Wow, killzone was realtime sorta.

Doube D said:
5 fps eh? LOL. Where is shoggy anyway? What w/ all the perfect curves and all.... HOW COULD IT BE??? ROTFLOL. And where are all those people who knew a company that did the renders? lol. pathetic.
Click to expand...


Man alive, you'd think that reason would take hold at some point...multiple sources have confirmed its CG and yet we still have these debates with the deslusional. Find me a quote directly from Sony stating that "its realtime and done on a PS3 devklit" and then come back here. While you're looking for it, make sure to visit the B3d forums where this has been rasied multiple time and repeatedly confirmed as CG.

If this were real-time, don't you think that Sony would be screaming about it from the rafters??? Why hide the good news???
 
3rdman said:
Man alive, you'd think that reason would take hold at some point...multiple sources have confirmed its CG and yet we still have these debates with the deslusional. Find me a quote directly from Sony stating that "its realtime and done on a PS3 devklit" and then come back here. While you're looking for it, make sure to visit the B3d forums where this has been rasied multiple time and repeatedly confirmed as CG.

If this were real-time, don't you think that Sony would be screaming about it from the rafters??? Why hide the good news???
Click to expand...


because unlike other companies sony knows that its not a good idea to show off crap at a system unveiling
 
ArcadeStickMonk said:
[Dark10x]

To demonstrate the average scene that the developer created in the first game, in terms of draw distance, scene complexity, and even model positioning, compared to the same qualites found in the trailer shots. Base image quality can be ignored due to difference in the supposed hardware and even capture equipment.

Using static screens as a measure of developer ability, and applying crappy math, the equation goes something like this:

Killzone 1 screens (complexity, draw distance, etc..) = Guerrilla skill level in 2004 = X
Killzone 2 screens(trailer) (complexity, draw distance, etc...) = proposed Guerrilla skill level in 2006, 2007 = Y

Y - X = Z
Where Z = Difference in skill

Now, the larger that variable Z is, and the less time between the measure of X and the proposed Y (about 2-3 years), the more unbelieveable Y is.

Thus, it does not make sense mathmatically to believe that the Killzone 2 trailer is truthful based soley upon the developer and timeframe in question.

Okay![/Dark10x]
Click to expand...

Ok this is just about the most moronic comparison I have ever seen. It might make a little more sense if we were comparing games on the same hardware but even so you are trying to quantify developer skill. My mind is blown.
 
3rdman said:
Man alive, you'd think that reason would take hold at some point...multiple sources have confirmed its CG and yet we still have these debates with the deslusional. Find me a quote directly from Sony stating that "its realtime and done on a PS3 devklit" and then come back here. While you're looking for it, make sure to visit the B3d forums where this has been rasied multiple time and repeatedly confirmed as CG.

If this were real-time, don't you think that Sony would be screaming about it from the rafters??? Why hide the good news???
Click to expand...

Well, it's been said by sony that is it actual gameplay. Only problem is that it's been said by developers that it's a visual target, and not at all gameplay.
 
Tenacious-V said:
In the case of the 1200% increase from 5 to 60 I DEFINITELY dismiss it. I can see the 30fps happening, but no way in hell for 60. Do you honestly believe you can have a 1200% boost in performance (including optimizations) from a 25% increase in hardware speed? I'm not being pessimistic here, I'm being realistic. This is all under the assumption of SAME exact IQ, no degredation of any kind.



That's exactly what I stated above............
Click to expand...
It's called spes, if this report is true, they most likely where not used. If such a guess turned out to be right, That 25% boost would in actuality be a 1000+% increase(higher clock pe+spes vs lower clock pe.)

It's amazing what's happened with regards to killzone. It's akin to what happened with mgs2 and the dc'boys.... of course it just had to happen, for where this real(an accurate representation of what we've to expect, whether cg or speed-up in-engine vid), it stands a chance of being a herald of visual disparity between next-gen rivals, akin to that which occured between last gen rivals dc and ps2.
 
5 frame for an early and non-optimised game is possible. I saw many games not running at 10 frames even after being considered "beta version".

Let's hope that it's true this Killzone2. It would own.
 
ArcadeStickMonk said:
Look, I'm fucking trying! I'm not as good a screen shot hound as the real Dark10x. I'm sorry!
Until his plane lands and his ass sleeps off the jetlag, you're going to have to be content with me.
Click to expand...

I CAN READ THE FUTURE!

 
:lol This is the most rediculously hilarious next gen gaming thread of all time. Beats the crap out of the that recent PGR3 thread.

"It ran at almost 5fps! THERE'S A CHANCE IT WILL RUN AT 30FPS!! THAT'S LIKE A REAL GAME!!!" :lol

Never have so many fanboys hung their hopes and dreams on a shady unoffical information. Chances that biased magazine like PSM got the true story from the real source when they don't state who the source was is beyond shady. Chance that a game will see 6X performance from 75% hardware to 100% hardware is beyond shady ("Optimization" is not a magic cure-all"). This thread: beyond hilarious.

If my code and assets on a 75% performance of the final hardware kit ran @ <5fps, it's time to "Optimize" the "game" by hacking down the assets to something more feasable. Bye bye Million PPS character models. Bye bye perfectly curved geometry. Bye bye CG demo made for PR BS.

I have no doubt the final game will feature bunch of soldier duders flying in on hovercrafts and then battling it out with bunch of other soldier duders on a war torn city vistas. There will be plenty of shooting and plenty of blowing up to be sure. Just don't expect it to look like that CG movie, ya? Ya.
 
Shogmaster said:
:lol This is the most rediculously hilarious next gen gaming thread of all time. Beats the crap out of the that recent PGR3 thread.

"It ran at almost 5fps! THERE'S A CHANCE IT WILL RUN AT 30FPS!! THAT'S LIKE A REAL GAME!!!" :lol

Never have so many fanboys hung their hopes and dreams on a shady unoffical information. Chances that biased magazine like PSM got the true story from the real source when they don't state who the source was is beyond shady. Chance that a game will see 6X performance from 75% hardware to 100% hardware is beyond shady ("Optimization" is not a magic cure-all"). This thread: beyond hilarious.

If my code and assets on a 75% performance of the final hardware kit ran @ <5fps, it's time to "Optimize" the "game" by hacking down the assets to something more feasable. Bye bye Million PPS character models. Bye bye perfectly curved geometry. Bye bye CG demo made for PR BS.

I have no doubt the final game will feature bunch of soldier duders flying in on hovercrafts and then battling it out with bunch of other soldier duders on a war torn city vistas. There will be plenty of shooting and plenty of blowing up to be sure. Just don't expect it to look like that CG movie, ya? Ya.
Click to expand...


The more I think about it, the more sure I become that you're right. You're saying pretty much the same thing I've said all along, but the simple fact of the matter is, there is simply too much geometry on those models. It's just not doable. You may be able to get reasonably close in some cases, close enough that it's hard to tell a difference unless you look closesly, but those models are just too complex. Maybe in 2 generations we'll see that sort of geometry.
 
Shogmaster said:
I have no doubt the final game will feature bunch of soldier duders flying in on hovercrafts and then battling it out with bunch of other soldier duders on a war torn city vistas. There will be plenty of shooting and plenty of blowing up to be sure. Just don't expect it to look like that CG movie, ya? Ya.
Click to expand...

If people want to think it's going to look like that when they're playing it, why exactly does it bother you so much? You seem about ready to have a heart attack anytime someone mentions it could look like that.
 
Shogmaster said:
:lol This is the most rediculously hilarious next gen gaming thread of all time. Beats the crap out of the that recent PGR3 thread.

"It ran at almost 5fps! THERE'S A CHANCE IT WILL RUN AT 30FPS!! THAT'S LIKE A REAL GAME!!!" :lol

Never have so many fanboys hung their hopes and dreams on a shady unoffical information. Chances that biased magazine like PSM got the true story from the real source when they don't state who the source was is beyond shady. Chance that a game will see 6X performance from 75% hardware to 100% hardware is beyond shady ("Optimization" is not a magic cure-all"). This thread: beyond hilarious.

If my code and assets on a 75% performance of the final hardware kit ran @ <5fps, it's time to "Optimize" the "game" by hacking down the assets to something more feasable. Bye bye Million PPS character models. Bye bye perfectly curved geometry. Bye bye CG demo made for PR BS.

I have no doubt the final game will feature bunch of soldier duders flying in on hovercrafts and then battling it out with bunch of other soldier duders on a war torn city vistas. There will be plenty of shooting and plenty of blowing up to be sure. Just don't expect it to look like that CG movie, ya? Ya.
Click to expand...
When a game is balancing on a single thread on a CPU 75% its full speed and has a stock PC GPU in it, its a reasonable assumption. You hold high hopes for PDZ don't you? It will sure as hell take more than a 66% (or whatever arbitrary MS figure you'll swallow) increase to make that look good. Or how about GoW running at 10-15FPS (compared to a 60FPS UE3 for PS3)? Yeah. You can spin this anyway you want. Sony fans can hold hope because unlike MS with Raven, Sony delivered. But lets all face facts, the lines are drawn and peoples opinions are set. It will take TGS to change anything.
 
Shogmaster said:
:lol This is the most rediculously hilarious next gen gaming thread of all time. Beats the crap out of the that recent PGR3 thread.

"It ran at almost 5fps! THERE'S A CHANCE IT WILL RUN AT 30FPS!! THAT'S LIKE A REAL GAME!!!" :lol

Never have so many fanboys hung their hopes and dreams on a shady unoffical information. Chances that biased magazine like PSM got the true story from the real source when they don't state who the source was is beyond shady. Chance that a game will see 6X performance from 75% hardware to 100% hardware is beyond shady ("Optimization" is not a magic cure-all"). This thread: beyond hilarious.

If my code and assets on a 75% performance of the final hardware kit ran @ <5fps, it's time to "Optimize" the "game" by hacking down the assets to something more feasable. Bye bye Million PPS character models. Bye bye perfectly curved geometry. Bye bye CG demo made for PR BS.

I have no doubt the final game will feature bunch of soldier duders flying in on hovercrafts and then battling it out with bunch of other soldier duders on a war torn city vistas. There will be plenty of shooting and plenty of blowing up to be sure. Just don't expect it to look like that CG movie, ya? Ya.
Click to expand...

To paraphrase: wakka wakka, I AM SHOG! YOU HAVE SYPHILLIS!!1
 
Doom_Bringer said:
damn all these n00bs... where are they coming from? x_X
Click to expand...
Zaptruder said:
Where are you getting this information?
Click to expand...
Double D said:
lol this is hillarious. hey tempy, I work at guerrilla as well. Where have you been lately? Aren't you supposed to be crunching code and yet I find you bsing onine! god dammit man, get to work asap!
Click to expand...

You know what guys, this isn't an argument worth having. Let's look at it this way. I could be lying. Tempy could be lying. Or maybe, you could all be delusional and just want to believe the trailer is realtime. I know Tempy's still a "junior member" but I've known him for a long time ever since he was still working at what was Lost Boys Games. I don't even mind some people skeptical (Zaptruder), but some of you (Doom_Bringer, Double D) are being plain fucking rude and I would appreciate some decency here. No wonder most people who actually work on games can't be assed to post here with assholes like these around. :P
 
SolidSnakex said:
If people want to think it's going to look like that when they're playing it, why exactly does it bother you so much? You seem about ready to have a heart attack anytime someone mentions it could look like that.
Click to expand...

Having the knowledge and experience Shog does, it probably irritates him that anyone would be willing to accept this stuff. If I had that sort of in-depth knowledge it'd probably irritate me too. But that's just me
 
duckroll said:
You know what guys, this isn't an argument worth having. Let's look at it this way. I could be lying. Tempy could be lying. Or maybe, you could all be delusional and just want to believe the trailer is realtime. I know Tempy's still a "junior member" but I've known him for a long time ever since he was still working at what was Lost Boys Games. I don't even mind some people skeptical (Zaptruder), but some of you (Doom_Bringer, Double D) are being plain fucking rude and I would appreciate some decency here. No wonder most people who actually work on games can't be assed to post here with assholes like these around. :P
Click to expand...

Shit hobo. I asked you a question; you work on the game, in the press, what? You can't just come out of the blue and say stuff like you have it on higher authority without telling us what the basis is!

That or I missed it somewhere in the thread and need it repeated ;o
 
Zaptruder said:
Shit hobo. I asked you a question; you work on the game, in the press, what? You can't just come out of the blue and say stuff like you have it on higher authority without telling us what the basis is!

That or I missed it somewhere in the thread and need it repeated ;o
Click to expand...

*cough*

duckroll said it in that post. Duckroll said that he has known TEMPY (who works at Guerilla Games now, apparently) since he was at Lost Boys Games. This is pretty obviously where duckroll got the information about the CG trailer from.
 
Amir0x said:
Having the knowledge and experience Shog does, it probably irritates him that anyone would be willing to accept this stuff. If I had that sort of in-depth knowledge it'd probably irritate me too. But that's just me
Click to expand...

Does he? I know he's an artist that loves his Cintiq, and makes me envious as a result, but the only thing he's saying is that, they're too many polygons on screen, it can't possibly be real...

and I'm scratching my head wondering how he discerns the difference between a normal mapped model with some 50k polygons vs a pure 5 million polygon model. He cites things like 'too smooth of a shoulder pad', but then, you don't really have to increase the polygon that much in order to show a convincing large smooth edges. It's not like we can see the edge of protruding veins or even clothing detail, which would suggest a 2 million poly render.
 
Zaptruder said:
Does he? I know he's an artist that loves his Cintiq, and makes me envious as a result, but the only thing he's saying is that, they're too many polygons on screen, it can't possibly be real...

and I'm scratching my head wondering how he discerns the difference between a normal mapped model with some 50k polygons vs a pure 5 million polygon model. He cites things like 'too smooth of a shoulder pad', but then, you don't really have to increase the polygon that much in order to show a convincing large smooth edges. It's not like we can see the edge of protruding veins or even clothing detail, which would suggest a 2 million poly render.
Click to expand...

All I know is that Tempy works at Guerilla Games now, and he has confirmed for us that it was not real-time and was, in fact, CG. duckroll agrees with this, because I assume he got the information from Tempy. duckroll also vouches for Tempy's credibility, which is more than enough for me.
 
Amir0x said:
*cough*

duckroll said it in that post. Duckroll said that he has known TEMPY (who works at Guerilla Games now, apparently) since he was at Lost Boys Games. This is pretty obviously where duckroll got the information about the CG trailer from.
Click to expand...

From the way I intepreted it, what he said just backed up what Tempy said, which doesn't necessarily mean Duckroll works with tempy (I mean... I've known some of my current friends since elementary, and I can vouch for their authenticity in their various working fields, without actually working with them!).

Also, the only thing Tempy said was that CG is typically the last thing to be refined and finished up when working on a game.

But doesn't say anything about if there is a working engine (albeit a very slow working engine) capable of doing this stuff on the PS3 alpha dev kit, which is what the original post implied.

So what is it? stop stirring the flames here and give us a decent answer; we know that the trailer shown was rendered, there's no denying that; but was it done in a similar fashion to HS, using the ingame engine and then postprocessing that to deliver the trailer, or are those target assets, or even not intended for game use assets?
 
"No wonder most people who actually work on games can't be assed to post here with assholes like these around. :P"
Click to expand...

indeed.
If half of the posters knew half the people who posted here under various aliases, they wouldn't be half the cockmasters they are all the time.

But, it's all good - i think the arseholes have managed to drive most people away. Well done everyone.
 
Zaptruder said:
Shit hobo. I asked you a question; you work on the game, in the press, what? You can't just come out of the blue and say stuff like you have it on higher authority without telling us what the basis is!

That or I missed it somewhere in the thread and need it repeated ;o
Click to expand...

Sorry, I should have made it clear. I'm vouching for Tempy, and I'm just trying to put an end to this pointless arguement. Anyway I'm not mad at you, but for the other people who were really out of line imo. As I said, if you're skeptical, fine, but I couldn't stand those other two wiseasses being all rude about it.
 
Zaptruder said:
From the way I intepreted it, what he said just backed up what Tempy said, which doesn't necessarily mean Duckroll works with tempy (I mean... I've known some of my current friends since elementary, and I can vouch for their authenticity in their various working fields, without actually working with them!).
Click to expand...

No, I didn't say duckroll worked with tempy. I said duckroll knows Tempy, who works at Guerilla Games. That's all.

That's all I will go, because you're intent to be argumentative. So I hope they can explain better to you why they KNOW it's CG.
 
Ok, so Tempy works at guerilla games. He confirmed ages ago KZ3 was a artists rendition (and also hinted it was #3). Naturally the question now is will KZ3 live up to that and if not why did you guys lie? :)
 
Amir0x said:
No, I didn't say duckroll worked with tempy. I said duckroll knows Tempy, who works at Guerilla Games. That's all.

That's all I will go, because you're intent to be argumentative. So I hope they can explain better to you why they KNOW it's CG.
Click to expand...

Dude, everyone knows it's 'CG'. Just depends on the way you intepret it.

Is it CG using not intended for game use assets. Is it using target assets, but rendering scenes that's not target achievable (i.e. putting more soldiers and open areas than they're expecting for the real game). Is it like HS, a target render, but using post processing to bring things up to speed?

I understand the implication is that the entire thing is just a CG trailer, like an intro, but that kinda flies in the face of what has already been said about the game by bigwigs.

As for duckroll, vouching is one thing, but his original post was a declarative statement, as if he was confirming those things himself.

But now it's a bit clearer, it seems as if the credibility of that statement derives from Tempy, so it's only really the verification of one poster, rather than verfication from two independent sources.
 
Zaptruder said:
As for duckroll, vouching is one thing, but his original post was a declarative statement, as if he was confirming those things himself.

But now it's a bit clearer, it seems as if the credibility of that statement derives from Tempy, so it's only really the verification of one poster, rather than verfication from two independent sources.
Click to expand...

When I posted, I did not know if Tempy felt any urge to post on his own. If he didn't want to say anything about it, I'm sure you can understand why. The fact that he did eventually post does not take away from the fact of the situation. This is a really dumb debate that's been going on and on in GAF it's getting really well... stupid. :\
 
Amir0x said:
Having the knowledge and experience Shog does, it probably irritates him that anyone would be willing to accept this stuff. If I had that sort of in-depth knowledge it'd probably irritate me too. But that's just me
Click to expand...

I think most are willing to give Sony the benefit of a doubt after the PS2 demos. Many said those weren't possible and they've proven that they were. Anyway, I still think that Motor Storm demo was more impressive overall.
 
SolidSnakex said:
I think most are willing to give Sony the benefit of a doubt after the PS2 demos. Many said those weren't possible and they've proven that they were. Anyway, I still think that Motor Storm demo was more impressive overall.
Click to expand...

I agree that Motor Storm was more impressive. And frankly, I don't know quite enough to claim outright whether something in KZ3 area will be possible by the end of next gen. I certainly hope so. I'm not calling Sony a liar, though. I just think it's video to get people hyped up, and it did that.
 
If anything, it's not the geometry that shows it is pre-rendered, it's the lighting. That type of lighting simulation can't be done in real time.


If it can, my mind will explode in bliss.

But that won't happen.

Why/what are we arguing?
 
SolidSnakex said:
I think most are willing to give Sony the benefit of a doubt after the PS2 demos. Many said those weren't possible and they've proven that they were. Anyway, I still think that Motor Storm demo was more impressive overall.
Click to expand...

You do realize that Motor Storm was also CG, right? And stop calling them "demos"...nobody was playing them. :P
 
Zaptruder said:
To paraphrase: wakka wakka, I AM SHOG! YOU HAVE SYPHILLIS!!1
Click to expand...

I prefer to wish chronic Gonorrhea upon everyone instead of Syphillis, but that's just my personal preference. ;)

Anyways, carry on my friend, carry on. :D



Gek54 said:
Demo is short for demonstration...incase you forgot.
Click to expand...

So everytime I play Finding Nemo on my DVD player, I'm demoing that SOB? I HAD NO IDEA!!1! :lol

Hold on a tic, I'm gonna go "demo" a Nao Oikawa mpeg. Be back in a few. :D
 
Shogmaster said:
So everytime I play Finding Nemo on my DVD player, I'm demoing that SOB? I HAD NO IDEA!!1! :lol

Hold on a tic, I'm gonna go "demo" a Nao Oikawa mpeg. Be back in a few. :D
Click to expand...

In the home theater community, showing off well encoded DVDs on your system is referred to as 'demoing' so yes you would be demoing Finding Nemo
 
Shoggy, you are smarter than that.

but incase you arn't:

dem·on·stra·tion Audio pronunciation of "demonstration" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dmn-strshn)
n.

1. The act of showing or making evident.
2. An illustration or explanation, as of a theory or product, by exemplification or practical application.
 
monkeymagic said:
In the home theater community, showing off well encoded DVDs on your system is referred to as 'demoing' so yes you would be demoing Finding Nemo
Click to expand...

Ah... Then perhaps Sony did demo the PS3 with KZ video afterall. Unfortunately, it was just Blu-Ray video playback. :lol
 
Klee:-
Again....the PS3 game is Killzone THREE


Killzone 2 is going to be a PS2 game...
Click to expand...

Is Guerilla doing KZ2 on PS2?

Killzone itself was delayed; if Guerilla are working on Killzone 2 for PS2, does anyone really expect to see Killzone 3 for PS3 in the next few years? :lol
 
Shogmaster said:
Your cheap Jedi mind tricks have no effect on me young Padawan.
Click to expand...

Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa...




is one messy bitch in bed.
 
SolidSnakex said:
No, who was expecting it to come out quickly?
Click to expand...

Which is the shear brilliance of Sony PR hype machine. By the time the game actually comes out, no one will remember nor care about the 2005 E3 video "demo", but for the next 2~3 years, the PS3 fanboys can continue to fantasize about the prospects of that video playing realtime on their machines.

Those guys should offer masters degree program on this shit.




Zaptruder said:
Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa... Nao... Oikawa...




is one messy bitch in bed.
Click to expand...

No kidding huh? *Salutes Nao Oikawa and all her messy talents*
 
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