which help with the AoE too. Because of this its also my preferred leveling/WQ spec.

Another issue - Aff is a fucking snoozefest to play. Here are your base abilities - Corruption, Agony, Unstable Affliction, Drain Life/Soul. That's it. Seed of Corruption is useless without Sow the Seeds so I'm not even gonna count that, and your main shard dump is UA while your buffer ability is...Drain Life/Soul. Even when you throw in Soul Effigy and Siphon Life its still a snooze to play unless you are doing Dragons, which you wouldn't use Aff on since Destro dominates that fight DPS wise.

Demo - Hey remember when Blizzard said they didn't want to have a spec where add-ons were essentially required to play? OOPS THEY MADE ONE.

Demo is weird. The revamp certainly sounds cool on paper - become the master of a neverending swarm of demons and overwhelm your opponent through ankle biting. In practice, demons are fancy DoTs. DoTs that you have to cast a spell (Demonic Empowerment) to make them do anything. Every. Single. Time. Unless one of your demons is going to come off cooldown in a second, you will cast DE every single time you use Dreadstalkers, Hand of Gul'Dan, Summon Darkglare, Summon Infernal/Doomguard or a Grimoire. DE isn't instant cast either, so if you have to move at all during the fight then your DPS will tank. The demons also don't last long at all, so your rotation is an extreme clusterfuck, and you gotta make sure to keep Doom up 100% at all times on every solid target.

But the real add-on kicker is Skull of the Man'ari's artifact ability, Thal'kiel's Consumption. It takes 8% of each demons health and then deals it to your target. This can get to some real high numbers but it requires you to keep track of how many demons you have, make sure they are all buffed by DE, and won't expire before you finish casting. And its on a 40s cooldown. And you need to line it up with the rest of your cooldowns. Its...complicated.

You get shittalking floating skull though so it's alright

Destro - I haven't put a lot of time into destro at all but Havoc owns on Dragons and the mastery is just RNG.

You can get Rain of Chaos tho and that owns

 

[Einchy]

7/7m!

It's funny how easy Xavius is compared to Cenarius.

 

[Strimei]

Ok I'm liking this new Kirin Tor WQ. Its like the thing with Ularogg in Neltharion's Lair.