Support NeoGAF

[VGChampion]

It's a bit disappointing that with all these expansions coming out the game is still not available on the best platform for MMO's.

A shame because there are some interesting features being added by this expansions if the rumors are true.

What's the best platform? I always assumed the Mac was Blizz's choice with all the extra features. I don't have a PC anymore so I'm not sure if they were ever patched in but what do you want it on? Linux? Consoles?

 

[maniac-kun]

consoles cant handle wow
it takes a modern pc with 2+ gb ram to run wrath of the lichking and the next exp will be even worse

 

[Tritroid]

Here's more of the conversation from the Highborne that maniac posted, involving the actual quest:

Daros Moonlance says: A moment of your time.
Change is coming. It has drawn us out of the ruins of Eldre’Thalas and into the wide world once more. I have come to research this city and cannot stray from it, but if you are inclined, I have an errand for you.
My collegue set out for Darnassus to speak with the High Priestess there, that we might come to an understanding. Take this journal to Mordent Evenshade in the temple. It may help in his diplomacy mission.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I suppose I should not be surprised at this cold reception. We have long been in hiding, and the separation from our brethren was necessary.
That time, however, is done. Whether the residents of this young tree come to accept us or not, the Highborne are returning to light, and we wil not turn our backs on what we are.
It seems I have time to talk. What is this regarding?
Daron’s Journal
Ah, the writings of Daros. He always was meticulous about tracking progress. His words may aid in explaining how far we’ve come.
You have my thanks for bringing this to me. Perhaps we will see more of each other once it is understood we mean no harm.
Sentinel, I would speak with your High Priestess.
Sentinel Stillbough says: You must wait for an audience.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Must I? I doubt Tyrande has more pressing business.
Sentinel Stillbough says: You show some nerve coming to Teldrassil, Highborne. Your kind are unwelcome here. We have not forgotten the War of the Ancients or the minds behind it.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: The lure of power is great. Mistakes were made.
Sentinel Stillbough says: And we would not see those mistakes repeated. Return to your exile.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I will not return until I am heard. There is too much at stake. There is a change on the wind, and we cannot ignore it. I have traveled from the dust and ruin of the past to come to an accord. The time may soon come when the kal’dorei require the knowledge and skill we have to offer. I will wait, Sentinel ... but I will have my audience.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade looks over at the moonwell with a sigh.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Calm yourself, Sentinel. I do not seek to use it. I am merely... remembering.
Sentinel Stillbough says: Recalling your treachery?
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: Enough. I have been apart from this for centuries. The well within this temple may be a pale spectre of the Well of Eternity, but it still holds the same... beauty. Purity.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I had forgotten.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: I do not believe admiration and wistful thoughs are against the societal norm.
Sentinel Stillbough says: Watch yourself, Highborne.
Archmage Mordent Evenshade says: You were the one who challenged me for merely looking. I still await my audience with Tyrande.
Sentinel Stillbough says: In good time.

I'm glad to see that the additional race+class combinations aren't simply being thrown into the game, and that they're taking the time to update the lore to explain it. The Tauren becoming Priests and Paladins weren't entirely out of the question, as they're already an honorable race and accepting the ways of the Light goes hand-in-hand with that. But the Night Elves becoming Mages was ridiculous due to their hatred of the Highborne and swearing off every practice involving the use of Arcane. This quest however, explaining the Highborne returning and speaking of 'change' (foreshadowing the Cataclysm), is a good way to go about having the Night Elves potentially accept arcane practices again.

 

[webrunner]

It sounds like this will be there last big Expansion. It's obvious Blizzard has had their B team working on the current game for about a year now, with the A team probably working on the new MMO and this expansion.

Raising the cap by 5 seems to point in the opposite direction: They dont want to hit 100 so soon so they're cutting the amount by half. Otherwise 100 would be the expansion after cataclysm and that's a pretty crazy level cap.

 

[maniac-kun]

maybe they should dropt the levelcap completly with the next mmo theres more ways then just a level how you can advance a character. and they could do more interesting quests and phasing things when theres no level to grind up

 

[Alex]

As long as it's not ridiculous, which nothing really would be considering what we're talking about here, I don't see the problem with any race becoming any class.

You can hop on the lore all you want in several areas but I don't think it's such a radical departure to assume thinking of an individual level rather than one unfaltering group mentality. For all of the splinter tribes, defections, etc the races of WoW partake in it's especially not weird.

It's appreciated but I personally think they're giving too much to try to explain why a few individuals within a race might have a different line of thinking.

When me and my friend played, he really, really wanted a Draenei Rogue. It's really sad that he couldn't make one and it's still not even on that list yet, I really hope it's added. If I ever went back, I'd want to do Gnome Priest and Draenei Rogue. That'd be fun.

And yeah, I'd really love to see some more alternate methods of progression, but I know that wont ever happen though.

If I ever go back, which wouldn't be until Cataclysm anyway, I'm not touching full scale raids with a 10 foot pole. The combination of having to schedule around a video game in conjunction with the fact that I hated nearly everyone in my last guild (and I've hated nearly everyone in every 40/25 man guild I've been in) really seals the deal.


I do miss the fact that WoW certainly saved me money though, fuck I've bought like six games since I quit.

 

[tadcalabash]

You have no idea how excited I am to use flying mounts in Azeroth

Definitely looking forward to this... I've spent so much time wandering around Azeroth on foot it'll be a pleasure to see it from above. Though I wonder how much smaller it'll actually feel from up high.

Also, any thoughts or word on them expanding the maximum number of character slots per realm with this expansion? It wasn't really an issue with Burning Crusade, but I remember in WotLK everyone kept saying how they had to keep their 10th and last spot open for Death Knights.

And now they're adding two new races... both my horde and alliance servers are full up already. I'd be real dissapointed if they said "sorry start over fresh somewhere else, or give us some money to transfer"

 

[Blackface]

Flying around Azeroth will be great, but if what they said is true, you won't be flying around the Azeroth you once knew. It will be completely changed. Probably new kingdoms, old towns destroyed. It will be very different from what you once knew.

Which actually has me very excited.

 

[Willectro]

Also, any thoughts or word on them expanding the maximum number of character slots per realm with this expansion? It wasn't really an issue with Burning Crusade, but I remember in WotLK everyone kept saying how they had to keep their 10th and last spot open for Death Knights.

And now they're adding two new races... both my horde and alliance servers are full up already. I'd be real dissapointed if they said "sorry start over fresh somewhere else, or give us some money to transfer"

Isn't 10 spots enough? Alt-a-holic :lol

 

[zugzug]

Or better yet, up the characters allowed by account from 50 to something higher to Securing all those names for characters Ive never played is hard work. Let alone those 4-5 other characters on that same server I'm playing on which I've never played or haven't levelled up past level 16ish

 

[Twig]

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is that you never feel as if you're accomplishing anything. By providing phased content you can provide an MMO feel while still allowing accomplishments to change the world. Look at the Battle of Undercity for instance, you can do it with more people, it's just a regular zone, but it's only that zone for people on that part of the quest line.

But in the end you DON'T accomplish anything. The Undercity remains the same as always, minus one NPC.

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

 

[Stink]

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

I think if you start another character you're going a good way to breaking the illusion for yourself anyway. Hardly a fair criticism of phasing.

 

[water_wendi]

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

Next-gen MMOs need to have a procreation feature so new characters have to be birthed into the world. "LF high level First Aid.. Contractions starting.. PST"

 

[Einbroch]

My cynical side says that this is lazy. Redoing old zones? Redesigning old dungeons? Laaaaaazy.

My optimistic side says that this is going to be amazing. Imagining old locations completely demolished gets me giddy.

 

[dimb]

Does anyone really expect Blizzard to do anything other than phone in another WoW expansion?

Especially with most of the A-team that worked on it having moved on. I have a difficult time believing changes this radical to a game Blizzard is so unwilling to change.

 

[EDarkness]

But in the end you DON'T accomplish anything. The Undercity remains the same as always, minus one NPC.

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

I don't understand this. If you start a new character, that character is part of a different story. It's the same in pen and paper D&D. It's the DM who generally determines what kind of scenario a group is run through and if you run a module again with a different character, then the world is "unchanged" for that character.

Personally, I think the phasing technology is one of the best things they've added to the game. Now they can make world changing events happen. Granted, they haven't fully explored this (when they can do in-game cut scenes, I'll be happier), but what they have done is a step in the right direction.

 

[VGChampion]

]Does anyone really expect Blizzard to do anything other than phone in another WoW expansion?
[/B]
Especially with most of the A-team that worked on it having moved on. I have a difficult time believing changes this radical to a game Blizzard is so unwilling to change.

What? I would much rather play Burning Crusade and Lich King then go through 1-60. Blizzard isn't phoning in with their expansions.

 

[Lostconfused]

What? I would much rather play Burning Crusade and Lich King then go through 1-60. Blizzard isn't phoning in with their expansions.

Id rather be playing Lich King than burning crusade. No seriously the game gets better with every expansion, i have no idea what they are talking about.

The only real problem is the learning curve. It gets kind of difficult to get into the end game as time goes on.

 

[J-Rzez]

It sounds like this will be there last big Expansion. It's obvious Blizzard has had their B team working on the current game for about a year now, with the A team probably working on the new MMO and this expansion.

"B-team" is very generous thinking. I'm thinking more their D-team, due to their talents working on SC2, D3, and the next gen MMO. My expectations for this next expansion is at an all time low though. Between the sheer amount of recycled gear/effects, and empty promises (see: Dance Studio), I have reason to think that way.

This next one won't be the last expansion either. Especially not if Activision has anything to say about it. I wouldn't doubt to see them nickle and dime their loyal fanbase for up to four more expansions, that's including the upcoming one, so the game concludes at level 100. By that time though, they'll have their new MMO in the wings ready to launch.

 

[Spire]

It's a bit disappointing that with all these expansions coming out the game is still not available on the best platform for MMO's.

:lol

 

[Freyjadour]

The only real problem is the learning curve. It gets kind of difficult to get into the end game as time goes on.

What? It's become nothing but easier to get into end game. End game is almost a joke these days. If you mean classes becoming more difficult to master, it's not really Blizzard's fault so much as players have had a very long time to understand the ins and outs of every finite detail. Of course, an hour on your class forum on EJ should make just about anyone rather competent.

 

[EDarkness]

"B-team" is very generous thinking. I'm thinking more their D-team, due to their talents working on SC2, D3, and the next gen MMO. My expectations for this next expansion is at an all time low though. Between the sheer amount of recycled gear/effects, and empty promises (see: Dance Studio), I have reason to think that way.

This next one won't be the last expansion either. Especially not if Activision has anything to say about it. I wouldn't doubt to see them nickle and dime their loyal fanbase for up to four more expansions, that's including the upcoming one, so the game concludes at level 100. By that time though, they'll have their new MMO in the wings ready to launch.

Heh, you sound like my wife. I don't think "milking" will be coming from Activision, but from Blizz themselves. I'm sure they don't want to see the money stop flowing. This game has been highly successful. Wouldn't you want to keep the dream alive at least until you found another "cash cow"?

Either way, I don't see any problem with the current setup other than their crazy focus on making PvP work. This part is ruining the game for me since I don't PvP, yet all my moves keep getting nerfed to hell. Not only that, but my 2H Frost spec was killed because it was "too hard" to balance.

Everything else seems good. I probably play the game more now than I have ever played. So class niggles aside, I think the has gotten better with age. If the rumors about the new expansion are true, then that seems to be a good reason to get excited. People have been asking Blizz to revisit the original game, and they would be doing so. Don't see any problem with that.

 

[Twig]

I think if you start another character you're going a good way to breaking the illusion for yourself anyway. Hardly a fair criticism of phasing.

How is it not fair?

I'm not necessarily saying WoW's the game to do it (it has far, far too much shit on its back in the form of lore, anyway), but it's entirely possible for a game to exist where starting a character doesn't require starting the story over.

I don't understand this. If you start a new character, that character is part of a different story.

But, it doesn't have to be! In fact, in an MMO, it should not be part of a different story. It should all be the same, persistent story.

And, yes, I realize that what I am saying is not what WoW has ever been. And, yes, I do still enjoy WoW. I'm jus' sayin'. I'd rather it not go even further in the direction of taking out the multiplayer aspect. O:

It's the same in pen and paper D&D. It's the DM who generally determines what kind of scenario a group is run through and if you run a module again with a different character, then the world is "unchanged" for that character.

I very rarely play a D&D campaign in the same "world" (read: storyline) as a previous campaign. But if I do, the DM better damn well take everything that happened before into account. (The exception being different DMs, different groups, in which case, they might as well be different worlds, anyway.)

The analogy doesn't work here, because you'll be running into the same (player) characters no matter which of your characters you're playing as. D&D is and should be a much more controlled environment. There are so few people.

Personally, I think the phasing technology is one of the best things they've added to the game. Now they can make world changing events happen. Granted, they haven't fully explored this (when they can do in-game cut scenes, I'll be happier), but what they have done is a step in the right direction.

I think it's one of the worst! I don't fucking understand the logic behind wanting to make an MMO more like a single-player game.

 

[Belfast]

Dude, J-Rzez, would you get your nuts off the Dance Studio thing?

That's like the least important thing the dev team could actually be working on right now.

 

[Angry Grimace]

maybe they should dropt the levelcap completly with the next mmo theres more ways then just a level how you can advance a character. and they could do more interesting quests and phasing things when theres no level to grind up

The only way to advance in World of Warcraft beyond level is gear. Which means nothing other than more dungeons. I'm sure lots of people would like that, but I'm not sure it's worth paying for. I know a lot of people dont' even think leveling is part of the game, but it is.

 

[Twig]

Next-gen MMOs need to have a procreation feature so new characters have to be birthed into the world. "LF high level First Aid.. Contractions starting.. PST"

This is the best idea I have ever heard in the history of life.

But what are the penalties for fighting while pregnant? Mood swings? Oh shit she's gone berserk!

 

[FLEABttn]

I think it's one of the worst! I don't fucking understand the logic behind wanting to make an MMO more like a single-player game.

Because, ironically, the worst part of MMO's are the people.

 

[Roxas]

fairwell The Barrens . No more picking off noobs, no more "Crossroads are under attack". No more being chased by an infinetly higher lvl all the way to Ratchet trying to outrun them. No more noobs shouting "lfg wc!!"111".

but finally, and most importantly...no more Barrens chat.



awesome

 

[Twig]

Because, ironically, the worst part of MMO's are the people.

Sometimes I forget. ):

 

[bill0527]

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

Uhh.. you've just described about every single game ever made. If you start a new character or beat a game and move up a difficulty level, everything is still the same. Unless you're playing a game like Diablo where you get random dungeons every time you enter. That problem isn't unique to just MMOs.

 

[FLEABttn]

Sometimes I forget. ):

Well, you may not feel that way, from your posts you want more of an EVE type environment, with the "human element" being a large factor in the game, but that's also why I don't like it.

More themeparks, less sandboxes. Remove the human element because when you give someone else direct control of your progression, the less I want to play your game.

 

[Wes]

I hope there's some kind of Tarren Mill v Southshore PvP event/area.

I miss those days. We didn't need an objective. Or something to earn at the end of it. We did it just for the fun of it.

 

[Twig]

Uhh.. you've just described about every single game ever made. If you start a new character or beat a game and move up a difficulty level, everything is still the same. Unless you're playing a game like Diablo where you get random dungeons every time you enter. That problem isn't unique to just MMOs.

Uhh.. way to completely miss the point.

Well, you may not feel that way, from your posts you want more of an EVE type environment, with the "human element" being a large factor in the game, but that's also why I don't like it.

Yes, you're right, EVE does it right. It's almost the ideal MMO.

Problem is it's way too hard to get into for someone with little freetime on their hands. (Read: me.)

More themeparks, less sandboxes. Remove the human element because when you give someone else direct control of your progression, the less I want to play your game.

That's kind of sad.

Why play MMOs at all?

 

[zugzug]

Does anyone really expect Blizzard to do anything other than phone in another WoW expansion?

Especially with most of the A-team that worked on it having moved on. I have a difficult time believing changes this radical to a game Blizzard is so unwilling to change.

You know this does have a point.....after hearing all about world events, that Zombie Northrend event with attacking cities was really really weak for right before Lich King was released.

Seriously talk about lack of impact in later cycles of that event. Frost Wyrms attacking out of the way parts of towns that mean nothing and can be completely avoided. So much QQ'ing about zombie infected by players.

if anytime to completely change what a city looks like it was then with ruin and destruction by an invading force that lays waste to parts or more? Instead of simply fizzling out.

Faith in Blizzard to completely remake old world I do not have much faith at all. B team or D team I agree.

 

[maniac-kun]

suddenly a teaser appeard but not where i expected it:

http://www.soundblaster.com/

takes ages to load be patient

it shows the maelstrom on a map like we know wow right now but the teaser says day 1 so i guess the map will evolve in the next days and we see the cataclysm on it.
or creative trolls us and its just a headset or a soundsystem :lol

 

[FLEABttn]

That's kind of sad.

Why play MMOs at all?

Because nothing else does the "large world with overarching story where I can go run some dungeons with my friends and can expect new content in regular intervals" better.

 

[Ralys]

suddenly a teaser appeard but not where i expected it:

http://www.soundblaster.com/

takes ages to load be patient

it shows the maelstrom on a map like we know wow right now but the teaser says day 1 so i guess the map will evolve in the next days and we see the cataclysm on it.
or creative trolls us and its just a headset or a soundsystem :lol

Uhhh thats the aegis of the horde

EDIT: Im dumb haha

 

[Naka]

Here is an image I just found on mmo-champion that is taken directly from the swf file.

 

[AzureNightmare]

got a bad feeling about creative's teaser. I think its a troll from them, cause that looks like the side of a headset.

 

[markot]

I think its pretty obviously a wow themed headset, speaker, soundcard or what not >.<

 

[Ether_Snake]

I liked playing WoW but I was probably the least hard core play ever. I never did a raid, never got some l33t gear, etc. I liked doing BGs, I think I lost in WSG only 3 times out of I don't know how many dozens and dozens and dozens of matches, and those three times I lost were in my first 8 matches or so.

I miss WoW a bit, but since I was never hard core into it while my buddies were it was sort of pointless, even moreso when they all quit. I'd like to come back, I quit at 70, but again I'm not hard core enough to really enjoy it. There is stuff I'd like to do like raiding but I'll always be a bit noobish at this game, I'm not geeky enough to think deeply about how to play the game, and as a shaman it seems like people expect even more l33tness from me.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

But in the end you DON'T accomplish anything. The Undercity remains the same as always, minus one NPC.

One of the biggest complaints about MMOs in general is lack of permanence. Phasing only makes that problem worse. It gives the illusion of permanence for each individual character, but if you start another character, it's all back to the same ol', same ol'.

Honestly, that's a wrong attitude to have about it. Each character is supposed to be starting off, at 1, either at 2004's WoW or 2007's WoW (or 2008's DK WoW), with them "catching up" as their 'life' continues up thru 80. Hence why as you hit Northrend with alt #1, there ain't a vast swath of vanquished Vrykul/abominations/wild beasts/enemy faction and safely defended keeps and supply lines of your comrades going about their mission as the noose on the Lich King is tightened with Yogg-Saron's defeat allowing focusing the forces' attention.

You don't even have to RP to see the game design soundness in this.

That, and I hope they do this to any new "Eightyficationizing" of any more old raids, so that it isnt more sacrifices to Blizzard's new "throw 'em a bone" method of development pre-4.0.

 

[Kintaro]

Man, I need to get cracking on my Hunter. I miss all the cool shit in WoW. Not this time! :lol

 

[EDarkness]

How is it not fair?

I'm not necessarily saying WoW's the game to do it (it has far, far too much shit on its back in the form of lore, anyway), but it's entirely possible for a game to exist where starting a character doesn't require starting the story over.

But, it doesn't have to be! In fact, in an MMO, it should not be part of a different story. It should all be the same, persistent story.

And, yes, I realize that what I am saying is not what WoW has ever been. And, yes, I do still enjoy WoW. I'm jus' sayin'. I'd rather it not go even further in the direction of taking out the multiplayer aspect. O:

There's no way that can happen. Otherwise you'd have someone hogging all the glory. Those who can play more than everyone else will be taking away the story from who don't. There is just no way a system like that can happen. You being the hero in your own reality is the way it should be. You can move at your own pace (with a group or not) and still get to see everything along the way. MUDs used to do what you're talking about and it just doesn't work.

I very rarely play a D&D campaign in the same "world" (read: storyline) as a previous campaign. But if I do, the DM better damn well take everything that happened before into account. (The exception being different DMs, different groups, in which case, they might as well be different worlds, anyway.)

The analogy doesn't work here, because you'll be running into the same (player) characters no matter which of your characters you're playing as. D&D is and should be a much more controlled environment. There are so few people.

Depends on the group. The same group of friends I play with pretty much restart things in the same world. Everyone understands that some things aren't permanent and we've played through modules (Slave Pits, anyone?) with different characters starting at the original place.

I think it's one of the worst! I don't fucking understand the logic behind wanting to make an MMO more like a single-player game.

I don't agree with this idea that MMOs MUST cater to groups. In real life we can get by without having to deal with people. I don't see why we have to do so in a game world. It's a huge pain. If you want to group, that's fine, but if you don't want to, that's also fine. The real evolution of the MMO in my mind is when you can pick your pace, be the hero of your own story, and not be forced to group in order to enjoy the game. Sometimes people just want a solo game where the world evolves around you. No reason why MMOs can't do that.

 

[iamblades]

This whole A or B team crap is really a bit meaningless when talking about blizzard.

With as many top notch people they've been hiring since the success of wow, they could probably staff a dozen AAA quality teams if they wanted to. Sure some of the big names have switched to working on the next MMO, but they are all idea guys and supervisory designers, not the guys who were doing the actual implementation. Which makes sense. WoW is pretty fleshed out as far as design and infrastructure goes, so the people who built the framework can move on to the next game and let the other guys put all the finishing details on.

The overall quality of the game has been steadily rising with every expansion, so I don't get how people can say that the B team has taken over.

 

[johnsmith]

The overall quality of the game has been steadily rising with every expansion, so I don't get how people can say that the B team has taken over.

Well, the b team designed the Tier 9 sets, that's for sure. The alliance cloth pieces are recolored quest greens.

 

[speedpop]

This whole A or B team crap is really a bit meaningless when talking about blizzard.

With as many top notch people they've been hiring since the success of wow, they could probably staff a dozen AAA quality teams if they wanted to. Sure some of the big names have switched to working on the next MMO, but they are all idea guys and supervisory designers, not the guys who were doing the actual implementation. Which makes sense. WoW is pretty fleshed out as far as design and infrastructure goes, so the people who built the framework can move on to the next game and let the other guys put all the finishing details on.

The overall quality of the game has been steadily rising with every expansion, so I don't get how people can say that the B team has taken over.

I think people just want to shoe-horn a certain team on a certain game and feel better about it. For example, it should be wide knowledge that all three universes of Blizzard's big IPs were essentially written by one man, with certain other notable people involved in the story creation process who are either still employed at Blizzard (Robert Pardo, Sam Didier) or have since left; Ron Millar (WC2), James Phinney (SC), Bill Roper and Eric Sexton (Diablo).

Just because those people have left does not mean that the essence of that game's universe is in trouble. Look at how many people are anticipating Starcraft II and Diablo III - gameplay is the big key of course but without the story involved the games would be pretty meaningless to a lot of players.

Well, the b team designed the Tier 9 sets, that's for sure. The alliance cloth pieces are recolored quest greens.

They did that because they hate you.

 

[AdventureRacing]

I liked playing WoW but I was probably the least hard core play ever. I never did a raid, never got some l33t gear, etc. I liked doing BGs, I think I lost in WSG only 3 times out of I don't know how many dozens and dozens and dozens of matches, and those three times I lost were in my first 8 matches or so.

I miss WoW a bit, but since I was never hard core into it while my buddies were it was sort of pointless, even moreso when they all quit. I'd like to come back, I quit at 70, but again I'm not hard core enough to really enjoy it. There is stuff I'd like to do like raiding but I'll always be a bit noobish at this game, I'm not geeky enough to think deeply about how to play the game, and as a shaman it seems like people expect even more l33tness from me.

This sounds exactly like my experience with the game.

 

[Xabora]

Here is an image I just found on mmo-champion that is taken directly from the swf file.

Well, that furry cat is out of the bag and purring now.

*pets kitty*

 

[iamblades]

There's no way that can happen. Otherwise you'd have someone hogging all the glory. Those who can play more than everyone else will be taking away the story from who don't. There is just no way a system like that can happen. You being the hero in your own reality is the way it should be. You can move at your own pace (with a group or not) and still get to see everything along the way. MUDs used to do what you're talking about and it just doesn't work.

I wouldn't be so sure that it wouldn't work, it doesn't work in the current everquest model of MMOs, where there is a specific path built for levelling and getting gear. In a PvP focused MMO (say eve online) it works because the players make the story, but that is obviously not for everyone. There are other ways this can be done, ie. separating story content from leveling and gearing, which is what most of the big world events usually do. Problem is no MMO has managed to create enough big world events on a regular basis for them to be a viable means of telling a compelling narrative. There is also the possibility that the archaic level based systems common in MMOs can just be tossed out completely, as pretty much all levels are used for these days is to tell you what gear you can wear. Do players really require that arbitrary number tacked to the side of their name to motivate them to play the game? If that is the only thing that gets people to play MMOs, then there is a fundamental problem with the genre that goes much deeper than storytelling. I see no reason why an MMO can't just be fun to play by itself without all the positive reinforcement of levels and loot, with an interesting linear story taking place in a single timeline for all characters. It'd be a hell of a lot of work, as you'd need to create enough new content each month to justify the subscription fee, as you couldn't justify the fee by pointing to all the older content. That's hard as hell even with Blizzard's budget.

On the other hand I could see a system like phasing with more coarse granularity. Basically instead of entering a new phase when you complete quest x or y, it will be when a really big event happens. These events could happen like the public quests in Warhammer, so you don't get that thing where everyone else gets into the new phase but you are left out because you were a step behind in the questline or whatever.

There are a lot of design challenges either way you go, but somewhere out there there is a way for MMOs to tell a coherent story while still being fun.

I don't agree with this idea that MMOs MUST cater to groups. In real life we can get by without having to deal with people. I don't see why we have to do so in a game world. It's a huge pain. If you want to group, that's fine, but if you don't want to, that's also fine. The real evolution of the MMO in my mind is when you can pick your pace, be the hero of your own story, and not be forced to group in order to enjoy the game. Sometimes people just want a solo game where the world evolves around you. No reason why MMOs can't do that.

I agree completely, the best thing about wow is that you don't have to group to get something done all the time.