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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Really not enjoying playing DPS Warrior at all in Nighthold. WoD talents gave way more options and now it's just like I'm hoping my spec just doesn't get dunked on by the inane mechanics of the fight, because I can do zero to really adapt most of the time.
 

Bizazedo

Member
Really not enjoying playing DPS Warrior at all in Nighthold. WoD talents gave way more options and now it's just like I'm hoping my spec just doesn't get dunked on by the inane mechanics of the fight, because I can do zero to really adapt most of the time.

I'm feeling more & more frustrated by the balancing the Devs have done this expac. I am trying to ignore the horror that is PvP balancing and even then, the balancing is bad.

Like are they even aware of the frustration? Even today, they nerfed Spontaneous Appendages and now boom....

Spontaneous Appendages: the damage done by the spontaneous appendages generated by Spontaneous Appendages has been increased by 65%.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Really not enjoying playing DPS Warrior at all in Nighthold. WoD talents gave way more options and now it's just like I'm hoping my spec just doesn't get dunked on by the inane mechanics of the fight, because I can do zero to really adapt most of the time.

I'm really really really enjoying fury, which spec are you playing / what's your armory? NH is very favorable to Fury.

On another note, I just rage quit my guild tonight. Still pissed. Our "loot council" voted to give Draught of Souls, a trinket that was made for warrior's (literally increases warrior ST by a flat 15-20%) to a ret paladin who dies every fight and posts 14-16th consistently on the logs for a whopping 3-4% damage increase for him, in his own words "might be my 2nd or 3rd best trinket hehe." The GM even asked me for logs and the like during the week to see just how big the trinket was for warrior's specifically. I happily obliged and explained to him how we can apply a 220% damage multiplier to it with battle cry (and showed the 15-20% logs on PURE ST) compared to other classes who can at most apply 20-50%.

Fuck that noise, what the fuck is a loot council even for then?
 

Metroidvania

People called Romanes they go the house?
Aaaaaaand Blizz nerfs Convergence into the ground for Ret after one day, lol.

I guess they never learned from Bryn'troll.

Or Tiny Abom in a Jar.

Or Gurth'Talak.

Who'da thunk.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
I'm really really really enjoying fury, which spec are you playing / what's your armory? NH is very favorable to Fury.

On another note, I just rage quit my guild tonight. Still pissed. Our "loot council" voted to give Draught of Souls, a trinket that was made for warrior's (literally increases warrior ST by a flat 15-20%) to a ret paladin who dies every fight and posts 14-16th consistently on the logs for a whopping 3-4% damage increase for him, in his own words "might be my 2nd or 3rd best trinket hehe." The GM even asked me for logs and the like during the week to see just how big the trinket was for warrior's specifically. I happily obliged and explained to him how we can apply a 220% damage multiplier to it with battle cry (and showed the 15-20% logs on PURE ST) compared to other classes who can at most apply 20-50%.

Fuck that noise, what the fuck is a loot council even for then?

Yea that's some pure bullshit. I'm guessing the guy is popular with the council?
 
Aaaaaaand Blizz nerfs Convergence into the ground for Ret after one day, lol.

I guess they never learned from Bryn'troll.

Or Tiny Abom in a Jar.

Or Gurth'Talak.

Who'da thunk.

Remember when pallies got glitched in cataclysm so that their seal would constantly apply and they did ridic damage. I remember.
 

Mupod

Member
We just came within 20 seconds of finishing Maw+15 in time...dammit! She submerged at 71%, we were so close. We can do this though, we actually fucked up the first boss a bit in that run. We've got all week to get this key done while the ezmode affixes are up.

Also FINALLY got my fifth legendary (got the fourth over 2 months ago) and it's Seal of Necrofantasia. I already have the belt, so looks like it's time to try out the Breath of Sindragosa spec that everyone's on about.
 
I fucking hate raid groups that spend 20 minutes in between pulls for bosses. My flask isn't infinite. I'm four shots of Yukon Jack in and I'm still top dps
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
I'm really really really enjoying fury, which spec are you playing / what's your armory? NH is very favorable to Fury.
I pretty much exclusively play Arms. The Fury playstyle is not interesting to me at all, even though I've kept the artifact up and could switch to it. I just feel like I'm missing a lot when it comes to raiding where there used to be more talent strategy when confronting a boss. I literally cannot touch anything on my talent tree except for the first row, and that doesn't do a whole lot. Fury is not really that different, it's just more versatile on a base level because it doesn't have the same AoE hard limits that Arms has. I get to something like High Botanist Tel'arn and I miss the old cleave tools that I used to have that carried Arms to really high places on fights like Maidens. There's nothing I can spec into and moving to Fury doesn't really enable me with a toolset that would do much there either.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Yea that's some pure bullshit. I'm guessing the guy is popular with the council?

He's a 2-3 week recruit and that's what enraged me even more. I loved like 1/4th of that guild, especially the guild leader and raid leader, but unfortunately the loot council has like 10 people on it and 8 of those guys are old guard officers that happen to suck ass, die repeatedly on attempts, and all around not care.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
*grabs mic*

*put mic against mouth*

*feedback echos throughout the thread*

Arms is dumb

*flies away*
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
He's a 2-3 week recruit and that's what enraged me even more. I loved like 1/4th of that guild, especially the guild leader and raid leader, but unfortunately the loot council has like 10 people on it and 8 of those guys are old guard officers that happen to suck ass, die repeatedly on attempts, and all around not care.

Ugh, you gotta talk to the guild leader. The whole point of a loot council is so that shit doesn't happen. I mean, if this is how it's going to go you may as well use personal loot.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
I pretty much exclusively play Arms. The Fury playstyle is not interesting to me at all, even though I've kept the artifact up and could switch to it. I just feel like I'm missing a lot when it comes to raiding where there used to be more talent strategy when confronting a boss. I literally cannot touch anything on my talent tree except for the first row, and that doesn't do a whole lot. Fury is not really that different, it's just more versatile on a base level because it doesn't have the same AoE hard limits that Arms has. I get to something like High Botanist Tel'arn and I miss the old cleave tools that I used to have that carried Arms to really high places on fights like Maidens. There's nothing I can spec into and moving to Fury doesn't really enable me with a toolset that would do much there either.

I love Arms' playstyle. I hate arms' aoe limitation and absolutely hate the RNG palooza. Felt like everytime I played arms, my dps was often not in my hands but in the hands of the tactician gods (didn't help that I had none of the safety net legs pre-7.1.5).

I don't know, I switched to Fury and never looked back. Unless you have the ring + gloves as arms, Fury's ST is very comparable (if not better) and much much more consistent. Fury's AoE and cleave is much better. And I personally find Fury fun and much less frustrating.

The big thing that made Fury feel a lot more fun to me post-7.1.5 were the buffs to frothing berserker and reckless abandon. DR was clunky and irritating, reckless abandon is a ton of fun and a 7s BC just feels so good. Getting a free rampage and frothing proc guaranteed before every BC also feels amazing. It also shifted a ton of Fury's ST damage from execute phase (aka live or die by the Juggernaut) into more frontloaded damage which was a huge issue/concern Fury had pre-7.1.5.

Ugh, you gotta talk to the guild leader. The whole point of a loot council is so that shit doesn't happen. I mean, if this is how it's going to go you may as well use personal loot.


Believe me, I tried. I didn't expect tier pieces. I didn't expect off pieces. I didn't expect relics. I expected a trinket that increases Warrior ST by 15-20% flat, as opposed to 4-8% for other classes.

I talked to the GM extensively the week prior about this trinket, he seemed convinced and intrigued. The problem again is that our loot council is a council -- they vote, and over half the people that have a vote are fairly casual bads, straight up. They are old guard officers that some of the more progression oriented officers seem to resent at times, but they are entrenched. They obviously treat the loot council as a popularity contest or loot as a whole as a more social thing; so yeah, why the fuck have a loot council in the first place?

Anyhow, that's why I rage quit I guess.
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Felt like everytime I played arms, my dps was often not in my hands but in the hands
I don't know, I switched to Fury and never looked back. Unless you have the ring + gloves as arms, Fury's ST is very comparable (if not better) and much much more consistent. Fury's AoE and cleave is much better. And I personally find Fury fun and much less frustrating.

The big thing that made Fury feel a lot more fun to me post-7.1.5 were the buffs to frothing berserker and reckless abandon. DR was clunky and irritating, reckless abandon is a ton of fun and a 7s BC just feels so good. Getting a free rampage and frothing proc guaranteed before every BC also feels amazing. It also shifted a ton of Fury's ST damage from execute phase (aka live or die by the Juggernaut) into more frontloaded damage which was a huge issue/concern Fury had pre-7.1.5.
I have ring and gloves. Gloves were probably the legendary nerfed the hardest in 7.1.5 though, and they went from being the best legendary to like fourth best. Fury is much smother with FB + RA, but I just can't come to terms with the broken execute phase or the single rage dump. Fury cleave/AoE does not really impress me on most NH fights and I don't see the spec tracking well on stuff like Aluriel or High Botanist.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
I have ring and gloves. Gloves were probably the legendary nerfed the hardest in 7.1.5 though, and they went from being the best legendary to like fourth best. Fury is much smother with FB + RA, but I just can't come to terms with the broken execute phase or the single rage dump. Fury cleave/AoE does not really impress me on most NH fights and I don't see the spec tracking well on stuff like Aluriel or High Botanist.

See I hated the broken execute phase pre-7.1.5, but the brilliant thing is that it's no longer broken. It actually feels better with frothing than it did with Massacre. The reason we're seeing Fury warriors randomly top ST fights is because of this.

With frothing, your execute phase simply becomes sustain rage with BT + RB + autos, and expend as much as you can on just regular ass executes to get jugg stacks ramping. Then, the beauty moment hits. You have 15+ stacks of juggernaut from just spamming execute; you slam that 7s BC, get 100 free rage for the 15% damage buff, hit BT once (if not already enraged), and then fucking go ham on those executes and hit the boss back to back to back for 1-2mil+ per hit. It's a phenomenal feel and one of the reasons why I absolutely love fury 7.1.5. Also, NH is very juggernaut friendly in that your stacks will rarely drop like in EN and ToV because of execute phase mechanics. You can very easily stack up like crazy on a boss like Krosus then just unload enormous executes during your 7s BC.

With convergence also having 5ppm for Fury (only 3 for arms), your BC CD on average becomes 25s lol, which is just going to lead to insane execute phase logs from Fury warriors. I can't imagine a Fury warr with convergence + DoS, it's honestly the dream and I don't think anything will come close to the ST damage. Maybe an extremely luck arms warr with the same trinkets and 4 set, but he has to be lucky -- we have consistency.
 

Bizazedo

Member
I have ring and gloves. Gloves were probably the legendary nerfed the hardest in 7.1.5 though, and they went from being the best legendary to like fourth best. Fury is much smother with FB + RA, but I just can't come to terms with the broken execute phase or the single rage dump. Fury cleave/AoE does not really impress me on most NH fights and I don't see the spec tracking well on stuff like Aluriel or High Botanist.

Is there an updated list for how good / how bad the Arms Legendaries are? I also have the gloves and the ring :(.

And I dunno, the gloves still seem like they make Sweeping Strikes work.
 

Anbokr

Bull on a Donut
Is there an updated list for how good / how bad the Arms Legendaries are? I also have the gloves and the ring :(.

And I dunno, the gloves still seem like they make Sweeping Strikes work.

Last I saw, I believe it was Ring > Trinket (post-buff) > Legs = Gloves. Boots might have been ahead actually only because of itemization. The trinket sim/ranking is misleading though because you can slot in Convergence + Draught and it's about equivalent. So while the trinket is a good leg, it would definitely be third wheel to any mastery legs (or gloves) provided you have some good trinkets already.

The big hurt from the gloves is that they have no mastery, and you can instead opt for a tier piece with mastery. So it's a much bigger opportunity cost compared to just equipping legs, ring, boots, or even prydaz which have some nice mastery on them on top of other beneficial effects.

So tldr: ring is the best, you can pair it with a variety of other legs and be very effective -- it's kind of the sole standout leg right now as opposed to the ring + gloves combo being definitely head and shoulders the best in the last patch.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
http://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/mal-ganis/Einchy
dGScpfA.png


I'm ranked 2 for Sim DPS in US. :D
 

TheYanger

Member
the tier pieces look ugly

atleast for mage, it looks the same as every other cloth drop~

Depends on which difficulty you're looking at, the tier adds more bits as you get higher.

Not that I think mage looks great, but it's a bit hyperbolic to say it looks like random cloth. It's just kind of 'meh'.

I might be biased because DK tier is literally the best tier set they've ever made.
 
Depends on which difficulty you're looking at, the tier adds more bits as you get higher.

Not that I think mage looks great, but it's a bit hyperbolic to say it looks like random cloth. It's just kind of 'meh'.

I might be biased because DK tier is literally the best tier set they've ever made.

The normal mode mage tier set is literally teh same cloth helms that you get from a WQ for example
 

Moff

Member
I stopped hoping for pretty mage sets long time ago. T5 was the only good one.

That said, I was ready to cancel my sub, but I pugged the first 5 nighthold bosses yesterday and it was really fun. Was even spot 2 in damage with my fire mage. Spot 1 was an arcane mage with much higher ilvl.

If I find a proper raid group I might stick around.

I really miss ice floes though.
 

v1perz53

Member
I think the one thing that really irritates me as someone who basically exclusively does Mythic+, is how much they always end up tuning classes around their tier bonuses. For example, everyone is crying about the Bear nerfs, but says that 4 piece basically offsets this. Only issue is, I will never see 4piece because I don't raid, and while I may have equal ilvl to a Heroic raider, they will have 10-20% better defensive capabilities than me simply because of tier bonuses (even considering how much easier heroic NH is than mythic +15s, since I quite easily pugged 6 bosses of H NH so far). I really wish they would add tier pieces to the Mythic+ loot pool (and not just the weekly chest, because that would mean you would never get a set bonus) even if they put them at a low ilvl just in case there were some incredibly strong bonuses. Give them dumb appearances or whatever, I don't care, but throughout WoD classes were balanced based on these bonuses, and I really enjoy only having to do 5 man content to be reasonably relevant this expansion, don't kill this because of tier yet again.
 

TheYanger

Member
I think the one thing that really irritates me as someone who basically exclusively does Mythic+, is how much they seem to be tuning classes around their tier bonuses. For example, everyone is crying about the Bear nerfs, but says that 4 piece basically offsets this. Only issue is, I will never see 4piece because I don't raid, and while I may have equal ilvl to a Heroic raider, they will have 10-20% better defensive capabilities than me simply because of tier bonuses (even considering how much easier heroic NH is than mythic +15s, since I quite easily pugged 6 bosses of H NH so far). I really wish they would add tier pieces to the Mythic+ loot pool (and not just the weekly chest, because that would mean you would never get a set bonus) even if they put them at a low ilvl just in case there were some incredibly strong bonuses. Give them dumb appearances or whatever, I don't care, but throughout WoD classes were balanced based on these bonuses, and I really enjoy only having to do 5 man content to be reasonably relevant this expansion, don't kill this because of tier yet again.

lfr?
I mean, there are lots of bis level trinkets and relics in 5 mans, that raiders have to run too. You're laways going to be better off doing more types of content than less, but if you just want the bonus LFR will suffice and is 0 effort and almost 0 time.

If anything this expansion is disproportionately favoring 5 mans regardless, the amount of M+ you're required to run to be a reasonable raider is absurd.
 
Our guild started on heroic right away and we got the first 4 bosses down. The first 3 were pretty easy (Trilliax took a few tries for us to figure it out). Spellblade was the first real step up in difficulty for us but we took her down just in time before raid ended. Pretty cool bosses thus far.
 
Bokr if you played a caster my guild is recruiting some, unfortunately no room for more melee right now (we're already melee heavy), though I'm sure you'll find something if you want to.
 

v1perz53

Member
lfr?
I mean, there are lots of bis level trinkets and relics in 5 mans, that raiders have to run too. You're laways going to be better off doing more types of content than less, but if you just want the bonus LFR will suffice and is 0 effort and almost 0 time.

If anything this expansion is disproportionately favoring 5 mans regardless, the amount of M+ you're required to run to be a reasonable raider is absurd.

Ah I think I didn't make my point correctly. It isn't the power differential so much as blizzard has consistently used tier bonuses to patch holes in class mechanics, fundamentally change the way classes play, or change the enjoyment level of a class (which is the main point, and what frustrated me most in WoD, as some classes I played were flat out missing fun mechanics without tier). And even purely in a power perspective, many set bonuses offer a 10% or more increase in player power. I doubt there are many examples of 5 man trinkets that provide 10% power over all raiding equivalents. As you said, LFR is an option, but could you really say that it is good design if someone clearing Mythic +15s every week is best served wearing LFR gear for set bonuses? (Purely because it is so much easier than M+ or Mythic raiding). "Requiring" M+ to raid at least has you doing moderately equivalent content, though I would argue the "Mythic+" raiders are "required" to do is primarily low levels for AP, which is equivalent to farming Normal/Heroic raids when progressing on Mythic.

I guess all I am saying is if tier remains a numerical bonus I don't care, but if blizz continues their history of patching class mechanics via tier, it is much more of a hit to non-raiders than missing M+ trinkets is to raiders, so I fear for the future because of this. And obviously the worst case future scenario is that M+ players are forced to use LFR tier because it is so good, which is awful game design.

In the end, it is just me saying I don't want to be forced to wear gear that is 25 ilvls lower and drops from trivial content, invalidating my work on hard content simply because set bonuses are so strong. Same argument as people using a World Quest trinket as BiS for raiding because it has a lot of crit.
 

vocab

Member
Performance in NH is terrible. This shit is ruining a good portion of fun I'm having.


I'm really really really enjoying fury, which spec are you playing / what's your armory? NH is very favorable to Fury.

On another note, I just rage quit my guild tonight. Still pissed. Our "loot council" voted to give Draught of Souls, a trinket that was made for warrior's (literally increases warrior ST by a flat 15-20%) to a ret paladin who dies every fight and posts 14-16th consistently on the logs for a whopping 3-4% damage increase for him, in his own words "might be my 2nd or 3rd best trinket hehe." The GM even asked me for logs and the like during the week to see just how big the trinket was for warrior's specifically. I happily obliged and explained to him how we can apply a 220% damage multiplier to it with battle cry (and showed the 15-20% logs on PURE ST) compared to other classes who can at most apply 20-50%.

Fuck that noise, what the fuck is a loot council even for then?


That sucks. Sounds like your guild is very ignorant of what other specs of capable of. Everyone in my guild knows how broken that shit is for warriors, and we dont even have a warrior. Sims are really throwing draught for a loop. People are gonna get that shit, Use it once, and be like wtf is this shit. Its only good for Warriors, WW, UHDK, and feral aka ded spec. People look at spreadsheets and see draught is up there, and go thats my bis, but dont know why its bis. Because sims overvalue haste for everyone.
 

mclem

Member
Odd times in Nighthold; first three bosses go down without *too* much hassle, Aluriel was surprisingly tough. I'm wondering if possibly her adds aren't balanced right for groups of a certain size, they seem to have an awful lot of health. That said, we don't have great AoE DPS, so that might be a component, but still...
 

Mupod

Member
Thinking back to last night, we had some issues in Maw of Souls +15 I'd like to deal with before we throw ourselves at it again. I'm quite confident that we'll beat it next run (we only missed it by 20 seconds last time) but still. I'm a Blood DK at around 890.

- The first boss was such a joke before now that I never thought about it, but +15 tyrannical Dark Slash was doing insane amounts of damage to me. Was I missing something with this mechanic or do I really just need to have a cooldown or two up for every cast? I can trace our failure point on our last run to when I was at 70% health as he casted it and I was done. If there's nothing else to it and carefully cycling cooldowns is the answer, that's fine but jesus it seemed like it was hitting for 4-5 million.

- Why the fuck do I keep falling through the floor after we board the boat? It doesn't always happen, but on maybe 1/3 of our Maw runs I just drop through the boat and fall for 30 seconds before I die. On a speedrun this tight that's not cool. I've never seen this happen to anyone else either.

- Destructor Tentacles on Helya popping up and one-shotting people instantly. I think we've figured this out now because nobody died on our last two runs. I had everyone stay near the front or sides of the boat and that seemed to help. But if there's some tricky way to avoid this I wanna know.

Other than that I just need to pull more aggressively and we need to pull up our bootstraps on Helya phase 2 to avoid her submerging. I don't know how much an Old War will do as a tank but I'll bring one for a little more damage.
 

Ark

Member
We cleared 7/10 normal last night. Wiped on krosus cause of a hunter accidental pull, twice in tich because melee stood in the breath, and five times on botanist because we were figuring that fight out as we went along.

Overall I really like Nighthold. My FPS in there goes from 60 to 30, which is absolutely not ok, but otherwise I'm very impressed.

Look forward to starting heroic.
 
- The first boss was such a joke before now that I never thought about it, but +15 tyrannical Dark Slash was doing insane amounts of damage to me. Was I missing something with this mechanic or do I really just need to have a cooldown or two up for every cast? I can trace our failure point on our last run to when I was at 70% health as he casted it and I was done. If there's nothing else to it and carefully cycling cooldowns is the answer, that's fine but jesus it seemed like it was hitting for 4-5 million.

- Destructor Tentacles on Helya popping up and one-shotting people instantly. I think we've figured this out now because nobody died on our last two runs. I had everyone stay near the front or sides of the boat and that seemed to help. But if there's some tricky way to avoid this I wanna know.

First up, there is nothing special on Dark Slash, you need to use cooldowns/be topped when it hits. Healer needs to be on point in spam healing you at that point since nobody else should be taking damage. Also most healers have some sort of defensive cooldown to use on tank as well (possibly locked behind a talent) so figure out the order you use them. I dunno how many cooldowns DK has but there shouldn't be an absurd amount of slashes if DPS is on point.

And yeah, on tentacles it's up to the other people not to stand near the potential spawn points when it happens if you are on Tyrannical.

Is Dark Slash doing that much damage even with an active mitigation use?

On Tyrannical +15? Sure.
 

Ark

Member
Quick question, does anyone know if it's actually necessary to complete all of the zone arcs in the Broken Isles? I'm going to start levelling my Warlock tonight, but I usually get to 110 with an entire zone left over, even when I skip bonus objectives and side quests. I'm going to be doing all the artifact/illidan/suramar lines with this char, but I can't remember if I need all of the pillars of creation or not.
 

Mupod

Member
Is Dark Slash doing that much damage even with an active mitigation use?

I wasn't exactly counting the numbers but that's just eyeballing it, I mean I'd lose half my hp with vampiric blood up and that puts me in the 8-9 million range. Not actually that big a deal since I can recover a big chunk of it with death strike, but no other dungeon boss hits like that except maybe Smashspite.

I did notice that it's magic damage and started using AMS for it as well, with Blood Mirror included I can generally have at least one thing up for each slash and that's what I do. It's not like we were wiping on him over and over, I only died that one time. I could also spec into Rune Tap to trivialize it but that would be of limited use for the rest of the dungeon (nothing hits hard except tentacles and we kill those fast).
 
I wasn't exactly counting the numbers but that's just eyeballing it, I mean I'd lose half my hp with vampiric blood up and that puts me in the 8-9 million range. Not actually that big a deal since I can recover a big chunk of it with death strike, but no other dungeon boss hits like that except maybe Smashspite.

I did notice that it's magic damage and started using AMS for it as well, with Blood Mirror included I can generally have at least one thing up for each slash and that's what I do. It's not like we were wiping on him over and over, I only died that one time. I could also spec into Rune Tap to trivialize it but that would be of limited use for the rest of the dungeon (nothing hits hard except tentacles and we kill those fast).
Fast check says Dark Slash does 1330000 to 1400000 Shadow damage (so armor doesn't help) on normal Myhic. +15 is something like 150% bonus damage plus tyrannical that can be up to 20% on top of that. So it should easily be up to those 4-5 million numbers.
 

Granadier

Is currently on Stage 1: Denial regarding the service game future
Balancing classes around their tier bonuses is almost as dumb as basing Outlaw's potential off six dice.
 

Mupod

Member
I hadn't really considered the Frost DK set bonuses as super exciting but now that I'm looking into the Breath of Sindragosa build, that 4 piece sounds bonkers. I did some testing with the 2-piece combined with the legendary belt and Seal of Necrofantasia I got last night and I can see myself doing some fun stuff with this build. I was able to sustain breath for something like 80 seconds by using everything I had on the dummy, I'd imagine with Bloodlust you'd be able to do it for the whole 2 minutes. Although in practice from what I understand you would not actually use hungering rune weapon twice during one breath, and you'd instead save it for when cooldowns are lining up and when you can safely DPS without having to move around.

The pessimist in me is looking back at how Blizzard nerfed DPS legendaries for other classes but ignored Frost DK, so I want to play with this stuff before Blizzard's Fun Detector is triggered and they take action.

Anyways, I got caught up on this thread and that loot council issue sounds pretty messed up. My guild uses loot council but I haven't seen any horror stories or ragequits. Maybe it's because this guild is mostly tight knit with a lot of very long-time players but people don't get too bent out of shape over loot. My mythic+ squad for the most part had a huge gear advantage over others in the guild so we take far fewer upgrades than others, and I can't say it doesn't get annoying when you get passed up for something like a relic you badly need. But in the long run it works out. Since Blizzard forgot Mythic+ exists, and you obviously can't get set pieces in there, we won't have that big advantage in Nighthold so we'll be at the mercy of the loot council for a bit. I expect us to come out okay since we all have good attendance and do well on logs/meters.

Our loot mods weren't working right so for our first run in Nighthold we just did random rolls for tier stuff. I got 2 pieces through sheer luck so I'm hoping they start funneling tier stuff to the guild's top DPS out of purely selfish reasons. Thankfully I don't have to share with that Tubie guy.
 
You people have to understand that having full 4-piece set bonuses (especially out of what are now 6-piece sets) drop from the infinitely repeatable Mythic+ would be absurdly broken, right?

As Yanger mentioned, even somewhat serious raiders have to participate in a god damn lot of Mythic+ to be competitive. Whether that be AP farming, or praying for good to BiS titanforged trinkets/gear/relics.

I don't really see a problem with 4-piece tier sets belonging to the exclusive realm of raiding. Mythic+ is already much more successful than CMs ever were already. I know some people were super stoked about 5-mans as an alternate progression path, but having the same powerful tier sets drop from 5-man content with no lockouts would be fucking dumb.

Mythic+ is more akin to PvP than raiding really, but is a less fleshed out system. There's no vanity rewards (beyond doing a +15 once and getting the achieve/artifact appearance). PvP gear doesn't get set bonuses this time around either. Should there be more (perhaps having more dungeon-specific gear sets, etc.)? Maybe. But the highest-end PvE rewards should still come from raiding, which requires on average more preparation, greater costs, more coordination, etc.

Related: LFR's existence and what it means as a design constraint is a whole other issue. Had the group finder existed as it does now back in Cata or before, I don't think LFR would have been necessary. But at this point you can't just excise it from the game either.
 

Mupod

Member
You people have to understand that having full 4-piece set bonuses (especially out of what are now 6-piece sets) drop from the infinitely repeatable Mythic+ would be absurdly broken, right?

As Yanger mentioned, even somewhat serious raiders have to participate in a god damn lot of Mythic+ to be competitive. Whether that be AP farming, or praying for good to BiS titanforged trinkets/gear/relics.

I don't really see a problem with 4-piece tier sets belonging to the exclusive realm of raiding. Mythic+ is already much more successful than CMs ever were already. I know some people were super stoked about 5-mans as an alternate progression path, but having the same powerful tier sets drop from 5-man content with no lockouts would be fucking dumb.

Mythic+ is more akin to PvP than raiding really, but is a less fleshed out system. There's no vanity rewards (beyond doing a +15 once and getting the achieve/artifact appearance). PvP gear doesn't get set bonuses this time around either. Should there be more (perhaps having more dungeon-specific gear sets, etc.)? Maybe. But the highest-end PvE rewards should still come from raiding, which requires on average more preparation, greater costs, more coordination, etc.

Related: LFR's existence and what it means as a design constraint is a whole other issue. Had the group finder existed as it does now back in Cata or before, I don't think LFR would have been necessary. But at this point you can't just excise it from the game either.

well, I didn't say that tier should infinitely drop in mythic+, all I did was state that I can't get it in there. In EN, mythic+ gear was very valuable because it could have better stats and the item level was close (with one 885 a week). However, I won't replace tier stuff with mythic+ gear any time soon if ever. Which is why I will be more reliant on my guild's loot council to give me stuff than before, instead of my 5 man team being mostly self sufficient.

The problem right now is how much I have to bust my ass in mythic+ for now-useless 870 loot and one 885 a week. I'm hoping they will bump it up slightly next week but 875 gear for a +14 isn't going to be very attractive. The difficulty spike past +10-12 is real and mechanics start getting fucked up and crazy. Like I mentioned earlier, 5 man bosses hitting for 5 million damage and tentacles 1 shotting people before their model has loaded in. They needed to balance affixes that are way out of line like Necrotic months ago but they haven't said a word about them.

I like mythic+ as a challenging 5 man activity that supplements raiding but they've barely done anything to improve it since launch. Some of it feels like vanilla diablo 3 inferno levels of hilariously busted.
 
How long/difficult is it to level inscription? The only reason I'm wanting to is because there are some staves from Mists of Pandaria I'd like to get and inscription is the only way.
 
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