Lanrutcon
Member
That's what the pugs will ask for. My 852 is barely cutting it for +2s.
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World of Warcraft |OT9| People still play this? Isn't it from 2004
- Thread starter ampere
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That's what the pugs will ask for. My 852 is barely cutting it for +2s.
Seems more of a "If we buffed a spec to be better than the current best choice, people will be upset."
what's an arcane
CarbonatedFalcon
Member
TBH I feel like that's a bit too soon for 7.1. Doubt we'll be more than 5/7 M by that time at a rate of 1-2 new bosses a week. Would feel better to me with another week or two more tacked onto that.
Not that my guild is extreme bleeding edge.
But I guess that Cutting Edge for EN won't go away until Nighthold at least.
Not that my guild is extreme bleeding edge.
But I guess that Cutting Edge for EN won't go away until Nighthold at least.
I mean, isn't the 7.1 content more aimed at the people progressing Heroic? Or did I misread what Trials (which does actually release a week after 7.1) is dropping.
Just don't seem to see the whole "they're intentionally fucking specs!" angle people seem to be taking with it.
I don't think it's too soon. Rather I think it's just soon enough which is shocking coming from Blizzard. Could definitely use a break from nonstop mythic+ spam.
Anyways, last I checked Unholy was considered rock bottom on the sims that people cling to for dear life. Still doing more than fine in the real world. But hey if the narrative works in my favor and I get buffed then please continue.
Anyways, last I checked Unholy was considered rock bottom on the sims that people cling to for dear life. Still doing more than fine in the real world. But hey if the narrative works in my favor and I get buffed then please continue.
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
Love the giant FU to miners and skinners.
ALso, this...
Is also one of the most vague, dumb responses to the 'bad luck protection' (of which we have zero knowledge on how it actually works) that I've seen yet.
At least with a grind vendor, you'd be able to pick a ''good' legendary, instead of the shitty every-class-can-get ones that give such little benefit, especially for classes where secondary stats outweigh primary stat differences.
Instead it's literally either 'get lucky or get shafted', with the 'get shafted' negative emotion just getting more and more prevalent/frustrating over time.
7.2 Account-wide Artifact knowledge confirmed.
(Or at the very least, let us grind out order resources and instantly get 'caught up' on alts, rather than having the timer inch shorter).
But hey, at least they recognize that getting 13 gold off a bonus roll feels like shit.
People are looking at logs, not sims.
At first I thought it might be too soon, but then I realized that it actually ends up pretty perfect for my group. With most of us sitting around 860 ilvl, but with plenty of pieces 845 and below, this will probably come out early enough for it to still be worth doing and a moderate challenge before we get too geared from Mythic+, and will be a nice boost to push farther in Mythic+. Not a raider so I don't care much about Trials of Valor, but I don't think that would really affect much anyway being 3 bosses. I'm quite pleased with this news.
Also quite pleased at the prospect of some of the 7.1 additions making things infinitely more affordable, like consumables. Please blizz keep that super cheap combat potion as it is...
Also quite pleased at the prospect of some of the 7.1 additions making things infinitely more affordable, like consumables. Please blizz keep that super cheap combat potion as it is...
Feel like the generic Legendaries should exist outside of the whole resetting the pity timer; let them take advantage of it but only reset on a "real" drop. I don't think any class really aims for a non-spec Legendary anyway so just treat them as a super rare major Titanforged piece on the back end rather than "That's your Legendary!" type of drop.
Which potion do you mean? Because the Ancient War is anything but cheap.
I think they may have finally realized that pushing buggy or poorly balanced content faster keeps people quieter, because people will complain about bugs and balance anyway no matter what. So even if the complaints are more valid, new content keeps people distracted.
Well, that's a side effect. Mostly, I'm reeling from the blatant favoritism. They are literally saying they can't buff frost too much because that would make fire players unhappy. Who does that? Who in their right mind would even ADMIT to thinking like that? It's as if Capcom came out and said "yeah Ryu needs to be top tier so Daigo's happpy" or Icefrog went "I can't nerf Pudge because then all the Dendi fans will be upset".
At least most devs have the courtesy of hiding it but we're nearing the point where there's a, literally and officially, "preferred spec" and the others are just "deal with it".
It's insulting that they would cite, as a reason for their reluctance, the pressure on Fire players to reroll Frost. As if Frost and Arcane players haven't been under pressure to reroll Fire since the start of the expansion. As if this isn't something I have to deal with every time I play Frost. This was the biggest slap in the face, really. That apparently, because I believed in their ability to balance the game, my own feelings matter less than those of Fire players who, in all likelihood, trusted sims and word of mouth more than they trust Blizzard to do their job.
Honestly maybe I'm just spoiled by Dota. I forgot it was like this for other games.
Well no, I was more commenting it was less "Fire favoritism" and more "The Mage example would be if we buffed Frost, Fire mages would be upset." Maybe I'm lacking the full context of the quote (missed a good chunk of the Q&A) but I don't see it as a "We want Fire to be best" instead of "We don't want the top spec to feel put off due to others being buffed."
But as a "Can't buff X because Y should be better" thing then no, yeah, I agree that's awfully shitty.
No changes announced, did you hear there were?
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I think it's a combination of feeling, and the fact that you have players who have been gearing for Fire(For example), and if they made Frost the lead, suddenly they're back on square 1 in terms of gear and their artifact weapon. Especially this expansion since secondary stats(Crit, Haste, Mastery) are much more important than in previous examples, especially for Fire heavily leaning towards crit due to their mechanics
I think you're looking at things the wrong way. The conversation was never "we don't want to nerf fire because fire mages would feel bad" because fire was the favorite spec, it was always, "we don't want a mage who was willing to pick any spec feel fucked over by changes later on". The main idea was that if someone picked the strongest spec, whether that be fire frost or arcane at the start, and invested all of their AP into that spec, got legendaries for that spec, and geared the stats for that spec, that it would feel shitty if later on balance changes ended up making a bigger difference than intended and that spec was not worth playing anymore. Now the player has to start all over with a new artifact, no legendaries etc. People who chose one of the three specs because they liked it best knew what they were getting into, they knew at the start the spec was weaker and picked it anyway. But why should the other guy get punished for doing everything right?
I don't think this is a BAD mindset per se, and I agree they should use a light touch when balancing multiple DPS specs for one class, for exactly this reason. I don't really see how DPS classes can ever really have all their specs balanced, I thought it was better when specs had distinct niches because you could actually balance that. But I think the current idea of "don't make someone's entire progression over months worthless because of overzealous buffs" and using a light touch is the lesser of two evils.
Why would they? They're not even the top of the bunch.
ChrisMahoney
Banned
BreezyLimbo
Banned
One could say that Fire Mages are
balanced
Lanrutcon
Member
2nd best ranged spec in the game currently.
And when the initial nerfs came down, they were the only top spec that didn't get a single nerf.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I mean, one of the ranged classes is going to have to be on top. It's more like Warlocks(Their main competitors) are just a big fat mess in rotation and well, class fantasy.
When you normalize across all bosses. Looking individually, the only ones they truly excel at are Xavius (and I have a feeling that it's because of Ignite in the last phase, which is just padding) and the Dragons.
Might be because they felt they didn't need one.
Except this is EXACTLY what they did to Outlaw, and they said this exact same before doing so
Lanrutcon
Member
Right. And that's the problem.
They have talked about this ahead of time. It was never the intention to disrupt where specs stacked up against one another because there is an expectation that people investing artifact power long term should not expect to have the rug pulled out from underneath them. This is also a major factor in regards to how people are gearing, where if one spec suddenly swapped places with the other people would be unprepared to play it.
Is Frost really that bad? I dunno. What he is saying is that Blizzard does not think they have a lot of room to buff the spec right now. At the very least it has its uses, unlike other forgotten specs that are abysmal in both PvE and PvP. Mage is in a really good spot with a lot of versatility. If you expect to play a single spec the entire expansion...I dunno what to tell you. It did not work that way in WoD and at the very least every single Mage spec had a time to shine over the duration of WoD. You have options. Do what you want with them.
Not really. They just need to bring up the less performing once to that level. (and rework warlocks, srsly)
Lanrutcon
Member
Either bring em in line, or move the line. Sure.
Nope, just expecting them.
I don't see, between this and v1perz53's comment, how Frost being the best makes Fire worthless. The ideal is that everyone is within a similar power range to each other, no? Or will people truly be upset that their spec is not clearly the winner among specs in their classes? Because this is a very petty and selfish perspective and I cannot condone any personal defense of it, much less Blizzard's tacit approval. When I say "best" I'm thinking of a 2-5% differential, not the current 19+% differential between Frost and Fire.
In this specific case, every Frost mage's DPS would actually increase if it suddenly became Fire, because they fucked up just that much with our secondaries. We gear exclusively for Crit/Haste. Any Versatility or Mastery left on our gear would actually give us more damage under Fire. This problem doesn't look like it's changing soon because, hey, they don't want to pull the rug from under Frost mages who went through great pains to gear for Crit/Haste, right? In fact, let's not change anything at all so everyone's rugs can stay where they are.
I think they have plenty of room and all their reluctance is completely arbitrary and manufactured. There is literally nothing stopping them from bringing Frost up to within 5% of Fire other than their own unwillingness to recognize Frost's problems. They are even similar specs. Fire revolves around Hot Streak procs to throw Pyros. Frost revolves around FoF procs to throw Ice Lances. Frost has a few more other buttons to press but I can confidently say doubling Water Elemental's Water Jet is probably not a major part of our DPS problems. Yet it's one of two buffs on the PTR. In word as well as in deed Blizzard refuses to address Frost.
They expect us to, as you elucidated here:
I play Vengeance and Frost and I'm leveling a Hunter in my off time but this expansion is very alt-unfriendly. You can't defend them by saying "we have options" when you also say they were forthright from the very start, which I admit they were, that "options" would be prohibitively expensive. Both their extant balance work and public words would indicate that, yes, it's better to stick with what you have because they don't actually want the game to go through huge swings again.
Taken altogether, I feel content going on crusading for Frost. After all, if they don't want to disturb Fire players with other "options" like Frost, surely, surely they couldn't expect the same of Frost players.
I think it's more trying to avoid buffing the class to being the best, attracting a large influx of players to it away from the old top spec, and that creating a reverse of the current situation. Ideally, yeah, it'd be buffed to parity and then both specs just coexist around the same performance level and have around the same amount of players and that's the end of it. But the reality is if it's brought to still below then "nothing changes" because many people still prefer what's best and if it's any amount better than it promotes people switching to min/max.
Or put another way, it seems to be an attempt to avoid the flavor of the month evacuation that creates a new discrepency in their performances despite not actually changing the old flavor of the month spec. "We buffed Frost to Fire numbers and now Fire is down 10%?"
Removing the specific specs from it, I just took it more as a blanket "We need to be careful when bringing underperforming specs up to not create a forced swap situation while also respecting how much of a buff is needed to help encourage people to switch."
Teletraan1
Banned
I make about the same from my miner gathering as I do on my herbalist randomly doing world quests. Felslate sells for just as much if not more than Foxflower on my AH. Starlight Rose sells for a lot but is harder to gather. I can have a stack of Felslate that sells for stupid prices by the time I get a 1/4 as many Starlight Rose. Skinning is just a race to the bottom since the supply way overstrips the demand and this happens every expansion. Stormscale has a slight amount of worth on my AH but it is falling fast. That other shit leather is practically free on my AH. I personally don't understand the complaints outside of skinning just being shit. You get too much of it and there is not enough need for it. Turn flasks into wineskins or something and have it consume leather and it might hold its value.
http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=229218/potion-of-prolonged-power
I'm not expecting it to fully go live as is, but a 1 min duration 2500 main stat combat potion where you get 5 per 1 blood of sargeras will help a lot. Might not be as much DPS as Ancient War, but it will be WAY cheaper and will at least be something people can use to get more DPS without spending 400g per ancient war. Assuming it shares a CD with ancient war, but that seems like a given.
Also, the herb vendor in 7.1 will help lower the cost of Ancient War somewhat as well, since herbs will be generally more available.
It's pretty crazy that Ian admitted that they should've listened to the Warrior community back in beta. I don't know who they have working on Warriors but it seems like that person's vision for the class is not one that is reflective of what Warriors want.
[edit]
This idea that Fury should be a glass cannon or that Arms is the slow and methodical spec by making it the highest APM spec in the game, is fucking dumb. They added more one of abilities that Warriors want back ever since they got removed in WoD, made them all completely useless and added an ability that made you ignore Slam.
Shit doesn't make any sense.
[edit]
This idea that Fury should be a glass cannon or that Arms is the slow and methodical spec by making it the highest APM spec in the game, is fucking dumb. They added more one of abilities that Warriors want back ever since they got removed in WoD, made them all completely useless and added an ability that made you ignore Slam.
Shit doesn't make any sense.
I'm sure Blizzard's ultimate goal is to lessen the disparity between DPS specs. Right now the range is unacceptable, and Blizzard seems aware of that too. At the same time...I think it is easy to see why Frost would track behind other specs when it comes to damage because they have such strong CC built into the kit. I do not have enough perspective on Mage to offer some kind of definitive opinion, but I don't consider Frost to be a spec that's dead in the water. When I say you have choice, I mean you have three DPS specs at your disposal. Pick two to play, at least one will probably be useful for fights. In WoD it is a basic expectation that a DPS player knew how to play more than one spec for their class and was ready/willing to. Legion is not exactly the same, but I don't think it's the end of the world for Frost to be an underwhelming PvE spec and a phenomenal PvP spec when mages can easily switch to Fire or Arcane.
Focused Rage Arms still uses Slam. Even outside of when it's better to use to push through the low 20% range, or during Battlecry. Now it's coming out that FR builds can or should be using Slam all the time and it's FR being used to prevent rage capping.
I haven't seen anything yet about it though I've not looked too hard.
Though I do remember something being datamined around when the PTR started that seemed to indicate at the very least a follower mission, and 850 one. Bear in mind, this was way at the start and may've been changed or something.
edit: According to the Q&A at least it should be account wide, so that's good.
I liked that guy until he started bringing up politics into his stream over and over. Can't take a guy seriously when he says people should stop getting triggered over people being racist.
Yea he had some funny wow videos but he's an idiot
Orochinagis
Member
Meanwhile arcane is still struggling to get 3 stacks in a row without wasting mana like crazy