Wow, killzone was realtime sorta.
- Thread starter dorio
- Start date
Kabuki Waq
Member
i remember at e3 i got so hyped after watching that trailer.
Damn i was tricked pretty well.
Damn i was tricked pretty well.
Teknopathetic
Member
:lol
Doom_Bringer
Banned
Killzone
Running at LESS than 5 FPS on the PS3 alpha kit
It was sped up to 60 FPS in post production.
*A couple of trailers were simply pre rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game.
*the final PS3 dev kits will ship in October
Not a mag scan it's art by the guy who does all the art stuff for Killzone
solarplexus
Member
Aren't scans of magazines like PSM against the TOS and forbidden?
Wow, that looks so killer. Hope the game looks that good.Doom_Bringer said:Killzone
Running at LESS than 5 FPS on the PS3 alpha kit
It was sped up to 60 FPS in post production.
*A couple of trailers were simply pre rendered using textures and other visual elements intended for the final game.
Not a mag scan it's art by the guy who does all the art stuff for Killzone
With optimization and the more powerful RSX and cell plus coding to use spes, I can see the game hitting at least 30fps. I wonder will they have to do 720 though vs. 1080.
Wished they would say how Motorstorm was made. I was more impressed by that than killzone.
ArcadeStickMonk
Member
He's on a flight from Japan right now. I'll fill in for him.Matlock said:
[Dark10x]
At best, we could hope that the PS3 hardware, alpha or no, rendered each of those Killzone 2 frames itself; however the idea that the hardware could generate all those frames in realtime is ludicrous.
Also ludicrous, would be to place enough faith in the developer, Guerilla, that they could pull off gameplay like in that trailer. I have played Killzone and AI was especially lacking. The scenes from the trailer were pure script, even more than Call of Duty scenes. It wasn't gameplay, and I think that kind of gameplay is beyond Guerrilla anyway.
Here's some screens!
Killzone 1
Look at the average draw distance in these four shots.
Weak explosion effect
Finally, no fog.
I always liked the lighting in this shot.
Killzone 2
The disparity between the screen shots is just too great to put any faith in. Not for the game, not for the developer, and not even for the hardware. It's just too soon, and that trailer was too faked.
[/Dark10x]
Simo
Member
solarplexus said:
It's not a scan but artwork from the artist's official website. The stuff that was shown at E3 appears to be for Killzone 3 but SCEE and Guerilla aren't really saying or confirming much. Killzone 2 could either be a late PS2 release or a PSP title as noted in this concept art:
God's Hand
Banned
People with no technical knowledge having a technical discussion... Yep, I'm definitely at GAF. No offense, but leave the tech to the guys working on the game. I'm sure they know what they're doing.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
I don't fucking care if it's ingame stuff or not, after all the fanboy flaming and pr nosense I just don't want to be over here by the time the preview code hits the websites :lol
Agent Icebeezy
Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
Man, I don't know about you guys, but I've learned some new lying tactics from Sony, which will be especially useful during confrontations with the wife.
I sure I haven't heard them all from these threads and other sites on the net, but I've heard enough to surely buy a book containing them upon release date.
Sony: Learn to lie like a pro
I sure I haven't heard them all from these threads and other sites on the net, but I've heard enough to surely buy a book containing them upon release date.
Sony: Learn to lie like a pro
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
Well let me do some crappy math
Assuming SAME EXACT graphical IQ:
60fps = 5 x 12 = 12x = 1200% speed boost needed from 25% upgraded hardware
30fps = 5 x 6 = 6x = 600% speed boost needed from 25% HW upgrade
With current 75% alpha hardware hitting 5fps... (if infact K2 was "realtime") Boost the CPU 25% and boost the 7800....
60fps is DEFINITELY NOT possible with the exact same graphical quality. You could take all the optimizations in the world and you can't make a 1200% speed boost possible. 30fps is more realistic, but somehow I still doubt it'll come out with the exact same image quality as the video....
It'd be an amazing feat if they did, but realistically, it's not gonna happen..
Assuming SAME EXACT graphical IQ:
60fps = 5 x 12 = 12x = 1200% speed boost needed from 25% upgraded hardware
30fps = 5 x 6 = 6x = 600% speed boost needed from 25% HW upgrade
With current 75% alpha hardware hitting 5fps... (if infact K2 was "realtime") Boost the CPU 25% and boost the 7800....
60fps is DEFINITELY NOT possible with the exact same graphical quality. You could take all the optimizations in the world and you can't make a 1200% speed boost possible. 30fps is more realistic, but somehow I still doubt it'll come out with the exact same image quality as the video....
It'd be an amazing feat if they did, but realistically, it's not gonna happen..
midnightguy
Member
ArcadeStickMonk said:He's on a flight from Japan right now. I'll fill in for him.
[Dark10x]
At best, we could hope that the PS3 hardware, alpha or no, rendered each of those Killzone 2 frames itself; however the idea that the hardware could generate all those frames in realtime is ludicrous.
Also ludicrous, would be to place enough faith in the developer, Guerilla, that they could pull off gameplay like in that trailer. I have played Killzone and AI was especially lacking. The scenes from the trailer were pure script, even more than Call of Duty scenes. It wasn't gameplay, and I think that kind of gameplay is beyond Guerrilla anyway.
Here's some screens!
Killzone 1
Look at the average draw distance in these four shots.
Weak explosion effect
Finally, no fog.
I always liked the lighting in this shot.
Killzone 2
The disparity between the screen shots is just too great to put any faith in. Not for the game, not for the developer, and not even for the hardware. It's just too soon, and that trailer was too faked.
[/Dark10x]
ArcadeStickMonk: I agree 100% with your post.
my guess: reduced scene complexity and GREALY reduced image quality @ 30fps seems possible for actual PS3 game / game-play.
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
border said:This whole post assumes that the engine is completely static and won't be improved or optimized as better development tools come along. So that's a lotta typing for nothing
I said crappy math!!
No effort in crappy math!!But I did state about optimizations in that same post you quoted. And I made an assessment about those optimizations as well. Don't be so quick to shut me down....
Tenacious-V said:I said crappy math!!
But I did state about optimizations in that same post you quoted. And I made an assessment about those optimizations as well. Don't be so quick to shut me down....
I agree with Border. There's no real way to assess the potential impact of future optimization on that code yet. We don't know what state it's in now (aside from the fact that it does run, however slowly), or what tricks and shortcuts to optimize performance might be possible on the final hardware that can't be duplicated on the current devkits. Not saying that the actual game's going to look consistently that good throughout, but I'm willing to allow for the possibility of them achieving something close (though more than likely locked at 30 fps, IMO--I suspect they'll trade off framerate for geometry and fx on this one).
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
border said:
In the case of the 1200% increase from 5 to 60 I DEFINITELY dismiss it. I can see the 30fps happening, but no way in hell for 60. Do you honestly believe you can have a 1200% boost in performance (including optimizations) from a 25% increase in hardware speed? I'm not being pessimistic here, I'm being realistic. This is all under the assumption of SAME exact IQ, no degredation of any kind.
Tellaerin said:
That's exactly what I stated above............
depending when its out, the developers may well have just thrown a bunch of high poly CG figures into the engine, not caring if it chokes because it'll be sorted out in editing.
So I'd expect the models to change. Doesn't mean it won't look similar/the same, but as Shog pointed out, some of those models just have too much geometry in them.
I'm quietly confident we'll see something like that from Guerilla.
Might still have shit AI and wobbly framerate....
BTW, how can you judge gameplay from that preview footage? Its clearly scripted to look good over 30 seconds at E3. kind of like the Halo 2 on earth footage. I wouldn't expect me to be playing exactly that, although I would think the 'arrival on flying car' thing could happen - kind of like a oneupmanship thing to Bungie and the Cartographer level in halo 1.
So I'd expect the models to change. Doesn't mean it won't look similar/the same, but as Shog pointed out, some of those models just have too much geometry in them.
I'm quietly confident we'll see something like that from Guerilla.
Might still have shit AI and wobbly framerate....
BTW, how can you judge gameplay from that preview footage? Its clearly scripted to look good over 30 seconds at E3. kind of like the Halo 2 on earth footage. I wouldn't expect me to be playing exactly that, although I would think the 'arrival on flying car' thing could happen - kind of like a oneupmanship thing to Bungie and the Cartographer level in halo 1.
I don't think they'll shoot for 60 because almost no Western development houses care about framerate anymore =(Tenacious-V said:
I believe you can see huge boosts if you write really shitty high-level code just to get the job done quick, and then go back and fix things. We never really get to see such improvements since nobody is dumb enough to show off their game when it's running at 5 FPS (though there was pretty good performance improvement between the leaked Doom 3 Alpha and the final).
Lets assume it is true that they achived 5fps with models extremely detailed without any shading techniques used to make it look more detailed than it necessary is, and they have applied several samples of FSAA, awesome lighting etc... that would mean that the PS3 alpha kit or not is extremely powerful even doing these things 5fps.. not to mention un optimized code most likely... And where did the original author get this info from? It would be interesting to hear more about it..
Tenacious-V
Thinks his PR is better than yours.
border said:
That's true, I think you can make huge strides towards speed if you begin with crappy code. In the Killzone 2 case I believe it was crappy code as well, rushed to make a showdown for X360. In which case I do believe they can get 30fps for it, but what I don't believe is that it'll be to that detail.
In the case from Sony stating they'll get that type of visuals (if you take into context this video, meaning they will get these visuals at 60fps due to this video being at 60) then Sony blatantly lied. They straight up lied to everyone. It would have been more believable if the video was 30fps. There's no way you can have a game look like that, pushing that poly count, and that detail, at 60fps, this generation.... And that goes for X360 as well.
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Again....the PS3 game is Killzone THREE
Killzone 2 is going to be a PS2 game...
Killzone 2 is going to be a PS2 game...
Kleegamefan
K. LEE GAIDEN
Since the PS3 will play Blu-ray movies, the Fast Forward controls will probably pop up on the screen when you press select on the Dual Shock 3