Wow, killzone was realtime sorta.

Cool.. I didnt know a game could be fully developed, optimised etc in 4-5 months.

Damn, 5 fps will really hurt. :)
 
This is a bit sketchy IMO. I don't believe it until it's confirmed by Guerilla. I know Jeux-France gets a lot of news and pics and stuff, but I am not sure how reliable they are. That tiny little blurb didn't seem to offer a great deal of detail on the game and how it was running. I'm skeptical. It would be great if true, b/c it would shut the haters up. But I'm not really holding my breath.

The argument that it's too scripted is kind of silly. Of course it's scripted. It's only a demo. I don't think all of that stuff is gonna happen in such a fluid, well-choreographed manner. But being scripted and realtime is a lot different than being scripted and pre-rendered. PEACE.
 
[Dark10x]

Gek54 said:
What point are you trying to make with putting PS2 screens next to PS3 screens?
Click to expand...
To demonstrate the average scene that the developer created in the first game, in terms of draw distance, scene complexity, and even model positioning, compared to the same qualites found in the trailer shots. Base image quality can be ignored due to difference in the supposed hardware and even capture equipment.

Using static screens as a measure of developer ability, and applying crappy math, the equation goes something like this:

Killzone 1 screens (complexity, draw distance, etc..) = Guerrilla skill level in 2004 = X
Killzone 2 screens(trailer) (complexity, draw distance, etc...) = proposed Guerrilla skill level in 2006, 2007 = Y

Y - X = Z
Where Z = Difference in skill

Now, the larger that variable Z is, and the less time between the measure of X and the proposed Y (about 2-3 years), the more unbelieveable Y is.

Thus, it does not make sense mathmatically to believe that the Killzone 2 trailer is truthful based soley upon the developer and timeframe in question.

This makes about as much sense of trying to put Gran Turismo screens next to GT3 screens.
Click to expand...
Okay!

Gran Turismo 2

gt2_screen136.jpg

gt2_screen108.jpg

gt2_screen053.jpg

gt2_screen084.jpg



Gran Turimso 3

gt3_screen036.jpg

ps2_granturismo2000_screen037.jpg

gt3_screen008.jpg

ps2_granturismo2000_screen014.jpg


[/Dark10x]
 
 
Forsete said:
Cool.. I didnt know a game could be fully developed, optimised etc in 4-5 months.
Click to expand...

Is that when PS3 launches?
And has it been confirmed KZIII is a launch title?
NDAs be damned!
 
SolidSnakex said:
Why did you post pics of GT2000 which basically was an enhanced version of GT2?
Click to expand...
Look, I'm fucking trying! I'm not as good a screen shot hound as the real Dark10x. I'm sorry!
Until his plane lands and his ass sleeps off the jetlag, you're going to have to be content with me.
 
No one really seems to be shouting CG CG CG!!! It's using a graphical engine that they have in the works for playstation 3, possibly using actual art assets made for a proposed killzone 3. What it isn't is rendered on teh fly with a PS3 in the back. No, it's more like say the CG cinemas in a game like psychonaughts, everything is in game but to keep it consistent its been "rendered" post production with a movie like attention to detail. Should anyone expect PS3 graphics to look like this ? Maybe but not until like 2008 , even then I wouldn't expect more then 30 FPS at 720 P.
 
Pachinko said:
No one really seems to be shouting CG CG CG!!! It's using a graphical engine that they have in the works for playstation 3, possibly using actual art assets made for a proposed killzone 3. What it isn't is rendered on teh fly with a PS3 in the back. No, it's more like say the CG cinemas in a game like psychonaughts, everything is in game but to keep it consistent its been "rendered" post production with a movie like attention to detail. Should anyone expect PS3 graphics to look like this ? Maybe but not until like 2008 , even then I wouldn't expect more then 30 FPS at 720 P.
Click to expand...
It is similar to the gf3 demo of Spirits Within. It was running at a couple frames a sec. I wonder how many fps they could have gotten it at after a year of work on it.
 
I don't care what anyone says the killzone video was NOT CG.

Look at all these problems
http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=weaponground25kj.jpg
http://img285.echo.cx/my.php?image=thingleg4be.jpg
http://img162.echo.cx/my.php?image=polyswheel0hm.jpg
http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=...unground3lq.jpg
http://img138.echo.cx/my.php?image=...rendered6gh.jpg

http://img199.echo.cx/my.php?image=...200100018wd.jpg
http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=...200100026of.jpg
http://img186.echo.cx/my.php?image=kill3kn.jpg
http://img127.echo.cx/my.php?image=...200200035si.jpg

All this was pointed out by someone else on another forum though. I just don't believe that trailer was cg.
Click to expand...

If you look at KZ *THREE* frame by frame, you can see a whole bunch of errors (rendering, clipping) that is normally associated with real-time footage and is definately not associated with CG....

KZ3 demo was probably created similarly to Hevenly Sword where frames from the actual game engine is input into an offline renderer and sped up to 60fps....

Although this can't be considered real time, it is a far cry from GC movies which usually aren't intended to represent in game graphics and certainly don't have any of the clipping errors of the KZ3 video...

Besides, KZ3 isn't even the most impressive PS3 demo, IMO.....Motor Storm just shits all over it in my view....
 
ArcadeStickMonk said:
Look, I'm fucking trying! I'm not as good a screen shot hound as the real Dark10x. I'm sorry!
Until his plane lands and his ass sleeps off the jetlag, you're going to have to be content with me.
Click to expand...

Here

GT2:

gt2_screen299.jpg

gt2_screen294.jpg


GT3

granturismo3_screen052.jpg

gt3_0125_screen023.jpg


The leap was huge, and much bigger than some were willing to accept we'd see. Proof of this was the GT2 intro which was expected to be an example of what GT3 on the PS2 would look like and you had a large group of people laughing at the idea that we'd see a jump that big within 1 generation.
 
You can't beat Sony fanboys in full damage control. We'll you can. You just need a big stick.



Still. I'm in no doubt that final PS3 hardware will be able to pull this off at least @ 30fps.
I'm also in no doubt that 360 could do the same.

One things for sure. Next gen is going to be a blast.
 
SolidSnakex said:
Here

GT2:

gt2_screen299.jpg

gt2_screen294.jpg


GT3

granturismo3_screen052.jpg

gt3_0125_screen023.jpg


The leap was huge, and much bigger than some were willing to accept we'd see. Proof of this was the GT2 intro which was expected to be an example of what GT3 on the PS2 would look like and you had a large group of people laughing at the idea that we'd see a jump that big within 1 generation.
Click to expand...
Those shots illustrate to me that certain new graphical techniques are greater than others. Bilinear filtering was a huge step forward. Will higher res texturing, hdr rendering etc. make as big a visual difference? How much better can games look than games like Conker. Alot depends on the genre of games I think.
 
dorio said:
Those shots illustrate to me that certain new graphical techniques are greater than others. Bilinear filtering was a huge step forward. Will higher res texturing, hdr rendering etc. make as big a visual difference? How much better can games look than games like Conker. Alot depends on the genre of games I think.
Click to expand...

I think some are too quick to say what is and isn't possible with a next gen of systems. The next gen hasn't started yet and you've already got people who are compeltely sure that this game isn't possible, or that game isn't possible. We're still seeing current hardware do stuff that people didn't expect to be possible.
 
dorio said:
A cell processor running at 2.4ghz with a sli 6800 or a g70 sounds very powerful to me.
Click to expand...

Alpha is 2.4 GHz Cell with 6800 SLI
The new dev kits shipping right now have 2.4 GHz Cell with an unknown Nvidia graphics card

And these consist of an early version of cell we don't know how many SPE's are activated for em.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I think some are too quick to say what is and isn't possible with a next gen of systems. The next gen hasn't started yet and you've already got people who are compeltely sure that this game isn't possible, or that game isn't possible. We're still seeing current hardware do stuff that people didn't expect to be possible.
Click to expand...
Agreed, but my expectations are conservative only to be pleasantly surprised in the end.
 
Doom_Bringer said:
Alpha is 2.4 GHz Cell with 6800 SLI
The new dev kits shipping right now have 2.4 GHz Cell with an unknown Nvidia graphics card
Click to expand...
Like I said that sounds powerful to me. Current kits are irrelevant though. I was talking about the kits that the killzone demo was likely developed on.
 
Kleegamefan said:
If you look at KZ *THREE* frame by frame, you can see a whole bunch of errors (rendering, clipping) that is normally associated with real-time footage and is definately not associated with CG....
Click to expand...

Not to say the KZ3 footage is faked or anything, but do you seriously think that polygon intersection and visual anomalies NEVER occur in CG? Dood, have you ever used MentalRay!?!?
 
dorio said:
Like I said that sounds powerful to me. Current kits are irrelevant though. I was talking about the kits that the killzone demo was likely developed on.
Click to expand...
Considering its unlike cell is a 7-spe configuration in those kits (very unlikely) and we have no idea how RSX measures up, if you will swallow the claim of X360 running at 33% then PS3 will have a similar performance gain left.

Even though I don't really believe this, whatever happened to 'we won't see this until PS4'? :)
 
Sho Nuff said:
Not to say the KZ3 footage is faked or anything, but do you seriously think that polygon intersection and visual anomalies NEVER occur in CG? Dood, have you ever used MentalRay!?!?
Click to expand...
It's hard to tell one way or the other. It's down to hearsay and unexplained video footage. I mean, there are anomalies. Are they consistent with normal CG? I'm no CG expert. OTOH, you have claims that a studio pre-rendered the whole thing. I'm skeptical of PSM, but meh. I really hope they're right though. That would be too sweet. PEACE..
 
Not to say the KZ3 footage is faked or anything, but do you seriously think that polygon intersection and visual anomalies NEVER occur in CG? Dood, have you ever used MentalRay!?!?
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but I can't even remember the last time I saw those kind of glaring clipping errors in GC....

It is acually pretty bad in areas (whether or not this was done on purpose or not is another thing) and the CG I have seen in XBOX/PS2/GCN games *do not* have this level of errors....

Again, I suspect it actually *is* in-game but running at a very slow frame rate, just like the article states....this is just my take though.....we will probably know more at TGS (2nd week in Sept.)
 
I think perhaps more people were amazed by the scripted nature of the trailer than the actual in-game engine because it certainly doesn't look any better than the other PS3 games shown such as Heavenly Sword or Motor Storm
 
I said it once and I'll say it again. The Killzone PS3 trailer was not realtime nor was it running on any PS3 Alpha kit. That's all nonsense. It's a lie. I don't care what any magazine says, it's a lie. Also, Killzone PS3 won't remotely be a launch game. Don't even count on it. This is not me speculating, because if it was I'll happily debate the pros and cons of how the trailer "looks" realtime or "could" be realtime. It just isn't.
 
Kleegamefan said:
It is acually pretty bad in areas (whether or not this was done on purpose or not is another thing) and the CG I have seen in XBOX/PS2/GCN games *do not* have this level of errors....
Click to expand...

Those games you refer to are finished products. CG is almost the last thing that gets finished in a game project. Unless you think the game is finished and ready to go........
 
duckroll said:
I said it once and I'll say it again. The Killzone PS3 trailer was not realtime nor was it running on any PS3 Alpha kit. That's all nonsense. It's a lie. I don't care what any magazine says, it's a lie. Also, Killzone PS3 won't remotely be a launch game. Don't even count on it. This is not me speculating, because if it was I'll happily debate the pros and cons of how the trailer "looks" realtime or "could" be realtime. It just isn't.
Click to expand...


Sony never said it will be a launch game. And I don't believe you :P No way in HELL can CG have so many problems: pop ups, clipping, no polygon characters, lack of shadows etc. Apparently you know someone who works at Guerrilla or something?
 
Doom_Bringer said:
No way in HELL can CG have so many problems: pop ups, clipping, no polygon characters, lack of shadows etc.
Click to expand...
Oh....it's REALLY easy to have those problems...it's much harder not to have them for crying out loud
 
5 fps eh? LOL. Where is shoggy anyway? What w/ all the perfect curves and all.... HOW COULD IT BE??? ROTFLOL. And where are all those people who knew a company that did the renders? lol. pathetic.
 
duckroll said:
I said it once and I'll say it again. The Killzone PS3 trailer was not realtime nor was it running on any PS3 Alpha kit. That's all nonsense. It's a lie. I don't care what any magazine says, it's a lie. Also, Killzone PS3 won't remotely be a launch game. Don't even count on it. This is not me speculating, because if it was I'll happily debate the pros and cons of how the trailer "looks" realtime or "could" be realtime. It just isn't.
Click to expand...

yawn
 
Someone who claims that the KZ PS3 trailer is real-time calls someone who actually works there a "n00b"? I suppose you also believe in the PS3 Fairy? She brings happiness to all.
 
Tempy said:
Someone who claims that the KZ PS3 trailer is real-time calls someone who actually works there a "n00b"? I suppose you also believe in the PS3 Fairy? She brings happiness to all.
Click to expand...
No...I actually think what he was saying was that he doesn't believe that you work “there”. Around E3 we had more than our fair share of imposters so I can understand his doubt. (keep in mind, this is my first time seeing you post here, as well :b)
 
Wakune said:
No...I actually think what he was saying was that he doesn't believe that you work “there”. Around E3 we had more than our fair share of imposters so I can understand his doubt. (keep in mind, this is my first time seeing you post here, as well :b)
Click to expand...

Shrug, you can look at my post history if you want. I didn't sign up yesterday if that's what you're thinking :P Seriously though, the amount of bullshit from so-called journalistic media and forums annoys me to no end. It doesn't help that SCEE is part of the problem as well.
 
Tempy said:
Someone who claims that the KZ PS3 trailer is real-time calls someone who actually works there a "n00b"? I suppose you also believe in the PS3 Fairy? She brings happiness to all.
Click to expand...
FRISK HIM, MODS.
 
Tempy said:
Shrug, you can look at my post history if you want. I didn't sign up yesterday if that's what you're thinking :P Seriously though, the amount of bullshit from so-called journalistic media and forums annoys me to no end. It doesn't help that SCEE is part of the problem as well.
Click to expand...

Well.. You live in the right country. I'd say that gives you atleast 3 interweb credibility points. It not the first time you've hinted at internal KZ knowledge so you're consistant. That has to be worth atleast another point. That leaves you with 4 credibility points, congratulations!
 
Tempy said:
Someone who claims that the KZ PS3 trailer is real-time calls someone who actually works there a "n00b"? I suppose you also believe in the PS3 Fairy? She brings happiness to all.
Click to expand...

whatever you cliam to be mr cho yan wong.
 
lol this is hillarious. hey tempy, I work at guerrilla as well. Where have you been lately? Aren't you supposed to be crunching code and yet I find you bsing onine! god dammit man, get to work asap!
 
sangreal said:
Well.. You live in the right country. I'd say that gives you atleast 3 interweb credibility points. It not the first time you've hinted at internal KZ knowledge so you're consistant. That has to be worth atleast another point. That leaves you with 4 credibility points, congratulations!
Click to expand...
:lol
 
duckroll said:
I said it once and I'll say it again. The Killzone PS3 trailer was not realtime nor was it running on any PS3 Alpha kit. That's all nonsense. It's a lie. I don't care what any magazine says, it's a lie. Also, Killzone PS3 won't remotely be a launch game. Don't even count on it. This is not me speculating, because if it was I'll happily debate the pros and cons of how the trailer "looks" realtime or "could" be realtime. It just isn't.
Click to expand...

Where are you getting this information?

Are you just been especially vehement? Specifically with regards to the not launch title line, and with regards to what the magazine said (which is not that the PS3 trailer was running real time, but that the graphics and engine shown are part of the engine and graphics they're expecting to use eventually after optimizations, etc.)
 
internet law 45/1 section 2 states.

In VS. cases where people who know something or work on the product/hardware/software/game, you will conceed all debates with fanboys in the initial stages if that fanboy is armed with some sort of PR.
 
If they are able to get this running at full speed (60hz....or even 30 would be acceptable)...I'll be ready to eat the sweetest tasting crow I've ever eaten.

Until then, I'm still thinking it's not gonna look like that.
 
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